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    Tesla thread N°3

    Since the Tesla thread seems to not work anymore and did not show new posts without giving an error message (probably because it's become too large?) I created a new one, the third one, to continue here and 


    Re: Tesla thread N°3

    "Tesla owner locked out of his car until he pays $26,000 for a new battery"

    He had purchased the Tesla in 2013, but the models from that year and 2014 have an issue where fluid leaks onto the battery, which can cause huge problems.

    The video showed that the car had locked itself automatically after the battery had died. With no power for the doors, there was no getting in.

    Things got so bad that he decided to sell the car, as he didn't think it was worth the high price tag for a replacement.

    There was just one problem. The proof of ownership papers for the vehicle were, you guessed it, inside the car.

    https://www.unilad.com/technology/news/tesla-owner-locked-out-battery-605789-20231218


    Re: Tesla thread N°3

    Selling a turd on to the next guy isn’t very nice…

    Karma is a bitch…


    Re: Tesla thread N°3

    Carlos from Spain:

    "Tesla owner locked out of his car until he pays $26,000 for a new battery"

    He had purchased the Tesla in 2013, but the models from that year and 2014 have an issue where fluid leaks onto the battery, which can cause huge problems.

    The video showed that the car had locked itself automatically after the battery had died. With no power for the doors, there was no getting in.

    Things got so bad that he decided to sell the car, as he didn't think it was worth the high price tag for a replacement.

    There was just one problem. The proof of ownership papers for the vehicle were, you guessed it, inside the car.

    https://www.unilad.com/technology/news/tesla-owner-locked-out-battery-605789-20231218

    Unilad is one of the crappiest news sites on the internet, they only use old, inaccurate and often even fake news from other sources. IGNORE them in the future.

    The story about this Tesla owner is almost 2 years old and Tesla has already found a solution for this guy.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Tesla thread N°3

    Bulletproof but still succumbs to the vagaries of the road. https://www.motor1.com/news/702666/first-tesla-cybertruck-crash-photos-and-video/


    Re: Tesla thread N°3

    “Oh what fresh hell is this?”


    Re: Tesla thread N°3

    https://www.autoevolution.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-charging-curve-confirms-the-4680-cell-suspected-poor-charging-performance-22... "The Cybertruck wanted to charge around 40 minutes, and sometimes even 55 minutes, to cover sub-150-mile (240 km) legs."

    Re: Tesla thread N°3

    I received this article this morning on the Cybertruck. 
     

    https://www.fastcompany.com/90945689/teslas-cybertruck-has-a-serious-problem-that-only-a-complete-redesign-can-fix?utm_source=newsletters&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=FC%20-%20Compass%20Newsletter.Newsletter%20-%20FC%20-%20Compass%201-2-24&leadId=642173&mkt_tok=NjEwLUxFRS04NzIAAAGQaTBF8OvMCesA4V8-TsS2uARYWnXmPY3HoXv4UIFJ8EGnLZSPTlZaWhBSSwCa7xojDuNYnLt1_Pt3iLsNP1DpiKoOXTfGDL7Fv3MAbSN8

    Not often do I defend Musk and his numerous follies but the author, and the experts he relied upon, are off-base as the panels are not stamped.  Instead the stainless steel panels are cut from straightened sheets using lasers.  The bends are formed using a brake press which eliminates the issues of stamping to shape.  Totally different processes and different outcomes.  


    Re: Tesla thread N°3

    Carlos from Spain:
    https://www.autoevolution.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-charging-curve-confirms-the-4680-cell-suspected-poor-charging-performance-22... "The Cybertruck wanted to charge around 40 minutes, and sometimes even 55 minutes, to cover sub-150-mile (240 km) legs."

     

    Chronic under development, or lack of priority for cooling, heat dissipation, for the electronics. Tesla simply just doesn't pay enough attention to the supporting electronics. 

    The inverter, onboard charger, battery management system, onboard circuits all need proper cooling in order to maintain a high rate of charging speed. One time I had a discussion with a Porsche engineer about the speed of charging, on how the Taycan can be charged up so fast. The secret is keeping the supporting system cool, the battery itself is secondary. Tesla advertise a really high peak speed, but that cannot be maintained and gets ramped down almost immediately on every single model, their sustain speed is only a fraction of the peak speed because of the heat load. Once the supporting system is loaded and situated with heat, they have no choice but to quickly ramp down, not unlike modern computer cpus, they have a high burst peak frequency, but that cannot be maintained, it will ramp down to a frequency that can be sustained within the thermal limit. This isn't sexy or headline grabbing, as the sustained charging speed even on the Taycan is still going to be lower than the peak, yet Porsche do pay attention to that detail as it will benefit the end user. 

    End user is something Elon and Tesla doesn't really cared for. 


