Crown

Many thanks for this great report 

The car looks stunning in red, BTW

Great report. As sometimes older people ( no offense meant) easily overlook small things, was there anything about the new 991.2  that your son thought was more fun or better than the 991.1?

Your review didn't exactly state a strong case to upgrade from a 991.1.  You get turbo whine without Turbo power, specd out you can get a non Turbo for amost a Turbo price, great. Porsche pricing formula trumps consumer logic again.

This car makes even less sense now. At least the old one was NA. Now it's just a shittier Turbo. You can get a used Turbo S for $130-140K.

Thanks RC, not only for your precise report, but your command of English.  While similar in its conclusions, you add  many helpful nuances.  

The new Carrera will sell well, and in the numbers that Porsche normally estimates for its facelift models--before the generation change.  And i agree that current 991 Carrera and GTS owners will still feel comfortable with their purchases.  

i think it will be very interesting to compare the 991.2 GTS model to yours, to see if Porsche will again achieve the GTS characteristics that are so appealing…., 

Thanks RC. Santa gave everyone Turbos this year!  It will be interesting to use launch control with a 4wd S.  I bet it will get to 100 in a hurry.  I noticed the gearing 84 mph at 6k rpm  - geared more like the GT3 than the Cayman or Boxter.  Seems like a pretty good use of the seven ratios and a handful with the seven speed manual .  PDK may be the best choice for this drivetrain.  There I said it  

BTW for those with old turbos like mine. Get a new boost control valve and your turbo lag will vanish. Over time it gets worse and worse so the replacement is a big surprise. Not very expensive. I installed the EVO version. 

Christian,

I love your reviews.  As Le said like a kid in the Christmas morning.  

As always awesome write up, thanks .

--
Happy Driving

Great review Christian, with right balance between objective and subjective point of view.

Thanks Christian for this complete and detailed review . It gives a very good idea of the car .

997 / 991  Carrera will now have something special ( NA engine )  , that will be appreciated more in the future. Good for that .  And good that the transition has been done properly.  Porsche is pretty good at that and I had no daought they would succeed .

Sports exhaust seem to be a must .........  The two demo cars at my dealer have both sports exhaust .

The shorter PDK paddles ( the movement ) seems to be like it is on the RS .

What about the '' boost function '' on the manetino ? Does it work well ? Is it useful ?

I don't specially like the new Macan back lights ... like you said, the older looked cleaner and actually better . Also not a fan of the vertical lines on the back lid . But these are details .

I am at the moment tired of PDK ...... and I would love to try this car with manual , but I am not too optimistic that the set up is suited to the car .  I would rather have a conventional gear box with 6 speeds .

 964 Carrera 4 /  997.2 C2 ,  -20mm /  991 GT3 RS 

Thanks RC!

@Gnil whaa..whaaa....whaaaat ? tired of pdk ? maybe we should start a petition to revive a 6-spd manual in a limited quantity and for serious buyers that are prepared to sign a contract with a "No Refund" policy, incase there's a change in plan because of a sudden leg cramp   That's what I agreed on when I ordered my Lambo and smiled, they thought I was shi**ing them or I was out of my mind to order a manual after 10 years of e-gear orders.

Leawood911:

  I noticed the gearing 84 mph at 6k rpm  - geared more like the GT3 than the Cayman or Boxter.

It's kph 

Thanks for the review, very interesting 

997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

Yes. I'm sorry I meant kph. Looks like it will barely hit 100 kph or 62 mph in second. In the Cayman Porsche hobbled it up getting to 80 mph + in second gear! Huge advantage for the 911 with a quick PDK. The Cayman really has to work hard to finish off second gear.  No wonder the car jumps off the line and seemed fast. The turbo S has to work a bit harder in each gear as well which is why RC felt like it was going fast but with little actual speed. 

Porsche spends a lot of time with power torque and gears ratios to keep the model lines in their place. Sometimes it is too artificial. They concern themselves not just with the current line up but also about four years back. Am I the only one?  Perhaps this is correct for marketing, stockholders and current owners of newer cars but it is frustrating to watch sometimes especially obvious stuff like Cayman gear ratios. 

I do like the value you get from the new cars. The base model has many more standard options like active suspension and lowered suspension bigger wheels not to mention lots more power and a chance to save fuel if you can stay on your 12 step boost addiction program.  I seriously doubt anyone here will get better mileage except in long road trips with cruise control. Else the boost will be way to tempting and in that case it will suck gas in a hurry. 

If the NA cars gain or keep their value these new cars will be great cheap two year old cars.  Not so certain about going all out on a fully spec'd out new S and two year old Turbo S prices. 

RC, thanks for the time and thought you put into this EXCELLENT , INSIGHTFUL review for us Rennteam insiders ..one which cannot be equaled by anyone anywhere , media included ! The simple reason for that is you are an enthusiast 911 owner with years of personal ownership of a wide performance range of its street  versions, even within the same generation . Insights so gleaned are impossible coming from the keyboards of the same flock of flown- in journalists  ( some I suspect who dont even own a personal car ) hurrriedly testing the latest piece of rubber and metal with their  brief alotted 60-90 minute time slots plus their 911 their frames of reference are not nearly as burned into their butts or memory banks as it is for you ...or us . 

It is interesting that you picked up on two of the 991.2's items noticed and commented to my friends by me when we saw the car from a coiple inches away and heard circling Laguna Seca Raceway at  Reunion Reunion V three months ago 

1)  

that the 991.2 will pretty much require the $$$ PSE option as " standard " equipment to sound like a real 911 ...I was right .  ( I have it , but even without it, the current 991.1 sounds just fine to pretty much everyone ) ...so then it is almost as if the cars MSRP is really $4k more across the line 

2)

although often picked on , I have always found the beautifully three dimensional wrap around trapezoidal DRL light fixture cluster of the 991.1 to be its most iconic exterior graphic  feature , with its different layers anchored by its beads of sparkling diamond- like facets .  It is an expensive looking bespoke piece appropriate for a $$$ car . I am sure it is NOT cheap to manufacture either . 

Also, its shape easily distnguishes the model as an approaching 911 in you rear view mirror .  The same function on the  991.2 has been taken over by a simple anonymous cigar-shaped piece of pure utility with no design thought that looks as if it were an off the shelf $1 insert sourced from some econobox supplier . I'm sure some entry level manufacturing -line bean counter at " new boss " VWAG is got a nice pat on his head from his boss for this unfortunate decision.  The result is that the 991.2 looks like a 981 from straight on .

I have been waiting for a description of that new torque curve - great paragraph within a very good review.

thanks for putting in the time for this admin side to the drive.

2013 Lotus Evora S/ 2008 Cayenne GTS Manual

2012 991 C2S -PDK / 2010 997.2 turbo cab manual, sold //2008 RS 60 sold /04 C4S sold - 08 Cayenne Turbo PDCC sold

Great report RC - many thanks..

"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

BiTurbo:

Thanks RC!

@Gnil whaa..whaaa....whaaaat ? tired of pdk ? maybe we should start a petition to revive a 6-spd manual in a limited quantity and for serious buyers that are prepared to sign a contract with a "No Refund" policy, incase there's a change in plan because of a sudden leg cramp   That's what I agreed on when I ordered my Lambo and smiled, they thought I was shi**ing them or I was out of my mind to order a manual after 10 years of e-gear orders.

I' m in 

 964 Carrera 4 /  997.2 C2 ,  -20mm /  991 GT3 RS 

JimFlat6:

Great report. As sometimes older people ( no offense meant) easily overlook small things, was there anything about the new 991.2  that your son thought was more fun or better than the 991.1.

I am 50, I am old  (not very old though ). My son liked the new acceleration feel, which is more spectacular. Everything else, he didn't care or he said it looks the same. Well, maybe the sound, the GTS sound is more aggressive but he didn't really comment on that, just that the GTS still sounds better.

Your review didn't exactly state a strong case to upgrade from a 991.1.  You get turbo whine without Turbo power, specd out you can get a non Turbo for amost a Turbo price, great. Porsche pricing formula trumps consumer logic again.

