Crown

My PDK gear box on my 997.2 Carrera S  broke down .  They don't know exactly what it is , as they are not allowed to open the boxe , but It seems it is the gear selector inside that has a problem .

My car has 140k km , and 10 years old . 

The garage asked Porsche if they can help on financing a new one , but they have refused . Price for a new one with install would be around 18 k Euro . My car is probably worth 35k .

I have three solutions .

- make the repair 

- get rid if the car and maybe get 20k for it 

- find a 3rd party repair shop that fixes these gear boxes . There are some that are able to do it , but I have no adresse . Does anyone has an adresse in Switzerland ? 

Really not sure what to do 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

Maybe another option; get a refurbished gearbox? Not sure how easy these are to come by. Might have a bad impact on resale value, but so does your third option.

Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys

Yes, I think that a 2nd hand gear boxe would be the best solution . I searched a bit , but did not find any yet .

Does anyone has an adresse where I would find one ? Maybe in Germany ? 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

Gnil,

I know of one company in the center of Germany. They were even featured in a car magazine a while ago. No affiliation whatsoever. If you want to I can call them for you and ask about repair of your current gearbox or supply of a refurbished one.

I recently read somewhere that ZF offers aftermarket services ?

d997h:

I recently read somewhere that ZF offers aftermarket services ?

Is the PDK-box from ZF?

1969 Mercedes-Benz 300SEL 6.3  / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS (sold) / 2011 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Performance / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2018 Porsche 911 GT3 Clubsport

Ferdie:

Gnil,

I know of one company in the center of Germany. They were even featured in a car magazine a while ago. No affiliation whatsoever. If you want to I can call them for you and ask about repair of your current gearbox or supply of a refurbished one.

That would be very kind .

I have called around here and no one is opening those boxes , even race car teams don't touch them . They say too complicated . I have searched for a 2nd hand box in CH, F and D . I have found nothing for the moment . Lots of manual boxes for sale, but no PDK . 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

I can't vouch for this company Gnil but they may be able to help if you get no joy elsewhere. Since restoring my various Dino's I've discovered that there is a wealth of automotive talent in the UK amongst small specialists like this who will step in to provide support for owners when manufacturers won't.

https://www.autogearbox.co.uk/dsg-gearbox-repairs/

The PDK in the 997 is a ZF 7DT-45 unit I believe so it may be worth contacting ZF Aftermarket for their help and advice on a more local solution https://aftermarket.zf.com/us/en/aftermarket-portal/passenger-cars-and-lcv/spare-parts-and-products/transmissions/

My mechanic says he can fix your broken PDK box, for what it's worth...

997.2 4S / BMW X5 40e / Donkervoort GT 

Thanks a lot  ISUK . I have contacted ZF and will see what they say . I will also ask your specialist if no luck from others  ( Ferdie gave me an adress in Germany ) .

Would somehow be crazy to have to send my car to the UK to get repaired , but who knows, if at the end it is the only sensible solution . 

Spudgun : I ll get back to you if these other solutions don't work . Thanks for asking you mechanic . 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

997.2 4S / BMW X5 40e / Donkervoort GT 

Gnil:

Thanks a lot  ISUK . I have contacted ZF and will see what they say . I will also ask your specialist if no luck from others  ( Ferdie gave me an adress in Germany ) .

Would somehow be crazy to have to send my car to the UK to get repaired , but who knows, if at the end it is the only sensible solution . 

Spudgun : I ll get back to you if these other solutions don't work . Thanks for asking you mechanic . 

Gnil, have you confirmed your battery is 100% condition?  Our past 997 gearbox acted up and locked actually on two occasions, both were due to low battery.  Apparently PDK is very sensitive to weakening battery and tiny losses in voltage trigger protective errors and shutdown. 

2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2019 Porsche 911 Turbo

4trac:

 

Gnil, have you confirmed your battery is 100% condition?  Our past 997 gearbox acted up and locked actually on two occasions, both were due to low battery.  Apparently PDK is very sensitive to weakening battery and tiny losses in voltage trigger protective errors and shutdown. 

Good suggestion I've had the DCT box in my 4C go a bit loopy due to a battery that was past it's best. Certainly worth ruling out as a possible cause before embarking upon more costly investigations.

ISUK:

4trac:

 

Gnil, have you confirmed your battery is 100% condition?  Our past 997 gearbox acted up and locked actually on two occasions, both were due to low battery.  Apparently PDK is very sensitive to weakening battery and tiny losses in voltage trigger protective errors and shutdown. 

Good suggestion I've had the DCT box in my 4C go a bit loopy due to a battery that was past it's best. Certainly worth ruling out as a possible cause before embarking upon more costly investigations.

