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    Re: Congrat!

    Thanks William,
    Yes I agree with you, I will get it debadged, it's not a good thing to have that kind of car in France, people get jaleous, sad but true, typically french.
    Fanch.

    Sports Car drivers beware!

    German AUTO ZEITUNG just tested the S 600 and they were pretty impressed. On their "reference race track", the S 600 was 1.5 seconds faster(!) than the BMW M3. Ouch, I'm impressed! Compared to the new BMW 760 Li, the S 600 is 1.2 seconds faster from 0-120 kph. Impressive. 0-100 kph time is "only" 5.0 seconds but this should be enough to outrun many so called sports cars out there. Braking distance from 100 to 0 kph is below 39 meters, again impressive.
    Not bad for a car with 2.1 tons of weight.

    Re: S600

    I was pleased to see Fanch's post regarding his S600 on the Sports Car Board. It outperforms many sports cars. I took delivery of a CL600 (Pewter/Charcoal), my daily driver, this past Wednesday and the car is phenomenal. It's performance is stronger than my '01 Tiptronic 996 Turbo. Mercedes is producing some excting automobiles.

    Driving pleasure first!

    Larry,
    Congrats on your CL600.
    I agree with you, it is a phenomenal car from an engineering point of view.
    And yes our S600 outperfoms our 996 on a straight, but the enjoyment is all in the Porsche, the way it handles, the way it sounds, etc etc etc.
    Don't you think so?
    The S and CL600 are very fast cars, but I don't take great pleasure in driving it, the steering feels very very numb and you feel completely disconnected from the road which is fine when you're a chauffeur or a hurried businessman!
    but not when you are a car enthousiast.
    I am sure I would have more pleasure driving a 120hp Lotus Elise
    Power is NOT everything!
    I hope you've kept the 996 Turbo
    Fanch.
    PS: Tell me what you think about what I've written.

    BTW Larry...

    Just checked your profile,
    mama mia, very nice string of cars there!
    Congrats man!
    So tell me, which car gives you the most pleasure?
    Fanch.
    PS: Just to relaunch the debate (hehehe), how do you compare the 996 Turbo to the 360 in terms of driving pleasure?

    Re: Driving pleasure first!

    I'm not sure customers will always appreciate the fact that Porsche cars are very fast when it comes to curves and handling. They want to have a great straight line performance too. A Porsche has always to be ahead of any high power limousine out there. I hope Porsche starts to understand this.
    People are not always buying the car for it's brandname and reputation/tradition only, they want to have great performance too.

    Re: Driving pleasure first!

    Yes that's true.
    And I think they will get there.
    I have faith.
    My point was that, a Porsche will handle like a sport car, the S600 will be very close to you on a straight (or ahead of you if you're driving a regular 996 as a matter of fact ) but at the first bend, you're gone.
    But I see your point Chirstian, it's a bit frustrating and annoying from the sports car owner point of view
    Fanch.

    Re: Driving pleasure first!

    How many people drive their Porsche on the track? Right, not many. Yes, it is in fact annoying to drive a Porsche on the Autobahn and a heavy weight limousine outruns you.
    I know my neighbour's frustration who owns a MY 2000 or 1999 (don't remember anymore) 996 C2 with a Techart power upgrade (25 HP from my understanding) after he got outrun by my wife's SLK 32 on the Autobahn. We met by accident, he didn't know it was me until I mentioned it. This is actually the fun about the SLK 32 AMG: nobody thinks this little baby (girl's roadster as one friend of mine said a few months ago ) outruns a real sportscar.
    And now imagine the E 55 which I had the pleasure to drive. This car is a beast, it even outruns a SL 55 up to 300 kph and this is a huge limousine (it is around 100 kg lighter than the SL55). Now I understand why AMG doesn't offer a CLK 55 with the supercharged V8. It would probably outrun the SL55 pretty easy. There might be a problem with the rear axle too (as I heard from somebody at DC) but this is nothing they couldn't solve.

    As much as I'm a Porsche addict, I started to admire those high power limousines and SUVs. It is incredible that a Cayenne Turbo, a SUV, a family car, a 2.5 t monster outruns a 993 C2 up to 200 kph. Unbelievable. And it is unbelievable that a E 55 has the same performance from 0-200 kph as a 996 Turbo with manual. Porsche HAS to do something about it, it is almost 5 to 12 and they should be careful.

    Re: Driving pleasure first!

    RC,

    you made a good point. porsche is IMO sucking out their legendary past. they are spoiled because of their good sales and seem to think that this will go on forever. i have my doubts.

    i know quite some porsche owners who are not pleased at all because the autobahn performance is only equal or below to all the high powered limousines. top speed doesn't count because it needs to long to reach it. some say "yeah but my car has sporty genes and is faster on the track". BUT THEY ARE NOT DRIVING ON THE TRACK. btw: the std 996 carrera IMO isn't a track car at all. we've said this so often on this forum, but they do nothing about big leage motorsports, their cars are outrun by armadas of fast limousines (not only supercharged mercs, boxsters even can't cope with my 320CDI on the autobahn), the resale value is dropping and the cayenne is pointless, boring and tearing down the brand values that help to still sale the 996.

    porsches are bought because of their history. but why should porsches be bought in five to ten years time from now? wiedeking is destroying the legend and doing very little for the power hungry.

    shareholder value above all. but only short term?

    Re: Driving pleasure first!