If I'd own a 991.1 Carrera S, an upgrade to the 991.2 Carrera S would be a no-brainer. The performance difference is substantial since the new facelifted 991.2 Carrera S is supposed to be already almost a second faster from 0-200 kph than the GTS. However, the 991.1 Carrera S still has a n/a engine, the last one in the 911 Carrera and with PSE, it sound still a bit more aggressive than the 991.2 Carrera S. So upgrading from a 991.1 Carrera S to a 991.2 Carrera S is not a must but a nice upgrade. The new facelift is definitely not bad at all, Porsche did a pretty good job. If I compare them with BMW and their new M4/M3, I have to say that BMW either doesn't have a clue about how to create a nice exhaust sound or they just didn't care.  Especially comparing the current turbo charged 6-cyl. engine with that infamous V8 in the previous model.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

noone1:

This car makes even less sense now. At least the old one was NA. Now it's just a shittier Turbo. You can get a used Turbo S for $130-140K.

Here's the thing: The 991 Turbo sounds like crap compared to the new Carrera.  I would always choose the new Carrera over the 991.1 Turbo/Turbo S. Always.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Wonderbar:

Thanks RC, not only for your precise report, but your command of English.  While similar in its conclusions, you add  many helpful nuances.  

I know that my English isn't too good but this is very kind of you saying this.  

The new Carrera will sell well, and in the numbers that Porsche normally estimates for its facelift models--before the generation change.  And i agree that current 991 Carrera and GTS owners will still feel comfortable with their purchases.  

GTS owners will definitely feel very comfortable with their choice, no doubt about it. At least until the facelifted GTS shows up. I still think however that the last n/a Carrera with the most powerful engine, the GTS, will become a car people will look for on the used car market. Not so sure about the 991.1 Carrera (not-GTS) models though, especially if these cars don't have a PSE.

i think it will be very interesting to compare the 991.2 GTS model to yours, to see if Porsche will again achieve the GTS characteristics that are so appealing…., 

I will be difficult to make the facelifted GTS louder. Next year is the year of the new EU regulations for sound emissions. A sport exhaust system, OEM or third party system may not be louder that the stock system. It is going to be a challenge for Porsche. To be honest, I think the next GTS will sound like the current Carrera S with sport exhaust system but Porsche will add some more obvious design elements to create a visible difference to it's Carrera S peers.

My GTS is really borderline (my mechanic uses this word) loud, I just realized it yesterday when I was driving around a quiet country road. People were riding their bikes (it was sunny and around 11°C, pretty warm for Bavarian in winter time) and walking around with their kids, dogs and I received so many middle fingers/fists, verbal attacks (at red lights) and other pleasantries like never before.  I wasn't going fast, I shifted at around 4000 rpm though (which is a bit high I have to admit but I was driving with the top open and enjoyed the sound ) and the car sounded much faster than I actually was. Keep in mind this wasn't a neighborhood with people living in it but a deserted country road/country side with a few small villages in the "wilderness" of Bavaria. In summer time, there are generally much more noises, so people care less.

991.2 Carrera S owners will definitely enjoy the new "dampened" sound, even if it isn't really quiet. At least over here in Germany. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

CPA4S:

I have been waiting for a description of that new torque curve - great paragraph within a very good review.

thanks for putting in the time for this admin side to the drive.

For owners in speed limited countries, the new facelift will definitely add to the driving fun. It can be a curse though as well because people may be too fast too fast (if you get my point).  That "little 911 Turbo brother" feel is definitely Porsche did intentionally though, I am pretty sure about it.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

MKW:

RC, thanks for the time and thought you put into this EXCELLENT , INSIGHTFUL review for us Rennteam insiders ..one which cannot be equaled by anyone anywhere , media included ! The simple reason for that is you are an enthusiast 911 owner with years of personal ownership of a wide performance range of its street  versions, even within the same generation . Insights so gleaned are impossible coming from the keyboards of the same flock of flown- in journalists  ( some I suspect who dont even own a personal car ) hurrriedly testing the latest piece of rubber and metal with their  brief alotted 60-90 minute time slots plus their 911 their frames of reference are not nearly as burned into their butts or memory banks as it is for you ...or us . 

I agree and thanks. Yes, I think that most car journalists, no matter how talented, have a hard time explaining the differences or actually really noticing them. I have a buddy who is in the business and who already drove the 991.2 facelifted Carrera S with sport exhaust as well. He was amazed by the car, actually he even claimed that it sounds better than any 911 before. We just talked on the phone Saturday and argued quite long about my impressions and his impressions. Btw: He doesn't like the new PCM look and feel because it feels rudimentary but I know how bad (in the sense of outdated) the current PCM is and the new one definitely is a huge improvement. 

