Crown

Gnil:

spudgun:

I would hesitate to sell my 997.2 too, I appreciate the car more and more the older it gets. In fact: I just had it overhauled, from new dampers to every rubber replaced, so I can enjoy it in years to come. It is still a special car to drive.

Will pray to the P1731 gods though.

Thanks for you help . It was actually one of the unique alternative possible .

Long live the 997 

I just did what you did on my 964 . 

Keep us posted on the repair 

--

997.2 4S / BMW X5 40e / Donkervoort GT 

Interesting thread. My vote definitely goes to the zf  replacement pdk box. My 997s went 200k miles not problems so I doubt once the pdk is fixed he will have other giant expenses and instead tons of remaining fun.  My old 997 turbo is now at 112000 miles and feel like it is just broken in.  Hauled ass down to Austin for the GP and I guarantee you it does not look or feel ancient when doing so.  The real difference between a 991 and 997 or 992 for that matter is not that obvious to the average person or even a Porsche owner.  I’m taking in terms of the ability to utilize fully the additional performance on the street. The cost certainly is.  
wonder though if there is a manual conversion for the pdk cars?  
This replacement stuff all started with the 996 engines. No deposits just core and replace. The PDK is just following that pattern.  It makes for $20k 911 cars I’m afraid.  All is looking good for my old manual mezger for now other than the Other car in the garage smoking it silently

Or, like Immanuel Kant once famously wrote in his book Kritik der reinen Vernunft: ‘a car doesn’t depreciate if you don’t sell it.’ 

997.2 4S / BMW X5 40e / Donkervoort GT 

Gnil,

make sure you get the replacement gearbox from ZF with I220 (locking differential) because the normal ones are I219 (open diff).

Since your car has -20mm SPASM this was included in the spec and it is in your car's VIN. But if you are ordering outside the Porsche service system, specify this to ensure you get it.

Bonne chance!

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

spudgun:

Or, like Immanuel Kant once famously wrote in his book Kritik der reinen Vernunft: ‘a car doesn’t depreciate if you don’t sell it.’ 

I like this quote

But, at the time of Kant there were no cars, as we know them. Perhaps, an excellent paraphrase.

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

This thread is  very interesting ,  lots of good advice and interesting opinions 

Reginos : I will check this out as It has not come up when ordering . The gearbox should be here within 10 days . They said  it will have all the latest upgrades . 2 years warrantee .

Keeping a car for a longer time does involve emotions linked with it . Personal life memories and thus adds a lay to what would only be a machine otherwise . 

RC said in another thread that he sticks to one wife as after two years with a new bimbette it gets to the same point . It is also way cheeper .  Just like with a car 

This car was at the time my only Porsche . I used it on many tracks , improved my skills in it ,  did many long distance trips . Used it with the kids sitting at the back when they were smaller . Transported building material in it . Went skiing with it . And has been my daily transportation for the last 10 years . Each time I sit in it , I am linked to all this , even without realizing it . I know the car by heart . It does fill all my daily transportation needs .

A new car ? Would be nice a couple of month to enjoy the novelty but then very quickly I would be back to square one , minus the memories , minus the feel of my 997 - 20 mm . And probably I would get very bored quickly in a car too refined . 

I would not know what to get as a replacement .  

New :

the Alpine is tempting , but it is no Porsche .

An M2 ? Would need to get ok with the fact that over here it is a car mainly driven by young guy coming from more eastern countries .

A 992 ? No way as a replacement of my 997 . If I would have never owned a 911 maybe  . Or  maybe If I would not have an RS on the side and it would need to be a GTS , which does not exist for the moment .

A small hatch back ? Ford Escort RS ? Golf GTI ? Audi A3 RS ?   I like them but don't really want any of them 

A Mustang ? maybe , but in winter would be probably not great and it is a big car for our small parking place in the city 

Uded :

Aston Vantage V12 manual would be very, very  tempting , but I would loose the back seats and be a bit  more '' in your face'' in some places . The Carrera does not draw any attention anywhere . 

