Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - The mystery of the clear bra. Why? WHYYY? - Page1

Jul 19, 2005 12:08:40 AM

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Denmark; Posts: 5884, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 30, 2004

The mystery of the clear bra. Why? WHYYY?

Just saw (another) pic of a 911 with a tailormade bra.
(See pic)

I simply fail to see the point of a bra, ScotchGuard or whatever it's called.
It seems to be a strictly american thing..cuz I havent seen it anywhere else, but please fill me in.

What's the point? I know you dont get any scratches, but instead you drive around with a butt-ugly cover on the front of your car, and the darn thing probably costs more than a full paintjob on the fender and hood anyways.
The bra also gets scratched...and if you take it off the paint underneath will look perfectly new while the rest of the hood will look worn from sun, weather and chips.

The invisible film I might understand...but still.
What do you do when the film gets dented and scratched?
Replace it? And wont that cost you the same as getting the same chips fixed by paint?
Just wondering...

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Jul 19, 2005 12:25:36 AM

Yellowbox: Newbie; Loc:; Posts: 14, Gallery; Registered on: May 10, 2004; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: The mystery of the clear bra. Why? WHYYY?

for me, pointless. I'd rather use touch-up paints to hide the chips than look bad all the time. People can only see your chips up close (very close), but with bras (even stoneguard), people can see it easily! Unless you know you are driving through a really rocky area, there's no need to put the bra on.

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Jul 19, 2005 1:15:04 AM

AJVIP: Expert; Loc:; Posts: 1862, Gallery; Registered on: May 30, 2005; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: The mystery of the clear bra. Why? WHYYY?

Dr. Phil-

You don't really see the Scotchgard at all if applied correctly - I'm sure Stradale will agree with me - you can't tell it's been applied, but when a scratch does come up, all you have to do is peel off the coating...try searching for a place called Detailing Dynamics on Long Island, NY or my guys AI Design in Westchester...these guy sdo it best - the Detailing Dynamics site has sample pictures of what it would look like...you don't see it at all...Stradale please share your opinion as well :-D

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Jul 19, 2005 1:22:33 AM

syf0n: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 107, Gallery; Registered on: May 13, 2004; Reply to: AJVIP

Re: The mystery of the clear bra. Why? WHYYY?

pihl,

that photo isn't of clearbra, it's a regular bra the same color as the car. the material of a clear bra does not chip or scratch -- it's extremely flexible. the only way to damage it would be to cut it or peel it. any scuffing or anything else you might see on it is very easy to scrape or buff off of the bra without damaging it.

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Jul 19, 2005 1:52:45 AM

JP66: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Seattle , United States; Posts: 2217, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 10, 2003; Reply to: syf0n

Re: The mystery of the clear bra. Why? WHYYY?

The 3M clearguard is fantastic. Difficult to see when done properly. Also the clearguard is put on in many sections, so if one gets scratched or messed up, you only need to replace that piece. Also, a reputable place should give you a waranty. I happened to get a scratch on my fender piece, and it was replaced for free, with my 1yr waranty.
The bra, like on the car above is horrible

But the clearguard, like on mine, is great

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Jul 19, 2005 2:47:33 AM

AJVIP: Expert; Loc:; Posts: 1862, Gallery; Registered on: May 30, 2005; Reply to: JP66

Re: The mystery of the clear bra. Why? WHYYY?

Now that is a job well done :-D

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Jul 19, 2005 7:04:50 AM

Mike S: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Somewhere , Taiwan; Posts: 7720, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: AJVIP

Re: The mystery of the clear bra. Why? WHYYY?

i can't even see it jp

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Jul 19, 2005 8:54:20 AM

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Denmark; Posts: 5884, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 30, 2004; Reply to: Mike S

Re: The mystery of the clear bra. Why? WHYYY?

OK, so you apply the clear bra because it is stronger, more resilient and easier to repair than the paint?
Why not apply the bra to the whole front of the car and not just the nose? That way you wont be able to see the edge of the bra...
?

What does this cost?

Syf0n, I am awayre of the difference between a leather bra and a clear bra, but thanks for your inout

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Jul 19, 2005 8:57:51 AM

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Denmark; Posts: 5884, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 30, 2004; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: The mystery of the clear bra. Why? WHYYY?

