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    Re: Porsche Mission X Hypercar

    Whoopsy:
    CGX car nut:

    So the Mission X is as complete as Porsche’s current 963.  The real crucible of acceptance will be the EV replacements for the Boxster and Cayman.  If the initial acceptance isn’t great, I would be surprised if Porsche wouldn’t then ditch the Mission X for something more akin to an update variant of the 918. 


    They can’t. 
     

    It would not be possible for them to back track anymore. They are stuck doing the EV path no matter what. 
     

    Yes, they will do it for a few years at least (like the 4-cyl experiment)


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    22 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.9L Twin-Plug MFI Carbon Fiber replica. Former: 18 GT3 Manual, 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi, 06 EVO9 with track mods


    Re: Porsche Mission X Hypercar

    Whoopsy - I don't get the CGT vendetta.  I understand it was not a car that moved the world forward in terms of innovation, but it seems like its purpose was to celebrate all that was great and now lost in modern cars. 

    It is the last great analog supercar from one of the top marques and is widely loved for this (especially the V10 and manual transmission).  That makes it more special to me than a 959 or 918 which were objectively much more innovative and groundbreaking in their day.   Obviously this is a subjective opinion and you're entitled to your own - just seems like you have a grudge against the car.

    To me the CGT will age better than any of the other Porsche super cars.  The 959 driving experience is not particularly special, and while the 918 is still hugely impressive in terms of technology, this will surely fade as time marches on and performance figures are surpassed. 

    Being the last of a breed cements the CGT as a rare and special bird that won't be recreated or surpassed in terms of what it was designed to achieve.  Can you tell I love the CGT? cool

    I like the looks of the Mission X but without a fire breathing and sonorous engine it's hard to get too excited.  Glad most of the world is going electric - this should actually start to help with climate issues if/when more electricity is actually generated by renewables and we fix the long tailpipe issue - but I'm still sad to see that even low volume supercars will follow this trend.  Guess I'll always be buying second hand, unless they keep the GT3 in its current form going forward.

     


    Re: Porsche Mission X Hypercar

    CGT was the result of not one but two failed racing programs and Porsche switched it over to road car to salvage what was invested. At the time, Porsche was borderline insolvent. If not for the Cayenne and 996, they might not be a Porsche anymore.

    Had the racing program gone off the ground and then they produce the CGT to celebrate that, my tune would have bene very different. I value cars according to the history behind it, and the CGT really doesn't have anything there.

    it has of course a glorious sounding V10, but that's about it. I am not a blind manual person, so the manual doesn't carry much weight for me. Whatever transmission a car has is a function of what era the car comes from. Nothing more.

    What is 'analog'? CGT has ABS, in objective terms, that already disqualified it as 'analog'. Not to mention the partial digital gauges. 

    1686835926375IMG_4023.JPG

    Here is a static display of cars at the PEC in Le Mans. 

    Backside is a RS Spyder, a 961, which happens to be the one carrying Kees Nierop's name, my track's head instructor, and the original Carrera GT, the 924 Carrera GTR car racing in the GTP category. 

    Front side is a 356, a 959, the CGT and the 918. The 356 was on a rotation with a fully restored 930 turbo. 

    RS Spyder has a connection with the 918, the 961 with the 959 and I guess the modern CGT with the 924 as they do have the same name. 

    Throughout the day, I had discussion with various Porsche people, just about anyone would take the 356 first, the 959 next, the 918 and then the CGT in that order for the road cars. Even Dr Oliver Blume. Not surprised. 356 is the original Porsche. and the other 3 in the order of rarity. 

    I get why people love the CGT, it's a manual, it has a glorious V10, Paul Walker, etc. But all are subjective qualities. CGT is a stub on the Porsche tree, no leaves grew out of the stub, it's just, a stub. 

     

     

     

     

     


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    Re: Porsche Mission X Hypercar

    I'm familiar with all the pedigree (largely thanks to your previous posts kiss).  Its failed racing car engine (objective) and unforgiving reputation (subjective I suppose but fairly unanimous) enhance the pedigree in my view. 