 C63 AMG ?  An option , but in winter would be quite less good then the 911 

991 GTS : Yes, if I have to give up the 997 . I would want it in manual but not 100% sure that boxe is nice . 

BMW 1M ? 

Or find a nice 997 GTS in manual 

--

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

Curious as to why you haven’t considered used/new manual shift Boxster or Cayman. They probably would ran circles around your 997.

Having everything is nice, but it's even nicer to make sure everything you've got is actually worth having.

My 997 goes pretty well . I took it  to Mugelo in september , as my RS was broken down ( also sensors  ) and I did have some interesting challenges with a Boxster 718 . 

I am not a cabriolet guy, so that rules out the Boxster . The Cayman ... only the GT4 , but then it would not be too practical as a DD ( quite low and not sure I want the attention from the wing each time I drive to the bakery to get my croissants or to the do-it-yourself to buy some paint , or fetching my kids from basketball or from the skate park .

Does it make your life better and happier because you change car every 12 or 18 month ?

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

Gnil:

My 997 goes pretty well . I took it  to Mugelo in september , as my RS was broken down ( also sensors  ) and I did have some interesting challenges with a Boxster 718 . 

I am not a cabriolet guy, so that rules out the Boxster . The Cayman ... only the GT4 , but then it would not be too practical as a DD ( quite low and not sure I want the attention from the wing each time I drive to the bakery to get my croissants or to the do-it-yourself to buy some paint , or fetching my kids from basketball or from the skate park .

Does it make your life better and happier because you change car every 12 or 18 month ?

The automobile becomes just as disposal as a cup of Starbucks.  One would rather have a longer term relationship with my automobiles to learn the nuisances of their abilities and mine.

nberry:

Gnil:

nberry:

 

All car manufacturer’s build in obsolescence including Porsche. Since it’s your DD expect more mechanical problems. But as long as you believe it’s worth having then follow Isuk advice regarding the used PDK box. That said, you will need a hefty bank account which I am confident you have.

My car is 75% depreciated . Keeping it a few more years will only make it drop a few thousand. 

If I would buy a new car  ( lets say 992 ) I would loose 30k ( at least )  in the first year . 50k over two years . 

The calculation as to what is cheaper to do , is easy .  Gives my quite some margin on repairs on the 997

Time and inconvenience is money. Your 997 will have additional problems causing it to be out of service and you running around trying to find a shop to repair it. That’s inherent in all cars. As I posted earlier, if you love the car as DD keep it. Before doing so, you should explore alternatives. 

Btw, I acknowledge I’m not a fan of older cars. Too many good new cars.

 

you are missing out😀

sometimes newer cars are too perfect for their own good.

some say Tesla’s are the newest thing, but what fun is there driving it? My Panamera is like the latest and greatest, but it doesn’t hold a candle next to my Turbo 3.6 which just turned 25. 
 

Gnil:

My 997 goes pretty well . I took it  to Mugelo in september , as my RS was broken down ( also sensors  ) and I did have some interesting challenges with a Boxster 718 . 

I am not a cabriolet guy, so that rules out the Boxster . The Cayman ... only the GT4 , but then it would not be too practical as a DD ( quite low and not sure I want the attention from the wing each time I drive to the bakery to get my croissants or to the do-it-yourself to buy some paint , or fetching my kids from basketball or from the skate park .

Does it make your life better and happier because you change car every 12 or 18 month ?

I don’t become attached to inanimate objects. They are a tool to serve me. If a better tool comes along, it’s out with old and welcome the new. 
 

Nick, you have many new toys and one old decrepit 993. I wouldn’t be caught dead in one. When I see one on the road, my thought is the owner either can’t afford a new Porsche or he’s an old foggy who is living in the past. 

Having everything is nice, but it's even nicer to make sure everything you've got is actually worth having.

Nberry

Presume you trade in all your watches after the warranty expires as well?

They are tools as well with no emotional value  

nberry:

Nick, you have many new toys and one old decrepit 993. I wouldn’t be caught dead in one. When I see one on the road, my thought is the owner either can’t afford a new Porsche or he’s an old foggy who is living in the past. 

That, my friend, is the definition of being a snob.

You sound like someone who buys a GT3 RS to drive in the city. 

997.2 4S / BMW X5 40e / Donkervoort GT 

spudgun:

nberry:

Nick, you have many new toys and one old decrepit 993. I wouldn’t be caught dead in one. When I see one on the road, my thought is the owner either can’t afford a new Porsche or he’s an old foggy who is living in the past. 

That, my friend, is the definition of being a snob.

You sound like someone who buys a GT3 RS to drive in the city. 

You also sound like someone who doesn’t know much about cars, since a lot of older Porsches cost as much than a new one. Just saying 

--

997.2 4S / BMW 745e / Donkervoort GT 

Love driving my 997 and I love driving the T car even more. As a hardcore 911 owner for 40 years now that speaks volumes for how fun the little electron bundle is. IMHO. Just my 2 cents. 

nberry:

Nick, you have many new toys and one old decrepit 993. I wouldn’t be caught dead in one. When I see one on the road, my thought is the owner either can’t afford a new Porsche or he’s an old foggy who is living in the past. 

Nick, pretty soon I can picture you driving an EV people mover and when you see a sportscar you think how much cooler you are driving a 2 +ton Prius shaped EV sedan that only goes fast silently in a straightline and how much more fun that is that your "old" 911 real sportscar   

Kidding aside, surely you can realise that older cars offer different experiences that can also be appealing and not mutually exclusive to the appeal the "newest and latest" also has? Even if you don't fancy it, it's not hard to understand why others can?
--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

DJM48:

Nberry

Presume you trade in all your watches after the warranty expires as well?

They are tools as well with no emotional value  

I don’t wear watches. My smart phone provides all the information I need. Which brings up an interesting point. Are you a snob if you wear an expensive watch? The thread on watches gets the most action on the RT site.  What’s the point of wearing a watch that costs several thousands of dollars. Does it keep better time or is that the wearer wants people to know/think he/she is wealthy and successful?

The same issue with cars. I acknowledge that I buy cars because they in part define who I am. I’m willing to admit it. I am neither a hypocrite or a phony. I tell it like it is. A snub would do otherwise. 

Having everything is nice, but it's even nicer to make sure everything you've got is actually worth having.

refurbished ZF is the way to go....you made the right choice

a point is actually, where will all these cars end up when their electronics are obsolete and do not exist anymore.

millions of cars around that will be unrepairable in the (actually near) future.

that's the good thing about vintage cars pre electronics. a mechanic will always get them to run. even if mechanical parts will have to be fabricated.

nberry:

The same issue with cars. I acknowledge that I buy cars because they in part define who I am. I’m willing to admit it. I am neither a hypocrite or a phony. I tell it like it is. A snub would do otherwise. 

Then why buy a RS if you’re no track guy? Sounds more like you buy cars for the image they bring. (nothing wrong with that, just an observation) 

997.2 4S / BMW 745e / Donkervoort GT 

spudgun:

nberry:

The same issue with cars. I acknowledge that I buy cars because they in part define who I am. I’m willing to admit it. I am neither a hypocrite or a phony. I tell it like it is. A snub would do otherwise. 

Then why buy a RS if you’re no track guy? Sounds more like you buy cars for the image they bring. (nothing wrong with that, just an observation) 

Doesn’t everyone including yourself? I bought the RS because I love the way it looks. It has an aggressive road presence, a fabulous exhaust sound and doesn’t look like a run of the mill 911. And it goes like hell. My track days are behind me. I got tired of going around In circles trying to improve my time by second. while trashing the car. 

Having everything is nice, but it's even nicer to make sure everything you've got is actually worth having.

nberry:

 

Doesn’t everyone including yourself? I bought the RS because I love the way it looks. It has an aggressive road presence, a fabulous exhaust sound and doesn’t look like a run of the mill 911. And it goes like hell. My track days are behind me. I got tired of going around In circles trying to improve my time by second. while trashing the car. 

Sorry, not me. I've bought a Donkervoort solely for track abuse. Don't care one bit about the image, why would I? I wear a full faced helmet while driving. The car has a numberplate but I seldom drive it on the road. There is no fun in driving a track car on public roads. And I never time my laps, trackdays are more than driving circles.

But as you say: you drive a track car for its looks, fits perfect in that 'newer, better' philosphy. Makes all sense now. Anyway, different strokes for different folks. 

997.2 4S / BMW 745e / Donkervoort GT 

intouch1:

a point is actually, where will all these cars end up when their electronics are obsolete and do not exist anymore.

millions of cars around that will be unrepairable in the (actually near) future.

Yes, this will be an issue for many electronic systems, but a malfunctioning nav system will not,cripple a car.  PDK is central to any Porsche so equipped, and for this reason I would think Porsche will eventually have to come up with some way to repair transmissions like Eric's, in a cost effective manner.  Having several thousand Erics, all raising shit with their dealers, could be bad for image.  

2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2019 Porsche 911 Turbo

4trac:

 

Yes, this will be an issue for many electronic systems, but a malfunctioning nav system will not,cripple a car.  PDK is central to any Porsche so equipped, and for this reason I would think Porsche will eventually have to come up with some way to repair transmissions like Eric's, in a cost effective manner.  Having several thousand Erics, all raising shit with their dealers, could be bad for image.  

My dealer did ask Porsche for some sort of help , it was denied . Only solution from them was to buy a new gearbox .

Then I asked Porsche Switzerland myself . They tuned be back to the dealer  

As to repair electronics , some shops are doing it . When a faulty PCM Porsche replace the whole unit .  Some shops are able to find the problem and only replace the faulty part . 

It is a bit of a shame that a great PDK boxe , with so many mechanical parts , ends up declared '' dead '' just because of a sensor . 

As I mentioned , on the Panamera these same sensors are located outside of the gearbox ,so you can actually replace them . On the 911 there is maybe not enough space ? 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

An on the VW-family PDK’s? Aren’t they a similar design?

997.2 4S / BMW 745e / Donkervoort GT 

The VW and Audi DCTs are made by LuK. There the Mechatronic units of DSG/S-tronic fail very often which can be replaced separately at a cost of about €1.500-€2.000.

I've had 3 fail on our family cars (1 on a Polo and two Q5 went through one each).

In the case of Porsche it is bad design to incorporate a vulnerable sensor inside the sealed gearbox. Does anyone know if it is the same design on 991 and 992?

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

spudgun:

Or, like Immanuel Kant once famously wrote in his book Kritik der reinen Vernunft: ‘a car doesn’t depreciate if you don’t sell it.’ 

There were cars during Kant's lifetime?  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

RC:

spudgun:

Or, like Immanuel Kant once famously wrote in his book Kritik der reinen Vernunft: ‘a car doesn’t depreciate if you don’t sell it.’ 

There were cars during Kant's lifetime?  

Yes, but only Mustangs.

997.2 4S / BMW 745e / Donkervoort GT 

I'm sorry to hear about this fiasco with your gearbox, this is unacceptable. What were the engineers thinking when they designed it like that? Porsche should be ashamed to be handling it like that. I think they need to get a program going that allows for a better repair/refurbish solution.

This whole thing reminds of the trouble I had with the front axle lift system on my GT3. It malfunctioned because of a faulty pressure sensor and the dealership was unable to just order the sensor and replace it. Thankfully Porsche sent a complete unit and replaced it under warranty so it was ultimately a happy ending; out of warranty though the retail price for it would have been over 10K .

If I don't fly, I drive my .:RS 

It looks like sensors in general are a weak point . Are they just badly done ? Or is it that it is difficult to make them reliable and long lasting ? 

The problem I had with my new GT3 RS this summer ( engine went into limp mode , took Porsche 3 weeks to find where the problem came from )  also had to do with faulty sensors . 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

Well, I guess they are by definition very sensitive pieces of equipment, almost always operating in harsh environments (high temperature, high pressure, nasty chemicals, strong vibrations, you name it). Also the results of them failing can be quite large, as they are used as input for the brains of the car to operate on... So these three factors combined may result in a relatively high amount of "sensors causing trouble".

Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys