Crown

Interesting that Ruf has already had enough experience w/ the 9A1 to determine it doesn't have the strength of the GT1 block. If the 9A1 block is the future of Porsche it portends tough times for the tuners if all their mods blow up the engine.

Thanks Eunice and others for responding to my question on the paddle position.  I now understand better the reasoning behind the paddles being on the column, and will just have to test out the the new system myself to compare. I have driven the Ferrari style on many occasions, and I am not sure that system is particularly driver friendly.  When  I turned the wheel, I always had a nagging sense of knowing that the paddles were not moving, and on some occasions I caught my fingers between the paddles and the wheel.  In any event, I am not sure either way is the best of all worlds.  

Whoopsy:

How Porsche do it may differs than others but the end result is the same, it makes a car corner faster, closer to the physical limit than normal.

It does make a difference! First of all Porsche´s system is much cheaper since the LSD is included in the extra charge so the upcharge is dispensable.. So far, it looks more or less like an add-on (admittedly still demanding to be calibrated correctly) to the already existing ESP (PSM) in conjunction with the proven mechanical differential. For most users this system will be quite sufficient, as the EBDs on common SUVs are sufficient for most users in comparison to the mechanical LSDs of genuine off-roaders.

However, it remains interesting to see if Porsche´s system by decelerating the inner wheel is as efficient as the torque-vectoring concept from ZF. As the 997.1 Turbo with ESP engaged has shown some brake wear on the track already, one can be suspicious how this new system contributes to that...

easy_rider911:

The new PDK steering wheel with paddles is IMO what PAG should have designed right from the start. I'm glad they listened to all the feedback. It also looks much more beautiful to me than the other one with rocker switches.

I wonder if anyone will choose the rocker switch steering wheel over the paddle steering? I imagine v v few. But PAG wouldn't want to be seen accepting that it was a mistake - and dropping the rocker switch steering wheel entirely would be an admission of this. But I imagine they will quietly drop it in the next model year arguing both choices were initially offered to help 'transition' those who liked Tiptronic S on the 997.1 TT.

Nice choice of rims. One of them is very similar to the HRE P40. I never liked the 997.1 TT rims.

PTV seems to be a good new technological advance.

I wonder if they improved the exhaust sound?

Rear LEDs are nice.

The performance improvement is really underwhelming. 20HP more is really miserly. The main improvements are in fuel consumption and emissions. It seems like PAG has just given up trying to match the LP560-4, the F430 and the new 458 Italia for performance and power.

Dropping the GT1 derived engine for a 3.8L DFI engine will upset those who want something tried and tested. However, Reginos is right IMO. PAG should not stay chained to its past glories. Simply hanging onto the GT1 engine implies a mindset that the 'golden age' is in the past and that the future is just all downhill. PAG needs to innovate and come up with something new, something better. These small incremental increases are leaving Porsche behind.

I find the whole debate about GT1 engines in the TT to be disconnected from the market realities. PAG could not continue to use Tiptronic S. That technology is totally ancient. PAG couldn't marry PDK with a GT1 engine. Since they had to drop Tiptronic S and implement PDK, they had to drop the GT1 engine.

Also, the GT1 engine was just too expensive and in today's financial climate, that matters. I think the major achievement has been to get the PDK system to handle the 997.2 TT's greater torque. But I guess the investment to make that happen was shared with getting that right for the Panamera TT.

I would expect this is also a tacit admission that the TT will continue on the path towards being an ever more user-friendly, ever softer car while the more track oriented buyers will be ever more catered for using the GT3, GT3 RS and GT2 models. The GT1 engine may continue with another iteration of the GT3 using a manual transmission. This 997.2 TT confirmed to me (at least) that the most rewarding 911 driving experience is available in the GT3.

If I were an existing 997.1 TT owner, I wouldn't be able to justify the depreciation hit in upgrading to a 997.2 TT. For non-Porsche owners or owners with a Boxster/Cayman, Carrera/Targa etc, IMO moving up to a 997.2 TT would be a great upgrade.

I plan to hang onto my 997.1 C2S and to increase my own driver potential by attending driving courses. I may feel tempted to get a 991 TT but I would be looking for enough change of appearance from the 997 if I upgrade. Let's see...

 

Well said.

I'm really glad I didn't wait. I remember talking with a friend back in Feb 2008 when I took delivery about getting my Turbo Cab then vs waiting for the .2, he decided to wait.  You couldn't pay me enough to trade in all the fun times I've had since then for these very slight changes (some just for the sake of change/exhaust tips). After-market Champion's or HRE P40's look way better w/ reduced un-sprung weight than that new flat shaped P40 look alike OEM wheel... But do like the new wheel option better than the original OEM's.... Heck w/ an after-market exhaust you're almost /at par power wise & with the better GT1 block to boot... I'd sooner do the ECU to be above power wise then get a .2...... imho the smarter move has been to get into the earlier cars, whether it be the C2's or the Turbo's then to wait for the 2nd generation/s. Waiting for the 998 Turbo also makes more sense too imo than this car & much more sense then a Turbo S .  But who knows the 997.1 Turbo/GT1 w/ ECU, etc may be the car worth keeping long term,,,,dont know yet..

Yep,  Porsche seems content to be left behind in comparative to Lambo/ Ferrari. It looked that way w/ the 997, it's looking like confirmation with subsequent generations.    

ps: Wasn't a huge fan of the original exhaust tips but these changes/enhancements, making them even larger, huge actually and more awkward makes the original design look much more cohesive.  The shrek mirrors don't help either. Even the shape of the original tail lights look so much better than the added tail light lines now on the rear for the sake of change.
--

08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet, 06 Ferrari F430,  04 Durango HEMI,  04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle,  93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia

STRADALE:

easy_rider911:

The new PDK steering wheel with paddles is IMO what PAG should have designed right from the start. I'm glad they listened to all the feedback. It also looks much more beautiful to me than the other one with rocker switches.

I wonder if anyone will choose the rocker switch steering wheel over the paddle steering? I imagine v v few. But PAG wouldn't want to be seen accepting that it was a mistake - and dropping the rocker switch steering wheel entirely would be an admission of this. But I imagine they will quietly drop it in the next model year arguing both choices were initially offered to help 'transition' those who liked Tiptronic S on the 997.1 TT.

You must have noticed that the multi-function steering wheel only comes with the buttons. So Porsche appear to be differentiating between daily users/comfort oriented buyers (buttons + MF) and sports/track enthusiasts (paddles).

temm:

JakeGt2:

www.teamspeed.com/forums/997-996-turbo/27235-porsche-releases-997-turbo-mkii-vids.html

Four PR vids as well

 

Thanks, these videos were shot in Norway, on the Atlantic Coast Road

 

08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet, 06 Ferrari F430,  04 Durango HEMI,  04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle,  93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia

Unfortunately, the huge new mirrors are the result of EU legislation and other cars are similarly affected.

As for Ferrari, there's that old adage that the two best days in a Ferrari owner's life are the day he buys and the day he sells. I have an ageing F355 and love it to bits, but it's an ownership hassle. Porsche 911s are a much better everyday driving proposition and that's before you get to the price of the cars...

Alex_997TT:
Mod'ing a facelift Turbo especially with PDK is going to be a very high risk and expensive venture. I saw on another forum that someone had spoken to Ruf about the new engine and was told it was nowhere near as strong as the (now classic) GT1 engine was. Also, as far as I am aware the PDK variant in the new Turbo has a max torque capacity of 700Nm and this is already hit with stock overboost! So even an aftermarket exhaust addition on it's own willl probably over exert your PDK box. I personally think the new Turbo is a good thing for people who leave their cars stock, but if you want a better sounding exhaust and more than 500bhp then you need a 997.1 Turbo as a base to do this with.

With all due respect, if I say that i read on another forum that a friend of a friend, saw in another forum, that a friend of friend spoke to a Porsche engeenear, and was told the DFI engine is WAY more reliable that the GT1, would you believe it???? For God sake, try to have some good sence here. You have a wonderful car, very well tuned and fast as hell, but on your posts, you seem to be always trying to justify your option by putting down Porsche option to drop the PDK+DFI Turbo engine. It´s your option and very good one let me say, but you don´t know nothing about DFI reliability, nothing about PDK torque limits, so try to speak about things you know, and not from something you read on a forum which was said to friend of guy, that was friend of another guy, who spoke with Ruf.

When the 997TT was released, most of the 996TT owners were saying the same thing you´re saying about the 997.2  TT, no good for tuning, Turbos wouldn´t stand much power and so on, Now we have some serious fast 997TT on the road with reliability levels that leave their minds in peace, being you one of them.

Let´s waite and see, maybe you´ll be one of first to have the fastest 997.2TT here with +700hp and 2,9 sec 0-100Kph  

DaveC:

Interesting that Ruf has already had enough experience w/ the 9A1 to determine it doesn't have the strength of the GT1 block. If the 9A1 block is the future of Porsche it portends tough times for the tuners if all their mods blow up the engine.

Let me guess, you read this info in a forum, which a friend of friend of another guy, spoke to Mr Ruf and he told him the DFI Turbo engines were a timebomb ready to explode with a simple change of sport exhaust   

This is plausible because a friend of a friend, read in another forum, that Porsche has sent a year ago, the DFI Turbo engine to Ruf, so that he could test it to death   

J.Seven

fritz:

easy_rider911:

I've just spent a very interesting evening configuring a fully loaded 997.2 TT on the German Porsche website. It's easy to spend 190 thousand Euros 
 

 

Spending money was always easy  -  earning it takes a little more effort. 

J.Seven:

Alex_997TT:
Mod'ing a facelift Turbo especially with PDK is going to be a very high risk and expensive venture. I saw on another forum that someone had spoken to Ruf about the new engine and was told it was nowhere near as strong as the (now classic) GT1 engine was. Also, as far as I am aware the PDK variant in the new Turbo has a max torque capacity of 700Nm and this is already hit with stock overboost! So even an aftermarket exhaust addition on it's own willl probably over exert your PDK box. I personally think the new Turbo is a good thing for people who leave their cars stock, but if you want a better sounding exhaust and more than 500bhp then you need a 997.1 Turbo as a base to do this with.

With all due respect, if I say that i read on another forum that a friend of a friend, saw in another forum, that a friend of friend spoke to a Porsche engeenear, and was told the DFI engine is WAY more reliable that the GT1, would you believe it???? For God sake, try to have some good sence here. You have a wonderful car, very well tuned and fast as hell, but on your posts, you seem to be always trying to justify your option by putting down Porsche option to drop the PDK+DFI Turbo engine. It´s your option and very good one let me say, but you don´t know nothing about DFI reliability, nothing about PDK torque limits, so try to speak about things you know, and not from something you read on a forum which was said to friend of guy, that was friend of another guy, who spoke with Ruf.

 

When the 997TT was released, most of the 996TT owners were saying the same thing you´re saying about the 997.2  TT, no good for tuning, Turbos wouldn´t stand much power and so on, Now we have some serious fast 997TT on the road with reliability levels that leave their minds in peace, being you one of them.

Let´s waite and see, maybe you´ll be one of first to have the fastest 997.2TT here with +700hp and 2,9 sec 0-100Kph  

I clearly remember when many were saying that the 997TT w/VTG turbos could not be reliably tuned anywhere near the levels of the 996TT. Boy were they wrong. Time to move forward. I believe that the new engine will be a beast. And, the whole package more so.

2010 Porsche 911 Turbo: "History"

2010 Porsche 911 Turbo: "Personality"

2010 Porsche 911 Turbo: "Responsibility"

2010 Porsche 911 Turbo: "Athleticism"

J.Seven:

With all due respect, if I say that i read on another forum that a friend of a friend, saw in another forum, that a friend of friend spoke to a Porsche engeenear, and was told the DFI engine is WAY more reliable that the GT1, would you believe it???? For God sake, try to have some good sence here. You have a wonderful car, very well tuned and fast as hell, but on your posts, you seem to be always trying to justify your option by putting down Porsche option to drop the PDK+DFI Turbo engine. It´s your option and very good one let me say, but you don´t know nothing about DFI reliability, nothing about PDK torque limits, so try to speak about things you know, and not from something you read on a forum which was said to friend of guy, that was friend of another guy, who spoke with Ruf.

 When the 997TT was released, most of the 996TT owners were saying the same thing you´re saying about the 997.2  TT, no good for tuning, Turbos wouldn´t stand much power and so on, Now we have some serious fast 997TT on the road with reliability levels that leave their minds in peace, being you one of them.

