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    Re: McLaren's little secret

    Look, 8th gear do not exist.

    Emission? At over 300km/h? Are you serious?

    So, reason for "hidden" 8th gear is low emissions at over 300km/h?

    Ha,ha, ha!

    Re: McLaren's little secret

    I doubt that there is a real 8th gear designed just for over 300 km/h. It would add weight, make packaging more difficult and increase costs and just for decreasing emissions in the 0,01% of owners that may  possibly ever put the car at that speed at one time or another? 


    --


    Re: McLaren's little secret

    Software bug...? smiley


    Re: McLaren's little secret

    Carlos from Spain:

    I doubt that there is a real 8th gear designed just for over 300 km/h. It would add weight, make packaging more difficult and increase costs and just for decreasing emissions in the 0,01% of owners that may  possibly ever put the car at that speed at one time or another? 

    Not to mention that car would be illegal in EU with "hidden" 8th gear.

    As you very correctly pointing out 8 spped DCT would be bigger(at least 5cm longer in size) and heavier then current 7 speed DCTs.

    Also, Getrag, Graziano and ZF do NOT have yet commercially ready 8 speed DCT in offer.


    Re: McLaren's little secret

    If 8 comes up in the display (and it is not a photo trick) it is software generated, like I speculated above. A virtual 8th gear not an extra gear in the gearbox.

    Why doesn't one of the 12C owners send an e-mail to Woking to resolve the whole matter?


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: McLaren's little secret

    I think this is a PS from another forum and the one who created it is surely laughing his head off right at the moment.


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: McLaren's little secret

    Rossi:

    I think this is a PS from another forum and the one who created it is surely laughing his head off right at the moment.

    Even if so, it has given someone the idea for a virtual overdrive G8.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: McLaren's little secret

    Why is it only at 6K RPM? Did the RPMs drop when it went from 7 to 8?


    Re: McLaren's little secret

    It's real guys! :)

    From McLarenLife:

    "A Mclaren Tech, who attended the NurBurgRing event, said it was there to drop revs and emissions over 300 kph and would likely be formally used to meet the 2015 Euro emission regs in future gearbox software updates.


    He said the extra weight of the cog was practically irrelevant but Mclaren would get captured by the regulations as they became a 'volume' producer and subject to fines if they missed the emission targets."


    Re: McLaren's little secret

    IMO that is BS. I doubt any of the standard emisions measurements speeds include 300kmh+ tests... few vehicles reach 300km/h... few cars that do are ever run at 300km/h for any significant time... and those speeds are illegal in public roads in most of the world... there is no point in testing at those speeds, even at 200km/h for that matter... the highest speed they test is probably bellow 140km/h.


    --


    Re: McLaren's little secret

    Carlos from Spain:

    IMO that is BS. I doubt any of the standard emisions measurements speeds include 300kmh+ tests... few vehicles reach 300km/h... few cars that do are ever run at 300km/h for any significant time... and those speeds are illegal in public roads in most of the world... there is no point in testing at those speeds, even at 200km/h for that matter... the highest speed they test is probably bellow 140km/h.


    --

    Could that gear not be employed at lower speeds if McLaren updated their software? It could be used to drop rooms at a given speed to reach emission targets if needed I would guess. 

     

     


    Re: McLaren's little secret

    I am with Carlos here.

    Also, what is the point of 8th gear(and I still from various reasons do not belive that 8th gear exist on MP4-12')?

    Specially since 7th gear is soo long on MP4-12C and
    top speed is in 6th gear(333km/h at 6900rpm)?

    Btw, 318km/h at 6300rpm? Look what rpm is at top speed in 6th gear...

    Re: McLaren's little secret

    God, you guys, don't shoot the messenger haha.

    As a owner, I suspect this is a 'soft' 8th gear, as it seems to appear only on the cars with the latest software update.

    But kudos to McLaren to innovate like that.


    Re: McLaren's little secret

    Gnil:

    My brother was yesterday at a McLaren dealer and he told him about this new model . It should be 911 competition .

    Model will be 2015

    He also mentioned a face lift for the MP4 next year, and 650 HP

    Now I don't know if that was dealer BS, but according to my brother , he sounded to be pretty sure 

    Yes, McLaren wants to attack/target Porsche, specifically the 911 with a smaller model in the 120k EUR range.

    This is TRUE, no rumor, car should be ready next year with a launch 2014 or 2015.

    Speaking of targeting Porsche: I just found a VERY nice lease offer from McLaren in my mail, better than Porsche. I was quite surprised, offer was for the Coupe and Spider.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: McLaren's little secret

    Mercedes are also targeting the 911 with an upcoming model. Usually, the numerous "911 beaters" in history,  ultimately fight amongst themselves. 

