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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    MKSGR:
    Whoopsy:

    Those customers don't actually have a choice. If Tesla fails then their money goes up in smoke. So in order to assure they can have their cars made, they have to pay him money to keep Tesla afloat.

    The more they give the safer their money invest is Smiley

    TSLA is down 7.23% today in trading and has erased approximately $8 billion in market capitalization over the past two days.  A number of stories on Bloomberg, Reuters and the business news outlets are suggesting that 1) the Model 3 target goals were met at the expense of Model S production and 2) quality measures were eliminated over the past few days.  Musk, over the weekend, was cheering the fact that they had eliminated 300 spot welds last week with NO noticeable difference in BIW quality!  One wonders about the durability and FEA testing conducted before if this statement is anywhere near factual.  Several employees also have reported the Mr. Musk was quite testy early Sunday morning when the goal was imperiled.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    MKSGR:
    Whoopsy:

    Those customers don't actually have a choice. If Tesla fails then their money goes up in smoke. So in order to assure they can have their cars made, they have to pay him money to keep Tesla afloat.

    The more they give the safer their money invest is Smiley

     

    This actually works with bank loans, if you borrow a big enough sum, the bank will ensure your company's survival in order to repay them Smiley


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    TSLA stock price should reasonably settle down in the 260-280 range in the near term. Still way over priced but that's seems to be the support level for most. It should be at most around $140 for a proper valuation though.

    Not taking into account of what Elon might say or do to prop up the stock prices artificially.


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Carlos from Spain:

    To be fair, the Renault Zoe is a 2 seater golfcar with fixed roof, could hardly be considered a car.


    Carlos, you mixed up the Zoe...

    ... with the Twizy:

    But talking about the Twizy: I think this kind of "car" (if you want to call it a car) are the only one where full electric makes sense. Smiley


    --

     

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Rossi:
    Carlos from Spain:

    To be fair, the Renault Zoe is a 2 seater golfcar with fixed roof, could hardly be considered a car.


    Carlos, you mixed up the Zoe...

     

    ... with the Twizy:

    Thanks Rossi, indeed I seem to have! my mistake Smiley


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Carlos from Spain:
    Rossi:
    Carlos from Spain:

    To be fair, the Renault Zoe is a 2 seater golfcar with fixed roof, could hardly be considered a car.


    Carlos, you mixed up the Zoe...

     

    ... with the Twizy:

    Thanks Rossi, indeed I seem to have! my mistake Smiley

    mixing the Twizy with the Zoe is like R8 and sport car bud...Smiley

     


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I would think part of the rationale for going fully to the non-refundable deposits is the fact that they were raked last quarter on the conversion of initial deposits to people actually taking the cars. This puts some certainty around that, otherwise you would have had a huge band of analyst estimates for conversion rates (or they would have had to issue guidance on probably an inherently noisy metric).

    And they will have absolutely zero problems with issuing equity if needed. I"m sure there are enough short hedgies that would look to cover as well as normal institutional investors. They could also do another unsecured note but I think they'd probably have to pay more than the last one's 5.3% and that's a little egg on face.  


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I would not worry for a second that a single deposit will be lost due to the car not being built eventually. Thank god I was not day trading in Tesla these last couple of days but I’m always watching it. It can be a money pump. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    As said before, trading Tesla is not for the faint of heart.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nkqMZBR-ak

    Overheated after 1.5 laps

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Topspeed:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nkqMZBR-ak

    Overheated after 1.5 laps

     

    Good thing this is a race prepped version.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Cause the regular one overheat in 0.5 laps.


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Probably a good autocross car though. 


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Mithras:

    Probably a good autocross car though. 

    As long as it isn’t too hot outside or the course too long.  Charging at some locations could be problematic too.  The Tesla Cult is already criticizing Audi’s effort before the official data is released for having too heavy of a battery packet.  However, Audi, Jaguar, and Porsche have all stated they are employing more robust thermal management systems for their battery packs compared with Tesla’s approach, which is light years ahead of the Nissan Leaf.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Tesla's curent charger, 120kw.They say they will double it to 240kw.

    Porsche's charger, 350kw. Which is also where the industry standard is moving towards with the 800V system.


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    did I read wrong or did they just hit the 5000 model 3  car a week???


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    993 c2


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Even before they did hit the 5,000 mark the hungry media, old school analysts and short sellers had already moved the goal post to the next stupid phantom hurdle. They are still missing the big picture.

    Can’t wait to see more choices and more competition in the EV space. Words are cheap, let’s wait for the real products and the real price points in large volumes.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    Even before they did hit the 5,000 mark the hungry media, old school analysts and short sellers had already moved the goal post to the next stupid phantom hurdle. They are still missing the big picture.

    Can’t wait to see more choices and more competition in the EV space. Words are cheap, let’s wait for the real products and the real price points in large volumes.

    As stated before, the 5,000 Model 3 production target was set by Mr. Musk himself for December 31, 2017.   Then when Tesla missed that goal, Mr. Musk said the company would reach that goal by the end of Q1.   The company missed that goal too so he said they would reach it by June 30th, which they did.

    Other CEOs are held to guidance statements made and Tesla and Musk should similarly be held to the same standards.   That’s what happened.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    https://insideevs.com/electric-gt-tesla-model-s-overheated-after-just-lap-and-a-half/

    Expanding on that race track overheating story.

    It clearly illustrated that Tesla didn't come clean with the race series about the engineering deficit on their battery system.

    Well they can't, cause if they do, the word would get out to the public and the 'trust' that the public has for Tesla being a 'performance' car image will be destroyed.

    The battery system in a Tesla isn't engineered to be used in a high stress environment. As in constant high drain/high charge cycles. Public sort of know that they they do repeated launches and the car goes into limp mode. During normal drag strip times it could be 30 mins between runs or more so the car has time to cool off. Not on a race track lapping though. It can however do the occasional high power launches.

    There is no quick fix. It's bottom neck in their electric system, it simply cannot handle the high current for sustained periods of time. To do that stye will have to scrape the whole system and start over.

    What Porsche did in the incoming Mission E is completely different. They had been racing a hybrid for the longest time, the 918 project also gave them insights into engineering an electric system that can stand repeated high drain/high charge environment without problems. Then there is the constant lapping of the Weissach track during testing. One knows for sure the Mission E will be just as capable as their petrol engine counterpart in high stress environments. 

     

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:

    https://insideevs.com/electric-gt-tesla-model-s-overheated-after-just-lap-and-a-half/

    Expanding on that race track overheating story.

    It clearly illustrated that Tesla didn't come clean with the race series about the engineering deficit on their battery system.

    Well they can't, cause if they do, the word would get out to the public and the 'trust' that the public has for Tesla being a 'performance' car image will be destroyed.

    The battery system in a Tesla isn't engineered to be used in a high stress environment. As in constant high drain/high charge cycles. Public sort of know that they they do repeated launches and the car goes into limp mode. During normal drag strip times it could be 30 mins between runs or more so the car has time to cool off. Not on a race track lapping though. It can however do the occasional high power launches.

    There is no quick fix. It's bottom neck in their electric system, it simply cannot handle the high current for sustained periods of time. To do that stye will have to scrape the whole system and start over.

    What Porsche did in the incoming Mission E is completely different. They had been racing a hybrid for the longest time, the 918 project also gave them insights into engineering an electric system that can stand repeated high drain/high charge environment without problems. Then there is the constant lapping of the Weissach track during testing. One knows for sure the Mission E will be just as capable as their petrol engine counterpart in high stress environments. 

     

     

    This is yet a litany of issues resulting from a rushed and ill-thought out development program.  I've read enough messages from the numerous Tesla cult sites that they believe everything can be modeled on the computer without real world validation.  Testing, testing, and testing are needed for any product entering commercialization; Tesla skipped this step. 

    Lately the Tesla cultists have mocked Audi for 1) creating vaporware as the e-tron is being rigorously tested, 2) having a less-than-aerodynamic shape when compared to the Model X, and 3) having old-fashioned air vents in the interior compared with the hi-tech Model 3.   Audi is shrewdly making public its testing program to stress how its first mass produced foray into EVs differs from Tesla, where the purchaser remains the beta, if not the alpha tester.  That so-called less-than-aerodynamic shape of the e-tron is because Audi, and Porsche, understand the need for proper battery thermal management.  These large batteries require significant cooling and heating systems that are more complex than many of the systems found on ICE vehicles.  Tesla, when compared to the Nissan Leaf, appears as the paragon of battery thermal management, but in actual service conditions, Tesla still fails short of what consumers demand from their automobiles.  Finally, with regard to the interior air vents, if something works, why change it for designs that increase complexity, leading to multiple failure routes. 

     

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Of course Tesla customers are beta testers and they know they are, some even love it, what is your point?


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    Of course Tesla customers are beta testers and they know they are, some even love it, what is your point?

    You just confirmed that point.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Was it supposed to be some kind of secret? Do you think people don’t know about this? Of course they do and they mostly love it. They are part of creating something. Same goes for current Tesla shareholders, they just want in at any cost. Rationale does not come in play. Once again, you believe or you don’t, the rest is just blah blah.

    The cars have OTA updates like an iPhone or a computer, people expect things to be fixed, updated and get better. Tesla are more a gadget an an appliance to buyer.  Have you ever tried to retrofit something to a Porsche? I have several times, their answer was “buy an new car” Smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    Was it supposed to be some kind of secret? Do you think people don’t know about this? Of course they do and they mostly love it. They are part of creating something. Same goes for current Tesla shareholders, they just want in at any cost. Rationale does not come in play. Once again, you believe or you don’t, the rest is just blah blah.

    The cars have OTA updates like an iPhone or a computer, people expect things to be fixed, updated and get better. Tesla are more a gadget an an appliance to buyer.  Have you ever tried to retrofit something to a Porsche? I have several times, their answer was “buy an new car” Smiley

    This will change with other manufacturers as well. Tesla was a pioneer in this domain but they won't be for long.

    I can imagine various software features which can be unlocked for a fee, maybe even only on a temporary basis when needed. Don't think that Tesla is the only company understanding software and how to exploit/play with it. You'd be surprised.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    RC, you and other have seen some of the future and roadmap of VW. But some of that will be obscured when the beans counters will put their hands in it. Once again, Tesla is far from perfect and needs to learn A LOT in many areas, but it is not a vaporware product with no price tag. I am very curious to see what the next 3 years will bring on the market.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    Was it supposed to be some kind of secret? Do you think people don’t know about this? Of course they do and they mostly love it. They are part of creating something. Same goes for current Tesla shareholders, they just want in at any cost. Rationale does not come in play. Once again, you believe or you don’t, the rest is just blah blah.

    The cars have OTA updates like an iPhone or a computer, people expect things to be fixed, updated and get better. Tesla are more a gadget an an appliance to buyer.  Have you ever tried to retrofit something to a Porsche? I have several times, their answer was “buy an new car” Smiley

     

    When iPhone crashed, people don't lose their lives.

    When Telsla's autopilot crashed, people dies.

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:
    SciFrog:

    Was it supposed to be some kind of secret? Do you think people don’t know about this? Of course they do and they mostly love it. They are part of creating something. Same goes for current Tesla shareholders, they just want in at any cost. Rationale does not come in play. Once again, you believe or you don’t, the rest is just blah blah.

    The cars have OTA updates like an iPhone or a computer, people expect things to be fixed, updated and get better. Tesla are more a gadget an an appliance to buyer.  Have you ever tried to retrofit something to a Porsche? I have several times, their answer was “buy an new car” Smiley

     

    When iPhone crashed, people don't lose their lives.

    When Telsla's autopilot crashed, people dies.

     

    Likewise, a hacked iPhone is an inconvenience versus a hacked OTA updatable Tesla.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    It never ends, this company is like a bad soap opera

    https://jalopnik.com/elon-musk-told-workers-tesla-would-allow-them-to-unioni-1827555608


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    RC, you and other have seen some of the future and roadmap of VW. But some of that will be obscured when the beans counters will put their hands in it. Once again, Tesla is far from perfect and needs to learn A LOT in many areas, but it is not a vaporware product with no price tag. I am very curious to see what the next 3 years will bring on the market.

    I've seen some stuff at Audi and I know a bit about what Porsche is planning (setting aside the current Mission E stuff).

    I am impressed, I like it, I am pretty sure I did get only a glimpse (which means there is much more to look forward to) but I still think that it is too early for that. We'll see...

    The problem with "too early" is simple: If the products don't sell (well), then this would jeopardize the whole future of these cars and the tech behind it. Tesla found a niche market in my opinion, not sure where the premium VW Group products will fit in. Will be interesting...

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Musk, showing his humanitarian side, calls Thai cave diver hero a pedophile:  https://www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/remysmidt/elon-musk-attacks-diver-who-helped-rescue-thai-boys?utm_term=.kplM9WMzYv&__twitter_impression=true

    Takes a special person to lash out like he has.

     


     
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