Crown

Okay, "other sports cars" might be a stretch for Tesla, but did anyone notice the last thread was under Porsche

Interesting if it's really $25k

https://electrek.co/2020/09/22/tesla-electric-car-cheap/

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Tesla Model S Plaid Announced - 200 MPH, 520-Mile Range, $139K

Model S Plaid

tri-motor all-wheel-drive

Range: 520 miles(837Km)

0-60mph: under 2 seconds

1/4 mile: under 9 seconds

top speed: 200 mph

Laguna Seca: 1:30.30 | Lucid Air: 1:33.00

"Musk said it will set records at Nürburgring"

Price: $139,000

Late 2021

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBjp91zqnn8

Tire : michelin sport cup 2 with specific gum that will be available when car will be released Very similar to Cup 2 R tire

Seat: bucket seat for my security only  

Interesting camera angle. We barely see the interior.

------------------------------

Brooks (DragTimes) take on the Model S plaid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQDgmso76as

"Musk said it will set records at Nürburgring"

You can't make this stuff up 

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Grant:

Interesting if it's really $25k

https://electrek.co/2020/09/22/tesla-electric-car-cheap/

Wasn't the Model 3 supposed to be the cash cow of Tesla

Model S
Model 3
Model X
Model Y

Cybertruck
ATV
Roadster
Semi

S3XY CARS 

And now they have the "cheap electric car". So it makes it 4 project cars and 1 ATV.

Or 6, if we count the Model S Plaid that doesn't exist yet.

The old test mule at the Ring with the Plaid stuff is a completely stripped car. Wouldn't be a surprise to see the other car that ran at the track is also a completely stripped one. 

They do things very differently than say Porsche, who send a fully loaded and even heavier than production Panamera turbo S to the Ring to set the record time.

Here we go again...

The CEO commented in the announcement:

Tesla will make a compelling $25,000 electric vehicle that is also fully autonomous.

Topspeed:

Tesla Model S Plaid Announced - 200 MPH, 520-Mile Range, $139K

Model S Plaid

tri-motor all-wheel-drive

Range: 520 miles(837Km)

0-60mph: under 2 seconds

1/4 mile: under 9 seconds

top speed: 200 mph

Laguna Seca: 1:30.30 | Lucid Air: 1:33.00

"Musk said it will set records at Nürburgring"

Price: $139,000

Late 2021 

Faster than McLaren P1 at Laguna:

https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/laguna-seca-post-1988

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

https://www.motor1.com/news/445267/rolls-royce-electric-vehicle-coming/

So Rolls Royce is planning a EV, wonder if the Tesla fans will think it's their competitor too like the Taycan

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/09/23/volkswagen-id4-electric-gap/

Now this is a handsome EV crossover that's also priced right.

Battery day didn't provide a boost to TSLA, they actually lost $50bil in market cap because of it.

Some innovative ideas was announced, but having the batteries being structural? What happens in an accident and needing repairs? Or the car can't be repaired and have to be scraped? Imagine insurance companies balking.

Then there is the bigger battery size. I still remember not long agin Elon was dissing the pouch cell approach of LG Chem, saying his small cells are an advantage, guess he doesn't have a choice but to go bigger anyways.

$25k car coming in 3 years. Hmm. That $25k now after inflation in the future will be more like 30-35k. IF they can keep that 3 year timeline, which for all intents and purposes they can't. They have yet to keep one single timeline target...............

Whoopsy:

Battery day didn't provide a boost to TSLA, they actually lost $50bil in market cap because of it.

Some innovative ideas was announced, but having the batteries being structural? What happens in an accident and needing repairs? Or the car can't be repaired and have to be scraped? Imagine insurance companies balking.

Then there is the bigger battery size. I still remember not long agin Elon was dissing the pouch cell approach of LG Chem, saying his small cells are an advantage, guess he doesn't have a choice but to go bigger anyways.

$25k car coming in 3 years. Hmm. That $25k now after inflation in the future will be more like 30-35k. IF they can keep that 3 year timeline, which for all intents and purposes they can't. They have yet to keep one single timeline target...............

These drops have happened after each announcement. It would be too easy to make money that way. They still don’t hurt for investors or customers. They need workers and engineers. 

There is a lot more to that new battery than form factor.  No tab. No liquid. No nasty process to make it. No cobalt!! He is just letting a little of what the benefits will be known.  As far as insurance - you will not find a cheaper car to insure  insurance companies have lowered rates on Tesla cars long ago.  Ridiculously cheap - don’t expect that to change. 

I think he has done okay with promises and timelines.  Some were expecting the million mile battery which he avoided. Like not showing the new model S design (it has to be a new chassis for that power level) he needs to manage current inventory. Probably even more than investors. Tech nerds like me know what he is up and it is pretty clever. 
 

Once he focuses on fit and finish including the new paint process they are preparing in Berlin talk of paying more for inferior quality will sound even stranger than paying more for less tech and performance. 

Leawood911:

Whoopsy:

Battery day didn't provide a boost to TSLA, they actually lost $50bil in market cap because of it.

Some innovative ideas was announced, but having the batteries being structural? What happens in an accident and needing repairs? Or the car can't be repaired and have to be scraped? Imagine insurance companies balking.

Then there is the bigger battery size. I still remember not long agin Elon was dissing the pouch cell approach of LG Chem, saying his small cells are an advantage, guess he doesn't have a choice but to go bigger anyways.

$25k car coming in 3 years. Hmm. That $25k now after inflation in the future will be more like 30-35k. IF they can keep that 3 year timeline, which for all intents and purposes they can't. They have yet to keep one single timeline target...............

These drops have happened after each announcement. It would be too easy to make money that way. They still don’t hurt for investors or customers. They need workers and engineers. 

There is a lot more to that new battery than form factor.  No tab. No liquid. No nasty process to make it. No cobalt!! He is just letting a little of what the benefits will be known.  As far as insurance - you will not find a cheaper car to insure  insurance companies have lowered rates on Tesla cars long ago.  Ridiculously cheap - don’t expect that to change. 

I think he has done okay with promises and timelines.  Some were expecting the million mile battery which he avoided. Like not showing the new model S design (it has to be a new chassis for that power level) he needs to manage current inventory. Probably even more than investors. Tech nerds like me know what he is up and it is pretty clever. 
 

Once he focuses on fit and finish including the new paint process they are preparing in Berlin talk of paying more for inferior quality will sound even stranger than paying more for less tech and performance. 

Trying saying that when the new structural battery Tesla gets into an accident and cannot be fix and has to be scrapped. Insurance companies aren't gonna like that and will adjust premiums accordingly. This is a very valid point that need explaining. He is also using structural adhesive to bind the batteries to the body structure, so in the event that the car can be repairs, it's going to be a hassle. 

Can you for once open your eyes and see things outside of your Tesla bubble? Can you be objective at all when viewing EVs? Tesla's press releases said and promised quite a few things, but there are more questions than answers and those needed to be clarified. 

BTW Leawood, here is an objective piece from CNBC. Everyone knows the hinderance for EV adoption is infrastructure.  And power companies already made predictions that the consumption will increase by 38% nationally by 2050. 

EVs right now are good enough, the infrastructure is what needed to catch up. It's what I have been saying and I am already a multiple EV owner. Your own personal experience do not match up with the real world for everyday customers. 

Battery day was such a mess... Elon looked really nervous and unprepared 😕

It's hard to believe they're going to deliver on these great ideas when they can't even put together a decent presentation.

Leawood911:

Whoopsy:

Leawood911:

Maybe you guys should read what I write. I’m pretty consistent. It is a good drivers aid. The best. You are better off with it than without it. I would never trust it. In the future it will be fine, eventually. 
Cars that don’t have this capability will not sell at some point. 
What is the fascinating aspect with putting words in my mouth or reading my mind?  Maybe you guys should just go drive one. Have I mentioned this?  
Maybe I should post articles about ICE cars crashing due to idiot drivers but that would be tooooo many to list. 

