Crown

RC:

Well, maybe he inhaled too many of these fuel fumes at some point...  

I actually worked in the old industry doing container and shipping calculations and programs to account for water in fuel and evaporation. If this is added to the cost of going and getting the fuel ⛽️ versus just plugging in it is similar to the current drain from batteries sitting around. In fact, if you want to make fun of something the battery loss can is most like much less. Sadly I do find myself going out of my to get good gas unlike Carlos - 10 meters is unbeatable - but I doubt I pay more for the gallon than he pays for the liter. 

Anyway , this is the only point I was addressing. Trying really hard to not excite anyone.  The bottleneck is battery availability, cost of EV vehicles and range in general.  The grid is never going to be the bottleneck. If anything batteries will delay the upgrades it needs and make it more reliable. 
Keep in mind - average commute per person is a much different than average commute per driver. If per driver your electric use goes up by 10% that is more like 2.5% per person. Assuming a massive one in four people own and drive cars.   Ask yourself - is another 2.5% available off peak?  And if a battery can be used during peak demand rather than the grid to balance the load are we not asking less of the grid during peak and shifting both household and car use to off peak?   More than enough to account for the few outliers when you need a full charge that night. 

Im against laws and governments making us own EVs. Even tax incentives suck imho. There are plenty of good reasons for some like me to make the shift without big brother and if you allow the free market to determine the timing the transition will be far more orderly and less chaotic.  I’m just pointing out that very few are concerned that the grid is the main obstacle (if they understand VPP tech and benefits and EV charging).  Naturally you can ignore that batteries can power the home during peak hours for days and that cars and houses can then totally schedule power use and not be offline during power outages.  You can also pretend everyone owns cars and drives 24x7 or that gasoline is cheap and ICE cars are more efficient and faster. I’m not even going to make an environmentalist comment cause that’s not me. 
Maybe read up on VPP because like EVs it will impact investment in the power and utility sector now. There will be some good opportunities and major losers.  My humble prediction is that in ten years you will all have homes with some type of five to ten day energy storage.  Most likely that storage will be on wheels if you own a car. 

 

Leawood911:

Sadly I do find myself going out of my to get good gas unlike Carlos - 10 meters is unbeatable - but I doubt I pay more for the gallon than he pays for the liter. 

It's definitely a lot cheaper there... varies from EU country to county but 1.80$ per liter here.

Maybe we could have a thread about EV economics and debate it there?

2019 911 GT3 RS,1964 Type 1

Too late, they're already discussing bagels in that thread

DaveGordon:

Maybe we could have a thread about EV economics and debate it there?

Oh shit. Messed up. Sorry. I try to at least add one relevant comment. I think it all started because the Mac was hybrid. Cheers

Leawood911:

RC:

Well, maybe he inhaled too many of these fuel fumes at some point...  

I actually worked in the old industry doing container and shipping calculations and programs to account for water in fuel and evaporation. If this is added to the cost of going and getting the fuel ⛽️ versus just plugging in it is similar to the current drain from batteries sitting around. In fact, if you want to make fun of something the battery loss can is most like much less. Sadly I do find myself going out of my to get good gas unlike Carlos - 10 meters is unbeatable - but I doubt I pay more for the gallon than he pays for the liter. 

Anyway , this is the only point I was addressing. Trying really hard to not excite anyone.  The bottleneck is battery availability, cost of EV vehicles and range in general.  The grid is never going to be the bottleneck. If anything batteries will delay the upgrades it needs and make it more reliable. 
Keep in mind - average commute per person is a much different than average commute per driver. If per driver your electric use goes up by 10% that is more like 2.5% per person. Assuming a massive one in four people own and drive cars.   Ask yourself - is another 2.5% available off peak?  And if a battery can be used during peak demand rather than the grid to balance the load are we not asking less of the grid during peak and shifting both household and car use to off peak?   More than enough to account for the few outliers when you need a full charge that night. 

Im against laws and governments making us own EVs. Even tax incentives suck imho. There are plenty of good reasons for some like me to make the shift without big brother and if you allow the free market to determine the timing the transition will be far more orderly and less chaotic.  I’m just pointing out that very few are concerned that the grid is the main obstacle (if they understand VPP tech and benefits and EV charging).  Naturally you can ignore that batteries can power the home during peak hours for days and that cars and houses can then totally schedule power use and not be offline during power outages.  You can also pretend everyone owns cars and drives 24x7 or that gasoline is cheap and ICE cars are more efficient and faster. I’m not even going to make an environmentalist comment cause that’s not me. 
Maybe read up on VPP because like EVs it will impact investment in the power and utility sector now. There will be some good opportunities and major losers.  My humble prediction is that in ten years you will all have homes with some type of five to ten day energy storage.  Most likely that storage will be on wheels if you own a car. 

