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    Fernando Alonso retires from F1

    Fernando Alonso: McLaren's Spanish driver to retire from Formula 1 at end of season

    http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/11472114/fernando-alonso-retires-from-formula-1


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: Fernando Alonso retires from F1

    Here's the McLaren release:

    https://www.mclaren.com/formula1/team/fernando-alonso/mclaren-confirms-fernando-alonso-decision/

    I guess it's time.


    Re: Fernando Alonso retires from F1

    Without the prospect of a competitive car there is no reason for someone like him to race in F1 going at 110% just to get past Q2. F1 is a sham of what it was, winners are predetermined before the season even starts and the championship is available to a couple of drivers, sometimes not even that. As soon as he raced Indy and later Le Mans, F1 was over for him, he had fun unlike F1, enjoyed the fans and the ambient, he had no interest in F1 anymore, he doesn't need the money and cant cant compete to win either so he is on to other competitions that at least are fun and competitive.


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Fernando Alonso retires from F1

    https://www.planetf1.com/news/massa-alonso-is-as-talented-as-schumacher/


    --

    2018 White 911 GT3


    Re: Fernando Alonso retires from F1

    Gauss:

    https://www.planetf1.com/news/massa-alonso-is-as-talented-as-schumacher/

    It doesn't make sense to speculate who is how talented. In the end only facts (world championships) make the difference. F1 is a tough business as most other businesses Smiley


    Re: Fernando Alonso retires from F1

    MKSGR:
    Gauss:

    https://www.planetf1.com/news/massa-alonso-is-as-talented-as-schumacher/

    It doesn't make sense to speculate who is how talented. In the end only facts (world championships) make the difference. F1 is a tough business as most other businesses Smiley

    Concur.  Recall that some to the past F1 greats had cars that were less-than-competitive but their driving skills overcame that handicap.  


    Re: Fernando Alonso retires from F1

    MKSGR:
    Gauss:

    https://www.planetf1.com/news/massa-alonso-is-as-talented-as-schumacher/

    It doesn't make sense to speculate who is how talented. In the end only facts (world championships) make the difference. F1 is a tough business as most other businesses Smiley

    Championships make even less of a difference, while factual they are not remotely relevant to who is the better driver in equal conditions, simply because championship results are precisely that, unequal conditions mostly biased by the car you drive. So they make even less sense than a subjective judgment on driver talent extrapolating the results on what they would be on equal condition, especially one form an other F1 driver who drove side by side to them both.

    So while yes, championship wins are factual data, a number, it only tells what it tells, championship wins, nothing more, its has only entertainment value as it cannot be minimally correlated to driver talent, not by a long shot in a competition where there are so many other variables that have not been controlled and are even more important than driver talent itself. 

    The bottom line is, we will never know. All we have is our own, very subjective, opinions. 

    One thing is for sure, in the case of Alonso he may be regarded as one of the best inside the track, but he is the all-time dumbest at making decisions outside the track in choosing teams, that is a fact! Smiley
    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Fernando Alonso retires from F1

    CGX car nut:
    MKSGR:
    Gauss:

    https://www.planetf1.com/news/massa-alonso-is-as-talented-as-schumacher/

    It doesn't make sense to speculate who is how talented. In the end only facts (world championships) make the difference. F1 is a tough business as most other businesses Smiley

    Concur.  Recall that some to the past F1 greats had cars that were less-than-competitive but their driving skills overcame that handicap.  

    Yeah, in the 50's maybe... no driver history could win a championship today with a Toro Rosso, Renault, McLaren or Force india Smiley


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Fernando Alonso retires from F1

    Carlos from Spain:
    CGX car nut:
    MKSGR:
    Gauss:

    https://www.planetf1.com/news/massa-alonso-is-as-talented-as-schumacher/

    It doesn't make sense to speculate who is how talented. In the end only facts (world championships) make the difference. F1 is a tough business as most other businesses Smiley

    Concur.  Recall that some to the past F1 greats had cars that were less-than-competitive but their driving skills overcame that handicap.  

    Yeah, in the 50's maybe... no driver history could win a championship today with a Toro Rosso, Renault, McLaren or Force india Smiley


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

    I bet Hamilton and Vettel would still be competitive in a Toro Rosso or Force India car.  We will also find out how Ricciardo will do next season with Renault but then again he hasn't been a championship contender.


    Re: Fernando Alonso retires from F1

    I don't know if you are joking or being serious...


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Fernando Alonso retires from F1

    In sport there are many talents who haven't achieved according to their abilities. Alonso is a prime example.

    His only chance for another title was in 2007 when McLaren-Mercedes donated the championship to Raikkonen. However, even in that year Alonso couldn't outperform newcomer Hamilton.

    Sport and F1 in particular is not fair. Vettel has 4 titles and Alonso only 2, ages ago, after being active for 17 years. And what about F1 champion Button when many brilliant drivers never had a chance to have a go at a title?

    Alonso was merely a victim of bad luck or he was also to blame?


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    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: Fernando Alonso retires from F1

    reginos:

    Alonso was merely a victim of bad luck or he was also to blame?

    A little bit of both in my opinion. Regardless he is an outstanding talent but a grumpy old toad in person.


    Re: Fernando Alonso retires from F1

    He made one bad team choice after another for his whole career save for Renault at the beginning, that may not be related to driver talent but still his own fault IMO. Had he accepted RBR's offer back in the day, we would be talking anout a 6+ world champion... hindsight is 20/20 but he always chose the wrong team way too many times for it to be just bad luck IMO. 

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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Fernando Alonso retires from F1

    Alonso won't be racing in F1 in 2019 but he hasn't used the word "retirement" from F1 deliberately. Only journalists have done so. He has kept open the theoretical but unlikely possibility of returning to McLaren if they are competitive again in the future. He should win WEC in 2018. He could win the Indy 500 & IndyCar in 2019. F1 is unfinished business for him. Perhaps he will return in 2020 when McLaren remember how to build fast F1 cars again.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/45189980

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    997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red

     


    Re: Fernando Alonso retires from F1

    Good point Easy


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Fernando Alonso retires from F1

    easy_rider911:

    Alonso won't be racing in F1 in 2019 but he hasn't used the word "retirement" from F1 deliberately. Only journalists have done so. He has kept open the theoretical but unlikely possibility of returning to McLaren if they are competitive again in the future. He should win WEC in 2018. He could win the Indy 500 & IndyCar in 2019. F1 is unfinished business for him. Perhaps he will return in 2020 when McLaren remember how to build fast F1 cars again.

    A F1 comeback at 40? Time waits for no one.

    Winning LM and WEC in 2018 is a very lame achievement in view of the competition.  As to Indy cars, I would say so what? People like Bourdais and Zanardi were multiple champions in American racing but null in F1.

    Unfortunately for him and the fans, Alonso has missed out.

     

     


    --

     

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     


    Re: Fernando Alonso retires from F1

    Agreed, if winning Le Mans or Indy 500 (and by extension WEC or IndyCar) were his only achievements. However, Alonso is out to prove that he is somehow a more "complete" driver than anyone else so these achievements are just more feathers to add to his cap (that already contains 2 drivers F1 titles which Alex Rossi & Sébastien Bourdais don't have).

    But I tend to agree with the wider picture you portray. Alonso is somehow trying to fill a F1 shaped hole in his resumé with wins & titles in other championships. It's an exercise in personal consolation, trying somehow to reconcile himself to the reality that his silverware cabinet in F1 does not quite match his undoubted talent.

    As for returning at 39 or 40, Schumi came back at 41. He wasn't the same though but he hadn't been driving competitively while away from F1. Alonso, on the other hand, will be doing that. Good luck to him. It's better he wins in IndyCar than brings up the rear in F1. It will keep him sharp and ready to come back if he so wishes.

    Alonso made too many bad choices about where and when to move but also teams got burnt dealing with him. It's particularly humiliating that Red Bull's Christian Horner recently ruled out speculation about signing Alonso following Ricciardo's announced move to Renault for 2019 by saying that Alonso "leaves chaos wherever he goes". Alonso didn't deserve to be kicked while he is down but Horner isn't much of a gentleman.

    --

    997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red

     


    Re: Fernando Alonso retires from F1

    Carlos from Spain:
    MKSGR:
    Gauss:

    https://www.planetf1.com/news/massa-alonso-is-as-talented-as-schumacher/

    It doesn't make sense to speculate who is how talented. In the end only facts (world championships) make the difference. F1 is a tough business as most other businesses Smiley

    Championships make even less of a difference, while factual they are not remotely relevant to who is the better driver in equal conditions, simply because championship results are precisely that, unequal conditions mostly biased by the car you drive. So they make even less sense than a subjective judgment on driver talent extrapolating the results on what they would be on equal condition, especially one form an other F1 driver who drove side by side to them both.

    So while yes, championship wins are factual data, a number, it only tells what it tells, championship wins, nothing more, its has only entertainment value as it cannot be minimally correlated to driver talent, not by a long shot in a competition where there are so many other variables that have not been controlled and are even more important than driver talent itself. 

    The bottom line is, we will never know. All we have is our own, very subjective, opinions. 

    One thing is for sure, in the case of Alonso he may be regarded as one of the best inside the track, but he is the all-time dumbest at making decisions outside the track in choosing teams, that is a fact! Smiley
    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

    While I see your logic Alonso is the best counter-example: he just did not get it right when it was time to chose to best team. Are other drivers better who had a better ability to decide for the best team? I would say that this ability is a key quality of a formula 1 driver Smiley


    Re: Fernando Alonso retires from F1

    That is kind of far fetched, choosing which team to sign with has more to do with luck and business sense than driving talent.

    When describing a great Formula 1 driver you do it by saying.. "he was the best at choosing teams"...

    In fact, quite the opposite, some f1 champs are not regarded as great drivers because their only merit was to choose the right team at the right time which is what gave them that championship without really being a great driver.

    That said, I always wondered how Alonso could get it so wrong every time when choosing teams. Wonder if it was because he did not listen to advice and thought he knew better, or because he never had good advice from those around him, I rather think it's the former but who knows.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Fernando Alonso retires from F1

    Carlos from Spain:

    That is kind of far fetched, choosing which team to sign with has more to do with luck and business sense than driving talent.

    When describing a great Formula 1 driver you do it by saying.. "he was the best at choosing teams"...

    In fact, quite the opposite, some f1 champs are not regarded as great drivers because their only merit was to choose the right team at the right time which is what gave them that championship without really being a great driver.

    That said, I always wondered how Alonso could get it so wrong every time when choosing teams. Wonder if it was because he did not listen to advice and thought he knew better, or because he never had good advice from those around him, I rather think it's the former but who knows.

    To me it seems obvious that Alonso and Schumacher are in two different leagues. It does make a difference how many chmapionships were won. In fact, after some time has elapsed this is most likel the only criterion people will look at. The rest will be forgotten at some stage...


    Re: Fernando Alonso retires from F1

    Maybe he went with the money...


    Re: Fernando Alonso retires from F1

    I think JV is the king of bad decisions with regard to picking teams, although he certainly was loyal.


    Re: Fernando Alonso retires from F1

    MKSGR:

    To me it seems obvious that Alonso and Schumacher are in two different leagues. It does make a difference how many chmapionships were won. In fact, after some time has elapsed this is most likel the only criterion people will look at. The rest will be forgotten at some stage...

    I am not too good with all the exact wins etc., but as I understood it, Schumacher was absolutely in a world of his own when it comes to feeling the car, analyzing it and communicating that information to the team. When Schumacher won with Ferrari, he had made the car and the team great. Whilst I think Alonso might be just as good a driver, I don’t think he has the skills to pull the team together and lift their performance with his skills and personality.


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    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


    Re: Fernando Alonso retires from F1

    JoeRockhead:

    I think JV is the king of bad decisions with regard to picking teams, although he certainly was loyal.

     

    He thinks he can make a slow car fast. Sort of like all real racers. 

    Some always blame the car but he isn't one of those.

    Right now he is peeved that I did Pikes Peak and he didn't. I told him before and he thought I was joking. Smiley

    I am trying to to work something out for him perhaps next year, it's one thing he hasn't done yet. Say tuned :)

     


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