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    Re: Blown Engine

    Guys thanks a lot for your advice.

    Took it in this morning and it looks like it might be a tappet that has jammed and broken. They said they had seen these issues before (which I have never heard about).

    One whole bank is misfiring and they want to see what is inside - apparently they have found some small flakes of metal. It can't be the o2 sensor or coils (they thought it was the coils).

    The work to open up the engine (camshaft covers) alone costs 2k pounds!!!!

    On the plus if there is something wrong inside they will try and get goodwill for the work from Porsche and I made it plain I don't have that much spare cash so they were sort of sympathetic.

    All very scary quite frankly. 

    Anything other advice much appreciated.

    SoS.


    Re: Blown Engine

    £2k? Sorry to hear that SoS...

    Makes me relieved that I bought a 2 year warranty extension.

    It's somewhat ironic that there are other threads currently here on RT discussing whether to mod/tune the engines on cars and how the performance benefits outweigh the benefits of having a valid warranty. I, for one, would never give up that piece of mind but I suppose everyone has their own subjective views on this.

    --
     

    Rennteam Moderator - 997.1 C2S Coupe GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: Blown Engine

    @ 911Fanatic ,, great read and pics.....

    @ SoS ,, all the best of luck,,buddy..


    --

    throt

    "I didn't do it"


    Re: Blown Engine

    Hi Easy.

    Yes I thought about the warrant extension but decided to risk it.  

    With hindsight... but this syndrome seems pretty rare and I don't know what the total bill will be, given Porsche probably don't want to get a bad rep for their engines. Let's see.

    Maybe I'll have to get a new GT3 as a trade-in...

    Throt thanks for the thought, mate. X fingers.

    Will let you all know what transpires - unless it's too painful!

    Cheers SoS.


    Re: Blown Engine

    wtsnet, Thx for comment regarding pictures...I've posted all that I have.  I'm not sure about shiny bits with rough looking welds, I can only assume they are for handling use...I will check and get back to you. Regarding RMS, I could not visually see a difference between old and new mainly because old RMS was still in engine. I do know part #'s are different.....probably just a slightly better fit than previous.     


    --
    2005 Black 997 Carrera S

    Re: Blown Engine

    wtsnet:

     

    I'm assuming that the shiny bits with the rough looking welds on the side of the refurb engine are for handling use only?


    Those welds are fine, if it's the ones on the brackets over the cylinder heads you are referring to, a process called Metal Inert Gas (MIG) welding the discolouration is caused by the heat.

    To quote an engineer looking at the very poor quality of some welds I once did when I was at sea described my workmanship as "a cats arse sewn up with a bicycle chain". Smiley


    --
    Boxster S 3.4 06 Cobalt / Ocean Blue (Zuffenhausen collection)  BMW 123d M Sport 08 Le Mans Blue / Lemon


    Re: Blown Engine

    wtsnet:

    I'm assuming that the shiny bits with the rough looking welds on the side of the refurb engine are for handling use only?


    Carriers for the exhaust system.
     


    --

    fritz


    Re: Blown Engine

    fritz:
    wtsnet:

    I'm assuming that the shiny bits with the rough looking welds on the side of the refurb engine are for handling use only?


    Carriers for the exhaust system.
     

    Aaah.

    And @DC, Aaaah. And Smiley


    Re: Blown Engine

    OK diagnosis is that the issue is a Tappet solenoid(?). Total cost will be 1600 GBP or thereabouts fully inclusive which has saved me from a serious financial heart attack. While reasonably paid I can't comfortably deal with very large servicing costs - one reason why I bought the 911 in the first place. They kindly nulled the diagnosis time as the official repair time is 12 hours - almost exactly the same time as the diagnosis time which has pretty much resulted in the fix anyway. 

    They haven't tested it yet so the jury is still out to some extent as far as I am concerned, but this is all sounding a lot better now. And it sounds as though I needed a full oil change anyway if as they say there were tiny metal shards around the place...

    By the way I very slightly overfilled the oil recently (due to the level sensitive nature of the electronic measurement system) and noticed that my gearbox suddenly lost all notchiness in 1st. Could there be a connection do you think, or is this simply a coincidence?

    Thanks for your support and suggestions guys - as always.

    Cheers,

    SoS. 


    Re: Blown Engine

    SonOfStig:

    By the way I very slightly overfilled the oil recently (due to the level sensitive nature of the electronic measurement system) and noticed that my gearbox suddenly lost all notchiness in 1st. Could there be a connection do you think, or is this simply a coincidence?


    There cannot be a connection. The notchiness is probably less pronounced now because ambient temperatues are higher. You may find that it will reappear around November.  Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: Blown Engine

     Vielen Danke,

    Ich hoffe nichts, aber....


    Re: Blown Engine

    SonOfStig:

     Vielen Danke,

    Ich hoffe nichts, aber....

    Gern geschehen.

    I didn't think to ask in my last post, but do you have the short shifter fitted to your car? Smiley 


    --

    fritz


    Re: Blown Engine

    @ fritz , your a smart lad ,, bud..

    Where is your title which you had on RT1 ? , If I remember correctly you were titled a Rennteam Tech was you not..

    Eunice ,, reinstate this deserved title if you would  ......


    --

    throt

    "I didn't do it"


    Re: Blown Engine

    throt:

    @ fritz , your a smart lad ,, bud..

    Where is your title which you had on RT1 ? , If I remember correctly you were titled a Rennteam Tech was you not..

    Eunice ,, reinstate this deserved title if you would  ......

    He's a master now, that's a much higher rank previously unknown to RT1. Please refer to him as his highness, bow after every sentence and refrain from making pejorative statements like the one you just did.

    The force is strong in him, but we do not know yet which side he chose.


    Re: Blown Engine

     Ok total bill 1700 pounds including a cosmetic fix (which was the S on the back becoming loose and needing replacement). I can deal with that, although it's a nice ski holiday equivalent  - ouch!

    No I don't have the sports shifter but am considering getting one as I am about the track the car this year and I find the travel a little long. I only get notchiness in 1st and I suspect you're right - ambient temperature issue. After the repair the OPC filled the engine with exactly the right amount of oil and still no notchiness.

    The car works basically fine now although there seems a little hesitation occasionally. Let's see how it goes. It is still quick - I warmed oil up to 90 degress plus and took it for a blast down my local section of motorway - nice little twitch on the back whilst accelerating down / round the corner of a slipway and I had forgotten the performance / sound - nice reminder & good fun! No-one else on that piece of road of course - well after midnight.

    <<Nerd alert>>

    If you are interested, the problem was a malfunctioning tappet solenoid. This component controls the two piece tappets (there is an inner core and outer ring) which engage with either of the two profiles of the cam (inner cam lobe or outer two lobes - outer lobes engage with ring, inner lobe engages with core - but not at the same time as these are effectively different cams). It does this via oil pressure variation and because it wasn't working the wrong pieces of the tappets were engaging with the wrong part of the cam - probably at the wrong time - resulting in misfiring etc. Apparently the bracket holding the tappet solenoid into the engine commonly breaks resulting in the same symptoms. 

    Lucky I didn't drive it too far or it could have got really nasty.

    Happy to post pictures from another site showing the bits if anyone is interested.

    Apparently this is quite a common issue along with ignition coil failure so if you have bad misfiring - really, really rough idling  - and stalling (rather than just a bit of rough performance until the engine warms up which is a coil issue) - then you might want to mention checking the tappet solenoid to your OPC or specialist. I suggest this because my OPC took the valve cover off one bank of the engine (and I think removed the camshaft) before finding the solenoid was the issue. I've just got to hope they put it back together properly...

    <<Nerd alert over>>  Smiley

     

     


    Re: Blown Engine

    This nerd thanks you for your feedback. Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: Blown Engine

    Agreed. What this site needs is more technical stuff.

    Smiley We need to know stuff like this in case it happens to us!

    Is it like people not wanting to talk about faults like they were some sort of embarrasing medical problem....?


    Re: Blown Engine

    wtsnet:

    Agreed. What this site needs is more technical stuff.

    Smiley We need to know stuff like this in case it happens to us!

    Is it like people not wanting to talk about faults like they were some sort of embarrasing medical problem....?

