Crown

Leawood911:

Great review RC. Except you have never shifted your GTS manually. It has no clutch. You pushed the buttons. 

This is called manual shifting and PDK is not Tiptronic. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

RC:

Gnil:

Thanks Christian for this complete and detailed review . It gives a very good idea of the car .

997 / 991  Carrera will now have something special ( NA engine )  , that will be appreciated more in the future. Good for that .  And good that the transition has been done properly.  Porsche is pretty good at that and I had no daought they would succeed .

I was very skeptical, especially knowing the challenges and the "excuses" they found for the 991.1 Turbo S I owned. 

Sports exhaust seem to be a must .........  The two demo cars at my dealer have both sports exhaust .

Absolutely a must. Whoever gets a car without it must be nuts, also because of the resale value.

The shorter PDK paddles ( the movement ) seems to be like it is on the RS .

Similar but still a bit different. The paddles are basically operating like a micro switch but the RS is very close.

What about the '' boost function '' on the manetino ? Does it work well ? Is it useful ?

I have to admit that I don't have a clue what you are talking about. I haven't tried the individual functions (not enough time) and other than that, I haven't even studied the manual. Sorry. 

I don't specially like the new Macan back lights ... like you said, the older looked cleaner and actually better . Also not a fan of the vertical lines on the back lid . But these are details .

The Macan tail lights are nice but not really clean in their design. I'd rather have preferred some sort of "old" tail lights with that Macan 3D look. I think however that Porsche needed increase the interior surface of the "light reflector", so they can offer the long awaited tinted (black) tail lights. Just a wild guess though...

I am at the moment tired of PDK ...... and I would love to try this car with manual , but I am not too optimistic that the set up is suited to the car .  I would rather have a conventional gear box with 6 speeds .

 

Not sure I understand. I always shift my GTS manually, with very few exceptions. It is more fun and I can actually "control" the sound I produce with the exhaust. I would love shifting even more if my GTS had that "micro switch" feel in the paddles, this is something I really loved about the new facelift. I will look into it if an upgrade is possible for my car but probably not, at least not officially. The new paddles are basically buttons with the look of shorter paddles, maybe this is a better description of how they work. Nicely done but not everyone will like it. Manual shifting has a more "technical" feel now.

"""My GTS is really borderline (my mechanic uses this word) loud, I just realized it yesterday when I was driving around a quiet country road. People were riding their bikes (it was sunny and around 11°C, pretty warm for Bavarian in winter time) and walking around with their kids, dogs and I received so many middle fingers/fists, verbal attacks (at red lights) and other pleasantries like never before.  I wasn't going fast,""""

I just can't believe this is going on in Germany!!!! They must be proud of Porsche.

MKW:

RC, thanks for the time and thought you put into this EXCELLENT , INSIGHTFUL review for us Rennteam insiders ..one which cannot be equaled by anyone anywhere , media included ! The simple reason for that is you are an enthusiast 911 owner with years of personal ownership of a wide performance range of its street  versions, even within the same generation . Insights so gleaned are impossible coming from the keyboards of the same flock of flown- in journalists  ( some I suspect who dont even own a personal car ) hurrriedly testing the latest piece of rubber and metal with their  brief alotted 60-90 minute time slots plus their 911 their frames of reference are not nearly as burned into their butts or memory banks as it is for you ...or us . 

It is interesting that you picked up on two of the 991.2's items noticed and commented to my friends by me when we saw the car from a coiple inches away and heard circling Laguna Seca Raceway at  Reunion Reunion V three months ago 

1)  

that the 991.2 will pretty much require the $$$ PSE option as " standard " equipment to sound like a real 911 ...I was right .  ( I have it , but even without it, the current 991.1 sounds just fine to pretty much everyone ) ...so then it is almost as if the cars MSRP is really $4k more across the line 

2)

although often picked on , I have always found the beautifully three dimensional wrap around trapezoidal DRL light fixture cluster of the 991.1 to be its most iconic exterior graphic  feature , with its different layers anchored by its beads of sparkling diamond- like facets .  It is an expensive looking bespoke piece appropriate for a $$$ car . I am sure it is NOT cheap to manufacture either . 

Also, its shape easily distnguishes the model as an approaching 911 in you rear view mirror .  The same function on the  991.2 has been taken over by a simple anonymous cigar-shaped piece of pure utility with no design thought that looks as if it were an off the shelf $1 insert sourced from some econobox supplier . I'm sure some entry level manufacturing -line bean counter at " new boss " VWAG is got a nice pat on his head from his boss for this unfortunate decision.  The result is that the 991.2 looks like a 981 from straight on .

 

Totally agree the front led light is a huge mistake .....they look like 981.  I just can't believe it.

I was meeting a 991.2 front on yesterday in Holland. Only seeing afterwards in my mirror it was a 991.2.  ppffffff

RC:

987er:

My bet is that the new base 991.2 /w PSE is the best choice.  My personal no brainer, so to say.

If Porsche doesn't change the sound, you could be right. However, 50 hp difference could be a lot. I test-drove the Macan S and the Macan Turbo back to back and the Macan S was nice in the city but once you hit over 150 kph, it was not even close to the Macan Turbo.

Just for fun, I configured a base Carrera with the sportiest options, incl. PDK and PCCB but also Burmester (sorry but everything else sounds like crap). No leather options, only the carbon package. 4-way sport seats plus, nothing fancy. Black painted (satin) 20'' rims. Price tag? 130k EUR. Without PCCB and Burmester, 118k EUR. Almost acceptable. Almost.

Why not Carrera S? Also, what level of discounts should we expect in the near future?

Dealers should give 6% discount, unless you trade with Beverly Hills in LA...

RC:

Leawood911:

Great review RC. Except you have never shifted your GTS manually. It has no clutch. You pushed the buttons. 

This is called manual shifting and PDK is not Tiptronic. 

This is what you call manual shifting.  Some will never call it that unless you are using a clutch with your FOOT. 

Well, there's manual shifting, and then, there's shifting a manual.

Sorry RC. Back to your awesome topic. I will accept any for of manual shifting in the spirit of unity and never mention it again. 

I'm curious how quickly a 4wd 991.2 will get to 100 Mph  with launch control.   Important US Stat and should be quick with pdk 

Leawood911:

Sorry RC. Back to your awesome topic. I will accept any for of manual shifting in the spirit of unity and never mention it again. 

Even most sophisticated sequential shifting systems used in F1 and other racing series are not having driver operated clutches during shifting/driving. While technically, even PDK (DCT) is considered to be an automatic transmission, you cannot compare it to Tiptronic for various reasons. It is fun to shift manually with PDK, not so much fun with Tiptronic (and I remember it well from my 997 Turbo).

I'm curious how quickly a 4wd 991.2 will get to 100 Mph  with launch control.   Important US Stat and should be quick with pdk 

991.2 Carrera S 0-100 mph in 8.2 seconds.

991.2 Carrera 4S 0-100 mph in 8.0 seconds flat.

Interesting comparison: 991.1 GT3 0-100 mph in 7.5 seconds.

Another interesting comparison: Cayman GT4 0-100 mph in 9.3 seconds.

Last comparison: New 991.2 Turbo Cabriolet 0-100 mph in 7.1 seconds.

All numbers are manufacturer claims but anyway, the new 991.2 Carrera 4S is pretty quick.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

wantone:

RC:

987er:

My bet is that the new base 991.2 /w PSE is the best choice.  My personal no brainer, so to say.

If Porsche doesn't change the sound, you could be right. However, 50 hp difference could be a lot. I test-drove the Macan S and the Macan Turbo back to back and the Macan S was nice in the city but once you hit over 150 kph, it was not even close to the Macan Turbo.

Just for fun, I configured a base Carrera with the sportiest options, incl. PDK and PCCB but also Burmester (sorry but everything else sounds like crap). No leather options, only the carbon package. 4-way sport seats plus, nothing fancy. Black painted (satin) 20'' rims. Price tag? 130k EUR. Without PCCB and Burmester, 118k EUR. Almost acceptable. Almost.

