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    Apr 23, 2014 10:50:50 AM

    reginos
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    reginos
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    Reply to: BjoernB

    Re: 2014 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    A driver nowadays is like a complete business. Management, contract negotiation, physical training, image, merchandising, sponsorships etc.. These all count. And the driver with the best personal package gets in the best car and consequently the winning driver-car combination. 

    In the past era, the car was also very important in terms of aerodynamics (ground effects), mechanical reliability and pit work. The teams with the biggest budgets won.  But the driver-car ratio was 70/30. Nowadays it is 30/70 but still if you put an ape in a RBR he wouldn't deliver. Hill won a title with the best car but he had to struggle nevertheless and Button was in a car that was unopposed for half the season. Big difference from the titles of Vettel, Alonso, Hakkinen and Hamilton.

    Something I am missing from the past is drivers with personality and charisma. Nowadays they are all corporate employees doing a job. I miss characters like JYS, Piquet , Gilles Villeneuve and Prost....and of course the all time Great Niki Lauda.


    --

    "Form follows function"

    Apr 23, 2014 11:05:19 AM

    Carlos from SpainM
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: 2014 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    Hamilton and Alonso had to fight for their titles, but Button's tittle and Vettels' titles are no different, both had a car that was unopposed in those seasons. Any of the top ten drivers could have won those titles in a RBR seat. No one could even challange the RB in the past three years, except for Alonso that almost took one of the seasons in a much infrerior car Ferrari, but that's Alonso for you, give him water and he will turn it into wine.

    I'm not  a fan of Lauda, he has always been an attention needing big mouth to me.

    This year is more of the same only that its Mercedes drivers having all the advantage (well earned advantage by Mercedes though), but at least this year the title is going to one of the two top F1 drivers, not a fan at all of Hamilton myself, but he has evolved into one of the top. The only thing he is weak in is consistentcy and making good desitions and tactical thinking in the races, but with the Mercedes advantage  that will be compensated.


    --

    Apr 23, 2014 11:11:18 AM

    reginos
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    reginos
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: 2014 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    Carlos from Spain:

    I'm not  a fan of Lauda, he has always been an attention needing big mouth to me.

    Maybe you were not following F1 at the time of this great man.


    --

    "Form follows function"

    Apr 23, 2014 11:17:33 AM

    Carlos from SpainM
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    Carlos from Spain
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: 2014 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    reginos:
    Carlos from Spain:

    I'm not  a fan of Lauda, he has always been an attention needing big mouth to me.

    Maybe you were not following F1 at the time of this great man.

    I should have specified more, I'm not reffering to him as a driver, I'm actually reffering to his later years and the unnecesary rightious comments he has been making "from the couch" sort of say about the races, teams, dirvers, etc, I guess trying to grab attention.


    --

    Apr 23, 2014 11:22:10 AM

    reginos
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    reginos
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: 2014 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    Carlos from Spain:
    reginos:
    Carlos from Spain:

    I'm not  a fan of Lauda, he has always been an attention needing big mouth to me.

    Maybe you were not following F1 at the time of this great man.

    I should have specified more, I'm not reffering to him as a driver, I'm actually reffering to his later years and the unnecesary rightious comments he has been making "from the couch" sort of say about the races, teams, dirvers, etc, I guess trying to grab attention.

    IMO Things like these don't reduce history in F1 and his endurance as a human being.


    --

    "Form follows function"

    Apr 23, 2014 1:24:22 PM

    Carlos from SpainM
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    Carlos from Spain
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: 2014 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    I agree, I'm not demeaning his achievements which I respect, I'm just saying that personally and subjectively I'm not a fan of what he has become these last years outside the track.


    --

    Apr 23, 2014 1:40:55 PM

    reginos
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    reginos
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: 2014 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    We all have our failings yes


    --

    "Form follows function"

    Apr 23, 2014 1:50:50 PM

    BjoernB
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    BjoernB
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: 2014 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    Carlos from Spain:
    reginos:
    Carlos from Spain:

    I'm not  a fan of Lauda, he has always been an attention needing big mouth to me.

    Maybe you were not following F1 at the time of this great man.

    I should have specified more, I'm not reffering to him as a driver, I'm actually reffering to his later years and the unnecesary rightious comments he has been making "from the couch" sort of say about the races, teams, dirvers, etc, I guess trying to grab attention.

    Although I am in agreement with you on a lot of F1 things - Lauda is one of my F1 heros what he build behind the sceenes by getting hamilton out of McLaren, x amount of key people from other teams into Mercedes, his influence in this years mercedes success is huge !

    Apr 23, 2014 5:12:23 PM

    Ferdie
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: 2014 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    Carlos from Spain:

    Hamilton and Alonso had to fight for their titles, but Button's tittle and Vettels' titles are no different, both had a car that was unopposed in those seasons. Any of the top ten drivers could have won those titles in a RBR seat. No one could even challange the RB in the past three years, except for Alonso that almost took one of the seasons in a much infrerior car Ferrari, but that's Alonso for you, give him water and he will turn it into wine.

    I'm not  a fan of Lauda, he has always been an attention needing big mouth to me.