I will say this - after all the cars I have owned the Model3 is by far and away the most fun to drive on the road (not track) and the safest. Period. Not even close. 

You are consistent. But you only talk about how YOU use it. You do not represent the vast majority. Far from it, you are the exception, not the norm.

The majority out there do NOT drive like you or use the systems like you do.

The question is how would you use it?  Do you make buying decisions for others or for yourself?  If you can trust yourself then why care about the other idiots. They are wrecking all types of cars. Thousands of them. Each would be safer with more active safety, even the idiots. 
If we stopped progress due to fear someone would misuse it then we might as well start walking. 
 

So let’s come up with a better name than autopilot. The name is the biggest objection I have heard. Not really an issue for owners with online owners manuals and warnings each time they turn in the system. 

Leawood, you might have seen that China is taking a very close look at Tesla’s “autopilot” technology...  

Video Link: https://m.weibo.cn/detail/4551307186670198#&video

...it is time to wake up and smell the coffee... 

...this technology is clearly not safe (potentially deadly) for pedestrians! 

Leawood, with all due respect, watch the video and think very carefully about whether this Tesla technology is safe!?! 

You do realize this is a repost. There are also lots of similar videos with Tesla stopping just fine for pedestrians. It stops better for them than my Turbo which mows them down. 
I thought these posts were not directed at me??  Lol. 
btw - don’t you think more serious testing than this went into developing these systems by all car makers?  Is it possible to trick such a system to make this video?  Hmmm. I think I won’t sell my car just yet.  Lol. 
 

do give a Tesla a drive and see what you think. Better than a video trying to scare you. 

Agent991:

Battery day was such a mess... Elon looked really nervous and unprepared 😕

It's hard to believe they're going to deliver on these great ideas when they can't even put together a decent presentation.

Elon always looks like that. He is a bit awkward. The pandemic did not help the gathering credit him for supplying a shit load of car to sit in (does he need to burn them now?) 

Whoopsy:

Leawood911:

Whoopsy:

Battery day didn't provide a boost to TSLA, they actually lost $50bil in market cap because of it.

Some innovative ideas was announced, but having the batteries being structural? What happens in an accident and needing repairs? Or the car can't be repaired and have to be scraped? Imagine insurance companies balking.

Then there is the bigger battery size. I still remember not long agin Elon was dissing the pouch cell approach of LG Chem, saying his small cells are an advantage, guess he doesn't have a choice but to go bigger anyways.

$25k car coming in 3 years. Hmm. That $25k now after inflation in the future will be more like 30-35k. IF they can keep that 3 year timeline, which for all intents and purposes they can't. They have yet to keep one single timeline target...............

These drops have happened after each announcement. It would be too easy to make money that way. They still don’t hurt for investors or customers. They need workers and engineers. 

There is a lot more to that new battery than form factor.  No tab. No liquid. No nasty process to make it. No cobalt!! He is just letting a little of what the benefits will be known.  As far as insurance - you will not find a cheaper car to insure  insurance companies have lowered rates on Tesla cars long ago.  Ridiculously cheap - don’t expect that to change. 

I think he has done okay with promises and timelines.  Some were expecting the million mile battery which he avoided. Like not showing the new model S design (it has to be a new chassis for that power level) he needs to manage current inventory. Probably even more than investors. Tech nerds like me know what he is up and it is pretty clever. 
 

Once he focuses on fit and finish including the new paint process they are preparing in Berlin talk of paying more for inferior quality will sound even stranger than paying more for less tech and performance. 