 

That would put the whole mechanical department at my garage to shame  I will give them a call to check it out . 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

Gnil:

ISUK:

4trac:

 

Gnil, have you confirmed your battery is 100% condition?  Our past 997 gearbox acted up and locked actually on two occasions, both were due to low battery.  Apparently PDK is very sensitive to weakening battery and tiny losses in voltage trigger protective errors and shutdown. 

Good suggestion I've had the DCT box in my 4C go a bit loopy due to a battery that was past it's best. Certainly worth ruling out as a possible cause before embarking upon more costly investigations.

 

 . 

When they do a diagnostic of the car , they have  to connect it to an outside power source , or at least put the battery on charge at the same time . So , that rules out the battery problem for my car .

The problem they came up with is that it is the displacement sensor . Located on the middle of the gear box .  On the Panamera they placed that connector outside , so you can reach it without touching the gear boxe , but in the 911 it is in the boxe . 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

I'd let ZF know what the fault code is and they should be able to determine what the possible issues are. A quick Google suggests total failures are rare. If the battery on the car is still the original fitted when it was built, or over 5 years old, I'd certainly suggest they try hooking the car up to a new battery. This thread on Rennteam suggests the same https://rennlist.com/forums/997-forum/1089845-error-1731-shift-rod-1-deisplacement-sensors.html

My 4C had it's original battery and I left it always hooked up to a CTEK charger in my garage but the battery was failing to hold a full charge with age and the complexity of all the ECU's in these cars mean they require a very healthy battery to function correctly. Fitting a new battery cured the transmission faults upon start up of the car.

I was sorry to read about the damage.

Bad design on behalf of ZF. Throw away a substantial piece of apparatus for a built-in sensor!

If this happened to my similar car, I would definitely repair it in whatever way feasible after exploring all possibilities. As a costly last resort I would even buy a replacement gearbox from Porsche.

The cash value of the car now is not €35.000 less the cost of replacement gearbox but much less because the potential buyers will take advantage of the predicament and offer a very low amount. The car could even go for spare parts, if sold as a non-runner.

--

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

ISUK:

I'd let ZF know what the fault code is and they should be able to determine what the possible issues are. A quick Google suggests total failures are rare. If the battery on the car is still the original fitted when it was built, or over 5 years old, I'd certainly suggest they try hooking the car up to a new battery. This thread on Rennteam suggests the same https://rennlist.com/forums/997-forum/1089845-error-1731-shift-rod-1-deisplacement-sensors.html

My 4C had it's original battery and I left it always hooked up to a CTEK charger in my garage but the battery was failing to hold a full charge with age and the complexity of all the ECU's in these cars mean they require a very healthy battery to function correctly. Fitting a new battery cured the transmission faults upon start up of the car.

On that thread  , the guy ( Hatzenbach ) had to have his box replaced . Looks like the same error , fault I have on mine .

On the Panamera , the same fault does not require a change of the boxe , as the sensors are located outside of the boxe . This is not the car on the 911, they are located inside the boxe . 

When I called the garage this morning about the battery , they insisted that when they do the diagnosis of the car , the protocole obliges them to hook the battery on a power source ( or something in that line ) so as to not have a false fault coming from bad energy source .  So 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

reginos:

I was sorry to read about the damage.

Bad design on behalf of ZF. Throw away a substantial piece of apparatus for a built-in sensor!

If this happened to my similar car, I would definitely repair it in whatever way feasible after exploring all possibilities. As a costly last resort I would even buy a replacement gearbox from Porsche.

The cash value of the car now is not €35.000 less the cost of replacement gearbox but much less because the potential buyers will take advantage of the predicament and offer a very low amount. The car could even go for spare parts, if sold as a non-runner.

--

 

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

 

Agreed . I have actually already a guy who would buy it ....... and I know he does only because he knows it would be an excellent deal for him .

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

Any feedback from ZF so far ? 

I think a lot of workshops these days take the easy route of saying things like these are sealed units that can't be repaired etc. The reality is that they simply don't have the knowledge or experience to carry out anything other than straight component swaps. Manufacturers agree deals with suppliers like ZF to take problem boxes back on exchange during the warranty period as this is a cheaper way of effecting a repair and putting a car back on the road quickly. They then tell their dealer network that these gearboxes are sealed units and not to open them up. This approach leaves ZF with the issue of determining the fault at their expense but lets down owners of older cars.

These units will be repairable I'm sure, especially if it is a case that it is simply an internal control unit failure. Hopefully ZF will give you assistance but if not the people at Autogearbox might now that you have narrowed down the potential fault.

If you needt a fifth opinion, you can always talk to my mechanic.

Don't take my word for it, I've never had a faulty gearbox but if you want to reach out to the guy:  http://vaneykenmotors.be (Belgium)

Godspeed! 

