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    Is it that good?

    ... or is it just because Nissan never ever build a car this fast, with such a good chassis or a a gearbox like this? Or because is the newest car btw the both?

    anyway this guys from the edmunds.com made a comparisson btwn the turbo and the GT... and this is the conclusion (at least they start to say that "the Nissan is almost as fast" as the 911 and no faster as so many where saying):

    The Best of the Best
    For all-round ability, I have no doubt the Nissan is the best car I've ever driven. It is almost as fast as the Porsche - which means it's almost as fast as any car on earth - and inspires more confidence through corners, yet it's also more roomy and practical and has a proper modern gearbox. It's a big, solid car you can rely on when the going gets tricky, that you can thrash around a track, then set the suspension to soft, the transmission to auto, the Bose audio to full bass and putter into town without a trace of angst.

    Oh, I nearly forgot - price. The 911 Turbo comes in at about $100,000, which is a good value for such a stupendous car, but the GT-R will cost about $40,000 less.

    Mizuno-san is right. This car has no competitors. Not at any price. But that won't prevent one of the first GT-Rs in Europe from being bought by an anonymous man and taken to Porsche AG in Stuttgart for a thorough examination. With an even more powerful and lighter V-Spec GT-R on the way, Porsche can't afford to lag behind for long.


    and the link: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=123940#8

    hope it is not a repost

    Re: Is it that good?

    Sure is an ugly fker. Like Viper, Nissan Z, corvette and Turbo rolled into one messed up package. Too bad.

    The second shoe drops...

    First, it was the stunning C6/Z06 and now the Nisssan GT-R. See this report .

    Re: The second shoe drops...

    I think it's a comparison of apples to oranges. Before I bought my M3 in 2003, I took an Infiniti G35 coupe for a spin. It did have about 53 less hp, but that aside I picked the M3 because the build quality is night and day different. The Inifiniti is Nissan's premium brand, and it was garbage inside. The seats were uncomfortable, the analog gauges looked like there were from the '70's, and the buttons were loose fitting. Even the seat levers looked like they would snap off. I don't imagine the Nissan GT is much better. You simply can't build a Porsche 911 Turbo equivalent for $40K less, without cutting some serious corners. And I agree, it is BUTT ugly.

    Re: The second shoe drops...

    Quote:
    JoeRockhead said:
    I think it's a comparison of apples to oranges. Before I bought my M3 in 2003, I took an Infiniti G35 coupe for a spin. It did have about 53 less hp, but that aside I picked the M3 because the build quality is night and day different. The Inifiniti is Nissan's premium brand, and it was garbage inside. The seats were uncomfortable, the analog gauges looked like there were from the '70's, and the buttons were loose fitting. Even the seat levers looked like they would snap off. I don't imagine the Nissan GT is much better. You simply can't build a Porsche 911 Turbo equivalent for $40K less, without cutting some serious corners. And I agree, it is BUTT ugly.



    I don't think Nissan/Infinity builds any attractive vehicles today. That goes for cars or suv's or minivans. I prefer Toyota/Lexus if I had to choose.

    Re: Is it that good?

    The GTR has always been a factory hindred world beater.it looks like nissan finally let the car exercise its full potential out the box and take it to all comers. It comes as no surprise though that its better than the porsche since that was its benchmark and spiritual enemy during development and testing. It was built as a porsche tt [beep] you machine much like the R8 is to the na p cars.

    Time to face facts...porsche has been resting on their laurels and charging a large premium for their 40 year old design without offering any real substantive technical improvements. I mean their profit margin is like 20 percent which is insane in this kind of market.

    Porsche better stop hitting the snooze button and realize the jig is up and the competitors want their business in a meaningful way with better than product at a lower price.

    Re: Is it that good?

    Quote:
    Heist said:

    Porsche better stop hitting the snooze button and realize the jig is up and the competitors want their business in a meaningful way with better than product at a lower price.



    I dunno. There will always be guys with lots of money to spend on Porsches. Since they only make a few thousand cars a year they'll have no problem finding an adequate number of such buyers.

    I know I ain't buyin' no Nissan, nor a GM; nor do I plan on offering myself as an extortion victim by purchasing/maintaining a Ferrari.


    Re: Is it that good?

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Quote:
    Heist said:

    Porsche better stop hitting the snooze button and realize the jig is up and the competitors want their business in a meaningful way with better than product at a lower price.



    I dunno. There will always be guys with lots of money to spend on Porsches. Since they only make a few thousand cars a year they'll have no problem finding an adequate number of such buyers.

    I know I ain't buyin' no Nissan, nor a GM; nor do I plan on offering myself as an extortion victim by purchasing/maintaining a Ferrari.






    Re: Is it that good?

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Quote:
    Heist said:

    Porsche better stop hitting the snooze button and realize the jig is up and the competitors want their business in a meaningful way with better than product at a lower price.



    I dunno. There will always be guys with lots of money to spend on Porsches. Since they only make a few thousand cars a year they'll have no problem finding an adequate number of such buyers.

    I know I ain't buyin' no Nissan, nor a GM; nor do I plan on offering myself as an extortion victim by purchasing/maintaining a Ferrari.





    Well that's you ... I co-sign on GM. They're still locked in DeLorean school of thought for performance - just make the car as cheaply as possible and shove in the biggest, most powerful engine.

    As for Nissan, I have ZERO qualms. I've owned 3 and they're probably the most "Germanic" of the Japanese in terms of performance and feel.

    Their racing history ain't too bad either. They were always in the fray at all levels until Goshn decided he wanted Renault's name to be supreme in F1 which pretty much killed the budget for Nissan outside of the GT series in Japan.

    Ferrari is a whole other level - it's not an everyday exotic like the P or GTR.
    It's an expensive tempermental toy for people who basically don't know their net worth anymore.

    Re: Is it that good?

    Quote:
    Heist said:

    As for Nissan, I have ZERO qualms. I've owned 3 and they're probably the most "Germanic" of the Japanese in terms of performance and feel.



    Yeah, from what little experience I have and what I read, I think you are right about N. (sorry too much at last posting ).

    I just can't stand their looks. They and BMW: when will the nightmare end?

    Re: Is it that good?

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Quote:
    Heist said:

    As for Nissan, I have ZERO qualms. I've owned 3 and they're probably the most "Germanic" of the Japanese in terms of performance and feel.



    Yeah, from what little experience I have and what I read, I think you are right about N. (sorry too much at last posting ).

    I just can't stand their looks. They and BMW: when will the nightmare end?



    Well, BMW is taking some daring risk. I actually like the new 7 and 5. It's that polarizing - love it or hate it.

    Nissan, well, their risk (with the exception of the Q45) have always seemed to pay off...G35 is probably one of the sexiest designs out of Japan since the Acura Legend Coupe. Z was a hit. 240 is a perenial.

    Toyota plays it too safe and often gets kicks out a lot of awkward designs. Acura is ho-hum.

    Re: Is it that good?

    Maybe I'm an old f*rt (mid40s). I grew up when cars were still inspired by the looks of sleek predatory mammals. Now they are inspired by _insects_. Haha. Just having some fun with it; I definitely should loosen up a bit, thanks for prompting me.

    Re: The second shoe drops...

    Quote:
    JoeRockhead said:You simply can't build a Porsche 911 Turbo equivalent for $40K less, without cutting some serious corners.


    I disagree. Porsche makes so much profit on the 911TT that they could certainly sell it for $40k less and still make a (much smaller) profit.

    The base 987 Boxster costs about 1/3 as much as a 997TT and probably costs about 2/3 as much to build (and they make plenty of profit on those too).

    Re: The second shoe drops...

    That's a reasonable comparison, but I'm willing to bet that vastly more R&D dollars went into the 997TT versus the 987. There are costs associated with giving enthusiasts a new benchmark that simply don't apply to a car like the Boxster, and I say this as a big Boxster fan.

    Then again, Porsche sell so many Cayennes that it might be wise to subsidize the sportscar programs with those funds.

    I honestly don't think there are any sleepless nights in Zuffenhausen over this. If you have the money for a Turbo, why buy a Nissan? I'm sure it's a fine car, but it's in a different tax bracket.

    Re: Is it that good?

    Quote:
    Heist said:
    Time to face facts...porsche has been resting on their laurels and charging a large premium for their 40 year old design without offering any real substantive technical improvements.



    You really should give some serious thought to nberry's statements before repeating them as if they were your own opinions.

    It could make you sound so shallow otherwise.

    Whenever I look up close at a 911 from the 60s, 70s, or even mid-80s (just 20 years ago) I am surprised to be reminded of just how much the design and technology have changed in the meantime, including "substantive technical improvements" in line with changes in the state of the (auto tech) art.

    "Design" consists of a lot more than just side-view silouette of a car. This silouette, in the case of the 911, has indeed been broadly adhered to over 40 years, but "by popular request" of the buyers the car is aimed at. So what can be so wrong with that?

    Re: Is it that good?

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    Heist said:
    Time to face facts...porsche has been resting on their laurels and charging a large premium for their 40 year old design without offering any real substantive technical improvements.



    You really should give some serious thought to nberry's statements before repeating them as if they were your own opinions.

    It could make you sound so shallow otherwise.

    Whenever I look up close at a 911 from the 60s, 70s, or even mid-80s (just 20 years ago) I am surprised to be reminded of just how much the design and technology have changed in the meantime, including "substantive technical improvements" in line with changes in the state of the (auto tech) art.

    "Design" consists of a lot more than just side-view silouette of a car. This silouette, in the case of the 911, has indeed been broadly adhered to over 40 years, but "by popular request" of the buyers the car is aimed at. So what can be so wrong with that?



    So fritz... are you saying that you have jumped on the VTG bandwagon? Has Porsche marketing managed to pull the wool over your eyes?

    Give me a break. I'm sure the R&D has done a lot more than Porsche's marketing & management has allowed them to release. In other words, they're willing to give as little innovation as possible that will not be detrimental to overall sales growth. May be good for Porsche now but it may hurt them in the long run.

    Re: Is it that good?

    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    So fritz... are you saying that you have jumped on the VTG bandwagon? Has Porsche marketing managed to pull the wool over your eyes?

    Give me a break. I'm sure the R&D has done a lot more than Porsche's marketing & management has allowed them to release. In other words, they're willing to give as little innovation as possible that will not be detrimental to overall sales growth. May be good for Porsche now but it may hurt them in the long run.



    I assure you, I am just as inclined to react allergically to marketing hyperbole as anyone else here, but I don't allow my native skepticism to disable my powers of analysis to the point of becoming irrational.
    I fail to see circumstances under which a company operating in a competetive environment would benefit from a deliberate sustained policy of not releasing the technology readily available to it, thereby enhancing its position in the market.

    Re: Is it that good?

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    Heist said:
    Time to face facts...porsche has been resting on their laurels and charging a large premium for their 40 year old design without offering any real substantive technical improvements.



    You really should give some serious thought to nberry's statements before repeating them as if they were your own opinions.

    It could make you sound so shallow otherwise.

    Whenever I look up close at a 911 from the 60s, 70s, or even mid-80s (just 20 years ago) I am surprised to be reminded of just how much the design and technology have changed in the meantime, including "substantive technical improvements" in line with changes in the state of the (auto tech) art.

    "Design" consists of a lot more than just side-view silouette of a car. This silouette, in the case of the 911, has indeed been broadly adhered to over 40 years, but "by popular request" of the buyers the car is aimed at. So what can be so wrong with that?



    Fritzy baby ... maybe you don't know that in my time I've worked with consumer product engineers from every discipline - automotive, industrial design, mechanical, electrical, rf, yada yada so I know design is more than just refreshing a silouette and I understand the labor, though, and manhours that goes into just about any product beyond the complexity of a pencil and has more than 3 moving parts.

    The 911 has been a refinement and evolution of design and engineering over the last 40 years as opposed to any great technical leaps forward. Not that I'm knocking it per se - at one point it was the engineering design to beat in the sportscar world but at some point due to competition you have to grab a fresh sheet of paper and the 911 is about a decade overdue in my opinion.

    That's what I meant, Fritz.

    I mean for god's sake it's 2007 and they still don't have a F1 style transmission option (next year, I know), liberal use of C/F or Aluminium to keep weight down - nope - and for all the money they make on their cars (let's keep in mind Porsche is the most profitable car co. in the world) you think they could throw some weight savings materials around ... oh, and they just ditched the air cooled engine about a decade ago.

    Re: Is it that good?

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    So fritz... are you saying that you have jumped on the VTG bandwagon? Has Porsche marketing managed to pull the wool over your eyes?

    Give me a break. I'm sure the R&D has done a lot more than Porsche's marketing & management has allowed them to release. In other words, they're willing to give as little innovation as possible that will not be detrimental to overall sales growth. May be good for Porsche now but it may hurt them in the long run.



    I assure you, I am just as inclined to react allergically to marketing hyperbole as anyone else here, but I don't allow my native skepticism to disable my powers of analysis to the point of becoming irrational.
    I fail to see circumstances under which a company operating in a competetive environment would benefit from a deliberate sustained policy of not releasing the technology readily available to it, thereby enhancing its position in the market.



    Fritz, than sad to say you don't know enough about business strategy - especially the product business/car business.

    Companies even in a competitive marketplace, purposely hold back advancements and innovations in order to give their current products "legs" or a longer life span - i.e. althought the techonolgy is tried, tested, and true, they'll incoporate it towards the end of the product cycle or when sales start to slump in order to give the product a boost.

    Or, they place those innovations/advancements in a product with a later release date in order to spur its interest and hopefully sales.

    Or they sell the innovations/advancements to someone else under a shell company hoping their competitor will buy it because they have something better than waiting to spring on them like a trap.

    Or they sell the innovations/advancements under a shell company knowing it has a fatal flaw or a weakness that once a competitor picks it up, they can exploit.

    The business game is dirty and nasty at its core and I revel in the filth.

    Re: Is it that good?

    Quote:
    Heist
    Ferrari is a whole other level - it's not an everyday exotic like the P or GTR.




    But is it the GTR an "exotic" !?!?

    Re: Is it that good?

    Not an exotic in my book, but a very good car and probably worth the money.

    Re: Is it that good?

    Extremely tough unenviable decision but I have to say I'd nix the extra HP (public road use only) get the somehow less fugly though equally hideous M3. Sure glad I already have a TT.



    Re: Is it that good?




    Re: Is it that good?

    haha Nissan FISHIE...

    Re: Is it that good?

    I found this one for our..., ahem..., "research" purposes.

     
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