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    Cayenne Turbo Powerkit Brake - Experience (High Speed-Heat)

    Over the past few days, I had the chance to drive my CT with PK for a few couple of hundreds of kilometers on the Auotobahn. We have pretty high temperatures right now over here in Bavaria, up to 35*C and very sunny.

    The powerkit brake works incredibly good, no sign of heat fatigue, rubbing or whatever, even at very hard braking attempts from 270 kph to 120 kph for example.
    I even don't have to fully apply the brake, usually around 70% of braking power is needed to achieve excellent braking results.

    My brake discs are already "blue" now (you can imagine the "stress") but they keep up very good.

    Overall, I'm very satisfied and impressed. My "old" brake started to rub badly at those speeds and braking performance was getting worse and worse, resulting in almost no braking power at all after some hard high speed Autobahn driving on very hot days.

    For safety reasons, I wish Porsche would stand up to their history and their reputation and offer the brake on ALL Cayenne Turbo. It is pretty surprising that the original CT brake is THAT weak in my opinion, maybe the engineers responsible for development should really get a few kicks in the... But maybe it isn't their fault, maybe it is a question of money. Very disappointing.

    Re: Cayenne Turbo Powerkit Brake - Experience (High Speed-Heat)

    RC said:
    But maybe it isn't their fault, maybe it is a question of money. Very disappointing.


    if is a money not good..

    I think the Cayenne is in a price target not so cheap ......

    When people buy Porsche,from one to ten...need and whant ten! not six..


    Re: Cayenne Turbo Powerkit Brake - Experience (High Speed-He

    thanks RC, i also wish porsche would offer the PK brake on all CT's after reading your review, the standard brakes do look small for such a large car..

    Re: Cayenne Turbo Powerkit Brake - Experience (High Speed-He

    Is not Porsches braking standard to have NO fade after 10
    hard stops from top speed to zero repeated quickly ???

    Re: Cayenne Turbo Powerkit Brake - Experience (High Speed-He

    JimFlat6 said:
    Is not Porsches braking standard to have NO fade after 10
    hard stops from top speed to zero repeated quickly ???

    I had a very interesting letter exchange with Porsche.
    When I reported them my bad experience with the brake (hard driving in a hot environment), they replied that the brake is up to Porsche standards.
    I asked again about the brake, got the same response (same words!). Again I inquired about the brake and I even suggested that Mr. Wiedeking should let his kids drive with me in my CT if he really thinks the brake is THAT good.
    The reply? Well: SAME reply, SAME words. Never got technical details about testing results, etc., nothing.
    From what I heard from one of our sources at Porsche, some engineers may have felt offended by my letters. And if they think their products are perfect... You know that saying (a rude one but sometimes pretty accurate), saying: "if millions of flies eat sh.t, they can't be wrong". I'm afraid 90% of the Cayenne customers don't even drive a little bit close to the limit. So there are no complaints about brakes, throttle hesitation or weird shifting behavior.
    And if a few customers like me start to complaint, we're not important enough. A few dozends vs. a few thousands, why should Porsche care?!

    Re: Cayenne Turbo Powerkit Brake - Experience (High Speed-He

    May be some serious CT owners that drive their cars somewhat to its limits come up witha petition to send out to Porsche? just a though .

    This issue IS life threatening and should be taken care of sooner than later.

    Re: Cayenne Turbo Powerkit Brake - Experience (High Speed-He

    I must say I am a bit confused by all this, given that my only experience in driving the Cayennes really hard was at the Porsche Driving Experience course in Birmingham. We certainly pushed those vehicles hard, including maximal braking coming into the corners, as well as pushing through the corners hard enough so that the "Please Save Me" control was constantly working the brakes. The instructors frowned on turning it off.

    At several points, when we stopped between laps, the brakes were literally smoking, such that one of the instructors would hop in and take them back on the track to cool off. Now, we never took the vehicles up to top speed and hammered them back to zero, much less did that 10 times. However, given the "maximal track abuse" that they did suffer, I never noted any brake fade, nor did I hear anyone else describe it. Also, this included both CTs and CSs. Unless they had replaced the stock brakes (I didn't own one then, so I was not sophisticated enough to notice; but everyone else in the class owned a Cayenne of some flavor, and no one else commented that the brakes looked different), I'm having trouble figuring out why we didn't notice problems. It wasn't hot (upper 70s, low 80s - Fahrenheit). While I certainly appreciate the big brakes on my new CT-PK, I really doubt that I'll ever push my brakes as hard as we pushed those in Birmingham.

    BTW, for those considering it, the Porsche Driving Experience is a great deal of fun at a gorgeous track. It is not cheap, and you will get more racing instruction at other schools (I'm guessing their Carrera school is more race-rigorous), but, for me, just being able to take some hot laps in a Carrera with Hurley Haywood was damn near worth the tuition. Like most pro athletes, true race car drivers only LOOK like human beings, - in reality, they must be another species entirely.

    Re: Cayenne Turbo Powerkit Brake - Experience (High Speed-He

    That's my experience as well sigs, both at Birmingham and my most recent experience with a PCA sponsored DE. Last weekend I was on the track for about 150 miles, spread out over seven track sessions, and with maximum braking on every corner, I never had brake fade. As you said, the track experience does not include taking the vehicle up to maximum speed and braking to a stop for ten repetitions. I can see how that may induce fade. But still, I would hardly call the Cayenne's braking performance a safety hazard. It clearly is not.

    I also agree with your assessment of the Barber Motorsports experience. It is absolutely grand. I think I will go again to do the Boxster version.

    Re: Cayenne Turbo Powerkit Brake - Experience (High Speed-He

    Imagine this: you drive 160 mph and have to brake suddenly (no emergency braking but pretty "rough") to 70 mph. Then, a few miles later, the same procedure, again and again all the time for the next 100 mls or more.
    The whole thing at temperatures around the 90s.
    This is the german Autobahn. You have a few miles available for top speed and shortly after, there is somebody driving at 80 mph on the left lane with a few cars behind him. After it "clears" up, you can go 160 mph again...until the next car driving 80 mph blocks the left lane.
    The main problem over here is that we have no speed limit and some drivers actually think that driving 100 mph is pretty fast. In some cars, it may be. I felt more unsafe in a Smart at 70 mph than in my Cayenne at 160 mph.

    I drive my CT almost like I drive my 997, involving using late braking points.
    This is how I learned to drive a sports car, brake as late as possible and exit the curve as fast as possible. The braking thing works (especially now with the powerkit brake) pretty good but the exit thing doesn't due to that annoying throttle/shifting hesitation. I have the feeling that when the electronics "sense" an extreme lateral acceleration, it doesn't downshift anymore and throttle response is reduced too. Horrible setup for a car (even if it is a SUV) made by Porsche. Rollover danger? Well, I tried the whole stuff without PSM too but it would take a lot of stupidity to provoke a rollover.

    The Cayenne S brake is the same the Cayenne Turbo uses. This is another thing I don't understand. The Turbo has been measured at over 100 kg heavier than the "S" in several car magazines, not to speak about the higher top speed and the faster acceleration.
    When I asked Porsche why both, the S and the Turbo, have the same brake system, the reply was: all brake systems are tested...bla bla bla.
    So the interesting question is: why does the powerkit CT have a MUCH bigger brake system? OK, 50 horses more but from 0-62 mph, the gain in acceleration performance is only 0.3 seconds. I asked Porsche the same question and guess what: "our brake systems are tested...bla bla bla".

    My guess is: the cars are tested by the wrong people and some test engineers and superiors should understand that there are customers who can drive that fast too...and faster. A little bit more understanding and a little bit less arrogance would suit them very well in my opinion. WE, the customers, actually pay their salaries, I guess they forget that.
    And Porsche forgets that they've been in trouble before by ignoring both, customer demand and the competition. It can happen again very fast.

    Re: Cayenne Turbo Powerkit Brake - Experience (High Speed-He

    Okay, RC, now you're just trying to make us jealous

    GM Austin and I have to pay big bucks to get onto a gorgeous (and fairly technical) road course track and still can't push the brakes to their limit, - while you get to do so on a daily drive on the Autobahn. Dadgummit, we need one of those fancy highways over here.

    Seriously, though, this may well be the crux of the issue. GM and I have driven these vehicles harder than 99% (conservative estimate) of US Cayenne owners will ever drive them, with no braking problems. Since the US (I assume) was P's primary target market for this SUV, the brakes probably are more than sufficient for their goals (I know, - the vast majority of 911 owners over here will never stress their brakes either, but probably a much higher percentage than Cayenne owners). In effect, you and everyone else on the Autobahn are suffering from the "Americanization" of the vehicle.

    But, to put a less cynical voice to the matter, remember that there are serious compromises made with the bigger wheels mandated by the PK brakes on this supposed SUV. In fact, the first thing I tried to investigate before ordering was whether there was any way I could get just the power mods, with or without the suspension mods, but WITHOUT the bigger brakes, so that I could get 18" wheels. As it turns out, I am delighted that I couldn't take a pass on the suspension mods, as those are probably most beneficial for my daily driving. But, for a vehicle that is clearly built for off-road use, and which I would like to be able to take off-road on occasion, the limitations of these 19" wheels and the tires available for them is a real PITA for me. If I had the available time to truly enjoy a real performance car AND an SUV, I'd have a 996TT and a GX470. As it is, I have to get my jollies out of my daily commute to work, sometimes stopping by to haul something bigger than a briefcase on the way home. Thus, it was worth it for me to compromise on the CT-PK. But, imagine the outcry from the folks (admittedly few) who might want to do even semi-serious off-roading in their CTs and HAD to live with the 18" or larger wheels.

    While I do appreciate the difference between my brakes and the standard brakes, in the long run, I probably would have gotten more use out of the standard brakes, 18" wheels, and a little extra cash in my bank account. Then maybe I could afford to spend a week on the Autobahn and really have some fun

    Re: Cayenne Turbo Powerkit Brake - Experience (High Speed-He

    Very nicely put sigs. I was going to respond to RC's post with something similar but I'm sure I would not have said it as well.

    The only point I might add is that the shortcomings of the Cayenne brakes are only relevant in the context of the very high standards of braking we associate with a Porsche. If we compare the braking performance of any other SUV to that of the Cayenne, I believe the Cayenne will compare very favorably. So, in that context, do the Cayenne brakes present a hazard? Well, possibly on the Autobahn, yes. But then every other three-ton SUV traveling at 160 mph on the Autobahn presents an even greater hazard then the Cayenne.

    But let's not quibble. I would like to see the bigger brakes standard on the Turbo as well so I am definitely not knocking the concept. Despite the stonewalling RC is getting from Porsche, it wouldn't suprise me to see the powerkit brakes become standard on the MY 2007 Turbo.

    Re: Cayenne Turbo Powerkit Brake - Experience (High Speed-He

    I will be taking the CT to a track day for a laugh shortly and will be preparing the braking system beforehand accordingly. From experience with other cars, I have found upgrading to either Brembo Racing or Castrol SRF brake fluid, in conjunction with Pagid RS19 pads provides a signifcant increase in braking performance and resistance to fade at far less cost than the Porsche powerkit.

    Re: Cayenne Turbo Powerkit Brake - Experience (High Speed-He

    stephens said:
    I have found upgrading to either Brembo Racing or Castrol SRF brake fluid, in conjunction with Pagid RS19 pads provides a signifcant increase in braking performance and resistance to fade at far less cost than the Porsche powerkit.

    Racing pads needs to heat up to work properly. Fine on the track but not what you want for a daily driver.

    Re: Cayenne Turbo Powerkit Brake - Experience (High Speed-He

    Have you seen a graph of the co-efficient of friciton verses temp for different pad compounds?
    I use an endurance racing compound on my Ferrari which is driven regulalry on the street with no problems. Granted the cold performance will not be as good, but this only applies to a low speed stop, where this is not relevant.

    Re: Cayenne Turbo Powerkit Brake - Experience (High Speed-He

    I am refering to a situation where you have been driving on the autobahn (for example) for a long period of time without using your brakes and you suddenly need to emergency brake. If the racing pads needs an extra 1/2 second to heat up, that can be the difference..
    But, I have not actually seen a friction/temp graph and maybe I am wrong.

    Re: Cayenne Turbo Powerkit Brake - Experience (High Speed-He

    Have a look at the following
    You don't need to use a full racing compound, such as RS14 or RS15, which would be too hard on your rotors anyway.
    I would recommend the RS4-2. Follow the link to read about the different pad characteristics.

    Re: Cayenne Turbo Powerkit Brake - Experience (High Speed-He

    The temprature here in dubai is in the regions of 40'c, and with the ctt brakes, i can not stop at all if i slam them around 180kmph. I am thinking of getting the power kit, but want the car for a few more weeks before i travel in july and give it to the dealer. it takes 5 days to put on right? i spoke to porsche and they told me they might be offering the porsche ceramic brakes like they offer them on the new models. but at around $7000 dollars for the brakes alone, it expensive.



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