997.2 4S / BMW X5 40e / Donkervoort GT 

ISUK:

I think a lot of workshops these days take the easy route of saying things like these are sealed units that can't be repaired etc. The reality is that they simply don't have the knowledge or experience to carry out anything other than straight component swaps. Manufacturers agree deals with suppliers like ZF to take problem boxes back on exchange during the warranty period as this is a cheaper way of effecting a repair and putting a car back on the road quickly. They then tell their dealer network that these gearboxes are sealed units and not to open them up. This approach leaves ZF with the issue of determining the fault at their expense but lets down owners of older cars.

These units will be repairable I'm sure, especially if it is a case that it is simply an internal control unit failure. Hopefully ZF will give you assistance but if not the people at Autogearbox might now that you have narrowed down the potential fault.

Totally agree on that notion, most dealerships rather exchange than repair parts which is not that surprising given the amount of warranty work they carry out and also the relation of manhour & chance of success vs. replacement cost in most cases.

To their defense though, I would rate the DSG gearboxes as one of the most complex components in a modern car and would not expect many garages to successfully carry out such a repair. 

Ferdie:

ISUK:

I think a lot of workshops these days take the easy route of saying things like these are sealed units that can't be repaired etc. The reality is that they simply don't have the knowledge or experience to carry out anything other than straight component swaps. Manufacturers agree deals with suppliers like ZF to take problem boxes back on exchange during the warranty period as this is a cheaper way of effecting a repair and putting a car back on the road quickly. They then tell their dealer network that these gearboxes are sealed units and not to open them up. This approach leaves ZF with the issue of determining the fault at their expense but lets down owners of older cars.

These units will be repairable I'm sure, especially if it is a case that it is simply an internal control unit failure. Hopefully ZF will give you assistance but if not the people at Autogearbox might now that you have narrowed down the potential fault.

Totally agree on that notion, most dealerships rather exchange than repair parts which is not that surprising given the amount of warranty work they carry out and also the relation of manhour & chance of success vs. replacement cost in most cases.

To their defense though, I would rate the DSG gearboxes as one of the most complex components in a modern car and would not expect many garages to successfully carry out such a repair. 

The Porsche garage told me they have nothing on the internals of the PDK boxes. No diagram , no number parts , no possibility to order parts , no permission from Porsche to open them .

This way of doing is indeed practical when the car is under warrantee but after that it becomes a big waist   ( and hugely expensive ) for something that could be probably  done with a more durable approach . They would just need official partners to work with .  Also the gearbox is an important part of a car . You can't  just close your eyes about it .

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

spudgun:

If you needt a fifth opinion, you can always talk to my mechanic.

Don't take my word for it, I've never had a faulty gearbox but if you want to reach out to the guy:  http://vaneykenmotors.be (Belgium)

Godspeed! 

 

 

Thanks for the link . Now I do have quite a few and will see how things turn out . If I get no satisfaction from the ones I contacted , I will ask you guy 

My best hope for the moment is that ZF , who has an official repair shop in Switzerland , can take care of the boxe . 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

Gnil:

 

The Porsche garage told me they have nothing on the internals of the PDK boxes. No diagram , no number parts , no possibility to order parts , no permission from Porsche to open them .

This way of doing is indeed practical when the car is under warrantee but after that it becomes a big waist   ( and hugely expensive ) for something that could be probably  done with a more durable approach . They would just need official partners to work with .  Also the gearbox is an important part of a car . You can't  just close your eyes about it .

I'm not surprised that the main dealers have no info on these gearboxes. The modern workshops are staffed with "technicians" as opposed to old fashioned mechanics. The art of fault finding and actually repairing components is dying out which completely flies in the face of modern sensibilities on reducing waste and recycling to help the environment. Porsche Classic will wake up to the opportunities this presents them in future for new revenue streams. If they are sensible they will start to offer a factory approved reconditioned PDK gearbox exchange service to owners. With modern next day logistics services it is fairly easy to ship out items of this nature very speedily to main dealers.

Good luck with the various leads provided. Hopefully one of them will be able to resolve the problem for you and hopefully at a sensible cost

Sorry to read that the 997 has some trouble. +1 from my side for attempting a repair at an independent workshop, because a different used car may come with its own set of problems. Keeping my fingers crossed 

Why do you want to keep the car? I suspect this will only be the beginning of the financial drain. 

Having everything is nice, but it's even nicer to make sure everything you've got is actually worth having.

Doesn't have to be a financial drain really, it's more like bad luck that it was the gearbox, I put 200,000km on a 997S -20mm manual without any issues and I don't think Gnil is close to that yet, and his 997S with the -20mm and PDK is a great fun daily driver which is what he uses it for, if he sells it he would not be able to buy something even close to what the 997-20mm offers for the same money.

--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS