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    Jul 22, 2005 12:21:29 PM

    MMD
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    How Many Odometer Miles Make Your New Car Undeliverable?

    I'm wondering if the sales staff will be tempted to take my brand new, soon-to-arrive S for a joy ride. Since there have been no Ss around for a long time I'm sure people are chomping at the bit to "test drive" (read: beat the sh*t out of it) to see small S performance difference.


    How many miles did your new 997/S come with?

    How many miles would be too many for you to accept the car without being totaly pi**ed?

    I'm going to be emphatic to the dealer about the unacceptability of extra mileage. How many odo miles are acceptable?

    Even though the car can probably take it, I don't want any monkeys gearjamming and redlining it while the engine is still "cold."

    Thanks.

    Jul 22, 2005 12:30:22 PM

    sertag
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: How Many Odometer Miles Make Your New Car Undeliverable?

    MMD,

    when i took delivery of my 997S it had 41km.
    i asked the sales guy about it and he told me that they were do for test drives at the porsche factory when car was built.
    but 41 km is a bit too much and i got p*** off
    so i understand what you mean.

    Jul 22, 2005 1:04:17 PM

    69bossnine
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    Reply to: sertag

    Re: How Many Odometer Miles Make Your New Car Undeliverable?

    Whether or not your car gets test-driven by the factory is a matter of random probability that you have zero control over. However, you have PLENTY of control over determining whether or not your dealer has "played" with your car prior to delivering it to you. When the transport company delivers your car to the dealer, they should note mileage and make a damage inspection PRIOR to the dealer signing-off on receipt of the car. It's all part of a delivery-inspection form that the transport companies use to document the status of the car upon delivery, exonerate themselves from any damage or wrongdoing, and to turn over all responsibility of the car to the dealer. It's no different than when you sign a bill of lading for a shipment, and the fine print says "signature confirms that all goods are received complete and in proper condition, unless otherwise noted", thus releasing the carrier from further claim. ANYHOW, I'm pretty certain that the carrier documents mileage on their release form. So all you need to do is make it clear that you do not want your car driven anywhere except into the shop (they are required to accomplish a pre-delivery inspection and preparation), and to the detail area, before pulling it up front for you. In other words, there shouldn't be more than a half mile of piddling around the dealer's grounds. Also, insist on seeing the release paperwork from the transport carrier, so that you can confirm that the mileage at the time the transporter dropped it and the mileage at the time you receive the car is appropriate.

    Jul 22, 2005 1:53:53 PM

    lenny k
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: How Many Odometer Miles Make Your New Car Undeliverable?

    Picked my 997 cab up last evening. It had 6 miles on the odometer.

    Jul 22, 2005 1:56:03 PM

    mcdelaug
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    Reply to: lenny k

    Re: How Many Odometer Miles Make Your New Car Undeliverable?

    I had just under 9 miles on the odo at delivery.

    mcdelaug

    Jul 22, 2005 2:12:42 PM

    Mike S
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    Reply to: mcdelaug

    Re: How Many Odometer Miles Make Your New Car Undeliverable?

    mine had 14 km's which is around 9 miles, i would say 50km's/30miles or more is totally unacceptable

    Jul 22, 2005 2:23:32 PM

    PS CA Offline
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: How Many Odometer Miles Make Your New Car Undeliverable?

    Mine had 20 miles on it. My dealership will not allow anyone to drive sold cars. The only cars they will allow for test drives are unsold stock.

    Phil

    Jul 22, 2005 2:37:01 PM

    Fred 993C4S
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    Reply to: PS CA

    Re: How Many Odometer Miles Make Your New Car Undeliverable?

    I don't think this should be a concern. I think most P-car salespeople have driven lots of very interesting cars (CGT) and aren't likely to go joyriding on a vehicle that comes in against a customer's order. Porsche, I believe, ramdomly pulls a few cars out and does some street test driving but most cars have around 6 miles at delivery. I would be more concerned if I was buying an off-the lot car with lot car with a few hundred miles on it but in general these cars are sold as dealer demos; the P-car sales people aren't dumb and realize that customers for these cars are picky and want a "virgin".

    Jul 22, 2005 2:44:20 PM

    SVNSVN
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    Reply to: 69bossnine

    Re: How Many Odometer Miles Make Your New Car Undeliverable?

    Very good to know- thanks 69bossnine.

    Jul 22, 2005 6:17:32 PM

    Damian
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    Re: How Many Odometer Miles Make Your New Car Undeliverable?

    The factory does select at random for test drives; but even a test driven version should arrive with no more than 25 or 30 miles.

    MMD, here is a good cross-section of 997 delivery miles (you may have seen this already):

    Click this: 997 OWNERS' ODOMETER READING AT DELIVERY....

    Jul 22, 2005 6:28:13 PM

    PS CA Offline
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    Reply to: 69bossnine

    Re: How Many Odometer Miles Make Your New Car Undeliverable?

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    So all you need to do is make it clear that you do not want your car driven anywhere except into the shop (they are required to accomplish a pre-delivery inspection and preparation), and to the detail area, before pulling it up front for you. In other words, there shouldn't be more than a half mile of piddling around the dealer's grounds.



    According to pyroproblem @ rennlist who is apparently a Porsche Tech at a dealership:

    "We receive our new vehicles usually between 5-15 miles. After our PDI(pre-delivery inspection) they typically have about 15 additional miles that we(technicians) put on them during the roadtest. This may differ dealer to dealer because of the normal "test route" we take. Occasionally we'll get one with a wheel balance problem or an alignment out of spec which will require another test drive after the repair is completed."

    His words, not mine.

    Phil

    Jul 22, 2005 6:43:15 PM

    MMD
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    Reply to: Damian

    Re: How Many Odometer Miles Make Your New Car Undeliverable?

    Quote:
    Damian said:
    The factory does select at random for test drives; but even a test driven version should arrive with no more than 25 or 30 miles.

    MMD, here is a good cross-section of 997 delivery miles (you may have seen this already):

    Click this: 997 OWNERS' ODOMETER READING AT DELIVERY....



    Great! yeah that's it. Good to review this tiny but significant detail for all of us soon to be getting our 06 cars. Thanks for finding and posting the link Damian.

    Jul 22, 2005 6:49:01 PM

    MMD
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    Reply to: Damian

    No more test track testing on the test track at Porsche?

    These 997 mileages are strange because ALL 996s and 986s supposedly got 50 and 30 mile track tests (respectively) around the Porsche test track in Germany and Finland before being released. I heard this and I remember reading it in an actual Porsche publication.

    I'm pretty sure I'm correct. What's changed with 997s coming in with 6-8 miles on them?

    Jul 22, 2005 6:55:23 PM

    vtach88
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: No more test track testing on the test track at Porsche?

    7 miles on my ODO. I then put on 7 more with my salesman present to check out the goods....

    Jul 22, 2005 7:08:20 PM

    MMD
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    Reply to: vtach88

    Re: No more test track testing on the test track at Porsche?

    Quote:
    vtach88 said:
    7 miles on my ODO. I then put on 7 more with my salesman present to check out the goods....



    Good thing you didn't over-rev the car and generally abuse it in the sales guy's presence. I hear Porsche has recruited sales guys to be spies (plural of spy?) for them; the sales guy can revoke your warrenty if they witness abuse at delivery!

    Oh..., wait..., sorry..., I was taking a nap and that was a little nightmare I just had.

    Jul 22, 2005 7:15:15 PM

    69bossnine
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: No more test track testing on the test track at Porsche?

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    These 997 mileages are strange because ALL 996s and 986s supposedly got 50 and 30 mile track tests (respectively) around the Porsche test track in Germany and Finland before being released. I heard this and I remember reading it in an actual Porsche publication.

    I'm pretty sure I'm correct. What's changed with 997s coming in with 6-8 miles on them?




    That's urban legend. ALL 997's are NOT test-driven at the factory, just a random sampling. My 997 showed up with 6 miles on it.

    Jul 22, 2005 7:17:14 PM

    PS CA Offline
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    Reply to: Damian

    Re: How Many Odometer Miles Make Your New Car Undeliverable?

    Quote:
    Damian said:
    The factory does select at random for test drives; but even a test driven version should arrive with no more than 25 or 30 miles.

    MMD, here is a good cross-section of 997 delivery miles (you may have seen this already):


    Click this: 997 OWNERS' ODOMETER READING AT DELIVERY....



    I took the average of the 29 owners who reported their mileage on rennlist and it came out to 26 miles . There was a low of 6 miles and a high of 70 miles.

    Phil

    Jul 22, 2005 7:47:25 PM

    tooner
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    Reply to: PS CA

    Re: How Many Odometer Miles Make Your New Car Undeliverable?

    6 Miles when I got mine...

    this threads a scarry reminder that you just never know about cars these days even from a top end car to the low end car.

    Jul 22, 2005 8:15:32 PM

    rv997 Offline
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    Reply to: tooner

    Re: How Many Odometer Miles Make Your New Car Undeliverable?

    5Km when I got mine
    but 100km when I got my M5, and when the dealer's boss told me he took it himself for a ride, I maybe guess why I had to fill it with 1l oil per 100Okm...

    Jul 22, 2005 8:38:00 PM

    fritz
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    Reply to: 69bossnine

    Re: No more test track testing on the test track at Porsche?

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    Quote:
    MMD said:
    These 997 mileages are strange because ALL 996s and 986s supposedly got 50 and 30 mile track tests (respectively) around the Porsche test track in Germany and Finland before being released. I heard this and I remember reading it in an actual Porsche publication.

    I'm pretty sure I'm correct. What's changed with 997s coming in with 6-8 miles on them?




    That's urban legend. ALL 997's are NOT test-driven at the factory, just a random sampling. My 997 showed up with 6 miles on it.



    It's legend because it used to be the truth.
    Have taken delivery of enough brand-new Porsche's to know that they used to come with a delivery mileage of about 30 km / 20 miles. Occasionally a car had maybe 50 km on the clock, meaning they found something first time around, fixed it, and took the car around the block again.

    The cars were tested on public roads, not a test track! There is no test track at the Zuffenhausen factory. Anybody who has picked up his car from the factory, done a factory tour, visited the Porsche museum, or - best of all - done all three things at once, will tell you that you used to see a constant stream of new cars leaving the factory gate for a road test before they were signed off for delivery.

    Some ppl have been bitching above about their high delivery milages. I used to find it reassuring that the cars were road tested, and that they took the trouble to repeat the test if they found the need to fix something.

    While some ppl may be pleased to see their cars delivered with very low milages due to a random sampling system being introduced, I shall not be complaining if my 997 comes with 30 km on the clock.

    Jul 22, 2005 9:01:31 PM

    SVNSVN
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    Reply to: fritz

    Re: No more test track testing on the test track at Porsche?

    fritz,

    Hopefully that'll be an advantage of picking my car up at the factory- taking care of problems quickly.

    Jul 22, 2005 11:19:10 PM

    ewi
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: How Many Odometer Miles Make Your New Car Undeliverable?

    In the German version of the warranty & service booklet the delivery date and km are written down on page 4. In my case the 6km on the odometer were consistent with the 6km noted in the booklet. I assume that this is filled out by the dealer right prior delivery and therefore, should always be consistent. But if someone else took the car for a ride after that, you will be able to tell.

    Jul 23, 2005 12:04:26 PM

    cartouche
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    Reply to: fritz

    Re: No more test track testing on the test track at Porsche?

    30 km when I got mine.

    Jul 25, 2005 1:08:06 AM

    W8MM
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    Reply to: PS CA

    Re: How Many Odometer Miles Make Your New Car Undeliverable?

    Quote:
    PS CA said:I took the average of the 29 owners who reported their mileage on rennlist and it came out to 26 miles . There was a low of 6 miles and a high of 70 miles.



    Not to worry!