Why not Carrera S? Also, what level of discounts should we expect in the near future?

Carrera S base price is 14k EUR more (vs. Carrera). You would be surprised how many customers really care about this price difference. Also, Carrera is only one second slower from 0-100 mph (160 kph) than the Carrera S and from 0-200 kph (125 mph), the new Carrera is basically as fast as the "old" 991.1 Carrera S. Quite impressive.

I still would choose the Carrera S though  but for those who are looking for a nice and "affordable" 911 with less options, the Carrera base model is quite a good choice if you don't go wild on the options. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Beautiful review Christian, thanks so much for taking the time to express your experiences. 

Are there any pictures of the new cars with the standard exhausts at all? All I see is the ungainly Audi TT exhausts...

Joost:

Beautiful review Christian, thanks so much for taking the time to express your experiences. 

Are there any pictures of the new cars with the standard exhausts at all? All I see is the ungainly Audi TT exhausts...

I have to admit that the exhaust pipes look a bit TT-like but Porsche probably wanted to avoid to get too close to the GT3 look, which is understandable but maybe they could have used a different solution.  Not that I really care, the car looks really good (still preferring the "old" look though).

Actually, I think that the facelift looks better on the Turbo/Turbo S models.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Hi RC - thanks for the excellent review. Loved the read! Finally a test review I can rely on. And you talked about all the doubts and hopes I had for this car - so thanks a bunch for doing all the work giving this extensive write up! 

I loved what you are saying about the sound. I think I have to give a shot and test ride one. I love the fact that it is a "911" with all the attitude we got addicted to. Regarding the speed and power - amazing that it feels more spectacular than the previous one. And one other point I was hoping for. The 991.1 was feeling like not having enough power, or saying - not giving enough emotions. So it sounds like they corrected this. 

Putting it in compare that my 991.1 was an S and you are comparing to your GTS - then I think that the new 991.2S seems to be a great package an huge add-on. Nevertheless I guess I have to wait for the new GTS before making a jump to an 991 again.

Once again - thanks for the work! 

My pleasure, Lars.  Btw: I have a feeling that you are going to like the new 991.2 Carrera S much more than your "old" car. The next GTS could be a perfect opportunity (get a cab though, so much fun driving with an open top and enjoying the sound... ).

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

I am on a budget, so I am considering a base Carrera with sport exhaust, parking sensors, manual and thats it. Guess it will de difficult to test drive a manual Carrera.

But the most amazing fact is that such a combination will not be dramatically more expensive than a used 991.1. This is what makes me wonder about the latest one.

1992 964 Carrera 2 - 2014 Mercedes A45 AMG - 2013 Mini Cooper S

Mikla:

I am on a budget, so I am considering a base Carrera with sport exhaust, parking sensors, manual and thats it. Guess it will de difficult to test drive a manual Carrera.

But the most amazing fact is that such a combination will not be dramatically more expensive than a used 991.1. This is what makes me wonder about the latest one.

I would test-drive a manual 991.2 Carrera before buying one. PDK has been deeply "integrated" into the car's driving dynamics setups and I'm not so sure manual is the best choice with the new turbo charged engine. Performance-wise, you are going to give away a lot(!). Just an example: From 0-100 mph (160 kph), the manual version needs 9.8 seconds, the PDK with Sport Chrono only 9.2 seconds. This is on paper. Due to the deep integration of the traction control systems/PSM/etc., the PDK will be highly efficient under almost all driving conditions. To achieve the number I posted (9.8), you need a very sensitive throttle and clutch foot.  Just saying...it is your choice.

Also, Sport Chrono offers lots of PDK specific performance enhancements which are not available for manual.

Basically, the manual is actually the worst performance choice for the new Carrera since it lacks many of the interesting performance enhancing options.

Last but not least, the Carrera S performance options are much more interesting, with PDCC and 20 mm PASM and AWS.

This is your choice of course but you need to be careful what you choose. The base Carrera model with manual is not a good choice in my opinion. 

Regarding 991.1 prices: Wait until people start to calm down about the switch to turbo engines. Then, 991.1 prices may drop further.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Turbocharged engines can be made to synchronize better with conventional automatics and dual clutch transmissions but by many reports Porsche has really improved the 7spd manual. So you might lose a bit of acceleration compared to pdk  but the car is so quick anyway even with the manual that it might not matter in normal non track driving.  Even side by side racing to vmax the  pdk likely be only a couple.of.car.lengths ahead maybe but not a.speck in the distance.

JimFlat6:

Turbocharged engines can be made to synchronize better with conventional automatics and dual clutch transmissions but by many reports Porsche has really improved the 7spd manual. So you might lose a bit of acceleration compared to pdk  but the car is so quick anyway even with the manual that it might not matter in normal non track driving.  Even side by side racing to vmax the  pdk likely be only a couple.of.car.lengths ahead maybe but not a.speck in the distance.

This is why I recommended to test-drive a manual vs. PDK. However, manual is a dead horse, simply because it is also easier to achieve the coming stricter CO2 emissions limitations with PDK. I didn't hear anything (new) positive about the 7 speed in the 991.2, they simply (well, not that simple) adapted it to the higher torque and other "oddities" of the turbo charged engine. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

RC:

JimFlat6:

Turbocharged engines can be made to synchronize better with conventional automatics and dual clutch transmissions but by many reports Porsche has really improved the 7spd manual. So you might lose a bit of acceleration compared to pdk  but the car is so quick anyway even with the manual that it might not matter in normal non track driving.  Even side by side racing to vmax the  pdk likely be only a couple.of.car.lengths ahead maybe but not a.speck in the distance.

This is why I recommended to test-drive a manual vs. PDK. However, manual is a dead horse, simply because it is also easier to achieve the coming stricter CO2 emissions limitations with PDK. I didn't hear anything (new) positive about the 7 speed in the 991.2, they simply (well, not that simple) adapted it to the higher torque and other "oddities" of the turbo charged engine. 

I think the Manual and PDK share identical ratios for the first time and maybe the spacing of the gates and tweeking of the mechanical mapping (weird PDK pattern to Double-H pattern) has been improved (it was said to have been improved for the 991.1 GTS).

The biggest performance advantage for PDK on a turbocharged car is the ability to keep the throttle to the floor during seamless upshifts, so there is no significant loss of boost pressure (as there always is when lifting to shift in a manual car.

I would still choose manual for myself (especially since you save some money doing this), but the choice is more difficult with a turbo motor.  I think it's possible that this will be a resale benefit if one keeps the car a long time (after the death of manual).  If you look at the last few model years of manual Ferraris, they are worth MUCH more than F1 examples.  Manual 911's are much more rare than PDK examples these days...

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16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

manuals are sporty but I don't think they pair well with modern turbocharged sports cars when one wants continuous full boost , when pressing on , for acceleration joy rides to see if the  " base 991.2 is as fast to 100 mph as a  991.1S" statements we are reading about can be verified on an open rural road or runway

Manual is obsolete. Yes it can be fun but with all the electronics in today's world it is outdated (bear in mind I still own two manual cars).

The reason manual Ferraris have a big premium is for two main reasons that don't necessarily apply to Porsche:

1) they are very rare (200 in the world for 612 and even way less for the 599)

2) Ferrari stopped making manuals in 2007

The Cadillac twin turbo atsV with manual has a tech bit that allows for no throttle  lift shifting. So if gm can figure it out maybe porsche should also.  Seems like it would be a no brainer for Porsches engineering talent.

Excellent write-up, RC! Thank you very much for your effort. 

SciFrog:

Manual is obsolete. Yes it can be fun but with all the electronics in today's world it is outdated (bear in mind I still own two manual cars).

The reason manual Ferraris have a big premium is for two main reasons that don't necessarily apply to Porsche:

1) they are very rare (200 in the world for 612 and even way less for the 599)

2) Ferrari stopped making manuals in 2007

1.) Manual 991.2 cars will be very rare compared to PDK

2.) Porsche could discontinue the Manual in fewer than 3 years (at the end of 991.2 production)

16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Grant:

SciFrog:

Manual is obsolete. Yes it can be fun but with all the electronics in today's world it is outdated (bear in mind I still own two manual cars).

The reason manual Ferraris have a big premium is for two main reasons that don't necessarily apply to Porsche:

1) they are very rare (200 in the world for 612 and even way less for the 599)

2) Ferrari stopped making manuals in 2007

1.) Manual 991.2 cars will be very rare compared to PDK

2.) Porsche could discontinue the Manual in fewer than 3 years (at the end of 991.2 production)

1) several thousands does not make it rare

2) they could yet they might still do small production runs like the GT4 or rumored 911R...

SciFrog:

1) several thousands does not make it rare

2) they could yet they might still do small production runs like the GT4 or rumored 911R...

1.) I don't necessarily think there will be several thousands

2.) There were 1,581 1973 Carrera RS's made (more than regular 1973 911S).  Are those considered rare or valuable?

16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

RC:

 

Carrera S base price is 14k EUR more (vs. Carrera). You would be surprised how many customers really care about this price difference. Also, Carrera is only one second slower from 0-100 mph (160 kph) than the Carrera S and from 0-200 kph (125 mph), the new Carrera is basically as fast as the "old" 991.1 Carrera S. Quite impressive.

I still would choose the Carrera S though  but for those who are looking for a nice and "affordable" 911 with less options, the Carrera base model is quite a good choice if you don't go wild on the options. 

My two cents on the topic (driving a 991.1 Carrera 2 pdk and indeed actually caring about the price):

It really depends on what you are looking for, I suppose. When I bought my 991, I have driven both the base model and S (the former one also with the manual gearbox, which to me felt awful in comparison to the manual in my previous 997.1 - but that's another story) and eventually went for the base model.

There was a difference in performance but I already struggle now to use my 350 ps to the full potential. More torque (especially because of the longer gearing) would be welcome but that should have been addressed now with the 991.2 and its turbos. Depending on country, the base model can be more advantageous than the 'S' too. In the "trade off" in picking the base model, I equipped the car to my liking: PSE, Sport Chrono, PASM, full leather, TPMS, sports steering wheel with paddles, 14 way memory seats, sunroof, Bose, Carrera S wheels, PDLS and little goodies (like Porsche crests in the headrests, colored wheel hubs etc). I am still convinced that for me this was a good choice as I actually get to enjoy the equipment more than i probably could use the extra 50 ps.

One final consideration: actually coming from a base 997, and now driving a base 991, the next 911 (no current plans) could very well be a base model too, even if money were less of an object (I am not going to be a hypocrite: if money is not an object, pick the best  you can get). But if it is somewhat of a consideration... Come to think if it: I do not care about have the fastest car on paper but admit it is not nice being the slower car on the road. Then again, public roads are not a race track (and I do not track my car) and I only had rare encounters with faster cars (embarrassing when struggling with TT RS kind of cars ). If you start with the base model and stick with it, you make progress too each time you go for the new model (that I do care about) but at a lower cost (resale value might be less, I am convinced you loose less money overall, as from day 1 you have a lower amount to put down) 

Thanks, very good points. Si fully subscribe to what you said: in Spain the base model is more than enough. As RC said, I have to try a manual car... or be patient and wait until 991.1 prices adjust.

1992 964 Carrera 2 - 2014 Mercedes A45 AMG - 2013 Mini Cooper S

Great review RC,  thank you for taking the time to share it with us. The 991.2  is a very smart car . Will deliver  Turbo like experience to a much wider customer base which will also enjoy the everyday benefits of low end torque. 

RC- are you tempted?  

FWIW - I too avoided the S as in the speed limited UK, it's no longer compelling over the standard car. (the 997 was a no-brainer) 

I went for PDK (first non-manual porsche for me) and don't regret it for a moment - indeed my second 991 PDK is much more refined that the first. (three years of further evolution). 

Whatever you decide transmissionwise - don't skimp on PSE - this is the stand-out feature of my new car (closely seconded by the glass sunroof).

991 Carrera Black\Black, XC90 Black\Black, 120 Cab Black\Coral Red - 2 kids, 1 dog