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Re: 996TT Suspension?
When I testdrove RUF's 996 Turbo R prototype a while ago, it had the OEM suspension on it, no mods at all. When I asked Alois Ruf about a possible suspension upgrade, he said that the OEM suspension setup is very good (no doubt about it, I can confirm that) and it is difficult to find a better setup. After the ride with the prototype, I didn't drive a RUF 996 Turbo R anymore.
Regarding the H&R suspension: there are different versions of it. I testdrove two of them, the street version with double springs and the racing version with double springs. As far as I know, there is a third version without double springs but a very good setup for racing.
The street version is very balanced, still some mild understeer present but cornering is much more precise and stiffness is not more annoying (or not) as on the OEM setup. I'd recommend different swaybars with this setup if you want to seriously track race this car. Lowering on the car I testdrove was about 30 mm lower than OEM ROW setup. That means even 10 mm lower than the OEM GT2 setup. I guess lowering the TT further could induce some serious problems on the street (ramps, etc.).
The so called racing version of the H&R coilover kit I drove was very stiff, even a bit too stiff for street driving. Cornering felt not much different than with the street version but I wasn't able to push it to the max because I testdrove it on a public street. However the steering felt a little bit more "nervous", especially at higher speeds. The directness of steering-in was better but also with a narrower margin than with the OEM or street version of the H&R coilover kit. The car I testdrove had different swaybars too and it felt very good balanced. No understeer at all with a mild tendency to oversteer, especially because this car was equipped with a 543 HP power upgrade.
Overall I made my own conclusion: if I want to drive my Turbo mainly on the street, I'd go for the street version of the H&R coilover kit and maybe add some swaybars to it.
For mainly track driving, I'd go for a H&R coilover kit incl. different droplinks and different swaybars too.
It is very difficult to give you an advise which setup would be best or the fastest. The problem is that in fact you have to adapt the suspension setup to the track you're driving on. What can be fast on track XYZ, does't necessarily have to be fast on track ZYX. The Nuerburgring Nordschleife is a pretty good example for that rule: people who install super stiff and low racing suspensions on their cars are very surprised that they're slower than other cars, even with OEM (!) manufacturer setup.
Stiff and low is not always the way to go.
I hope I could help a bit, sorry I can't explain it better in my bad English.
BTW: the best "overall" setup proves to be the OEM ROW setup. But many people laugh at me when I tell them.
Regarding the H&R suspension: there are different versions of it. I testdrove two of them, the street version with double springs and the racing version with double springs. As far as I know, there is a third version without double springs but a very good setup for racing.
The street version is very balanced, still some mild understeer present but cornering is much more precise and stiffness is not more annoying (or not) as on the OEM setup. I'd recommend different swaybars with this setup if you want to seriously track race this car. Lowering on the car I testdrove was about 30 mm lower than OEM ROW setup. That means even 10 mm lower than the OEM GT2 setup. I guess lowering the TT further could induce some serious problems on the street (ramps, etc.).
The so called racing version of the H&R coilover kit I drove was very stiff, even a bit too stiff for street driving. Cornering felt not much different than with the street version but I wasn't able to push it to the max because I testdrove it on a public street. However the steering felt a little bit more "nervous", especially at higher speeds. The directness of steering-in was better but also with a narrower margin than with the OEM or street version of the H&R coilover kit. The car I testdrove had different swaybars too and it felt very good balanced. No understeer at all with a mild tendency to oversteer, especially because this car was equipped with a 543 HP power upgrade.
Overall I made my own conclusion: if I want to drive my Turbo mainly on the street, I'd go for the street version of the H&R coilover kit and maybe add some swaybars to it.
For mainly track driving, I'd go for a H&R coilover kit incl. different droplinks and different swaybars too.
It is very difficult to give you an advise which setup would be best or the fastest. The problem is that in fact you have to adapt the suspension setup to the track you're driving on. What can be fast on track XYZ, does't necessarily have to be fast on track ZYX. The Nuerburgring Nordschleife is a pretty good example for that rule: people who install super stiff and low racing suspensions on their cars are very surprised that they're slower than other cars, even with OEM (!) manufacturer setup.
Stiff and low is not always the way to go.
I hope I could help a bit, sorry I can't explain it better in my bad English.
BTW: the best "overall" setup proves to be the OEM ROW setup. But many people laugh at me when I tell them.
Re: 996TT Suspension?
I totally agree that low and stiff is not always better!
Now, here is a question about installation of the H&R coilovers, do I have to corner balance the car? Also is it nessaery to corner balance with the driver's weight? I am not sure I can trust the shop (porsche dealer) to put my suspension on as they don't really know anything about a geometry of the suspension, they kept on saying.. "The car look so good when lowered"
Maybe you can help, can you give me some good advise as to how I can make sure the suspension is install properly, not just put it on and lowering it but a well-balanced set-up.
Also, for some reason, they found one single spoke wheels on my car and the rest are hollow spoke which have different weight. Will that affect the corner balance? I don't even know why do I have one single spoke wheel???
Now, here is a question about installation of the H&R coilovers, do I have to corner balance the car? Also is it nessaery to corner balance with the driver's weight? I am not sure I can trust the shop (porsche dealer) to put my suspension on as they don't really know anything about a geometry of the suspension, they kept on saying.. "The car look so good when lowered"
Maybe you can help, can you give me some good advise as to how I can make sure the suspension is install properly, not just put it on and lowering it
but a well-balanced set-up.
Also, for some reason, they found one single spoke wheels on my car and the rest are hollow spoke which have different weight. Will that affect the corner balance? I don't even know why do I have one single spoke wheel???
H&R, ride height and "rigid shimkit"
I have been running H&R coilovers since January; very happy with them. One question: currently the rear sits only ~10mm below RoW. I sort of like it that way, but they say that H&R range is 20-40mm lower. Am I missing something? Should I lower the rear even further?
At the same time I had H&R coilovers installed on my car, the Cargraphic/Ruf "rigid shimkit" was installed as well. This is a set of 6 aluminum bushings that replace the stock rubber bushings the rear axle is mounted on. Since I never had them without H&R, I really wonder what they contribute to (very nice) handling and feel of the car. Any thoughts?
Regarding the adjustable anti-roll bars, I use GT3 (same as GT2 ?) ones. The only problem, to be able to re-adjust the settings without having to re-balance the car, one has to use the adjustable droplinks. Porsche Motorsport droplinks (off GT3R ?) do not fit in the front, only in the rear. So I went with front droplinks developed by The Racers Group and they work fine.
At the same time I had H&R coilovers installed on my car, the Cargraphic/Ruf "rigid shimkit" was installed as well. This is a set of 6 aluminum bushings that replace the stock rubber bushings the rear axle is mounted on. Since I never had them without H&R, I really wonder what they contribute to (very nice) handling and feel of the car. Any thoughts?
Regarding the adjustable anti-roll bars, I use GT3 (same as GT2 ?) ones. The only problem, to be able to re-adjust the settings without having to re-balance the car, one has to use the adjustable droplinks. Porsche Motorsport droplinks (off GT3R ?) do not fit in the front, only in the rear. So I went with front droplinks developed by The Racers Group and they work fine.
Re: H&R, ride height and "rigid shimkit"
Well I can' tell you anything about the rigid shimkit of Cargraphic/RUF because I don't really know what you mean.
Cargraphic and RUF don't work together, so they don't make any products together, especially because Mr. Schmirler, the owner of RS-Tuning, had some "issues" with RUF a long time ago when he worked for them. The story is actually pretty interesting but I can't tell it on this forum without the fear to be sued by one of the parties.
Cargraphic and RUF don't work together, so they don't make any products together, especially because Mr. Schmirler, the owner of RS-Tuning, had some "issues" with RUF a long time ago when he worked for them. The story is actually pretty interesting but I can't tell it on this forum without the fear to be sued by one of the parties.
Rigid shimkit: what it is
RC,
The "rigid shimkit" is what it is called in Cargraphic catalog. What you get for around $550 is a set of 12 aluminum bushings to replace the stock rubber bushings that the rear axle is mounted on. The 996's rear axle has 3 mounting/pivot points on each side, two (upper+lower) bushings per point: 2x3x2 = 12.
The reason why I mentioned Ruf is because I got this set from Ruf, not Cargraphic. As far as I can tell, they is identicaly the same! Also, Gemballa sells this kit as well.
I strongly suspect they all buy these bushings from the same manufacturer
What's more, Ruf sent me the wrong kit initialy: 993 instead of 996. I was able to use the Cargraphic catalog to identify it right away! So the 993 kits are also identical...
The "rigid shimkit" is what it is called in Cargraphic catalog. What you get for around $550 is a set of 12 aluminum bushings to replace the stock rubber bushings that the rear axle is mounted on. The 996's rear axle has 3 mounting/pivot points on each side, two (upper+lower) bushings per point: 2x3x2 = 12.
The reason why I mentioned Ruf is because I got this set from Ruf, not Cargraphic. As far as I can tell, they is identicaly the same! Also, Gemballa sells this kit as well.
I strongly suspect they all buy these bushings from the same manufacturer
What's more, Ruf sent me the wrong kit initialy: 993 instead of 996. I was able to use the Cargraphic catalog to identify it right away! So the 993 kits are also identical...
Re: H & R coil-over 'versions'
RC...I was very interested to hear your mention of diferent variations of the H&R coil-over system....I have suspected so much for a while.
I think I recall early-on that the H&R units that Gemballa was selling was slightly dif than reg H&R (certainly more expensive)......so what is your understanding...of the 2 or three variations you have heard, which is commonly sold by the mail-order catalogs, which is sold by Gemballa, etc?....Thanks...GreggT
I think I recall early-on that the H&R units that Gemballa was selling was slightly dif than reg H&R (certainly more expensive)......so what is your understanding...of the 2 or three variations you have heard, which is commonly sold by the mail-order catalogs, which is sold by Gemballa, etc?....Thanks...GreggT
Re: H & R coil-over 'versions'
As far as I heard, the street sport version with double springs is sold mainly. In Germany, Gemballa offers a big variety of different suspension systems, I doubt that all of them are by H&R. Gemballa can custom adapt the suspension for you but this is a very expensive job. For example: the suspension system on the Gemballa GTR 750 costs almost 20000 USD !
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