Let´s waite and see, maybe you´ll be one of first to have the fastest 997.2TT here with +700hp and 2,9 sec 0-100Kph   

With equal respect, I am not trying to justify anything here.  I couldn't give a rats-ar$e if people want to buy a new 997.2 Turbo and take it straight down to their local tuner for ECU upgrades, and it works out well or not.  I am simply repeating things I have heard (which I agree may or may not be true) and then let people decide if they want to risk their own money down the tuning route.  There is no way I would have ever tuned my car if there were any unanswered questions over whether I would be seriously shortening the life of my engine.  I threw my warranty out the window as soon as I tuned my ECU so I had to be pretty damn sure.

The new engine may turn out to be the wayyy stronger than the old GT1 based Metzger engine, the point is we don't yet know.  All we do know is that the old engine is good for pretty much any power upgrades (within reason) that anyone would ever want for.  It will certainly take a few years before this is established with the new engine.  If there are even rumours that tuners have already studied the new engine (eg. from a Carrera) and they are concerned over it's strength then that would be enough for me to not tune until at least 2 years after tuners release the first powerkits.  I remember RC suggesting something similar to everyone here after the 997 Turbo first came out.

I also mentioned PDK torque limits to consider.  You are correct that I don't know what box is in the new Turbo and it's upper limits, but I do know that last year ZF Press announcement posted here on Rennteam stipulated that 2 boxes were being presented to Porsche, the stronger of the two having a limit of 700Nm.  If ZF have since brought out a new stronger box then I for one would be very interested to hear about it.  If not then I stand by my observation to watch out even adding an after-market exhaust as you are already at the PDK's limit.  My Cargraphic exhaust mod on it's own is worth 30Nm of extra torque!

All I am trying to say is be careful here and don't get caught up in the ever glamorous Porsche marketing hype.  The 997.1 Turbo was labelled a 'masterpiece' on release, and we all know how that panned out.

--

MarkN:

Unfortunately, the huge new mirrors are the result of EU legislation and other cars are similarly affected.

As for Ferrari, there's that old adage that the two best days in a Ferrari owner's life are the day he buys and the day he sells. I have an ageing F355 and love it to bits, but it's an ownership hassle. Porsche 911s are a much better everyday driving proposition and that's before you get to the price of the cars...

That old adage sounds like a statement from some jealous wanker or from someone who's never owned a modern Ferrari.  The best days are by far WHEN YOU'RE OUT DRIVING!   And compared MODERN Ferrari's (CS, Scud, 430) are in another league compared to the Turbo in terms of driving experience.

Aging Ferrari's or aging Porsche's can both be a hassle. Price you pay for high performance in an old car..   So far the only issue I've had w/ my CS/ F430 is routine campaign's, have had them w/ my Porsche's too. ......  "ownership hassle" difference between my last 3 Porsche's & last 2 Ferraris?? None really. If anything service is much more accommodating at Ferrari.  

BTW:  It actually started here 20 + yrs ago w/ boats :  "That is until you hear the adage that the two best days in a boat owner's life are the day he buys the boat, and the day he sells it."  Now someone is using that for Ferrari?? .. Makes it easier for the person's psyche that wants what they cant have.

PS: Welcome to the forum  

-

08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet, 06 Ferrari F430,  04 Durango HEMI,  04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle,  93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia

MarkN:

Unfortunately, the huge new mirrors are the result of EU legislation and other cars are similarly affected.

As for Ferrari, there's that old adage that the two best days in a Ferrari owner's life are the day he buys and the day he sells. I have an ageing F355 and love it to bits, but it's an ownership hassle. Porsche 911s are a much better everyday driving proposition and that's before you get to the price of the cars...

You must not be serious. Ferraris and Lambos are in a different league all together.  Of course Porsche is a better everyday driving car becuase they're pretty much in the same league as the BMW, Mercs and Audis with a little touch of better performance.

You drive your Ferrari for those beautiful weekends that is nice out side .

Alex_997TT:

J.Seven:

With all due respect, if I say that i read on another forum that a friend of a friend, saw in another forum, that a friend of friend spoke to a Porsche engeenear, and was told the DFI engine is WAY more reliable that the GT1, would you believe it???? For God sake, try to have some good sence here. You have a wonderful car, very well tuned and fast as hell, but on your posts, you seem to be always trying to justify your option by putting down Porsche option to drop the PDK+DFI Turbo engine. It´s your option and very good one let me say, but you don´t know nothing about DFI reliability, nothing about PDK torque limits, so try to speak about things you know, and not from something you read on a forum which was said to friend of guy, that was friend of another guy, who spoke with Ruf.