    My CGT had 49.7 miles on it when it rolled off the InterCity Lines transporter at the dealership.

    Jul 25, 2005 1:30:35 AM

    Moogle
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    Reply to: W8MM

    Re: How Many Odometer Miles Make Your New Car Undeliverable?

    a few miles is normal, but anything over 100 would be really something to worry about

    particularly if your car was the first of a type to arrive, it is likely it was taken for a joyride by the dealer principal or other...

    Jul 25, 2005 12:18:56 PM

    s4to911
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    Reply to: Moogle

    Re: How Many Odometer Miles Make Your New Car Undeliverable?

    In Pennsylvania, the number of miles a car has when received at the dealership is recorded on the back of the inspection sticker in the window. The dealer also has to provide an odometer disclosure at sale. My 911 S Cab was received by the dealer on 5/24/05 with 25 miles. I bought it on 6/13/05 with 109 miles. Yes, someone was driving it for 84 miles before I bought it. I test drove another S Cab in the weeks prior to this purchase for about 20-30 miles, so I know people have to test drive these cars. So far, at 1950 miles, I have had no problems.

    Jul 25, 2005 1:42:55 PM

    69bossnine
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    Reply to: s4to911

    Re: How Many Odometer Miles Make Your New Car Undeliverable?

    All this worrying about dealership salespeople and management taking "joy rides" seems a bit paranoid. Not that it doesn't happen, but it's not likely, and it's not the end of the world even if they did go for a spin. They work there full-time. Surrounded by Porsches all day. They take customer's for test drives in 997's all day. They get to go to driving clinics and drive the daylights out of 997's as a part of their job. They get to drive these types of cars EVERY DAY, it's no big whoopity-do to them. They don't see a new 997 rolling out of the truck, and go "holy crap, I've gotta drive that one!!". Why would they risk getting a stone chip on a customer's freshly delivered "S", when they've already logged hundreds of miles of seat time wringing out the dealer's demo "S"? It's not as if your 997 is going to drive much different, as a magical result of your specific option and color choices. My only worry would be in the event that my car represented the FIRST of something special to hit the floor at that dealer. THEN, you may have something worth worrying about. Like if you've got the 1st X51 that will land there. The fellas will likely be anxious to check out if there's really all that much difference. Or if I had the first Turbo to land, or the first C4S. But that rarely happens. Usually the FIRST car is the dealer's demo and display car, and your car that they allowed you to pre-order is one notch down the list from that. Anyhow, it's no big deal either way. When you're up to 20,000 or 30,000 miles on your 997, the first 50 or 100 miles won't mean a damn thing, whether you did the driving, or a Porsche employee did. It's a car.

    Jul 25, 2005 2:04:50 PM

    throt
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    Reply to: 69bossnine

    Re: How Many Odometer Miles Make Your New Car Undeliverable?

    69 Agree and not agree ..

    So here in the UK a 997s with -20mm , PSE and x51 would surely be rare and a tempter to P employees to have a go in , to which they have no right ..

    Good points because this should be my spec and I for one will have words to let them know that I will be checking the clock..

    Its your big day on pick up and your vehicle..

    JMHO..throt..

    Jul 25, 2005 2:32:24 PM

    OCEAN
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    Reply to: throt

    Re: How Many Odometer Miles Make Your New Car Undeliverable?

    69bossnine seems funny you should be telling people not to worry ... you seem to be the kind of person who would flip if it happened to you but yet you are telling others it is not so bad if it happened to them .

    Jul 25, 2005 3:04:29 PM

    SoCal Alan
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    Reply to: 69bossnine

    Re: How Many Odometer Miles Make Your New Car Undeliverable?

    I made sure to tell my dealer not to let anyone take my new 997S for a test drive. They said absolutely not would they let anyone take a customer ordered car for a test drive.

    But my concern was if there was a customer who really wanted to buy a 997 and saw my new 997 ready to go and it happens to be the only 997 on the dealer floor. I think it's pretty tempting to take the customer out for a testdrive, especially if it means a sale.
     
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