Just read this:
http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=120153&an=0&page=0&gonew=1#UNREAD

Someone having problems cleaning the 3M foil.

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Jul 19, 2005 10:32:36 AM

bazza: Expert; Loc: uk,za; Posts: 1393, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 29, 2005; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: The mystery of the clear bra. Why? WHYYY?

is a lady owner , that why need a bra!?

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Jul 19, 2005 2:36:05 PM

AJVIP: Expert; Loc:; Posts: 1862, Gallery; Registered on: May 30, 2005; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: The mystery of the clear bra. Why? WHYYY?

Dr. Phil - give me a personal e-mail address and I will send you the diagram of what parts of the car get the Scotchgard, and which don't with acccmpanying prices in US (the diagram is for a GT3, but the prices are applicable to almost any Porsche)

-AJ

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Jul 19, 2005 6:02:07 PM

STRADALE: Rennteam VIP; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 11075, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 9, 2005; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: The mystery of the clear bra. Why? WHYYY?

I agree with you. That looks bad. But that's not 3M body armour. With a bra like that all the problems of killing your paint exists. Water and dust get underneath and then wind damages the paint.

With the 3M it completely protects the paint. And unless you are looking for it, you won't notice it on a car. The 3M piece that Porsche now puts on every 997 on the rear quarter panel is more obvious because it's edges are exposed. When put on a hood (like I did) you can see the line. But when wrapped around the entire bumper you cannot see it at all.
To me theres nothing worse looking then a chipped up front bumper. (well almost nothing) And with Ferrari's the paint behind the wheels gets sandblasted away after only a few thousand miles. The 3M takes all the abuse. It takes a lot to chip the 3M. If you chipped 3M most likey you would have a major ding and chip without it. It's soft so it absorbs the impacts of pebbles and sand without damage. If it does get trashed you can just have it peeled off and get another piece installed. And if done right it looks like the my pic below not like that goofy old-fashioned vinyl bra.

As to your question "WHY".? In my area I would pratically get a new chip everytime I took my car out without the 3M. CHIPS SUCK ! Within weeks the bumper and hood would look chewed up and crappy. The 3M line on my car is a small price to pay towards keeping the car mint. If you're not in an area that the 3M is popular I'm sure it would seem strange. In my area the 3M clear bra is becoming so popular that a high-end car without it is hit with more depreciation.

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Jul 19, 2005 6:05:40 PM

STRADALE: Rennteam VIP; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 11075, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 9, 2005; Reply to: STRADALE

Re: The mystery of the clear bra. Why? WHYYY?

Here another shot. You can see the line on the front fender from the side marker light to the headlight. There's no way to see the clear bra on the bumper. It's also impossible to see it on the fog and headlights in a picture. In person you cannot see it on the lights, you have to feel the edge with a finger nail.

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Jul 19, 2005 6:07:26 PM

STRADALE: Rennteam VIP; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 11075, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 9, 2005; Reply to: STRADALE

Re: The mystery of the clear bra. Why? WHYYY?

From further back

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Jul 19, 2005 6:12:29 PM

STRADALE: Rennteam VIP; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 11075, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 9, 2005; Reply to: STRADALE

Re: The mystery of the clear bra. Why? WHYYY?

CS with front bumper, hood, rocker panels and along bottom of doors etc. etc. If you're on top of the car you can see the line across the hood. You cannot see the 3M on the rockers, bumper etc. unless you get on your knees and look in the sun from about 6 inches away.

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Jul 19, 2005 6:17:10 PM

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Denmark; Posts: 5884, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 30, 2004; Reply to: STRADALE

Re: The mystery of the clear bra. Why? WHYYY?

Stradale, thanks a bunch for your input

Btw that silver/red crest logo looks awesome on a silver car!

I see the point now...although I would opt for a total treatment of my hood and not just the nose.

Strange that they dont coat the paint from the factory woth something as strong as 3M, but I guess you cant polish the 3M when it gets worn...?

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Jul 19, 2005 6:30:22 PM

Justin: Veteran; Loc: San Diego, CA, USA; Posts: 979, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 12, 2003; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: The mystery of the clear bra. Why? WHYYY?

First of all, I agree that regular bras look horrible. You cannot even leave them on the car for extended periods.