    IMO, in the market race Porsche have a very big lead over their rivals. They will lose some sales but these will be replaced by new customers from below. The way Porsche are updating their models technically and qualitatively is excellent and  together with the backing of the VW giant their continueed success is guaranteed.

    The more McLaren expand and the more they go relatively mainstream the more problems they will encounter. It is easier to sell a weekend toy than a daily car because in the case of the latter the customer requirements are bigger in the areas of dealerships, parts, reliability etc.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: McLaren's little secret

    My local McLaren dealership is under new leadership (former owner of my current Porsche dealership). This guy is very nice, he knows how to handle customers and I trust him to hurt Porsche badly, especially in Munich (his home turf). With the recent lease offer, McLaren really made exotic supercars accessible to more "ordinary" customers, which is great and could bring them new customers. I have to admit that the temptation is high and if I hadn't ordered the 991 Turbo S already, well...I would have considered the offer twice.
    Not sure however what my wife would have said...she told me that she would get a divorce if I get an exotic car (speaking of the kids, their friends, the neighborhood and so on...which I get). A McLaren would be too much here...unfortunately.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: McLaren's little secret

    Good point your wife makes!

    Not everybody likes the exotic look or the connotations that go with exotic vehicles. This is a Porsche 911/Turbo strong point IMO.  Plenty of speed to challenge the exotics, with a generally acceptable look which at the same time is universally recognizable, acclaimed, historic and iconic.

    if I would buy exotic the only choice nowadays would have been Ferrari. At least with all the cost and inconvenience you buy into a piece of history and a legend. Until the 960 comes along, of course.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: McLaren's little secret

    Atractive lease offers is one side, the question is more if you can drive more than 5000km a year, with that kind of lease... I know quiet a few f and lambo drivers with leasing witch are so km restricted. Dont get it how you can lease a car and just be so restricted to drive because of your Leasing contract


    Re: McLaren's little secret

    The motive is to demonstrate the car rather than drive it  yes


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: McLaren's little secret

    Dario:

    Atractive lease offers is one side, the question is more if you can drive more than 5000km a year, with that kind of lease... I know quiet a few f and lambo drivers with leasing witch are so km restricted. Dont get it how you can lease a car and just be so restricted to drive because of your Leasing contract

     

     

    good point, but here in the US all mclaren leases are open ended, meaning they have unlimited mileage without restrictions, BUT they do have a recommendation of 5k miles a year (as opposed to ferrari's 3500/year). if you exceed the recommendation, chances are the car will be worth less than the residual agreed upon. which brings the point that RC talked about. the 991 turbo S, at least in the US is expected to have a very dismal residual, in line with the 997.2 cars and unlike the good residuals of the 997.1 cars. this leads to a monthly payment very very close to the 12c spider, a car thats 100k more expensive. this was the last nail in the coffin as far as im concerned and it made my decision to get the spider so much easier.

     


    --

    2011 CTT

    2013 12C spider

    2013 Audi A5 Cab

     

     


    Re: McLaren's little secret

    We do mileage leases over here, no residual value leases (which would be pretty dumb).

    Meaning: You agree on monthly payments, an initial payment (or none) and the amount of mileage you are permitted to drive per year, usually 10000 km. After the lease ends, you get the chance to buy the car or you return it, no questions asked and you are done with it. Of course the lease company calculates a residual value for THEM but it doesn't really bother you as a customer if the monthly payments and initial payment suit you. There are no surprises when the lease ends, unless you return the car in a very very bad shape.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: McLaren's little secret

    Isn't 10.000 km too limited? Even if it is a weekend car like a GT3 or a Lamborghini, an average of 200 km per week is too little heart. It means that the km allowance is saved for 3 or 4  long trips trips in the year. It's like having this beautiful woman (or man Smiley)  in your house but you are only allowed to have so few encounters.

     


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: McLaren's little secret

    reginos:

    Isn't 10.000 km too limited? Even if it is a weekend car like a GT3 or a Lamborghini, an average of 200 km per week is too little heart. It means that the km allowance is saved for 3 or 4  long trips trips in the year. It's like having this beautiful woman (or man Smiley)  in your house but you are only allowed to have so few encounters.

     


    --

    "Form follows function"

    For a fun car, 10000 km per year are enough. Actually, I always have 10000 km per year for ALL the cars I lease, this is always perfect. I never do more than 30000 km in three years with a single car, only my wife (she drives around a lot with the kids and because of her patients) manages to put more km on her car (usually 40-50k km in three years).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: McLaren's little secret

    reginos:

    Isn't 10.000 km too limited? Even if it is a weekend car like a GT3 or a Lamborghini, an average of 200 km per week is too little heart. It means that the km allowance is saved for 3 or 4  long trips trips in the year. It's like having this beautiful woman (or man Smiley)  in your house but you are only allowed to have so few encounters.

     

    Of cours yes i would never go under 20000km an year. But i do not lease i prefere payement, expect company car.

    To eatch his own i guess


    Re: McLaren's little secret

    Funny I have four cars and I already have 10K MILES on my turbo in five months! 

    I respectfully disagree that the residual amount does not matter!  It is the amount you agree on to buy the car a the end of the lease (if you want to buy it) - that is how you determine the 'interest' rate or money factor of the lease.  If the residual is high it means less of your monthly lease payment was applied toward the purchase.  If the car is worth more at the end of the lease you buy it, sell it and make a profit.  Why on earth does this amount not matter - even if you are going to return the lease?  If you put high miles on the car you might want to buy it at the resudual price rather than pay mileage penalties.  Help me understand WHY residual price does not matter to you?Smiley

    Lease is a rental with an option to buy.  Not knowing the residual is like not knowing the true price of the car. 


    Re: McLaren's little secret

    I think he just looks at the cash flow side of it. X dollars a month in carrying cost for the use of the car for x number of months. Give it back at the end. Try to make the monthly (and initial) payments as low as possible and always walk (or move to a new car) at the end. 


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: McLaren's little secret

    Mithras:

    I think he just looks at the cash flow side of it. X dollars a month in carrying cost for the use of the car for x number of months. Give it back at the end. Try to make the monthly (and initial) payments as low as possible and always walk (or move to a new car) at the end. 

    Smiley I never buy the car after the lease and if the dealer establishes a high residual value but a low monthly lease rate and a low or no initial payment at all, this isn't my problem. I pay the initial payment (or not), I pay my monthly rates and after 36 months I leave the car at the dealer and walk away. No risk involved, no surprises. I love that.

    10k km are enough for me (we have more cars in the family) but if I drive more, I pay a certain amount per km. Usually, for driving 10k km more (40k km instead of 30k km), I pay around 2500 EUR, which isn't really the "world" on a 200k EUR car.

    Buying the car could be an advantage if I succeed in selling the car at a good price after three to four years but you never know and I really hate the idea of all that money stuck in a car. Instead of driving around 200k EUR, I drive around 70k EUR (initial payment plus monthly rates for 36 months) and with the "saved" 130k EUR, I can invest it on the stock market, making at least 200k out of it in 36 months. Just saying... Smiley

    We had this discussion over and over again and I know that many people prefer to buy their cars but my experience with leases has been very positive (in any possible way), so I stick to them.

    Best example is actually my wife: The M3 Cab she returned to BMW was in a horrible shape (leather with holes, spots, very tough to clean/repair, car had scratches, scratched rims, etc. etc. etc., dealer wondered what happened to the car...apparently he didn't have two wild animals...oops...little kids) and she couldn't care less. Our local BMW dealer closed both eyes since my wife leased a new car with them and she just returned the M3 Cab and was done. Same with my mother's Mini Cooper S, scratched, beaten up, no problem. I leased a Mini Countryman for her and the lease was a thing of the past. No issues, no problems, no hassle, nothing. Lease offers for new cars were always very good (after some negotiating of course...).
    What would be the advantage to buy a car? For me...none.

    I would only buy a car if I plan to keep it and so far, none of my cars is a keeper, not even the upcoming 991 Turbo S. As soon as the facelift arrives...bye bye Turbo S...welcome new Turbo S. Smiley

    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: McLaren's little secret

    I think I have to change my Porsche dealer.

    When I returned my last leased Boxster here in Munich the expertise made by DEKRA was unbelievable.  For instance  they wanted me to pay 100€ for my 18month old break fluid. I think they wanted a new car returned and not a threed year old Boxster with nearly 60.000km. Worst car experience ever. PZM - never ever again


    Re: McLaren's little secret

    reginos:

    The 8th gear might not be a gear as such, but a kind of electronic overdrive in which the control unit adjusts parameters to pre-programmed conditions over the above quoted speed.


    --

    "Form follows function"

    Not possible.  There is a mechanical connection between the crankshaft of the engine and the wheels that includes the gearbox.  The relationship between the revs of the engine and the wheels turning cannot be modified by any electric gizmos - it's a mechanical relationship whose parameters are dictated by the number of teeth on the gears - no electronics are going to affect that.

    If the revs drop lower at the same speed as 7th gear (and it's not coasting in neutral), then it's a real 8th gear (or the addition of a real mechanical overdrive gear, not electronic).

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: McLaren's little secret

    Thank you for your clarification. 


    --

    "Form follows function"


     
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