 When the 997TT was released, most of the 996TT owners were saying the same thing you´re saying about the 997.2  TT, no good for tuning, Turbos wouldn´t stand much power and so on, Now we have some serious fast 997TT on the road with reliability levels that leave their minds in peace, being you one of them.

Let´s waite and see, maybe you´ll be one of first to have the fastest 997.2TT here with +700hp and 2,9 sec 0-100Kph   

With equal respect, I am not trying to justify anything here.  I couldn't give a rats-ar$e if people want to buy a new 997.2 Turbo and take it straight down to their local tuner for ECU upgrades, and it works out well or not.  I am simply repeating things I have heard (which I agree may or may not be true) and then let people decide if they want to risk their own money down the tuning route.  There is no way I would have ever tuned my car if there were any unanswered questions over whether I would be seriously shortening the life of my engine.  I threw my warranty out the window as soon as I tuned my ECU so I had to be pretty damn sure.

The new engine may turn out to be the wayyy stronger than the old GT1 based Metzger engine, the point is we don't yet know.  All we do know is that the old engine is good for pretty much any power upgrades (within reason) that anyone would ever want for.  It will certainly take a few years before this is established with the new engine.  If there are even rumours that tuners have already studied the new engine (eg. from a Carrera) and they are concerned over it's strength then that would be enough for me to not tune until at least 2 years after tuners release the first powerkits.  I remember RC suggesting something similar to everyone here after the 997 Turbo first came out.

I also mentioned PDK torque limits to consider.  You are correct that I don't know what box is in the new Turbo and it's upper limits, but I do know that last year ZF Press announcement posted here on Rennteam stipulated that 2 boxes were being presented to Porsche, the stronger of the two having a limit of 700Nm.  If ZF have since brought out a new stronger box then I for one would be very interested to hear about it.  If not then I stand by my observation to watch out even adding an after-market exhaust as you are already at the PDK's limit.  My Cargraphic exhaust mod on it's own is worth 30Nm of extra torque!

All I am trying to say is be careful here and don't get caught up in the ever glamorous Porsche marketing hype.  The 997.1 Turbo was labelled a 'masterpiece' on release, and we all know how that panned out.

--

Well said.

Also, I could be wrong on this but wasnt the reason they hadnt already released PDK is because they were having reliability issues w/ the STOCK HP? I'd doubt very much they would delay PDK's release so far ahead just to make sure it was reliable with after-market performance mods.  Porsche is all about Profit. 

Anytime a co, especially Porsche is making much more money supplying something to me like an engine, especially when the previous design was so tested,  I am skeptical.  Guess we'll see what happens but i agree, I definitely wouldn't want to be anywhere near the front to try performance mods on a .2 especially w/ PDK. Be happy to hear all about it from the people who go first though. 

BTW: Look at all the issues tuners had w/ 997 Turbo's/ performance ECU's & Tip's. PDK is an un-known entity on the Turbo.
--

08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet, 06 Ferrari F430,  04 Durango HEMI,  04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle,  93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia

Yes, They had a problem sticking it with Gt1 that produce 480hp and 456 ft-lb, but not with the new engine which produce 20 more hp and 24 (ft-lb)more torque

I don't know what to tell,but Gt1 block or not,if the around 60.000 euros i must put with my car to take the new one, aren't a "problem",well...i will change it.

Sure when i turn "on" my mind,i realise that take a car of the same colour of mine inside and outside,and of the same shape,with an exhaust not louder than mine,and only with 20.000kms less ...well..is not the right thing for my pocket now,and i prefer to save money for the all new Turbo that will come.

Sure the thing don't stop me is the engine,i don't think they are not able to make an engine good to be tuned,or bulletproof!

This engine is the BASE for the next at least 10 years models...

activa:

fritz:

easy_rider911:

I assume it is because: (1) the paddles would always be in the same place (2) it's what people are used to on other cars (3) it wouldn't involve 'searching' for the paddles if one is in mid-turn but where one's hands are no longer in the '10 to 2' position.

All true.
You could also have added   "....... but you shouldn't be changing gears in mid-turn anyway".

I suppose people saying you shouldn't change gears mid-corner are the same people who are saying you should always brake in a straight line.

I suppose, too. Very good point

ONUR

09 Audi TTS Ibis

07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

Wonderbar:

Would someone explain why paddles should be on the column, not the wheel? Seems like you want them on the wheel so you can shift as you turn if necessary.  What am I missing here?  Thanks in advance.

I had owned 2 E46 M3s with SMGII gearbox and now an Audi TTS with DSG box.

They all have the paddles on the steering wheel. I find it easier to use when the paddles are on the steering wheel. they are closer to you and if you hold the steerin wheel on the right position, they are always there.

And if you exit a slow corner or make a U turn, you can always use the gear stick to upsift or down.

On the other hand, I drove a F430 with F1 tranny on a race circuit, and find it little hard to down shift before a corner on agressive braking, because the paddles are further away from your fingers. Therefore I had to relocate the downshift paddle before the corner. It is all getting used to and as long as there are paddles instead of puddles, there is no problem where they are because you get used to both.

However, having paddles on the steering wheel and gear level give you more oppurtunaty for different occasions. 

--
 

ONUR

09 Audi TTS Ibis

07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

orsi2003:

Yes, They had a problem sticking it with Gt1 that produce 480hp and 456 ft-lb, but not with the new engine which produce 20 more hp and 24 (ft-lb)more torque

If I remember correctly it wasnt just about "sticking it" to the GT1 it was also about reliability problems of the PDK handling the power. That's what I read anyway, think it was in Excellence but not sure.

--

08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet, 06 Ferrari F430,  04 Durango HEMI,  04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle,  93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia

STRADALE:

orsi2003:

Yes, They had a problem sticking it with Gt1 that produce 480hp and 456 ft-lb, but not with the new engine which produce 20 more hp and 24 (ft-lb)more torque

 

If I remember correctly it wasnt just about "sticking it" to the GT1 it was also about reliability problems of the PDK handling the power. That's what I read anyway, think it was in Excellence but not sure.

The problem was mating the PDK to the old GT1 engine. Nothing to do with reliability or handling the torque.

reginos:

STRADALE:

orsi2003:

Yes, They had a problem sticking it with Gt1 that produce 480hp and 456 ft-lb, but not with the new engine which produce 20 more hp and 24 (ft-lb)more torque

 

If I remember correctly it wasnt just about "sticking it" to the GT1 it was also about reliability problems of the PDK handling the power. That's what I read anyway, think it was in Excellence but not sure.

The problem was mating the PDK to the old GT1 engine. Nothing to do with reliability or handling the torque.

"Currently, only the coupe and cabrio versions of the two-wheel drive Carrera can have the £2338 PDK option, but it will be fitted to the Carrera 4 when that is launched later in 2008 and the facelifted Boxster in 2009. But a 325lb ft limit in its current state rules it out from duty in the Turbo, GT3 and GT3. They’ll get PDK eventually, but it needs to be beefed up first."

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/Search-Results/First-drives/Porsche-911-Carrera-PDK-2008-CAR-review/?content-block=2

------------------------------------

"Porsche was actually one of the first companies to develop dual-clutch technology, having introduced it in its race cars more than 25 years, but has taken longer than some rivals to bring it to market. Initial dual-clutch gearboxes had problems handling large amounts of torque."

http://www.carcentral.com.au/200806061006/coupes/2009-porsche-911-updated-with-direct-injection-and-dual-clutch-technology.html

 
--

08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet, 06 Ferrari F430,  04 Durango HEMI,  04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle,  93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia

STRADALE:

reginos:

STRADALE:

orsi2003:

Yes, They had a problem sticking it with Gt1 that produce 480hp and 456 ft-lb, but not with the new engine which produce 20 more hp and 24 (ft-lb)more torque

 

If I remember correctly it wasnt just about "sticking it" to the GT1 it was also about reliability problems of the PDK handling the power. That's what I read anyway, think it was in Excellence but not sure.

The problem was mating the PDK to the old GT1 engine. Nothing to do with reliability or handling the torque.

 

I could probably find the excellence issue as it pertains to the Turbo but for the time being:

"Currently, only the coupe and cabrio versions of the two-wheel drive Carrera can have the £2338 PDK option, but it will be fitted to the Carrera 4 when that is launched later in 2008 and the facelifted Boxster in 2009. But a 325lb ft limit in its current state rules it out from duty in the Turbo, GT3 and GT3. They’ll get PDK eventually, but it needs to be beefed up first."

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/Search-Results/First-drives/Porsche-911-Carrera-PDK-2008-CAR-review/?content-block=2

------------------------------------

"Porsche was actually one of the first companies to develop dual-clutch technology, having introduced it in its race cars more than 25 years, but has taken longer than some rivals to bring it to market. Initial dual-clutch gearboxes had problems handling large amounts of torque."

http://www.carcentral.com.au/200806061006/coupes/2009-porsche-911-updated-with-direct-injection-and-dual-clutch-technology.html

 

The new Turbo engine develops at 500HP and 700Nm with overboost, more power and more torque than the outgoing GT1 turbo engine and the current GT3 engine. Obviously, the new Turbo PDK can handle that. Therefore it's not a problem of the PDK not being suitable for the power of the older engine or that of the GT3.

Note that as the article points out the PDK as in the new Turbo has already been beefed up compared to the Carrera/Boxster/Cayman PDK with among other things stronger clutches.

The problem is the matching of GT1 engine to the PDK gearbox which required extensive modifications.

reginos:

STRADALE:

reginos:

STRADALE:

orsi2003:

Yes, They had a problem sticking it with Gt1 that produce 480hp and 456 ft-lb, but not with the new engine which produce 20 more hp and 24 (ft-lb)more torque

 

If I remember correctly it wasnt just about "sticking it" to the GT1 it was also about reliability problems of the PDK handling the power. That's what I read anyway, think it was in Excellence but not sure.

The problem was mating the PDK to the old GT1 engine. Nothing to do with reliability or handling the torque.

 

I could probably find the excellence issue as it pertains to the Turbo but for the time being:

"Currently, only the coupe and cabrio versions of the two-wheel drive Carrera can have the £2338 PDK option, but it will be fitted to the Carrera 4 when that is launched later in 2008 and the facelifted Boxster in 2009. But a 325lb ft limit in its current state rules it out from duty in the Turbo, GT3 and GT3. They’ll get PDK eventually, but it needs to be beefed up first."

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/Search-Results/First-drives/Porsche-911-Carrera-PDK-2008-CAR-review/?content-block=2

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"Porsche was actually one of the first companies to develop dual-clutch technology, having introduced it in its race cars more than 25 years, but has taken longer than some rivals to bring it to market. Initial dual-clutch gearboxes had problems handling large amounts of torque."

http://www.carcentral.com.au/200806061006/coupes/2009-porsche-911-updated-with-direct-injection-and-dual-clutch-technology.html

 

The new Turbo engine develops at 500HP and 700Nm with overboost, more power and more torque than the outgoing GT1 turbo engine and the current GT3 engine. Obviously, the new Turbo PDK can handle that. Therefore it's not a problem of the PDK not being suitable for the power of the older engine or that of the GT3.

Note that as the article points out the PDK as in the new Turbo has already been beefed up compared to the Carrera/Boxster/Cayman PDK with among other things stronger clutches.

The problem is the matching of GT1 engine to the PDK gearbox which required extensive modifications.

Orrrrrrrrrrr,,,,,,,, you could have just admitted you were wrong for the 1st time ever, but whatever.

"The seven-speed PDK differs from those used by VW-Audi and Ford, in that it features a wet clutch system to cope with the torque created by Porsche's engines. A big challenge for Porsche and its technology partner, ZF, was developing an effective seal between the gears and clutches to prevent contamination and the two different lubricants mixing.

Speaking to just-auto, Porsche director responsible for engineering, Wolfgang Dürheimer said the PDK could cope with all future torque demands including the hybrid Cayenne and Panamera."

http://www.just-auto.com/article.aspx?id=95255&lk=s

But according to you it had "Nothing to do with reliability or handling the torque.". Maybe you should argue with Wolfgang Durheimer, it's a waste of my time.

--

08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet, 06 Ferrari F430,  04 Durango HEMI,  04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle,  93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia

STRADALE:

"The seven-speed PDK differs from those used by VW-Audi and Ford, in that it features a wet clutch system to cope with the torque created by Porsche's engines. A big challenge for Porsche and its technology partner, ZF, was developing an effective seal between the gears and clutches to prevent contamination and the two different lubricants mixing.

Speaking to just-auto, Porsche director responsible for engineering, Wolfgang Dürheimer said the PDK could cope with all future torque demands including the hybrid Cayenne and Panamera."

http://www.just-auto.com/article.aspx?id=95255&lk=s

But according to you it had "Nothing to do with reliability or handling the torque.". Maybe you should argue with Wolfgang Durheimer, it's a waste of my time.

--

Stradale, perhaps some of the things you are referring to here were applicable at the time they were quoted.

Fact is that now the new beefed up PDK has already found application in Porsche's second most powerful engine, the 997.2 Turbo engine (500PS, 700Nm)and so I presume Porsche engineers are not foreseeing any reliability issues. GT1 developed less than the new engine, 480PS and 620Nm if I remember well.

The reason they use the GT1 engine for the GT3 and the forthcoming GT3 RS is that this engine is more suitable for racing and as you know the RS is a homologation special.

They could not fit the PDK to that engine (although I don't think they would anyway) not for reasons of power and torque (because in the Turbo application the PDK handles more HP and Nm) but for reasons of matching PDK to GT1 engine.

Sorry I cannot put things any clearer.

--
It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

reginos:

STRADALE:

"The seven-speed PDK differs from those used by VW-Audi and Ford, in that it features a wet clutch system to cope with the torque created by Porsche's engines. A big challenge for Porsche and its technology partner, ZF, was developing an effective seal between the gears and clutches to prevent contamination and the two different lubricants mixing.

Speaking to just-auto, Porsche director responsible for engineering, Wolfgang Dürheimer said the PDK could cope with all future torque demands including the hybrid Cayenne and Panamera."

http://www.just-auto.com/article.aspx?id=95255&lk=s

But according to you it had "Nothing to do with reliability or handling the torque.". Maybe you should argue with Wolfgang Durheimer, it's a waste of my time.

--

Stradale, perhaps some of the things you are referring to here were applicable at the time they were quoted.

Fact is that now the new beefed up PDK has already found application in Porsche's second most powerful engine, the 997.2 Turbo engine (500PS, 700Nm)and so I presume Porsche engineers are not foreseeing any reliability issues. GT1 developed less than the new engine, 480PS and 620Nm if I remember well.

The reason they use the GT1 engine for the GT3 and the forthcoming GT3 RS is that this engine is more suitable for racing and as you know the RS is a homologation special.

They could not fit the PDK to that engine (although I don't think they would anyway) not for reasons of power and torque (because in the Turbo application the PDK handles more HP and Nm) but for reasons of matching PDK to GT1 engine.

Sorry I cannot put things any clearer.

 

Of course those quotes were "applicable at the time they were quoted." THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT if they were still having problems NOW, they wouldnt have released the PDK w/ the Turbo. I never said PDK was not reliable w/ the stock Turbo engine. I brought up the FACT that there were delays, they were having issues with it handling the torque. You said it "Nothing to do with reliability or handling the torque." You were obviously wrong. 

It's right there in English:

"but has taken longer than some rivals to bring it to market. Initial dual-clutch gearboxes had problems handling large amounts of torque."

"But a 325lb ft limit in its current state rules it out from duty in the Turbo, GT3 and GT3. They’ll get PDK eventually, but it needs to be beefed up first."

"Wolfgang Dürheimer said the PDK could cope with all future torque demands"

I dont think you can get any clearer than the quotes above but if you want to continue arguing about something that is clear as day, here, tell it to other Rennteamers: 

"My dealer tells me that PDK won't be available for the 2009 Turbo. He believes that the technology cannot handle the Turbo engine's torque"

"PDK is not ready for prime time (Turbo torque)."

http://www.rennteam.com/forum/thread/449551/PDK_not_available_for_the_2009_Turbo/page1.html

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Last week you were telling me about how the Ferrari ownership experience doesn't compare w/ Porsche,,,,,,,,,,even though you've never owned a Ferrari & now you're saying the PDK launch had nothing to do w/ reliability in handling torque even though it's right there in print from Porsche... Next time to save a lot of nonsense, maybe a phrase like "oh, I didn't hear about that before" would be better. ..........

toodles~~~~

--

08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet, 06 Ferrari F430,  04 Durango HEMI,  04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle,  93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia

Might have been nicer if they lost the stuffed-cheek golfballs.   

--
2007 997 Turbo

MMD:

Might have been nicer if they lost the stuffed-cheek golfballs.   

 

Haha, here we go again, so you forgot about the wing and all the slots now?  But I agreed with you, that aweful fog light is just quite forgetable.