 

Trying saying that when the new structural battery Tesla gets into an accident and cannot be fix and has to be scrapped. Insurance companies aren't gonna like that and will adjust premiums accordingly. This is a very valid point that need explaining. He is also using structural adhesive to bind the batteries to the body structure, so in the event that the car can be repairs, it's going to be a hassle. 

Can you for once open your eyes and see things outside of your Tesla bubble? Can you be objective at all when viewing EVs? Tesla's press releases said and promised quite a few things, but there are more questions than answers and those needed to be clarified. 

 

First of all your insurance costs are pure speculation. The actual price insurance companies charge for Teslas are in fact very very low.  Even with where the batteries are now. Because the get into remarkable few accidents. I think we have witnessed each one here on Rennteam. Why would the price go up so much to insure it?  Pretty certain that an incident today would still cause a lot of damage to the batteries.  How is that 918 insurance, oh I forgot. But I get your concern. 
Anyway, it is a great example of the straws you desperately cling to in order to avoid cognitive dissonance. I get that. If one of us is in a bubble I might argue it is the one arguing for less speed and functionality in favor of higher price. That is what a real bubble looks like.  I am merely stating facts which make sense and can be understood by people making a living. You are in a luxury purse world trying to justify the excessive spending while I am making the case for a solid daily driver that is cheap.  Saying I’m the one in the bubble is perhaps something for the others to judge. 
 

In terms of unanswered questions - these is still a need for him to sell current cars.  Be glad because the other makers also still need to sell cars.  Do you see any other makers on the horizon with similar tech advances?  

And my eyes are open, which is how I found Tesla. No one had to rub my nose in it. Some with noses full of it still don’t smell the future.  I’m afraid clarifying questions for you is not Elon’s prime mission. And, I seriously doubt you would be receptive. That the word for it. Receptive.  

Full coverage insurance annually for my Model3 is $450. Lol. $1000 deductible. 

Leawood911:

You do realize this is a repost. There are also lots of similar videos with Tesla stopping just fine for pedestrians. It stops better for them than my Turbo which mows them down. 
I thought these posts were not directed at me??  Lol. 
btw - don’t you think more serious testing than this went into developing these systems by all car makers?  Is it possible to trick such a system to make this video?  Hmmm. I think I won’t sell my car just yet.  Lol. 
 

do give a Tesla a drive and see what you think. Better than a video trying to scare you. 

Leawood, you seriously need to stop trusting your Tesla to do the driving for you! 

Do you still believe that Tesla makes you a better driver when you can’t see in the fog? 

I can tell you that in my experience Tesla is “dull as dishwater” compared to driving a Porsche! 

What will you be replacing your Tesla Model 3 with when the laptop batteries are all dead?  

Elon Musk Today

Lots of funny EM quotes/promises

Boxster Coupe GTS:

Leawood911:

You do realize this is a repost. There are also lots of similar videos with Tesla stopping just fine for pedestrians. It stops better for them than my Turbo which mows them down. 
I thought these posts were not directed at me??  Lol. 
btw - don’t you think more serious testing than this went into developing these systems by all car makers?  Is it possible to trick such a system to make this video?  Hmmm. I think I won’t sell my car just yet.  Lol. 
 

do give a Tesla a drive and see what you think. Better than a video trying to scare you. 

Leawood, you seriously need to stop trusting your Tesla to do the driving for you! 
   It is like you don’t read what I type.  I don’t trust it but it is a wonderful drivers aid.  Follow the directions in the owners manual and you not have any problems.  In no way is any other car safer.  Look at accident and injury stats.  Not even close.  Show me the numbers indicating there is any car even close to safety stats per mile driven  

 

Do you still believe that Tesla makes you a better driver when you can’t see in the fog? 
 

Precisely  - when on i70 in a blinding morning fog the Tesla radar would stop for an obstacle long before I could even see it.  Have you ever been forced to drive in the fog on a highway?  I really don’t understand your lack of understanding  

I can tell you that in my experience Tesla is “dull as dishwater” compared to driving a Porsche! 
Okay  - I get that  .  My Turbo is more of an event to drive .  The Tesla replaced my Azera and I have found it to be a spectacular daily driver - four door sedan .  Performance wise the turbo can’t touch it on the street.  I can appreciate how impressive an a achievement that is.  Since I own a Turbo and am not just making fun of someone else’s car that I don’t know anything about you may assume I am serious  

What will you be replacing your Tesla Model 3 with when the laptop batteries are all dead?  
 

I first leased a model3 and returned it within the seven day return policy because I decided to buy it instead.  I don’t see any trade or sale of it in the future.  In 20 years or so when the batteries degrade I will replace them for less than my last Turbo coolant leak.  Total coolant leak expense for my turbo over five years is now over $10k.  That’s not even going to a Porsche dealer.  
Batteries is where it is at. Tesla is now far in the lead.  Do you think the other automakers are joking about Tesla batteries today?  
Thank you for your contribution to this time capsule of awesome EV concerns.  

 

Can't we rename this thread the Leawood thread and be done with it?

Leawood911:

Whoopsy:

Leawood911:

Whoopsy:

Battery day didn't provide a boost to TSLA, they actually lost $50bil in market cap because of it.

Some innovative ideas was announced, but having the batteries being structural? What happens in an accident and needing repairs? Or the car can't be repaired and have to be scraped? Imagine insurance companies balking.

Then there is the bigger battery size. I still remember not long agin Elon was dissing the pouch cell approach of LG Chem, saying his small cells are an advantage, guess he doesn't have a choice but to go bigger anyways.

$25k car coming in 3 years. Hmm. That $25k now after inflation in the future will be more like 30-35k. IF they can keep that 3 year timeline, which for all intents and purposes they can't. They have yet to keep one single timeline target...............

These drops have happened after each announcement. It would be too easy to make money that way. They still don’t hurt for investors or customers. They need workers and engineers. 

There is a lot more to that new battery than form factor.  No tab. No liquid. No nasty process to make it. No cobalt!! He is just letting a little of what the benefits will be known.  As far as insurance - you will not find a cheaper car to insure  insurance companies have lowered rates on Tesla cars long ago.  Ridiculously cheap - don’t expect that to change. 

I think he has done okay with promises and timelines.  Some were expecting the million mile battery which he avoided. Like not showing the new model S design (it has to be a new chassis for that power level) he needs to manage current inventory. Probably even more than investors. Tech nerds like me know what he is up and it is pretty clever. 
 

Once he focuses on fit and finish including the new paint process they are preparing in Berlin talk of paying more for inferior quality will sound even stranger than paying more for less tech and performance. 

 

Trying saying that when the new structural battery Tesla gets into an accident and cannot be fix and has to be scrapped. Insurance companies aren't gonna like that and will adjust premiums accordingly. This is a very valid point that need explaining. He is also using structural adhesive to bind the batteries to the body structure, so in the event that the car can be repairs, it's going to be a hassle. 

Can you for once open your eyes and see things outside of your Tesla bubble? Can you be objective at all when viewing EVs? Tesla's press releases said and promised quite a few things, but there are more questions than answers and those needed to be clarified. 

 

First of all your insurance costs are pure speculation. The actual price insurance companies charge for Teslas are in fact very very low.  Even with where the batteries are now. Because the get into remarkable few accidents. I think we have witnessed each one here on Rennteam. Why would the price go up so much to insure it?  Pretty certain that an incident today would still cause a lot of damage to the batteries.  How is that 918 insurance, oh I forgot. But I get your concern. 
Anyway, it is a great example of the straws you desperately cling to in order to avoid cognitive dissonance. I get that. If one of us is in a bubble I might argue it is the one arguing for less speed and functionality in favor of higher price. That is what a real bubble looks like.  I am merely stating facts which make sense and can be understood by people making a living. You are in a luxury purse world trying to justify the excessive spending while I am making the case for a solid daily driver that is cheap.  Saying I’m the one in the bubble is perhaps something for the others to judge. 
 

In terms of unanswered questions - these is still a need for him to sell current cars.  Be glad because the other makers also still need to sell cars.  Do you see any other makers on the horizon with similar tech advances?  

And my eyes are open, which is how I found Tesla. No one had to rub my nose in it. Some with noses full of it still don’t smell the future.  I’m afraid clarifying questions for you is not Elon’s prime mission. And, I seriously doubt you would be receptive. That the word for it. Receptive.  

Full coverage insurance annually for my Model3 is $450. Lol. $1000 deductible. 

Actually you are a bit wrong in that regards. It all depends on where you live. Here where I am, Tesla Mode S/X are grouped together with high powered sports cars like 911 turbos Astons, AMG 55s 65s, etc. A completely separate rate group that demands 1% of the MSRP as the collision and comprehension deductible. Full coverage on a full discount driver runs between $5000-$7000 a year. 

A Model 3 doesn't quite qualify for that category but for a full discount driver it will still run around $3000. For comparison, my Taycan 4S actually cost me only $2500. The e-Tron $2700 which is same as my Honda pickup. 

Ease of repair plays a big role on insurance cost. Imagine how hard it is to repair a car with structural battery.

A large battery pack contained in a cast aluminum structural member is not sound engineering from a collusion repair standpoint.  This remains a critical differentiation among Tesla and the established automakers.  The established automakers have decades of experience building in collusion repairability into the products.  This is why Tesla insurance costs are relatively high and why Musk entered the insurance business.  

Whoopsy:

Leawood911:

Whoopsy:

Leawood911:

Whoopsy:

Battery day didn't provide a boost to TSLA, they actually lost $50bil in market cap because of it.

Some innovative ideas was announced, but having the batteries being structural? What happens in an accident and needing repairs? Or the car can't be repaired and have to be scraped? Imagine insurance companies balking.

Then there is the bigger battery size. I still remember not long agin Elon was dissing the pouch cell approach of LG Chem, saying his small cells are an advantage, guess he doesn't have a choice but to go bigger anyways.

$25k car coming in 3 years. Hmm. That $25k now after inflation in the future will be more like 30-35k. IF they can keep that 3 year timeline, which for all intents and purposes they can't. They have yet to keep one single timeline target...............

These drops have happened after each announcement. It would be too easy to make money that way. They still don’t hurt for investors or customers. They need workers and engineers. 

There is a lot more to that new battery than form factor.  No tab. No liquid. No nasty process to make it. No cobalt!! He is just letting a little of what the benefits will be known.  As far as insurance - you will not find a cheaper car to insure  insurance companies have lowered rates on Tesla cars long ago.  Ridiculously cheap - don’t expect that to change. 

I think he has done okay with promises and timelines.  Some were expecting the million mile battery which he avoided. Like not showing the new model S design (it has to be a new chassis for that power level) he needs to manage current inventory. Probably even more than investors. Tech nerds like me know what he is up and it is pretty clever. 
 

Once he focuses on fit and finish including the new paint process they are preparing in Berlin talk of paying more for inferior quality will sound even stranger than paying more for less tech and performance. 

 

Trying saying that when the new structural battery Tesla gets into an accident and cannot be fix and has to be scrapped. Insurance companies aren't gonna like that and will adjust premiums accordingly. This is a very valid point that need explaining. He is also using structural adhesive to bind the batteries to the body structure, so in the event that the car can be repairs, it's going to be a hassle. 

Can you for once open your eyes and see things outside of your Tesla bubble? Can you be objective at all when viewing EVs? Tesla's press releases said and promised quite a few things, but there are more questions than answers and those needed to be clarified. 

 

First of all your insurance costs are pure speculation. The actual price insurance companies charge for Teslas are in fact very very low.  Even with where the batteries are now. Because the get into remarkable few accidents. I think we have witnessed each one here on Rennteam. Why would the price go up so much to insure it?  Pretty certain that an incident today would still cause a lot of damage to the batteries.  How is that 918 insurance, oh I forgot. But I get your concern. 
Anyway, it is a great example of the straws you desperately cling to in order to avoid cognitive dissonance. I get that. If one of us is in a bubble I might argue it is the one arguing for less speed and functionality in favor of higher price. That is what a real bubble looks like.  I am merely stating facts which make sense and can be understood by people making a living. You are in a luxury purse world trying to justify the excessive spending while I am making the case for a solid daily driver that is cheap.  Saying I’m the one in the bubble is perhaps something for the others to judge. 
 

In terms of unanswered questions - these is still a need for him to sell current cars.  Be glad because the other makers also still need to sell cars.  Do you see any other makers on the horizon with similar tech advances?  

And my eyes are open, which is how I found Tesla. No one had to rub my nose in it. Some with noses full of it still don’t smell the future.  I’m afraid clarifying questions for you is not Elon’s prime mission. And, I seriously doubt you would be receptive. That the word for it. Receptive.  

Full coverage insurance annually for my Model3 is $450. Lol. $1000 deductible. 

 

Actually you are a bit wrong in that regards. It all depends on where you live. Here where I am, Tesla Mode S/X are grouped together with high powered sports cars like 911 turbos Astons, AMG 55s 65s, etc. A completely separate rate group that demands 1% of the MSRP as the collision and comprehension deductible. Full coverage on a full discount driver runs between $5000-$7000 a year. 

A Model 3 doesn't quite qualify for that category but for a full discount driver it will still run around $3000. For comparison, my Taycan 4S actually cost me only $2500. The e-Tron $2700 which is same as my Honda pickup. 

Ease of repair plays a big role on insurance cost. Imagine how hard it is to repair a car with structural battery.

Honestly, comparing your insurance rates vs mine ease of repair is minor to plain old getting screwed. Let me guess - it is a government plan.  So please give me a break about the battery structure causing high rates. How do you explain my low rates?  The low rates represent truth and even profit. Your rates are just punishment and tax of another name. You get that - right. Please. 

CGX car nut:

A large battery pack contained in a cast aluminum structural member is not sound engineering from a collusion repair standpoint.  This remains a critical differentiation among Tesla and the established automakers.  The established automakers have decades of experience building in collusion repairability into the products.  This is why Tesla insurance costs are relatively high and why Musk entered the insurance business.  

And how exactly do you explain my progressive policy at $450 per year?  40% less than a much older, slower and less expensive Azera?  
Tesla got into insurance because of high rates in California which they could blow out of the water because they can monitor their drivers like crazy. 
If they wanted to they could offer really low rates - based on when and where you drive. Etc. the disruptions are endless. 
 Heck, price the insurance. I did prior to purchase and was very surprised given the performance and value of the car. 
Also keep in mind, they need to be in a crash in order to need crash repair. They simply do not have near the accidents. Numbers don’t lie. Look them up.  The amount of wrong information is natural given the panic in the auto industry. I find it funny. 

Leawood911:

Boxster Coupe GTS:

Do you still believe that Tesla makes you a better driver when you can’t see in the fog? 

Precisely  - when on i70 in a blinding morning fog the Tesla radar would stop for an obstacle long before I could even see it.  Have you ever been forced to drive in the fog on a highway?  I really don’t understand your lack of understanding

So you confidently believe your Tesla Model 3 can drive safely in fog, when you acknowledge visibility is impaired...

When you are driving in fog, please keep in mind that Tesla has cameras and radar, but not Lidar...

If you believe the Tesla radar will save you from every possible collision, why does it not stop for a stationary fire-truck? 

...Leawood, do you honestly understand the limitations of the technology?  

I know not to trust it but it is great in addition to my turbo vision. Second only to RC’s visual abilities. 
so to summarize. It is better to have the radar in the fog than to not have it. It does not cost extra.