    Maybe it's a sign that, for instance,  the RMS ailment is just a lot less common than VD? Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: Blown Engine

    Okay.....technical stuff - here goes....

    Less people drive Porsche 911's than have sex.....fact! 

     

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: Blown Engine

    Thx for info on your issue, the more knowledge the better as far as I' concerned. 


    --
    2005 Black 997 Carrera S

    Re: Blown Engine

    SoS - great that you got it fixed - not so great that it cost so much.

    FWIW the same had happened to my 2005 car before I'd bought it. I've run it for 18 months now and have had RMS failure and one coil pack replaced. Fortunately all under warranty. (the RMS actually costs £5.61p)

    Hopefully, all that can go wrong for the next couple of years, has gone wrong. Glad I took out the extended warranty but probably won't when it's due in October as it's so much more expensive now.

    I hadn't noticed the RMS failure - no oil in the garage - it was picked up at the 4 year service by the folks at Hatfield. Incidentally, it's worth noting that they are flexible on price - all in cost just over £1000 including replacement drive belts, Aircon regas, wipers, oil etc.


    --
    C2S - Basalt/Black 530d - Silver/Black 2 kids, 2 dogs

    Re: Blown Engine

    In my view, you shouldn't even have paid the $100 deductible.  What is also disturbing is that the remanufactured engine isn't even up to the latest engineering release level--with an older RMS.  What kind of configuration control do they have??

    Thanks for the detailed pics, writeup, and followup.

    Dan


    --
    997S Hard-top Cabrio 6-spd 3AS 'Turquoise' Natural Brown, PCCB

    Re: Blown Engine

    Agreed, I was also disappointed to see the remanufactured engine with an older RMS. I had to pay to get this replaced with the newer design before they put the motor back in....wasn't much.  Anyway, all is well now and I'm enjoying the car more than ever!!


    --
    2005 Black 997 Carrera S

    Re: Blown Engine

    Great pics and interesting to see how the process went from start to finish. Certainly was good news that you had the extended warrantyand was glad to see it all went well for you.

    However, I do have one problem with this whole issue though. That being that you had to go through it at all. I can think of no excuse at all for Porsche engines to have potential catastrophic problems built in at the factory. These issues aren't supplier based manufacturing mistakes, or quality control issues, or even assembly mistakes. They are caused by a poor initial design that was never corrected. Porsche made this engine for 10 + years and never bothered to fix the inherant design flaw in the engive itself until 2009. If anything, they should feel embarrased that all that engineering talent couldn't come up with a fix for the issues in over 10 years. The the fact that they are expected to be less prevelent in the 2007- 08 engines could just be BS.  I'll keep my fingers crossed on that one and I'll also make sure I get an extended warranty once the original runs out.


    --

    2007 C4S Cab, Silver/Black/Black, 6 spd, Nav, Bose, Sport Chrono Plus,Heated Seats, Dimming Mirrors, Rain Sensor, Crests 


    Re: Blown Engine

    Unfortunately it has nothing to do with Porsche's engineering skill, but it's all about the accountants that run the company. It's cheaper to "fix" the broken engines, than redesign them. The resaon there is a Gen 2 engine is that many changes were needed, like DFI, etc., not just an RMS and Intermediate Shaft redesign.


    Re: Blown Engine

    I agree with you 100% that their decision was an economic one which would suggest that it took Porsche 10+ years to get an acceptable ROI on the gen 1 engine development costs before they changed it. But, with that said, given the fact that when these items failed, and maybe not in large numbers,  the results were so extreme I find it hard to accept that they would have waited as long as they did to correct these problems. 

    Love my Pcar, hate the fact that it could self distruct at any moment regardless of how it is maintained.Smiley


    --

    2007 C4S Cab, Silver/Black/Black, 6 spd, Nav, Bose, Sport Chrono Plus,Heated Seats, Dimming Mirrors, Rain Sensor, Crests 


    Re: Blown Engine

    Dadio: 

    ......Love my Pcar, hate the fact that it could self distruct at any moment regardless of how it is maintained.Smiley


     That's why I drive a 964!


     
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