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    Re: Tesla thread N°3

    Entirely logical, thanks Nick


    Re: Tesla thread N°3

     

    Out of Spec Reviews finally got a chance to test the Cybertruck's charging curve. Graph at 28:36, can't post pics again. 

    Well, as usual it ain't pretty. Miserable actually. Just like any other Tesla products. 

    It will maintain the 'advertised' 250kW of power from 0-about 25%, then the bottom quickly dropped off a cliff, by 40% it's barely above 140kW. It's below 100kW by 60%. 

    They seriously need to address the thermal issue with their electronics. A 6 year old Audi e-Tron can practically do 0-90 at 160kW straight through. We haven't even gotten to the hyper speed charging of the 800V cars like Taycan and Hyundai/KIAs. 

    The Cybertruck is 'advertised' as a 800V class EV, so 'next gen'. But it will only operate at 800V but drops back to 400V when charging. Those higher amperage at the low voltage really hurt the product. 

     

     


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    Re: Tesla thread N°3

    I’ll give credit to Musk and Tesla for nearing 2 million units delivered in 2023.  That’s quite an achievement.  However, as written before, Musk has also harmed the company as he myopically forces the company to follow only his direction.  How can an alleged state of the art 800V architecture charge so poorly?  Even the vaunted Supercharger network isn’t the paragon of stability and reliability many state it is. For example, in the nearby commercial district a second Supercharger location was built. Not sure if it in addition to or supplanting the older existing one at the mall.  But the new location, which was open since the middle of December, has had cars abandoned for days at the chargers.  A few days ago, there were work crews dismantling the newly installed units and replacing significant portions of the internal components. 



    Re: Tesla thread N°3

    95% of the current Superchargers are not capable of delivering more than 400V, only the latest V3 with updates can do that. Tesla have a long way to go to update all their chargers to 800V. 

    Clever strategy really, as car manufacturers have mostly settled on the Tesla plug in the North American market going forward, so even the 800V class cars like Taycan and the Koreans will have their excellent charging speed neutered, thus making Tesla's own cars looks better. Elon doesn't want another brand's car charging twice as fast as his own cars on the same charger after all. 

     

     


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    Re: Tesla thread N°3

    And Jason at Engineering Explained debunked another Elon lie. With basic math. 

    Gotta love math, math never lies.

    Jason isn't even a Tesla hater, he is a Tesla owner and love his. 

     


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    Re: Tesla thread N°3

    And Jason is an engineer unlike Musk, who just pretends to be one.


    Re: Tesla thread N°3

    Carlos from Spain:

    And Jason is an engineer unlike Musk, who just pretends to be one.

    He’s off with a number of calculations and ideas in many of his videos.  Even in this video, the math applied is wildly simplistic as vehicle dynamic models aren’t to difficult to develop that can run numerous simulations of the race with more realistic outcomes. 


    Re: Tesla thread N°3

    You are missing the point. 

    Jason aren't writing a PhD paper, he is trying to simplify things into simple math that normal human being can understands. There is no need to have precise at all, just back of the napkin rough calculations is perfectly fine enough. He isn't trying to land a shuttle on the moon.

    He is an engineer, if he wanted to, he could do the hyper precise math and calculations, but what for? of course he can use math to calculate how much extra time the Cybertruck needed to get to 1/4 mile from 1/8 mile on top of those seconds, but is there a need when the basic math already showed the Cybertruck can't do it, no need to egg on the Tesla even more.

     


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    Re: Tesla thread N°3

    I am not missing the point.  Many of his analyses fall short of giving a correct answer and often he is deep in the weeds with the approaches and explanations he attempts to exposit.  Acceleration runs, as you should be aware, are highly nonlinear and have many factors including aerodynamic drag and torque curves that affect the outcome.  These effects are neglected in his overly simplistic approaches where reliable of his outcomes are questionable. 


    Re: Tesla thread N°3

    Exactly why you are missing the point. 

    Those really details stuff really isn't needed, maybe if the difference are milliseconds, or fractions of an inch, but they aren't. 

    He isn't doing 'close' comparisons where those tiny details come into play. For his published comparisons, all those details you are asking are lost in the rounding errors. 

    Really not unlike car journalists doing performance tests on cars, do one really cared if one car was tested @25 degree and the other tested at 25.3 degree? Or the first run is at 65% humidity and the second run is at 67% humidity? Do they even make a big enough difference? Or this tester drop the clutch at 3253 rpm and the other at 3301 rpm so one run is not valid?

     


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    Re: Tesla thread N°3

    He hasn’t covered anything new since it was known that Tesla rigged the test and video of the race by using the vehicles crossing the 1/8 mile mark the following day after the Cybertruck debut.  That’s the issue; EE adds literally nothing to the discourse. 
     

    Here’s a story about Tesla cars having charging issues around Chicago as temperatures plummeted to subzero over the weekend. https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/chicago-area-tesla-charging-stations-lined-with-dead-cars-in-freezing-cold-a-bunch-of-dead-robots-out-here


    Re: Tesla thread N°3

    What Tesla’s Chief Engineer said about the race between the Cybertruck and 911.  According to him it was based on a simulation because the trailer tires were only rated for 80 mph. https://insideevs.com/news/704662/tesla-cybertruck-not-faster-quarter/


    Re: Tesla thread N°3

    CGX car nut:

    He hasn’t covered anything new since it was known that Tesla rigged the test and video of the race by using the vehicles crossing the 1/8 mile mark the following day after the Cybertruck debut.  That’s the issue; EE adds literally nothing to the discourse. 
     

    Here’s a story about Tesla cars having charging issues around Chicago as temperatures plummeted to subzero over the weekend. https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/chicago-area-tesla-charging-stations-lined-with-dead-cars-in-freezing-cold-a-bunch-of-dead-robots-out-here


    What a mess, Tesla’s engineering gives me a strong “fake it ‘til you make it” vibe.

    Re: Tesla thread N°3

    CGX car nut:

    Here’s a story about Tesla cars having charging issues around Chicago as temperatures plummeted to subzero over the weekend. https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/chicago-area-tesla-charging-stations-lined-with-dead-cars-in-freezing-cold-a-bunch-of-dead-robots-out-here

     

    Not to interfere with the Tesla bashing, but this is an electric vehicle issue, not just Tesla.  It was below zero (<-18C) from Saturday until after CGX's post, so anything parked outdoors would have had trouble.  I'm sure there were plenty of dead ICE cars at O'Hare and plenty of dead electrics from other brands, its just easier to dump on Tesla.

    Just to keep it light, here's my weather app, below zero the icons apparently turn to igloos:

    igloos.jpg


    Re: Tesla thread N°3

    Many are missing important pieces from these articles, and while ICE cars have issues, the primary cause is older lead acid batteries failing in the cold weather. So this is primarily a maintenance issue. However, with the EVs, and the stories focused on Tesla, was a combination of problems including breakdown of charging facilities as well as a loss of capacity based simply on it being cold.  That’s true with ICEs, and if the battery is good repair, almost all ICE’s will start and operate in these colder conditions. Lubricants and fuel injection systems are designed to operate within these conditions.  Again, a primary issue with EVs is that the battery relies on chemical reactions that slow under cold weather.  That’s just the science behind it. 


    Re: Tesla thread N°3

    A fairly comprehensive and relatively accurate article on EVs and the Chicago winter. https://insideevs.com/news/705057/chicago-tesla-stranded-ev-charging/


    Re: Tesla thread N°3

    Kyle with Out of Spec Review has an excellent video on the Chicago situation. https://youtu.be/K64HQ5ZPfdQ?si=7hvGKEpZFf1FX0rV


    Re: Tesla thread N°3

    After owning so many different EVs for the last 6 years or so, I can't stress enough that infrastructure expansion is the key to EVs, be it the grid or the chargers, both are super important.

    Some people have the misconception that battery is what's holding EVs back, it's not. Who needs a 400 mile heavy battery pack when there are chargers every 20 miles or 50 miles and can fill up the car in 5 mins? Downsize the battery pack and the car becomes lighter and more efficient. 

    And EVs REALLY isn't for everyone. It's not the perfect car. Different people have different use cases and there are more suitable cars. Why would someone use a EV for a long road trips when the infrastructure isn't there yet? It's like taking a 911 to Home Depot for 4x8s. Yeah it's 'doable' and some just want to 'prove a point', but why? There are plenty more options that's better suited. 

    There are specific cases that fit's a EV's usage profile, those that live inside the city and doing mostly city trips. Ride share is another. School runs, work commute are another candidates. 

    We are still decades aways from EVs getting to mainstream 


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    Re: Tesla thread N°3

    Continuing the thought that EV are not for everyone. Last week my rental was an EV….the next morning it was snowy. In the first two blocks I ended up skidding twice due to aggressive regenerative breaking. No way to reset it. I went back to the hotel and worked from the hotel that day. Not exactly the experience I was looking for when I traveled to meet people in person. And expecting people to retrain their decades of bad weather driving skills in real time is dangerous. I might eventually buy one but never ever again as a rental in denver in the winter. 


    Re: Tesla thread N°3

    Sounds like an inappropriate tire for the conditions issue.

    My wife's Tesla Model S P100D drives like a dream in the snow with winter tires installed.


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    Mike

    918 Spyder + 992 Dakar + 992 GT3 Touring + Taycan GTS ST + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + BMWs (Z8 + 3.0 CSi) + Bentley Arnage T


     
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