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Oct 28, 2007 8:44:22 PM
- palenimbus
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Oct 29, 2007 3:35:23 AM
- U Boat Commander
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- Loc: Los Angeles, CA
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Re: Next Porsche Supercar
Quote:
ninoSRB said:
Are the some rumors true that the next Porsche supercar will get twin-turbo 6.0L V10 with 950 bhp?
I think there is a big possibility of this happening, Porsche has always had the believe that within there stable (VW, Bugatti,Bentley, Porsche) their has to be the most powerful. Right now this is not the case, the Bugatti is far nore powerful than the CGT
Re: Next Porsche Supercar
Quote:
ITALO said:
I think there is a big possibility of this happening, Porsche has always had the believe that within there stable (VW, Bugatti,Bentley, Porsche) their has to be the most powerful. Right now this is not the case, the Bugatti is far nore powerful than the CGT
Since when have Porsche "always had the belief that within their stable their's has to be the most powerful"
I would have thought quite the opposite is true ? Other manufacturers (like Merc, lambo/Audi) go for the big power numbers, Porsche seem to take an almost perverse pleasure in delivering cars with lower stated power numbers which then go on to outperform all the competition !
The CGT was tested with over 800hp in prototype form and is easily (but expensively) tunable to ~700hp but it was signed off with what Walter et al deemed the best balance -its measily 612PS and flat torque curve provides ridiculous amount of thrills - Porsche doesn't do the hp war IMO
Re: Next Porsche Supercar
Quote:
TB993tt said:Quote:
ITALO said:
I think there is a big possibility of this happening, Porsche has always had the believe that within there stable (VW, Bugatti,Bentley, Porsche) their has to be the most powerful. Right now this is not the case, the Bugatti is far nore powerful than the CGT
Since when have Porsche "always had the belief that within their stable their's has to be the most powerful"
I would have thought quite the opposite is true ? Other manufacturers (like Merc, lambo/Audi) go for the big power numbers, Porsche seem to take an almost perverse pleasure in delivering cars with lower stated power numbers which then go on to outperform all the competition !
The CGT was tested with over 800hp in prototype form and is easily (but expensively) tunable to ~700hp but it was signed off with what Walter et al deemed the best balance -its measily 612PS and flat torque curve provides ridiculous amount of thrills - Porsche doesn't do the hp war IMO
TB, when Porsche bought a stake in VW owners of Bugatti they were worried that the Bugatti is more powerful than there flagship. The CGT came out in 03/04 and then there wasn't a Bugatti Veyron around. Ensure you check you facts before disputing well known information. Forget about Porsche sticking to the low weight low power ideology, the veyron is the most powerful car in the world and as far that this car is under Porsche stables they won't allow it. It's a well known fact okay
Re: Next Porsche Supercar
ITALO
I think I misread what you were getting at ? You are saying that with Porsche now having a big stake in VW they are not happy with the Veyron eclipsing the Porsche flagship (CGT) ?
If this is what you mean then I am not disputing it - What I mean is that amongst other car makers Porsche focuses on things other than soley maximum hp, this has always been the case with their products....
I think I misread what you were getting at ? You are saying that with Porsche now having a big stake in VW they are not happy with the Veyron eclipsing the Porsche flagship (CGT) ?
If this is what you mean then I am not disputing it - What I mean is that amongst other car makers Porsche focuses on things other than soley maximum hp, this has always been the case with their products....
Re: Next Porsche Supercar
Quote:
nberry said:
Has Porsche ever built a supercar that was profitable? If so, was the margin sufficient enough to entice them to do it again? If the answer to both question is yes then expect another supercar. If no to either one, forget about it.
The Bugatti Veyron was not a profitable venture but they still built them
Re: Next Porsche Supercar
The 959 was a money pit, but they did make the CGT.
(the GT1 does not count, it's a homologation special)
Supercars don't need to be profitable on their own, as long as they work as a halo car. It's an investment. Today's 10-year-old is tomorrow's customer.
Every generation needs an icon. The 911 is not exclusive enough to make boys dream of buying a Porsche when they grow up, rather than any other sports car brand in the same price range. So yes, Porsche does need an out-of-this-world supercar once in a while.
(the GT1 does not count, it's a homologation special)
Supercars don't need to be profitable on their own, as long as they work as a halo car. It's an investment. Today's 10-year-old is tomorrow's customer.
Every generation needs an icon. The 911 is not exclusive enough to make boys dream of buying a Porsche when they grow up, rather than any other sports car brand in the same price range. So yes, Porsche does need an out-of-this-world supercar once in a while.
Re: Next Porsche Supercar
Quote:
The Groom said:
The 959 was a money pit, but they did make the CGT.
The 959 was made at a large loss, but it was a wise calculated investment in technology (R&D) that was designed to feed every model from the 964 C4 to the 997TT. I'm not sure the CGT's technology is as easily fed to downstream models (though I'd love to see a CF tub in a 911 and that V10 will likely be used again)
Re: Next Porsche Supercar
Quote:
nberry said:
Has Porsche ever built a supercar that was profitable? If so, was the margin sufficient enough to entice them to do it again? If the answer to both question is yes then expect another supercar. If no to either one, forget about it.
the CGT was profitable. However I doubt that the Enzo was...
Re: Next Porsche Supercar
Quote:
ITALO said:
TB, when Porsche bought a stake in VW owners of Bugatti they were worried that the Bugatti is more powerful than there flagship. The CGT came out in 03/04 and then there wasn't a Bugatti Veyron around. Ensure you check you facts before disputing well known information. Forget about Porsche sticking to the low weight low power ideology, the veyron is the most powerful car in the world and as far that this car is under Porsche stables they won't allow it. It's a well known fact okay
EVERYONE knew that the Veyron was testing though. I did a research paper on Bugatti in 2002, and that was at least a year after I'd heard about the Veyron.
Re: Next Porsche Supercar
Quote:
The Groom said:
The 959 was a money pit, but they did make the CGT.
(the GT1 does not count, it's a homologation special)
Supercars don't need to be profitable on their own, as long as they work as a halo car. It's an investment. Today's 10-year-old is tomorrow's customer.
Every generation needs an icon. The 911 is not exclusive enough to make boys dream of buying a Porsche when they grow up, rather than any other sports car brand in the same price range. So yes, Porsche does need an out-of-this-world supercar once in a while.
Porsche is runned by Windeking and he is on record that the Veyron is a mistake. Also, the concept of building a supercar to use the technolgy in future models is no longer valid. Much testing is done via computer/technology and investing vast somes of money into a losing enterprise is not what profitable companies do these days.
If there is money to be msde Porsche will build it. If not, it is highly unlikely they would invest the resources to build a car just to give its image a boast. Porsche doesn't need its image boasted.
Re: Next Porsche Supercar
Nick, I think Porsche does need its image boosted. About to be Master of a huge automobile empire, they need a daring cutting edge product that creates a paradigm shift in the design cliched supercar world.
Imagine a 2000lb hybrid that can do 200 mph and go 400 miles between charges when run at normal speeds. Kind of a super hybrid RSK for the new century. Thats what they need. Less weight, fewer parts, simpler to build would generate them substantial savings in supply chain costs, in other words..greater profit.
Just another scale busting V10/V8/V12 coupe with a me 2 laundry list of features would be a bore, not generate much new consumer love appeal for the company and do nothing to position them as the worlds automotive engineering leader.
Porsche has to innovate now or time will dwindle away the brands value and goodwill in customers minds.
Imagine a 2000lb hybrid that can do 200 mph and go 400 miles between charges when run at normal speeds. Kind of a super hybrid RSK for the new century. Thats what they need. Less weight, fewer parts, simpler to build would generate them substantial savings in supply chain costs, in other words..greater profit.
Just another scale busting V10/V8/V12 coupe with a me 2 laundry list of features would be a bore, not generate much new consumer love appeal for the company and do nothing to position them as the worlds automotive engineering leader.
Porsche has to innovate now or time will dwindle away the brands value and goodwill in customers minds.
Re: Next Porsche Supercar
Quote:
nberry said:
Porsche is runned by Windeking and he is on record that the Veyron is a mistake. Also, the concept of building a supercar to use the technolgy in future models is no longer valid. Much testing is done via computer/technology and investing vast somes of money into a losing enterprise is not what profitable companies do these days.
So the FXX program is not about testing as advertised, just a $2 million feel good project?
Re: Next Porsche Supercar
Jim I agree with you in principle but disagree that Porsche needs to change. Essentially their core market do not want change but just incremental increase in power/performance. The car has looked the same with the same configuration for over 40 years. Porschephiles are happy with it and would rebel if change was to occur.
Thuggy, the FXX is essentially the Enzo with F1 updated technology.At Ferrari, the R&D is done on F1 cars and transitioned to production cars.
Thuggy, the FXX is essentially the Enzo with F1 updated technology.At Ferrari, the R&D is done on F1 cars and transitioned to production cars.
Re: Next Porsche Supercar
Quote:
nberry said:
Jim I agree with you in principle but disagree that Porsche needs to change. Essentially their core market do not want change but just incremental increase in power/performance.
That's always a tricky transition, but those customers do die off eventually. Porsche can easily afford to keep making the 911 for the old-timers, and something else, for younger customers.
In any case, the 911 is not enough to attract today the customers of tomorrow. It is the best sports car today, because it's most convenient and versatile real sport car.
However, "convenient" and "versatile" are not what makes 10-year-olds want a car of the same brand when they grow up!
Oct 30, 2007 4:59:00 PM
- Spyderidol
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- Loc: Mozambique
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Re: Next Porsche Supercar
Porsche needs to come up with a modern platform with which it can produce a top notch sports car (like only Porsche can) and at the same time develop a modern competitive track version for its racing program (read business).
The demise of the 997 this year will (and has already) cost Porsche some very important teams (loss of business) and they seem to have been caught flat footed by Ferrari who is stealing clients from under their noses.
The demise of the 997 this year will (and has already) cost Porsche some very important teams (loss of business) and they seem to have been caught flat footed by Ferrari who is stealing clients from under their noses.
Re: Next Porsche Supercar
Quote:
nberry said:
Thuggy, the FXX is essentially the Enzo with F1 updated technology.At Ferrari, the R&D is done on F1 cars and transitioned to production cars.
So why all the telemetry in the FXX, developing new traction control and new shift programs, calling them "Client Test Drivers" in their own press release? Come on nick
So porsche does research on actual production based race cars. I think the GT3 RSR has more direct translation to Porsche road cars than Ferrari's 658 F1 car does to a 430 or 599
Re: Next Porsche Supercar
I always believed the FXX was a bit of a gimmick to involve Ferrari's wealthier clientèle and extract exorbitant amounts of money from them ( to fund the REAL development programme -hehehe)
Then again, since I am not a Ferrari VIP customer/race employee, I can't say for sure what they do with the "telemetry/other data" that they gather from the FXXs....
Then again, since I am not a Ferrari VIP customer/race employee, I can't say for sure what they do with the "telemetry/other data" that they gather from the FXXs....
Re: Next Porsche Supercar
Quote:
Moogle said:
I always believed the FXX was a bit of a gimmick to involve Ferrari's wealthier clientèle and extract exorbitant amounts of money from them ( to fund the REAL development programme -hehehe)
Then again, since I am not a Ferrari VIP customer/race employee, I can't say for sure what they do with the "telemetry/other data" that they gather from the FXXs....
Your probably right. I just wondering where my invite ended up?!?!?!??!
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