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    Quoted DIN weights 997GT2

    Porsche used to be fairly unique in that when they published a DIN weight (ie no occupants all fluids inc 90% fuel load) it was usually spot on - they said a 993tt weighed 1500kg and near as damn it they all did....

    It seemed to be around 2003 when the rot started to set in when the quoted weights started becoming wildly optimistic compared to actual cars on the road being weighed.

    The Carrera GT was the first big clanger 1380kg was much quoted with all the magazines lavishing praise on how light this car was when in fact the cars on the road came in at 1470+ kg nearly 100kg more !

    The next crazy one was the 997GT3/RS quoted 1395/1375kg and both coming out at around 50kg more. Cargraphic used their arsenal of lightweight parts and still only managed to get their GT3RS down to 1393kg !

    The 997 turbo at launch at least did seem to be able to be specced to come in around the 1580kg mark but then they launched the 997 GT2 and yada yada it weighs 1440kg - tested ones I have seen so far are 1497kg and 1510kg !!

    The reason for bringing up this topic which as someone who takes an unhealthy interest in weighing cars (very sad and for no real good reason other than light=good) is that I have a deposit down for an '09 997GT2 (whether or not Porsche GB will let me have one or not is another matter).

    I want to know how I can spec the car to come out at the 1440kg DIN weight mark which Porsche claim. The 1497kg one tested by SA seemed to be pretty low spec with only the roll cage adding mass, apart from that it had sport chrono, VTS, a bit of extra leather.....

    When/if I am told I can buy one of these I intend to ask the question "what spec do I need to get the factory quoted DIN weight of 1440kg" and take it as high as possible as surely one should be able to buy what is represented ?

    What do we think, is 1440kg possible ? Is it marketing BS, some fantasy spec ? Did someone forget to fill the tanks before the weigh in ?

    Tested weight data is here:
    http://www.einszweidrei.de/

    Re: Quoted DIN weights 997GT2

    Just checked the official weight Porsche claims for the GT2: it is 1515kg (not 1440)... Thus, the test cars do fit the official specs


    www.porsche.com/germany/models/911/911-gt2/featuresandspecs/?gtabindex=5

    Re: Quoted DIN weights 997GT2

    At a quick glance that is not DIN weight, I am guessing that is EEC weight which includes driver and luggage...68kg driver and 7kg luggage so 1440 DIN

    This is exactly how they get away with it - it is confusing

    Re: Quoted DIN weights 997GT2

    Quote:
    TB993tt said:
    At a quick glance that is not DIN weight, I am guessing that is EEC weight which includes driver and luggage...68kg driver and 7kg luggage so 1440 DIN

    This is exactly how they get away with it - it is confusing



    Maybe they publish EU weight figures in the press tests as well

    Re: Quoted DIN weights 997GT2

    First, DIN weight of 997 Turbo Coupe manual is 1585kg. BUT, several German magazines measured 1580kg and 1581kg... WHY? 1585kg is with standard brakes and those test car were equiped with PCCBs... Also, if you order optional Bucket seats and PCCBs 997 Turbo manual could weight below 1570kg(precise 1568.8kg)...

    997 GT2 DIN weight is indeed 1440kg-without Navi, Bose and extra leather... So, add Navi, Bose and some other optional features(like tons of leather) and you are at(or over) 1500kg figure...

    Re: Quoted DIN weights 997GT2

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:

    997 GT2 DIN weight is indeed 1440kg-without Navi, Bose and extra leather... So, add Navi, Bose and some other optional features(like tons of leather) and you are at(or over) 1500kg figure...



    I am not seeing how Navi, Bose and leather adds up to 50+kg -OK the cage in the SA test car will have added ~25kg but still doesn't seem to add up. Do you believe Porsche would be able to spec me a 1440kg DIN GT2 ?

    Do you know for a fact that the 997tt quoted DIN weight 1585kg was with steel brakes ? I think it was with PCCB...