    Zzoba,
    I understand your anger, but it's not that bad.
    Wiedeking saved the company from going bust in the early 90s, let's not forget that...
    You know, it's not just about Porsche, these new breeds of Uber saloon cars (E55, RS6, new S8, etc.) are taking on EVERY sport cars!
    The Modena, is slower than the Turbo so needless to say, it also suffers from the comparaison, the Astons, the Maseratis, the Jaguars, they ALL suffer, none of them have the 500hp of the S600 nor the 476 of the E55AMG as a matter of fact.
    Only the 575MM with its 515 and the Lambo Murci are up there and still have way less torque than the Mercs.
    The Zonda is an exception.
    So, it's not ONLY Porsche.
    This escalation of power is bit "pointless" IMO.
    Ok, I can see the flames coming towards me now,
    "what do you have in your garage Francois?"
    Ok ok, I'll give you that, but you see, I don't even compare the S600 to my 996 or a turbo or any other sport car, it's a different machine made to take you from A to B in total confort as fast as possible and with your family, a Boxster is made to put a grin on you face on a sunny day, and it does
    Fanch.




    Re: Driving pleasure first!

    fanch,

    i'm not angry about porsche [well at maybe a little because of the cayenne]. i'm more afraid about porsche

    i agree that this power thing is a bit pointless. merc is putting a super- or turbocharger into nearly every engine and installing so many micro chips in the car that the driver isn't needed any more but this development, as pointless as it might be, is dangerous for porsche and they have to think about it. and why does the cayenne turbo have 450 HP and is less expensive than the 420 HP 996TT?

    but what concerns me most, is that wiedeking IMO isn't such a great guy like many portfolio managers and analysts think.

    as far as i am informed the boxster was already in development when he took over the company. he is harvesting the fruits others have seeded: the great image, the great brand value. porsche's brand value is the most precious thing they've got. but he's not too caring about it.

    i have no doubt about his management skills, IMO he would be the coolest production officer of all times. but he's not a car guy at all.

    he should be measured by the things he achieved. and that can only be done in some years time IMO.

    take the "carrera GT" for example. the board couldn't even decide about it right away, because it wasn't sure that they are going to make some money with it. but what about all the boxster buyers who are enjoying their car because of the carrera GT?
    [ok, they are going sell it. but IMO compared to the enzo or the McL F1 or even the SLR the carrera GT looks boring anyway -- and it should be a coupé]


    Re: Driving pleasure first!

    You raised a very good point, the Cayenne Turbo is cheaper than the 996 Turbo and that's weird,
    I'm glad we agree on the power escalation issue.
    As for the future of Porsche, well, let's just wait and see,
    I have faith
    Fanch.

    Re: Driving pleasure first!

    Porsche already seems to have learned a lesson...by raising the power of the Carrera GT over 600 HP. But this has a reason too: the new SLR will get (now this is a rumor guys, don't nail me on that one) at least 600 HP.
    I hope Porsche starts to adapt power figures on the 996/997 and Boxster too because otherwise, they'll be in serious trouble in a few years. Nobody, especially not a Porsche driver, wants to be outran by a limousine. Yes, Porsche profits a lot from tradition right now but how long will that last? They don't really race anymore and their cars can't keep up with the newest top of the line Mercedes limousines. Something is wrong indeed. More POWER is the secret...

    Re: Thanks Justin!!!

    Hello Fanch,

    I've heard that the SL disposes of massage seats. Is this a gadget or gives it a good feeling ??
    The Mercedes looks nice, but there is no substitute for a Porsche even when a Mercedes is faster.

    Best wishes,
    Rufie.

    Re: Thanks Justin!!!

    definitly a gadget, not worth it.
    You play with it for a couple of hours and that's it...
    Thew air conditionned in the seats however is very good and nice in the summer.
    But you're right, there is no substitute for a Porsche, especially not a Merc.
    Take care,
    Fanch.

    Re: Driving pleasure first!

    Out of touch for a few days - the two automobiles serve two very different purposes for me. The CL is a "daily driver" where as the 996 Turbo is a "fun" car, which I use on the track occasionally, and for fun drives. What I really am enjoying in going from the CL to the Porsche, is the similarity in performance on normal roads. The size, the handling, and the communication to the driver of the Porsche is difficult to beat.

    Re: BTW Larry...

    Sorry for the late reply - busy work week. In order to answer fanch's question regarding my "fun cars" I asked myself the following question - "If I had to elminate one car each month, in what order would that be?". The Maserati would go first (in fact this will happen at the end of this month, being replaced by a SL 55). The Ferrari 550 next. Now it gets tough!!! Well, I will jump ahead and say the Lamborghini would be the last to go. It is just such an outrageous automobile and, presently, in a class by itself. So, between the 996 Turbo and the 360 Modena, that is very difficult. They are such different automobiles. The Porsche is just so well put together and a car you can just get into and take off. The Ferrari design on the 360 is so fantastic. Since I would then still have the Lambo, I guess the 996 Turbo would go before the 360. That would be one very difficult decision. Now, if I could have only one car, needing to give up my daily driver(CL 600), it would be the 996 Turbo Tiptronic without a moments hesitation. It is such an outrageous, all around, fantastic automobile. Realize my wife has a Mercedes Wagon so we would still have a four door, five passenger car.

    Re: BTW Larry...

    Good analysis Larry,
    Thanks,
    Clear and to the point,
    I think I agree with you about the choice of only one car.
    Turbo Tiptro is just THE allrounder! (although, I'd go for a manual...)
    Fanch.

     
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