    It marks the end of an era and the last of something, while the 959 and 918 mark the start of new chapters in technological development.  I can appreciate both for what they are yes

    If you could take one final drive over your favorite road or track, would you pick a 356, 959 or CGT?  Each has it's own character but one is clearly a more thrilling/intense driving experience.


    Re: Porsche Mission X Hypercar

    The 356, of course, for a final drive.  It’s much slower speed means there’s much more time to savor the experience.  


    Re: Porsche Mission X Hypercar

    Like CGX, I am taking a 356 in a heart beat, the ultimate analog car. 

    I suppose I could take a 550.......but nah, has to be a 356, no other choice.

    Fun fact, most of my cars have 356 plates. The 918 of course has a 918 plate however. 

     

     


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    Re: Porsche Mission X Hypercar

    There are a few more clips on my phone for the official event at Zuffenhausen

     

    IMG_3979.mov
    IMG_3978.mov
    IMG_3977.mov
    IMG_3976.mov
    IMG_3975.mov
    IMG_3974.mov
    IMG_3973.mov
    IMG_3985.mov
    IMG_3943.mov
    IMG_3984.mov


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    Re: Porsche Mission X Hypercar

    CIRCLE_DAY_01_001069.jpeg

    I am just under 6ft tall, never considered myself tiny, but I am when standing next to Dr Blume

     


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    Re: Porsche Mission X Hypercar

    Thanks for posting the vids Whoopsy, Porsche can really put on a show. And the Mission X looks better in video than in pictures. 


    Re: Porsche Mission X Hypercar

    These days a show it’s what they are good at. Less good at racing unfortunately. Sad.


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    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: Porsche Mission X Hypercar

    Thanks for all the pics. Re the Mission X, I am just not sure. It is somehow lacking something int he styling department. I also don’t like the vertical lights up front, looking a little…. Cadillac ??. Also not sure about the 3D porsche thingo….


    Re: Porsche Mission X Hypercar

    The design looks much better in the video (and consequently in real life, I expect)  as opposed to the still photos we've seen so far. I find the Mission X an outstanding styling Study. It could do with a more appropriate colour however.

    As to the previous Porsche supercars, the 959 looks ancient, the CGT a very successful classic design and the 918 still very contemporary and fresh. It is amazing how the 918 design could blend in traffic like a normal high-end sports car in spite its hypercar  status.

     


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    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     


    Re: Porsche Mission X Hypercar

    reginos:

    As to the previous Porsche supercars, the 959 looks ancient, the CGT a very successful classic design and the 918 still very contemporary and fresh. It is amazing how the 918 design could blend in traffic like a normal high-end sports car in spite its hypercar  status."Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

    Slightly off-topic, but found this interesting:

     


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    22 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.9L Twin-Plug MFI Carbon Fiber replica. Former: 18 GT3 Manual, 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi, 06 EVO9 with track mods


    Re: Porsche Mission X Hypercar

    Whoopsy:

    CIRCLE_DAY_01_001069.jpeg

    I am just under 6ft tall, never considered myself tiny, but I am when standing next to Dr Blume

     

    For our resident CGT-hater: Smiley

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAPEl0i18vg


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    1988 Peugeot 205 Rallye / 2004 Porsche 996 GT3 RS  / 2022 BMW M5 CS


    Re: Porsche Mission X Hypercar

    So, PAG had arranged some private one on one interviews about the Mission X. Seems like they aren't very sure on the direction of the car. There is like 8 of us that did it that I know of, probably more.

    None of my friends said they WANT a EV hypercar. Couple say they want a pure NA car, perhaps reuse the CGT's V10. One said he wants a flat 12. The V4 in the 919 with hybrid is another option. 

    It would seems the Mission X will be getting a rework before being presented again.


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    Re: Porsche Mission X Hypercar

    Flat 12 in an updated 917 format? An intriguing proposition for a collector but not a showpiece of the future for Porsche…

    Re: Porsche Mission X Hypercar

    Haha, hey Porsche asked us what we want 

    Our answers were wild!

     


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    Re: Porsche Mission X Hypercar

    You will get what the regulators tell you and you will either take it or leave it. 


    Re: Porsche Mission X Hypercar

    CGX car nut:

    You will get what the regulators tell you and you will either take it or leave it. 

    Smiley


    Re: Porsche Mission X Hypercar

    Have you seen this little video from Klaus Schwab? https://youtu.be/km0FjEAcZbM?si=kVsu3saWICo0vQnK


    Re: Porsche Mission X Hypercar

    Porsche guys are petrolhead with passion. Hypercar in electric format has little possibility to be a success unless you produce ten, put it as a concept homologated for the road and super collector item.

    Otherwise, stay classic, glorious engine, a bit of tech, a superb chassis and top time at the Ring and it will sell.

    918 was not a successful start during commercialization, more like a bit of a fiasco and suddenly the ring time started to attract people.


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    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual

    Cayenne GTS 2014

    Cayenne Coupe Turbo 2020


    Re: Porsche Mission X Hypercar

    918 was unique, back then when people think of hybrids, they think Prius. They never for once thought a hybrid would be the fastest car in the world back then, blowing away the P1 and LaFerrari, well it did. 10 years later, it is still one of the fastest car around. Porsche invented the performance hybrid. Now when people think of hybrids, it's a car with extra performance, not an Econo box. 

    They are trying to do the the same thing with a pure EV hypercar. Guess it already failed before it is launched. They lobbied to have gas engine continued and they had succeeded. Pure EV just aren't performance cars, they are just, well, transportation. It really doesn't matter how quickly a car can go from 0-60, a monkey can just mashed the throttle and let the computer do its work. It's not even challenging. What car enthusiasts cared about is how quickly can a car go around a corner and stop, that's the G-forces that matters. Acceleration is only part of the equation and it's not even the biggest part. 

    I mean Porsche really tried. Their e-perofrmance Cayman was impressive, but it's just lacking a soul. 

    And Porsche is all about the soul. 

     

     


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    Re: Porsche Mission X Hypercar

    I had thought that a critical part of the Mission X design brief was to beat the Nurburgring record.  Will beating that record increase commercial interest like the 918 ??

    Also not sure if customers want a car that can go all out on track for 1 or 2 laps and then must cool the batteries or recharge for 25 minutes.  But Porsche have great engineers so maybe they can solve these issues.


    Re: Porsche Mission X Hypercar

    The real problem is every EV regardless of horsepower and torque possess essentially the same torque curve.  As you are quite aware, it’s the shape of the torque curve that defines the characteristics of a performance car.  For years, many German cars were considered flat because of a flat torque curve resulting in unchanging acceleration across the rev band.  The true test is when Porsche releases the EV models of the next generation Boxster and Cayman.  That product launch will define the future of the performance car. 


    Re: Porsche Mission X Hypercar

    GT-Boy:

    I had thought that a critical part of the Mission X design brief was to beat the Nurburgring record.  Will beating that record increase commercial interest like the 918 ??

    Also not sure if customers want a car that can go all out on track for 1 or 2 laps and then must cool the batteries or recharge for 25 minutes.  But Porsche have great engineers so maybe they can solve these issues.


    not 1 or 2 laps, it runs even higher voltage than the Taycan, close to 1000V nominal, higher voltage means more efficiency. It’s supposed to be able to do a full track session, so 20-30 mins depending on the track rules.

    Their e-performance Cayman can already do Cup car level of performance for 30mins run right now.

     

     

     


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    Re: Porsche Mission X Hypercar

    “Their e-performance Cayman can already do Cup car level of performance for 30mins run right now.”

    Wow! Is there any public material I can read about that?


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    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: Porsche Mission X Hypercar

    Not quite the same but Autocar just drove the Porsche Macan EV prototype. https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/first-drive-2024-porsche-macan-prototype


    Re: Porsche Mission X Hypercar

    Pentium:

    “Their e-performance Cayman can already do Cup car level of performance for 30mins run right now.”

    Wow! Is there any public material I can read about that?

    https://motorsports.porsche.com/international/en/category/cars/gt4eperformance

    edit: Late last year there was a whole bunch of reviews/articles about it, some ride ons, but probably got lost somewhere. 

    I spent a bit of time talking to the team responsible for it in the garage at Rennsport. The key is consistent performance start to finish with no performance drop off at the end. Everything, batteries, motors are all oil cooled with a GIANT oil radiator/cooler up front. The 30 mins figure is 'normal' mode. They have a quali mode with everything unleashed but it only last 15mins or so.

    This is where Porsche, via their racing heritage, is leading the electric revolution, they don't aim for peak headline grabbing figures, but they aim for consistent high performance and right now, they have no peers. 


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    Re: Porsche Mission X Hypercar

    "The Road to Mission X" by Christophorus

    Porsche-Mission-X.jpg

    When tradition and innovation combine to create something new: the Porsche sports car brand celebrates its 75th anniversary with the vision of a futuristic hypercar. Christophorus provides an exclusive look at development.

    “It’s a dream,” says Head of Design Michael Mauer, when asked about developing the next potential hypercar. “And a whole lot of stress.” He’s the picture of relaxation at the moment. The Mission X was just unveiled at the Porsche Museum in Stuttgart-Zuffenhausen – just in time for the sports car brand’s 75th anniversary. Now the invited guests are crowding around the lowered concept vehicle in Rocket Metallic. The internally developed exterior color is a novelty, as its brown tone darkens depending on your perspective. Just one of many highlights provided by this spectacular reinterpretation of a Porsche hypercar.

    Former race car driver Mark Webber is talking shop with developers; Hollywood actor Patrick Dempsey is filming the concept car with his smartphone; and Chairman of the Supervisory Board Dr. Wolfgang Porsche is nodding in acknowledgement – he, too, is seeing the Mission X live and in color for the first time today. A few designers who have been working tirelessly on the concept car for the past year observe the action with a look of relief on their faces. Visually speaking, the hypercar is coherently proportioned and detailed in its design, as if it could go into production tomorrow.

    Handcrafted:

    Handcrafted: Using a true-to-size clay model, the designers can determine whether the digital designs will also work in reality. The contours are defined using tapes.

    Despite – or possibly because of – the Porsche practice of also technically implementing all concept studies, the project represented a marathon at sprint speed. “We basically worked on the concept car until the very last second,” says Mauer. “Your pulse is racing by the end, and you hope that everything runs and works.”

    A decision was made for the project with the working title XS23 in mid 2022. The decisive question at the beginning: What would be the right symbol for the next 75 years of Porsche? It quickly became clear that it had to be the next hypercar in the ancestral line from the 959 to the Carrera GT to the 918 Spyder – with an all-electric drive. The objective was to keep the proportions as compact as possible despite the latest high-performance technology. To start with, the countless concepts and ideas from the past five years were reviewed and reevaluated. “It was important to us to provide the car with a clear visual message: ‘I’m more than just a hypercar. Motorsport is in my genes,’” says Mauer.

    In addition to race cars such as the 919 Hybrid, which wrote history in Le Mans between 2014 and 2017, the designers also found inspiration in the great icons of the 1970s. For example, the lightweight glass dome with exoskeleton, the upward-swinging Le Mans doors, and the Daytona windows are reminiscent of the Porsche 917. “All of that is an echo of our glorious past in motorsport,” says Mauer. “And we’re fortunate enough to be able to draw on this amazing pool.” The headlights demonstrate a symbiosis between tradition and modernity. While the elements of the four-point light signature are usually positioned horizontally, they’re arranged vertically on the Mission X – inspired by historical Porsche race cars such as the 906 and 908.

    Rocket Metallic:

    Rocket Metallic: Developed specifically for the Mission X, the Rocket Metallic paint changes from warm, dark brown to cool olive depending on the lighting and perspective.