    Hm,

    you might remember that I have a very high opinion about Alonso but one should not forget the difficulties he had at the beginning of his McLaren season due to the vastly different character of the Bridgestone tires in comparison to the Michelin versions in the years before. He even lost the qualifying shootout against Hamilton. Does this make him an inferior driver? The situation for Vettel this year is pretty similar since the technical differences, especially the new brake-by-wire system, does not always appear to support an intuitive driving style. 

    I personally believe that four races are simply not enough to determine the real strength of Ricciardo in isolation and in comparison to Vettel. Apart from that, I am very curious how the Red Bull will fare over the entire season. I do not believe that Mercedes will be able to retain their advantage over the entire year or better, if they do, their achievement is even more impressive.

     

    Apr 23, 2014 5:16:27 PM

    Ferdie
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: 2014 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    Carlos from Spain:

    I agree, I'm not demeaning his achievements which I respect, I'm just saying that personally and subjectively I'm not a fan of what he has become these last years outside the track.


    I agree with you that the majority of his statements are bothersome. The comments you read are probably directly derived from his tv commentary for German RTL television which is the intellectual media equivalent of the yellow press.  So I assume they just told him to adjust to the audience.

    Smiley

    Apr 23, 2014 11:10:50 PM

    Atzporsche
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    Reply to: Ferdie

    Re: 2014 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    Laura is a brilliant man, his comments on RTL are often very bad and I get the feeling he really doesn't even want to be there or answer stupid questions. So when he gets fed up he'll say rough things on live television (well RTL which is for 12 year olds) He's also known to disagree with the moderators on live stream and starts arguing. I am not even sure what he got him involved with TV.. we know he's had a great influence on building this new winning Mercedes team! He's a true expert in the field of racing. 


    --

    1991 BMW 535i Granitsilber/White Leather

    Ex: '91 BMW 318i, '89 BMW 525i, '74 Mercedes-Benz 280E, '87 BMW 325is, '86 BMW 325e, '05 Ford Focus ZX4 S, '85.5 Porsche 944

    Apr 24, 2014 2:32:07 AM

    MKSGRM
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    Reply to: apias

    Re: 2014 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    apias:
    MKSGR:

    The title is the title. Those who don't win them will always search for excuses. To win a title is always difficult 

    The more titles the better the driver. Every other benchmark is highly subjective, I feel 

    I don't know, if Mercedes maintain their current dominance through the season, I think Hamilton will rather easily cruise to the title. Sure, he cant exactly phone it in, but his only real competition right now can only come from Rosberg, not from any of the other drivers.

    So, if that's an objective measure, then, following that logic, it means, going by the results so far this season, that not only has Hamilton gained tremendous skill as a driver this season, but that Vettel has lost tremendous skill. That could be. After all, Vettel can't even keep up with his rookie teammate this season, so perhaps he did just lose it over the winter. And, we don't know exactly how, but Hamilton has apparently gained all that Vettel has lost.

    Or is it a more reasonable explanation to observe that, after several years of utter domination by RBR, where Vettel was only really racing against Weber, that the tables have turned and Mercedes, by jumping well ahead of the other constructors is, at least potentially, on their way to creating a new champion in Hamilton? And, if that's the case, does "winning the title" really tell the story of who the best driver is?

    Simple metrics don't necessarily equal objective metrics. Sometimes they just turn out to be arbitrary metrics.

    One title might depend a lot on the car. The next as well. With every title won the chances are getting smaller that it was not based on skill but on luck. If you have 7 like Schumacher you can be pretty sure he was the best. If you have 5 like Fangio same here. And if you have 4 like Vettel - same again Smiley

    Apr 24, 2014 2:53:05 AM

    apias
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    apias
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: 2014 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    MKSGR:

    One title might depend a lot on the car. The next as well. With every title won the chances are getting smaller that it was not based on skill but on luck. If you have 7 like Schumacher you can be pretty sure he was the best. If you have 5 like Fangio same here. And if you have 4 like Vettel - same again Smiley

    You still always have to consider the car vs. the competitors' cars. Mathematical probabilities don't apply if the odds aren't really even and one driver is always rolling loaded dice.

    Apr 26, 2014 8:25:22 PM

    Atzporsche
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    Reply to: apias

    Re: 2014 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    So the mighty Ferrari and McLaren couldn't develop a better car for 4 years compared to some energy drink maker? Please, Ferrari was on par at least two years and with a very talented Alonso, very close in the competition also. Vettel and Alonso are currently the best on the grid with Hamilton, Button and Raikonen followed closely. But eventually what really only counts are championships nothing else. The arguments for Alonso are running thinner by now.. Currently we see especially Vettel and Button struggle with the new car handling, doesn't mean they are not good anymore. Mercedes has a clear advantage, but it is now also expected that the capitalize and take the 2014 championship. I am hopeful that F1 really gets their act together and makes new more sensible rules for next year bringing the teams closer together again... this has totally been lost. I think with Toyota and BMW joining again it could be very interesting. More team is more competition and closer races! 


    --

    1991 BMW 535i Granitsilber/White Leather

    Ex: '91 BMW 318i, '89 BMW 525i, '74 Mercedes-Benz 280E, '87 BMW 325is, '86 BMW 325e, '05 Ford Focus ZX4 S, '85.5 Porsche 944
     
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