    Re: Quoted DIN weights 997GT2

    997 Turbo DIN weight of 1585kg is with standard brakes(and standard equipment-Navi, Bose, Electrical seats etc.). So, by specifying Buckets and PCCBs you can lower the weight for almost 20kgs(of course, if you do not add tons of leather)....

    Regarding leather-just leather roofliner weights 2kg more then standard alcantara!

    You want 1440kg 997 GT2? Order basic car without any additional options. Just Navi with HDD is almost 10kg in total(did you see the parts? I did...)...

    Re: Quoted DIN weights 997GT2

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    First, DIN weight of 997 Turbo Coupe manual is 1585kg. BUT, several German magazines measured 1580kg and 1581kg... WHY? 1585kg is with standard brakes and those test car were equiped with PCCBs...



    I thought the weight saving from PCCB was greater, nearer 10kg. Are you sure it is 4-5kgs for all four?

    Re: Quoted DIN weights 997GT2

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    997 Turbo DIN weight of 1585kg is with standard brakes(and standard equipment-Navi, Bose, Electrical seats etc.). So, by specifying Buckets and PCCBs you can lower the weight for almost 20kgs(of course, if you do not add tons of leather)....

    Regarding leather-just leather roofliner weights 2kg more then standard alcantara!

    You want 1440kg 997 GT2? Order basic car without any additional options. Just Navi with HDD is almost 10kg in total(did you see the parts? I did...)...



    Thanks for the info on weights. Do you have any more weights for individual items/options. Like weight of Park assist, sport chrono etc ?

    Re: Quoted DIN weights 997GT2

    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    First, DIN weight of 997 Turbo Coupe manual is 1585kg. BUT, several German magazines measured 1580kg and 1581kg... WHY? 1585kg is with standard brakes and those test car were equiped with PCCBs...



    I thought the weight saving from PCCB was greater, nearer 10kg. Are you sure it is 4-5kgs for all four?



    You missunderstud me. Those test example of 997 Turbo were all fully equpied otherwise(lots of extra leather, CD changer etc.) so, yes, weight savings of PCCBs is about 15kg at least...

    Re: Quoted DIN weights 997GT2

    Quote:
    TB993tt said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    997 Turbo DIN weight of 1585kg is with standard brakes(and standard equipment-Navi, Bose, Electrical seats etc.). So, by specifying Buckets and PCCBs you can lower the weight for almost 20kgs(of course, if you do not add tons of leather)....

    Regarding leather-just leather roofliner weights 2kg more then standard alcantara!

    You want 1440kg 997 GT2? Order basic car without any additional options. Just Navi with HDD is almost 10kg in total(did you see the parts? I did...)...



    Thanks for the info on weights. Do you have any more weights for individual items/options. Like weight of Park assist, sport chrono etc ?



    SC almost nothing(BUT, you do not need it on GT2 ). Park sensors with complete instalation more then 1.5kg...

    Little advice-alcantara options do not add any weight. Stick with basic options and just add some CF items. It will be about 1440kg(+/- kg or so)...

    Re: Quoted DIN weights 997GT2

    Kreso
    What about the VTS which seems to be non delete-able is that worth a few kg ?

    Re: Quoted DIN weights 997GT2

    Quote:
    TB993tt said:

    ... 68kg driver ...



    OMG - I can't remember the last time I weighed 68kg. Must be when I was a teenager. So my Porsche is carrying an extra suitcase full of weight just because I am driving it rather than some lightweight guy....

    Re: Quoted DIN weights 997GT2

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Little advice-alcantara options do not add any weight. Stick with basic options and just add some CF items. It will be about 1440kg(+/- kg or so)...



    I have been told that the PCM can actually be removed but ordering one without this option in the UK is considered commercial suicide rendering the car unsaleable so that along with the telephone module had to be included ....

    So here is the spec - shall we take bets on what it will weigh DIN ?
    1440 + 10kg PSM + 1.5kg park assist, anything else ? Is it going to come in at 1452kg ? my guess is 1480kg ?

    Re: Quoted DIN weights 997GT2

    Leave XAJ option-do not look good IMHO.
    It should be around 1455kg...

    Re: Quoted DIN weights 997GT2

    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    First, DIN weight of 997 Turbo Coupe manual is 1585kg. BUT, several German magazines measured 1580kg and 1581kg... WHY? 1585kg is with standard brakes and those test car were equiped with PCCBs...



    I thought the weight saving from PCCB was greater, nearer 10kg. Are you sure it is 4-5kgs for all four?

    I understand that PCCB saves about 20 kg or 44 lbs. Several magazine sources and Porsche info.

    Re: Quoted DIN weights 997GT2

    Turbo PCCB save 20kg, I thought the GT2 ones were bigger though?!

    Re: Quoted DIN weights 997GT2

    Quote:
    Alex_997TT said:
    Turbo PCCB save 20kg, I thought the GT2 ones were bigger though?!



    Nope, same brakes.

    Re: Quoted DIN weights 997GT2

    Quote:
    Crash said:


    Nope, same brakes.



    The GT2 has aluminium "brake chambers" on the front axle which weigh 50% less than steel ones on the 997 turbo ?

    Re: Quoted DIN weights 997GT2

    Quote:
    TB993tt said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:


    Nope, same brakes.



    The GT2 has aluminium "brake chambers" on the front axle which weigh 50% less than steel ones on the 997 turbo ?



    You serious? I never noticed that. What kind of weight saving would that translate into?

    Re: Quoted DIN weights 997GT2

    Quote:
    Crash said:


    You serious? I never noticed that. What kind of weight saving would that translate into?



    I'm afraid I am going to become a 997 GT2 anorak, I have loads of tecchy stuff on it and am studying with a passion
    The aluminium "brake disc chamber" (as they call it, but presumably itis the centre disc carrier) is aluminium on GT3 and GT2 with Aluminium first being used in the 997 GT3 Cup in March 2005.
    It does not specifically state that the 997tt has stainless steel ones but all previous PCCBs had so that is my assumption....

    It says "Together with the light ceramic brake discs this has reduced the unsprung masses for the entire vehicle by approx 1.8kg" but doesn't say what it is comparing to !

    Re: Quoted DIN weights 997GT2

    In anticipation of the arrival of my 1455kg (according to KresoF1) GT2 , I thought it interesting that the Manthey GT2 tested by Sport Auto came in at 1480kg....

    This Manthey car had their super lightweight mag wheels and carbon doors - do we still think mine is going to come in at 1455kg ? My guesstimate of 1480kg (see above post) is begining to look a little optimistic ! 


    Re: Quoted DIN weights 997GT2

    Guys, sorry to jump in onto this discussion but seriously, weights up to 50 kg are actually not significant for the casual amateur race track driver.

    Meaning: before you try to save weight, work on your driving skills. Sometimes I'm very surprised to see how good track drivers actually drive around on the street like real jerks. This can mean only one thing: they would be actually even better track drivers if they would concentrate on tiny little details in their driving style.

    I know that track addicts love to talk about technical details and weight figures but in the real world, this doesn't make much difference. Unless you're a real pro driver which most of us aren't.

    If you want to maximize your experience on the track, there are a couple of easy rules to follow regarding the 997:

    1. get Michelin Cup tires, those with N-rating(they allow you to drive safely home after a track day, even on heavy rain), they're pretty good. Better: get a second set of rims/tires for the track only.

    2. the PCCB brake lowers unsprung weight by around 20 kg BUT in the end, it isn't actually the type of brake you want to use for serious track racing. Reason: COST.

    3. change the brake fluid with a special race braking fluid(ATE Blue for example) before EACH serious race. After the race, replace it immediately with the normal brake fluid.

    4. get the Porsche bucket seats(those on the GT2), they provide a much better side hold for your body and they also lower weight a bit

    5. get the LSD if available for your car

    Not ordering the sunroof may lower weight and add some additional rigidity to your car but it could be a dealbreaker when you want to sell it. Not worth the hassle for just a minimal advantage in performance, if any.

    Before you do everything I said in the upper part, get a decent driver training from a serious training facility/company. There are some black sheeps out there who just collect a bunch of maniacs and allows them to drive a couple of fast rounds on the track. This is crap.

    There are enough serious driving schools out there, incl. the ones offered by Porsche, so don't take your pick based on cost because its the same thing like with everything else in life: you get what you pay for and nothing in life is for free. Smiley

    Sorry for sounding like a school teacher but a fast car doesn't automatically make a fast driver, no matter how much it weights.


    --
    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

    Re: Quoted DIN weights 997GT2

    I agree that weight savings of 40-50 kgs are only for marketing in non-professional cars.

    Take also the driver into account.

    Is a driver weighing 100+ kgs, not unusual in some areas of the world, at such a great disadvantage compared to a 1.70m individual of 65 kgs?


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Quoted DIN weights 997GT2


    3. change the brake fluid with a special race braking fluid(ATE Blue for example) before EACH serious race. After the race, replace it immediately

    why change the race fluid back to normal? Are they much more hydrophobic?

    P.S. I like the new quouting systemSmiley


    Re: Quoted DIN weights 997GT2

    RC:

    1. get Michelin Cup tires, those with N-rating(they allow you to drive safely home after a track day, even on heavy rain), they're pretty good. Better: get a second set of rims/tires for the track only.


    --
    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

    BTW, did anybody have the chance to compare the performance of Michelin PS Cup and Pirelli PZero Corsa (ideally on the GT2)?

     My car came with the Corsas and I have to say that these tires work pretty well (street and track). Are there any opinions on which tires is better? 


    Re: Quoted DIN weights 997GT2

    I wholly agree with RC, save for the brake fluid. ATE Blue is nowhere near adequate for racing. I would recommend Motul RBF 600 or Castrol SRF. Neither needs to be changed more often than annually.

     The tire recommendation of the Pilot Cups (std on the GT2) is doubly important as not only is there more grip, but the amount of weight saved by using a Cup vs std street tires offered by Porsche is near 1-2kg per corner. This 1-2kg though is more dramatic than the PCCB as the weight is further from the axis of rotation than the PCCB rotors - unsprung mass effect is greater.


    --

    track vid

    0-300kph

    chasing a 997GT2




    Re: Quoted DIN weights 997GT2

    Guys. this thread is about WTF is Porsche doing quoting DIN weights for cars when the ones we can actually buy are 50+kg heavier !!

    Porsche used to quote DIN weights spot on but seem to have developed a nasty habit of quoting DIN weights for some elusive non spec car which doesn't seem to exist....

    The GT2 is supposed to be 1440kg DIN, mine has the VTS which needs a heavier battery, and PSM, rear parking sensors, apart from this it is poverty spec - why shouldn't it weigh close to the 1440kg quoted ?Smiley


    Re: Quoted DIN weights 997GT2

    I believe they quote weights for the very basic car without any optional extras and even without equipment that can be optionally deleted like a/c or PCM etc.

    In the past specification was more standardised and there were hardly any options to choose from.

    My explanation!


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Quoted DIN weights 997GT2

    eclou:

    I wholly agree with RC, save for the brake fluid. ATE Blue is nowhere near adequate for racing. I would recommend Motul RBF 600 or Castrol SRF. Neither needs to be changed more often than annually.

     The tire recommendation of the Pilot Cups (std on the GT2) is doubly important as not only is there more grip, but the amount of weight saved by using a Cup vs std street tires offered by Porsche is near 1-2kg per corner. This 1-2kg though is more dramatic than the PCCB as the weight is further from the axis of rotation than the PCCB rotors - unsprung mass effect is greater.


    --

    track vid

    0-300kph

    chasing a 997GT2



    Any view regarding Michelin PS Cup vs. Pirelli PZero Corsa on the GT2? BTW, the GT2 comes with two standard tires (MS Cup and PZero Corsa). Mine was equipped with the Corsas - which I do like. However, I still lack comparison to the Cups...

     
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