It is interesting that you picked up on two of the 991.2's items noticed and commented to my friends by me when we saw the car from a coiple inches away and heard circling Laguna Seca Raceway at  Reunion Reunion V three months ago 

1)  

that the 991.2 will pretty much require the $$$ PSE option as " standard " equipment to sound like a real 911 ...I was right .  ( I have it , but even without it, the current 991.1 sounds just fine to pretty much everyone ) ...so then it is almost as if the cars MSRP is really $4k more across the line 

I agree on that but Porsche apparently has the philosophy that people shouldn't pay for something they don't need or want. Or better said: Why not make money with options  and Porsche is very good with that. 

Actually, I am outraged about something else: Porsche treats PDK as an option but most cars (I'd say 80-90%) sell with PDK. So actually, Porsche should make manual an option and PDK should be standard. With 80-90% of the customers choosing PDK, you know why Porsche chose not to make it a standard option. 

2)

although often picked on , I have always found the beautifully three dimensional wrap around trapezoidal DRL light fixture cluster of the 991.1 to be its most iconic exterior graphic  feature , with its different layers anchored by its beads of sparkling diamond- like facets .  It is an expensive looking bespoke piece appropriate for a $$$ car . I am sure it is NOT cheap to manufacture either . 

Also, its shape easily distnguishes the model as an approaching 911 in you rear view mirror .  The same function on the  991.2 has been taken over by a simple anonymous cigar-shaped piece of pure utility with no design thought that looks as if it were an off the shelf $1 insert sourced from some econobox supplier . I'm sure some entry level manufacturing -line bean counter at " new boss " VWAG is got a nice pat on his head from his boss for this unfortunate decision.  The result is that the 991.2 looks like a 981 from straight on .

I agree with what you said, even if I'm not a big fan of the trapezoidal light/blinker fixture. I like the 991.2 Turbo/Turbo solution with that double light or something similar. However, I agree with you, the new Carrera front looks a little bit like a Boxster but the Boxster has different headlights and the facelifted Boxster is going to have LED lights similar to the Cayenne/Macan, so no confusion possible here.

Porsche tried to simplify the 991.2 design but I'm not very happy with the tail lights. They look nice but they kind of disturb the clean design of the 991.1. Actually, the design of the 991.2 is one thing I couldn't care less about, probably also the reason I didn't have that "must have" feel after driving the new facelift. Very nice product though and if both were available at the same time, GTS (old) and Carrera S (new), I don't know if I wouldn't have chosen the new Carrera S. It is the newer car with improved performance (especially if you count in AWS and the new PDCC setup) and the much better PCM system (this is actually quite important to me but not important enough to update from my GTS to the new facelift).

I think that Porsche did a great job on the new facelift but of course it isn't perfect. The front blinkers definitely should have looked a bit different. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Gnil:

Thanks Christian for this complete and detailed review . It gives a very good idea of the car .

997 / 991  Carrera will now have something special ( NA engine )  , that will be appreciated more in the future. Good for that .  And good that the transition has been done properly.  Porsche is pretty good at that and I had no daought they would succeed .

I was very skeptical, especially knowing the challenges and the "excuses" they found for the 991.1 Turbo S I owned. 

Sports exhaust seem to be a must .........  The two demo cars at my dealer have both sports exhaust .

Absolutely a must. Whoever gets a car without it must be nuts, also because of the resale value.

The shorter PDK paddles ( the movement ) seems to be like it is on the RS .

Similar but still a bit different. The paddles are basically operating like a micro switch but the RS is very close.

What about the '' boost function '' on the manetino ? Does it work well ? Is it useful ?

I have to admit that I don't have a clue what you are talking about. I haven't tried the individual functions (not enough time) and other than that, I haven't even studied the manual. Sorry. 

I don't specially like the new Macan back lights ... like you said, the older looked cleaner and actually better . Also not a fan of the vertical lines on the back lid . But these are details .

The Macan tail lights are nice but not really clean in their design. I'd rather have preferred some sort of "old" tail lights with that Macan 3D look. I think however that Porsche needed increase the interior surface of the "light reflector", so they can offer the long awaited tinted (black) tail lights. Just a wild guess though...

I am at the moment tired of PDK ...... and I would love to try this car with manual , but I am not too optimistic that the set up is suited to the car .  I would rather have a conventional gear box with 6 speeds .

 

Not sure I understand. I always shift my GTS manually, with very few exceptions. It is more fun and I can actually "control" the sound I produce with the exhaust. I would love shifting even more if my GTS had that "micro switch" feel in the paddles, this is something I really loved about the new facelift. I will look into it if an upgrade is possible for my car but probably not, at least not officially. The new paddles are basically buttons with the look of shorter paddles, maybe this is a better description of how they work. Nicely done but not everyone will like it. Manual shifting has a more "technical" feel now.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

RC:

What about the '' boost function '' on the manetino ? Does it work well ? Is it useful ?

I have to admit that I don't have a clue what you are talking about. I haven't tried the individual functions (not enough time) and other than that, I haven't even studied the manual. Sorry. 

 

I read on the new brochure that there is a 20 or 40 sec boost function that you can activate on the ' manetino ' ( if I am not mistaking )  During that lap of time every engine function is optimized .

 964 Carrera 4 /  997.2 C2 ,  -20mm /  991 GT3 RS 

Does the switch remember it's last setting when restarting the car? (i.e. can you have it default to sport mode after a restart or do you always have to select this after starting the engine)

991 Carrera Black\Black, XC90 Black\Black, 120 Cab Black\Coral Red - 2 kids, 1 dog

Gnil:

RC:

What about the '' boost function '' on the manetino ? Does it work well ? Is it useful ?

I have to admit that I don't have a clue what you are talking about. I haven't tried the individual functions (not enough time) and other than that, I haven't even studied the manual. Sorry. 

 

I read on the new brochure that there is a 20 or 40 sec boost function that you can activate on the ' manetino ' ( if I am not mistaking )  During that lap of time every engine function is optimized .

Interesting, I will check on that. I thought the overboost is part of the Sport/Sport+ setting? 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

bridggar:

Does the switch remember it's last setting when restarting the car? (i.e. can you have it default to sport mode after a restart or do you always have to select this after starting the engine)

Interesting question but I haven't tried it. However, it is safe to assume that the last setting isn't memorized. For legal reasons. Actually I do not know any car manufacturer where the last setting of the ESP/traction control system is memorized but I may be wrong.

Car manufacturers usually "adapt" such things to the "industry standard" (what most car manufacturers are using, so they do not get sued because they did it differently, no kidding), same goes to the launch control for example. If the launch control is too easy to use, it may put the driver in danger, so there is that brake holding thing and so on...
--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

What a nice review!  Thanks for sharing those first-hand impressions.

There's just one thing I'm struggling with:

RC:
If I'd own a 991.1 Carrera S, an upgrade to the 991.2 Carrera S would be a no-brainer. ...

... So upgrading from a 991.1 Carrera S to a 991.2 Carrera S is not a must but a nice upgrade. ...

987er:

What a nice review!  Thanks for sharing those first-hand impressions.

There's just one thing I'm struggling with:

RC:
If I'd own a 991.1 Carrera S, an upgrade to the 991.2 Carrera S would be a no-brainer. ...

... So upgrading from a 991.1 Carrera S to a 991.2 Carrera S is not a must but a nice upgrade. ...

Not a must but a nice upgrade...not confusing at all.  Anyway, sorry for the confusion. 

A no-brainer doesn't necessarily imply that this upgrade is a must. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

My bet is that the new base 991.2 /w PSE is the best choice.  My personal no brainer, so to say.

Great review RC. Except you have never shifted your GTS manually. It has no clutch. You pushed the buttons. 

987er:

My bet is that the new base 991.2 /w PSE is the best choice.  My personal no brainer, so to say.

If Porsche doesn't change the sound, you could be right. However, 50 hp difference could be a lot. I test-drove the Macan S and the Macan Turbo back to back and the Macan S was nice in the city but once you hit over 150 kph, it was not even close to the Macan Turbo.

Just for fun, I configured a base Carrera with the sportiest options, incl. PDK and PCCB but also Burmester (sorry but everything else sounds like crap). No leather options, only the carbon package. 4-way sport seats plus, nothing fancy. Black painted (satin) 20'' rims. Price tag? 130k EUR. Without PCCB and Burmester, 118k EUR. Almost acceptable. Almost.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)