    The vehicle is an uncompromising hypercar, and yet the interior was not designed in the fashion of a functional race car cockpit. According to Mauer, you don’t need to prove to anyone visually that you can drive the fastest lap on Nürburgring. Rather than Alcantara, the interior features fabric that complements the color of the leather. “We focused on design quality, the materials, and the best possible integration of all the elements,” says the Head of Design. A harmonious overall composition was created in collaboration with colleagues from the Color & Trim department. The vehicle is painted in Rocket Metallic, a muted, reserved brown tone, rather than a signal color. Color schemes that are often used for luxury fashion brands and communicate subtle understatement. The lightweight carbon elements feature matching colors, so that they’re only visible at second glance. “The contrast between motorsport design and elegant, luxurious equipment generates excitement,” says Michael Mauer. “And excitement is one of our most important design principles.”

    The large matching surfaces of the Mission X are impossible to miss. “Many modern hypercars are made up almost entirely of holes,” says Mauer, laughing. “In comparison, the Mission X has many smooth, uninterrupted surfaces.” The appearance is almost sculptural, monolithic – qualities typical of Porsche. Also typical is the attention to detail. The front lights, the light strips, the start-up button in the interior, and the “E” in the Porsche lettering all pulse when the electric sports car with the planned high-performance battery and 900-volt system architecture is charging.

    Precision work:

    Precision work: It took countless hours to build the Mission X at the prototype workshop in Weissach. With its brushed precious metal, three-dimensional honeycomb structure, updated horse, and subtle gold color, the modernized Porsche emblem is also celebrating its premiere and adorns the hood and steering wheel. The wheel hub covers sport a monochrome variant of the emblem.

    When it comes to developing a concept car, it’s essential to be able to test, toss out, and optimize ideas without the pressure of series production. But this also comes with challenges of its own, explains Mauer: “The prototypes are built in our workshop. Most of the parts are specially produced. Sometimes they just don’t fit like they should. I don’t know how often we experimented with coloring the carbon parts until we were satisfied with the results.” Engineers, racing technicians, aerodynamics specialists, and experts in many other areas supported the project to ensure that the Porsche Mission X can be implemented at least theoretically. “This has allowed us to open a window to the future. And our understanding of sustainability is that even our concept cars can have sufficient impact on the brand’s future path.”

    If the concept study were to get the go-ahead, what would the next steps be? “We still need to work on the aerodynamics,” says Mauer openly. “We need to optimize the body to make it the fastest street-legal car on Nürburgring Nordschleife. There will be hundreds of hours of fine-tuning in the wind tunnel. The front of the car, including the headlights, is very advanced aesthetically, and even the interior is feasible with very little modification.” Mission X – a dream car that could become a reality.

    It’s a little later on the evening of the anniversary show at Porscheplatz, and the guests have made their way into the museum, where the special exhibition has just opened. Michael Mauer is standing next to the concept car, which is slowly turning under the spotlights. He carefully inspects his team’s work once again and then shares a brief story: “We designers love stickers. At some point, the idea took on a life of its own, and we designed an animal sticker for each new concept car.

    World premiere:

    World premiere: Head of Design Michael Mauer presents the Mission X and thus the Porsche vision for the future.

    There’s a dinosaur sticker on the Porsche Vision 357 – as a humorous reference to the fact that we built a concept study with a combustion engine at the dawn of the electric age. The sticker on the Mission R was a wild boar, but it was removed just before the trade fair and is now on my company car.” Mauer points to a small, inconspicuous sticker in front of the rear left wheel of the Mission X – a cheetah, the fastest land animal and a silent hunter, in mid-jump.

    Link:  https://christophorus.porsche.com/en/2023/408/road-to-mission-x.html


    Re: Porsche Mission X Hypercar

    I'm hearing that Porsche is having 2nd thoughts about putting the Mission X into production. Apparently, after several private previews with the top Porsche clients around the world, there was little enthusiasm for buying the car in the quantities that would make production viable. Has anyone else heard this too ? Maybe Porsche jumped the gun here on a pure EV as the other Holy Trinity successors appear to be ICE/Hybrid.

     
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