The 3M material is designed to absorb impact, primarily from rocks. You can get it done from companies that will wrap material around the edges of the body work, so it's hard to tell something is on there. But still, if you get a pattern that has the edge that goes across the body work where there is not a seam in the body work, it is very visible up close, even on silver. If though it is clear material, the edges are easy to see up close if not wrapped.

Ended up having to put some on my Elise in front of the rear wheel arches, as rocks thrown up by the front wheels would sandblast the paint in a matter of months otherwise. The entire side sill is covered and you cannot tell other than the orange peel because the edges are wrapped. The nose is another story.

The 3M material has more orange peel than the regular paint. So even if the edges are not visible, you can tell film is on the surface, especially on a darker colored car. Venture film has no orange peel that I could discern. The Venture material is also more flexible, so it can be wrapped around the edges of bodywork to lend to a near invisible look.

The material comes in different thicknesses as well, which effects protection and visibility at the edges. A few areas in front of my rear wheels are already become rough because stones are tearing up the material. Imagine what would happen to my paint.

I'm especially critical of waxing, polishing and paint aesthetics, so these kinds of things bug me more than it would other people. Unfortunately.

- J

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Jul 19, 2005 6:33:17 PM

STRADALE: Rennteam VIP; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 11075, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 9, 2005; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: The mystery of the clear bra. Why? WHYYY?

Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
Stradale, thanks a bunch for your input
Btw that silver/red crest logo looks awesome on a silver car!

I see the point now...although I would opt for a total treatment of my hood and not just the nose.

Strange that they dont coat the paint from the factory woth something as strong as 3M, but I guess you cant polish the 3M when it gets worn...?

Yeah, I love the silver crest. Thanks Doc.

I saw another Stradale and the guy did his entire hood and windshield. It can get costly like that. I think the reasoning is that MOST of the chip damage happens on the front bumper and within the bottom third of the hood so thats where most guys get the 3m installed.

When I had my Turbo done (first install) I called to only get my front bumper covered. When I heard about the small pieces they put on the paint behind the wheels it seemed strange to me. I had a good look and sure enough my paint was pitted there. I'm not positive but I think Porsche is putting a small piece behind the rear wheels now on the 997.

If someone was able to come up with a paint with a coating to prevent dings and chips like the 3M that would be huge imo.

I haven't had 3M get worn out on me yet. The stuff was invented by the military to protect the leading edge of helicopter blades so it's pretty tuff. If you do get a scratch you can use waxes or fine polishes made for paint.

I did have to replace a piece when someone tapped the front of my SUV. The paint underneath was perfect but the 3M got scratched.

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Jul 19, 2005 6:38:05 PM

STRADALE: Rennteam VIP; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 11075, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 9, 2005; Reply to: STRADALE

Re: The mystery of the clear bra. Why? WHYYY?

Here's a cool article on the stuff:
http://www.automotivearticles.com/Clear_Bra_3M.shtml

Some pics being applied:/Click make:
http://www.detailingdynamics.com/film.html

Pics of my CS install:
http://www.detailingdynamics.com/filmferrari.html

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Jul 19, 2005 6:51:15 PM

STRADALE: Rennteam VIP; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 11075, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 9, 2005; Reply to: STRADALE

Re: The mystery of the clear bra. Why? WHYYY?

One thing.
Many places use KITS. Pre-fabricated pieces. There's nothing wrong with this, I've seen kits look great on cars, but sometimes with some of the kits the pieces are not cut so that they may be tucked into and behind body panels. (The pieces lay on-top of the panels with like a 1/8 of an inch of paint exposed instead of getting folded into the body panel opening)
Detailing Dynamics is the only place that I know of that will actually cut each piece individually at their shop so edges get tucked in. I'm sure there are other shops out there that also do this. This imo is the way to go.

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Jul 19, 2005 6:58:46 PM

STRADALE: Rennteam VIP; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 11075, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 9, 2005; Reply to: Justin

Re: The mystery of the clear bra. Why? WHYYY?

Justin,

Agreed 100%.
Silvers and Red from my experience show the least.
Black (I just had my moms CLK500 done) shows the most.

With a silver or red car the paint really doesn't look that different under the 3M. On black the parts covered with 3M look shinier.

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Jul 19, 2005 7:22:17 PM

AJVIP: Expert; Loc:; Posts: 1862, Gallery; Registered on: May 30, 2005; Reply to: STRADALE

Re: The mystery of the clear bra. Why? WHYYY?

Hey Dr. Phil, check your e-mail will ya, I sent you diagrams from Detailing Dynamics on the prices and application of the Scotchgard...sorry to have to e-mail you from work!

-AJ

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Jul 19, 2005 9:01:00 PM

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Denmark; Posts: 5884, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 30, 2004; Reply to: AJVIP

Re: The mystery of the clear bra. Why? WHYYY?

Quote:
ajcastaneda said:
Hey Dr. Phil, check your e-mail will ya, I sent you diagrams from Detailing Dynamics on the prices and application of the Scotchgard...sorry to have to e-mail you from work!

-AJ

Thanks AJ, I got it!

I'll check it out.

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Jul 20, 2005 5:15:46 AM

Yellowbox: Newbie; Loc:; Posts: 14, Gallery; Registered on: May 10, 2004; Reply to: STRADALE

Re: The mystery of the clear bra. Why? WHYYY?

Quote:
STRADALE said:
From further back

but the line on the hood is quite obvious (kudos to your digital camera!)... maybe covering the bumpers and area behind the wheels are great, but on the hood is too obvious.

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Jul 20, 2005 4:50:41 PM

Ente: Senior; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 781, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 24, 2005; Reply to: Yellowbox

Re: The mystery of the clear bra. Why? WHYYY?

I recently walked around on a HR Owen sports car lot here in London in search of clear bra samples, and I passed right by the orange Lamborghini with the film. It is really near invisible. I still decided against it for my own 987 when I detected that I already had a couple of small chips and touch up worked fine for those. The film is also not inexpensive in the UK - 500 GBP. Plus, in my case the biggest threat comes from my colleagues stupidly dragging their laptop alongside my car when they're threading their way through the car park. Clear bra won't help that, only better positioning and a shot gun.

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Jul 20, 2005 9:35:36 PM

throt: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 6075, Gallery; Registered on: May 9, 2005; Reply to: Ente

Re: The mystery of the clear bra. Why? WHYYY?

Guys what about polish/wax residue build up a long the lines..

throt..

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Jul 21, 2005 3:07:40 PM

STRADALE: Rennteam VIP; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 11075, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 9, 2005; Reply to: Yellowbox

Re: The mystery of the clear bra. Why? WHYYY?

Quote:
dy986 said:
Quote:
STRADALE said:
From further back

but the line on the hood is quite obvious (kudos to your digital camera!)... maybe covering the bumpers and area behind the wheels are great, but on the hood is too obvious.

The line across the hood doesn't bother me at all. There's more lines visible with the 3M that Porsche puts on at the factory on the rear panel. The reason why it doesn't bother me is because it's not damage. At any time I could have the 3M taken off with perfect factory paint underneath. Where as stone chips and dings ARE damage. To me that is bothersome.

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Jul 21, 2005 3:12:10 PM

STRADALE: Rennteam VIP; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 11075, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 9, 2005; Reply to: throt

Re: The mystery of the clear bra. Why? WHYYY?

Quote:
throt said:
Guys what about polish/wax residue build up a long the lines..

throt..

For the front bumper you don't have to worry about waxing it because there's no paint to wax. For the hood it's pretty easy to keep the wax pad about an 1/8 of an inch from the line. Or you can use painters tape and put a strip just covering the edge. I haven't had any problems with wax residue.

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Jul 21, 2005 3:22:12 PM

STRADALE: Rennteam VIP; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 11075, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 9, 2005; Reply to: Yellowbox

Re: The mystery of the clear bra. Why? WHYYY?

Quote:
dy986 said:
Quote:
STRADALE said:
From further back

but the line on the hood is quite obvious (kudos to your digital camera!)... maybe covering the bumpers and area behind the wheels are great, but on the hood is too obvious.

btw: This is another way to go if the line on the hood is too bothersome to you. When I did my 996 Turbo I felt the same way and only did the front bumper and behind the wheels. Sure enough I recieved a large chip, minor dent on my hood right next to the Porsche crest about a week later.

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Jul 21, 2005 3:34:51 PM

STRADALE: Rennteam VIP; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 11075, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 9, 2005; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: The mystery of the clear bra. Why? WHYYY?

Doc,
I found a better pic of the Silver crest:
http://www.rennteam.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=1120&sort=1&cat=500&page=1

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