 

in my old house I am averaging ~120kW per day usage, not counting charging cars. If I charge a car that day then it's another 80kW or so on top. Now at my new place I am averaging ~50kW a day without charging cars. 

If I were to have a 5-10 day energy storage, plus car charging on top, that would means I will need a minimum 750kW of energy storage. 

Cost of EVs aren't that much more than normal cars now, they are also good enough on range for daily usage. who drives more than 400km a day regularly?

Excuse for battery production limiting EV supply is just that, an excuse. By Elon. Mostly. if battery production is really limiting supply, dealer lots won't have ANY EVs sitting there waiting to be bought, that isn't happening, even Tesla lots are full of unsold cars. 

To understand the masses, one cannot think like a EV owner. This is where you get everything wrong bud. You THINKING like a EV owner, you SEE things from a EV owner's point of view. That's why you still can't understand why people don't think plugging in at home and charging at every night is a 'convenience'. 

Consumers just aren't THAT interested in buying pure EVs right now because of infrastructure not catching up. It's a mentality thing. They wanted to have the same perceived convenience of having gas pumps, i.e. chargers, on every corner, even when they might not even use them ever. 

For those that want good range and not asking for luxury, any model of Teslas are good enough. For those that wanted a luxurious EV, they can get a Taycan or a e-Tron. For those that are on a budget and want something cheap, there are the Leafs and Kias. Cars aren't the problem.

Hybrids are the current in thing. With infrastructure lagging behind, buying a hybrids means best of both worlds for consumers atm. They get the green car benefits from the government but they know they have a gas tank with a gas engine to fall back when they are out of charge. Performance hybrids that doesn't sacrifice performance for the sake of being 'green' also helps. 

While this is the Mac thread I will note that your energy consumption is perhaps not typical. So your power requirement is a bit high. And of course you fully charge your car.  By contrast my 75 kWh battery would last for days powering the house.  At least you got close to an understanding of VPP and you can see how it would help with peak demand. Nice. You just need more batteries.  Which if you ask anyone - are the limiting factor.  Tesla does not have any cars sitting around not spoken for and the others simply suck so they don’t sell   - there is no battery surplus. 

Now you are reading my mind and telling me what I think rather than going back to what we were talking about. For one thing you have no idea how an EV owner thinks much less me.  Maybe you don’t want to understand.  Next it is as though EV owners all think the same (prejudice on display) and that speaking of battery storage is somehow a topic ‘only EV fanboys’ engage in.  Is that EV thinking thing the biggest slam you have today?  Perhaps I would ask how you have an EV and be so wrong about the tech?

I mentioned all the reasons why people don’t yet buy EVs and they are similar to yours.  The grid is just not the limitation.  Time to charge yes. Not having charging at home or apartment, yes. Cost - of course - for now. 

Now you are back to Tesla not being luxurious which is purely a matter of taste. Oh boy.  I don’t have the need, at all, to look rich.  I am fine owning a Kia and driving it every day.   In fact in my family we don’t just keep a low profile from neighbors we also keep a low profile within the family.  We consider it horrible taste to have big houses or expensive cars as long as kids, ten generations from now, need to go to college.  The Tesla is the perfect fit in such a climate.  I took a lot of heat for my Porsches over the years, and my relatively large home.  Most parents would be proud mine not so much  

Then directly to hybrids which seem to have a special place in your heart - I hear someone has a performance hybrid - but not a fanboy of course.  It is a good investment while sitting there. At least we are back to topic. 

soughtafterautos The all-new 670HP McLaren Artura in the color Flux Green
@mclarengreenwich

Did I get it wrong or is the Artura almost as fast as the 720S from 0-300 kph? I think I remember the performance numbers to be similar (one second or so difference)? This is pretty impressive for a car in this price range.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

RC:

Did I get it wrong or is the Artura almost as fast as the 720S from 0-300 kph? I think I remember the performance numbers to be similar (one second or so difference)? This is pretty impressive for a car in this price range.

Numbers from McLaren press releases.

Leawood911:

While this is the Mac thread I will note that your energy consumption is perhaps not typical. So your power requirement is a bit high. And of course you fully charge your car.  By contrast my 75 kWh battery would last for days powering the house.  At least you got close to an understanding of VPP and you can see how it would help with peak demand. Nice. You just need more batteries.  Which if you ask anyone - are the limiting factor.  Tesla does not have any cars sitting around not spoken for and the others simply suck so they don’t sell   - there is no battery surplus. 

Now you are reading my mind and telling me what I think rather than going back to what we were talking about. For one thing you have no idea how an EV owner thinks much less me.  Maybe you don’t want to understand.  Next it is as though EV owners all think the same (prejudice on display) and that speaking of battery storage is somehow a topic ‘only EV fanboys’ engage in.  Is that EV thinking thing the biggest slam you have today?  Perhaps I would ask how you have an EV and be so wrong about the tech?

I mentioned all the reasons why people don’t yet buy EVs and they are similar to yours.  The grid is just not the limitation.  Time to charge yes. Not having charging at home or apartment, yes. Cost - of course - for now. 

Now you are back to Tesla not being luxurious which is purely a matter of taste. Oh boy.  I don’t have the need, at all, to look rich.  I am fine owning a Kia and driving it every day.   In fact in my family we don’t just keep a low profile from neighbors we also keep a low profile within the family.  We consider it horrible taste to have big houses or expensive cars as long as kids, ten generations from now, need to go to college.  The Tesla is the perfect fit in such a climate.  I took a lot of heat for my Porsches over the years, and my relatively large home.  Most parents would be proud mine not so much  

Then directly to hybrids which seem to have a special place in your heart - I hear someone has a performance hybrid - but not a fanboy of course.  It is a good investment while sitting there. At least we are back to topic. 

Actually I have 2 performance hybrids  You forgot about my Panamera turbo S hehe.

With a 35ish km electric range, the Panamera works pretty much like a EV for city use, bonus is that it will get fully charged in 3 hours instead of 12 like in the Taycan. 

I have EVs, hybrids and normal cars in my garage, I can see both sides of the argument and can easily side with you from the point of view as a EV owner on issues. Range isn't an issue since the e-Tron days and the Taycan has even greater range. Charging is convenient at home in the garage, when I got my new place first thing I did was to get the electrician to install my level 2 charger in the garage.  As owners we knows the benefits and convenience of EVs, but we aren't the typical normal consumers. They don't think this way. We are the 1% exceptions, not the norm.

BTW did you know on a per capita basis, Tesla sold the most cars in my city? But their lots here are still full of cars and anyone can just walk right in and walk out with a Tesla, no website ordering needed. 

On my daily Highway 99 commute, I sometimes will see 3 Teslas in a row. They are selling very well in the Vancouver area, especially to those that are commuting. The Tesla 3 really opened up their sales.

The Flux Green looks too much like Loaded Diaper 

But an amazing car. Given the tech I fear the extra cost of the additional complexity on Macs legendary depreciation. This may be a bargain in a few years. They all are. 

AJ:

On my daily Highway 99 commute, I sometimes will see 3 Teslas in a row. They are selling very well in the Vancouver area, especially to those that are commuting. The Tesla 3 really opened up their sales.

 

must be the high gas price in BC. what is the price of 91 at the moment?

Topspeed:

RC:

Did I get it wrong or is the Artura almost as fast as the 720S from 0-300 kph? I think I remember the performance numbers to be similar (one second or so difference)? This is pretty impressive for a car in this price range.

Numbers from McLaren press releases.

720S independently tests at about 19.5s 0-300, maybe Atura will as well 

997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

2021 McLaren 765LT incoming 

993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.

wantone:

AJ:

On my daily Highway 99 commute, I sometimes will see 3 Teslas in a row. They are selling very well in the Vancouver area, especially to those that are commuting. The Tesla 3 really opened up their sales.

 

must be the high gas price in BC. what is the price of 91 at the moment?

CAD$1.699 per liter atm.

wantone:

AJ:

On my daily Highway 99 commute, I sometimes will see 3 Teslas in a row. They are selling very well in the Vancouver area, especially to those that are commuting. The Tesla 3 really opened up their sales.

must be the high gas price in BC. what is the price of 91 at the moment?

Nah, its the environmental oath of allegiance all BC residents must swear allegiance to.  Of course, they let Whoopsy in before that was a requirement.... 

2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2019 Porsche 911 Turbo

Price for the good stuff is $1.60/L

Topspeed:

soughtafterautos The all-new 670HP McLaren Artura in the color Flux Green
@mclarengreenwich

I like this car, I think it looks great. To me the best looking modern McLaren yet, they have continuously improved their design in Woking. 

We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

I agree.  This is actually right now the only V6 engine sports car I would be interested in. I like the Maserati MC20 too but considering the performance of the MC20 and the Artura...worlds difference.  I mean who in it's right mind would choose the MC20 over the Artura, especially since the Artura even costs less (I think)?

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

Is the MC20 already out? 

997.2 4S / BMW 745e / Donkervoort GT 

spudgun:

Is the MC20 already out? 

Last year I've been told that deliveries start in March 2021? 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a35905066/mclaren-artura-120-degree-v-6/

The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.

A 120 degree V6 in a production car! Common rod journals should at least make for one stout crankshaft

Gladstone:

A 120 degree V6 in a production car! Common rod journals should at least make for one stout crankshaft

Yeah, not much longer than a 3cyl engine like the Yaris...

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

mclaren-artura-accleration-figure-official

BTW, I don't like the interior. For some reason, it looks dated.

The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.

nberry:

mclaren-artura-accleration-figure-official

BTW, I don't like the interior. For some reason, it looks dated.

Typical McLaren interior?  Looks simplistic and nice in my opinion, almost timeless.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

Reviews came out today: