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    Re: Porsche Cayman GT4...

    I keep hearing that the 7-speed manual is just a PDK with one of the clutches removed and a clutch pedal and manual shift linkage - i.e. same case and attachment points just not all the parts required to make it an automatic.  SO why is it not possible to use this transmissions anywhere you use the PDK?  I really don't care if I have to shift and I do it slower than the PDK does.  Am I the one going fast or is the car?

     


    Re: Porsche Cayman GT4...

    Porsche Cayman GT4 (2015): hottest Cayman yet spied...

     
    (2 July 2014)
     
    The new, be-winged 2015 Porsche Cayman GT4 coupe has been caught testing near the Nurburgring in Germany by CAR magazine's spy photographers.
     
    It's a major change for the Porsche Cayman sports car: the GT4 is due to become the first factory-finished turbocharged Cayman in the model's eight-year history and it's the first roadgoing Porsche expected to deploy the GT4 badge.
     
    Following in the footsteps of the Cayman R - and then some - the forced-induction Cayman GT4 is bound to raise questions with enthusiasts, who are already fretting over the revvy nature of its turbocharged flat-six in forums such as Pistonheads.
     
    CAR understands the engine powering the GT4 is the company's 3.8-litre twin-turbo boxer six, tuned to develop around 450bhp.
     
    Our new scoop pictures of next year's GT4 reveal a surprisingly beefed-up coupe, with aero addenda to make a Cayman R's modest rear spoiler look positively weedy.
     
    A massive track-spec rear wing sits on the Cayman's bootlid to squash the rear of the car into the road at speed, while the front-end spoiler is the most aggressive yet seen on a Cayman.
     
    But the visible changes only scratch the surface of the upgrades going on under the skin to keep the 450bhp Cayman GT4 on the road. Huge extra cooling vents channel more air to the flat six engine and the beefed-up brakes, visible through the new lightweight, five-spoke alloy wheels.
     
    This prototype Porsche Cayman GT4 is fitted with a pretty beefy rollcage and there's a functional diffuser wrapped around the centre-exit twin exhaust pipes.
     
    Porsche is developing the GT4 brand for its junior sports cars, leaving the GT3 and GT2 badging for the more senior 911s.
     
    Porsche 981 Cayman: a growing family
     
    The 981-spec Porsche Cayman has had its product cycle extended, according to CAR's Zuffenhausen sources, meaning that we can expect a stream of derivatives.
     
    While the previous 987-era coupe had only Cayman, Cayman S and Cayman R versions - give or take a Black Edition special or two - the new model is due to get a raft of spin-offs.
     
    Porsche has already shown the Cayman GTS, which we've driven this summer, and the new GT4 is destined to become the most extreme Cayman yet.
     
    Will it encroach too far into 911 territory? The clue is in the name: the GT4 is designed to be hardcore, but different in character to the more focused 911s.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: Porsche Cayman GT4...

    KresoF1:

    Problem is that PDK test mule is almost 5s faster then manual mule, both with 3.8l NA. 

    How fast? Do you know the time? Maybe in a moment of weak character you could happen to slip it into a post... Smiley

    With 450hp, GT3 suspension and R-compound tires I am guessing sub 7:30. It would not be far behind the GT3. Which sadly means it will cost like a GT3 Smiley


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: Porsche Cayman GT4...

    bluelines:
    KresoF1:

    Problem is that PDK test mule is almost 5s faster then manual mule, both with 3.8l NA. 

    How fast? Do you know the time? Maybe in a moment of weak character you could happen to slip it into a post... Smiley

    With 450hp, GT3 suspension and R-compound tires I am guessing sub 7:30. It would not be far behind the GT3. Which sadly means it will cost like a GT3 Smiley

    thats the problem i've been complaining for years  about ..the real world / real owner track-street  performance vs factory Ringtime internet bench racing ...which most sporty car manufacturers are shrewdly taking advantage of...e.g.,  if you want near-GT3 Ringtime  in a GT4 , we will charge by the Ringtime ( which only our best factory driver can achieve with a hyper optimized tester )  , not by the relative model hierarchy  pricing 

     


    Re: Porsche Cayman GT4...

    KresoF1:

    Grant, 

    Problem is that PDK test mule is almost 5s faster then manual mule, both with 3.8l NA. 

    Reality is that latest generation of sportscar is designed with DCT as their prime choice. All those "networked" systems apparently work much better with DCT then with manual.

     

     

    I guess the reasons you give are partly to blame, but I also think they are probably comparing PDK-S with its very close 7 ratios to the 6spd manual with wide ratios.  A 7spd manual would perform better, but by all account, the shift quality suffers from the contorsions necessary to make the PDK box behave like a double-H pattern manual (mechanical translator required, as in 991).


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: Porsche Cayman GT4...

    bluelines:
    KresoF1:

    Problem is that PDK test mule is almost 5s faster then manual mule, both with 3.8l NA. 

    How fast? Do you know the time? Maybe in a moment of weak character you could happen to slip it into a post... Smiley

    With 450hp, GT3 suspension and R-compound tires I am guessing sub 7:30. It would not be far behind the GT3. Which sadly means it will cost like a GT3 Smiley

    It would likely have 430hp or less (X51, Kreso said NA), so I think it won't get to 7:30 even with Cup 2's.  It's not going to cost like a GT3 - nobody would pay that.


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: Porsche Cayman GT4...

    Kreso - don't you think some of the 5 sec difference is probably down to LSD (electronic for PDK and mechanical for manual, due to lack of hydraulic pump)?


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: Porsche Cayman GT4...

    No way this costs less than $100k base in US...


    Re: Porsche Cayman GT4...

    SciFrog:

    No way this costs less than $100k base in US...

    I think it will be less, but not by a lot.


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: Porsche Cayman GT4...

    Grant:

    Kreso - don't you think some of the 5 sec difference is probably down to LSD (electronic for PDK and mechanical for manual, due to lack of hydraulic pump)?

    To some extent answer is yes.

    Another reason is that PDK-S in Sport + program use shift pionts that are totally understandable only to experienced racing driver. They compared fastest laps and on manual some shifting points are totally different to PDK-S shifting points. In depth analysis shown that what "feels" very fast in manual mule is actually slower then what "feels" normally fast in PDK-S mule.


    Re: Porsche Cayman GT4...

    I think it would already be a big leap for Porsche to introduce a Cayman with more than 400 hp and GT3 "trim" ... So, given the experiences from the past, I doubt that there will be a 430 or 450 hp output which would well intrude into 991 S or even GT3 territory.  For marketing reasons, P. could just settle for something like "415 hp" which would be well between the 991 S and the X51 - hardcore gentlemen 991 drivers would not be (really) offended and those "new" customers would have a hard time deciding on either mid-engine or rear engine layout without this "if I take a cayman I am inferior to my neighbour badge" - my 2 cts -  


    Re: Porsche Cayman GT4...

    Unless Porsche has some new ideas about marketing their cars, and making it less about horsepower and more about driving dynamics and what else the car offers. There are a lot of cars out there with horsepower equivalent to or higher than much more expensive Porsches, so marketing and pricing cars on a strict horsepower hierarchy plays into competitors strategies of pumping more horsepower into their cars to make them seem superior. Allowing a Cayman GT4 to have more horsepower than a Carerra S begins to change the message from Porsche away from just raw power to other factors where other manufacturers will have more trouble competing in their marketing.


    Re: Porsche Cayman GT4...

    d997h:

    I think it would already be a big leap for Porsche to introduce a Cayman with more than 400 hp and GT3 "trim" ... So, given the experiences from the past, I doubt that there will be a 430 or 450 hp output which would well intrude into 991 S or even GT3 territory.  For marketing reasons, P. could just settle for something like "415 hp" which would be well between the 991 S and the X51 - hardcore gentlemen 991 drivers would not be (really) offended and those "new" customers would have a hard time deciding on either mid-engine or rear engine layout without this "if I take a cayman I am inferior to my neighbour badge" - my 2 cts -  

    Don't forget that facelift is coming soon and Carrera S will have more than 400hp and much more torque from turbos, facelift X51 will be even more powerful and facelift GT3 is coming too...


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: Porsche Cayman GT4...

    Yeah, but this would be a surprise given Porsche's cayman strategy from the past decade - by the way..., I love surprises ! Smiley


    Re: Porsche Cayman GT4...

    Porsche Cayman GT4...

    Porsche-Cayman-GT4_road-test.jpg

    ...looking awesome on road! Smiley

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: Porsche Cayman GT4...

    There was similar hyperbole coming from the press prior to the Cayman R introduction.  While the pictures of the so called GT4 look promising, if past is indeed prologue, then the internals are likely to fall short of the hype.


    --

    "Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill


    Re: Porsche Cayman GT4...

    DaveC:

    There was similar hyperbole coming from the press prior to the Cayman R introduction.  While the pictures of the so called GT4 look promising, if past is indeed prologue, then the internals are likely to fall short of the hype.

    Indeed.

    The bigger brake discs are a give away though. Some internals have changed Smiley Or it is a test car exclusive model Smiley


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: Porsche Cayman GT4...

    DaveC:

    There was similar hyperbole coming from the press prior to the Cayman R introduction.  While the pictures of the so called GT4 look promising, if past is indeed prologue, then the internals are likely to fall short of the hype.

    Right, but they made a big stink about how they have now decided that the Cayman and 911 markets don't really overlap and the Cayman will now be allowed to develop without restriction.  If they underwhelm with this car, they will do damage to the GT Motorsport brand as well as continue to frustrate and alienate those who want a true motorsport Cayman.


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: Porsche Cayman GT4...

    Grant:
    ...they made a big stink about how they have now decided that the Cayman and 911 markets don't really overlap and the Cayman will now be allowed to develop without restriction. 

    Yeah? Smiley Where? When? What?


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: Porsche Cayman GT4...

    In addition to the Porsche Cayman GT4 there will be a Porsche Cayman GT4 Cup prepared by Porsche Motorsport...

    Porsche-Cayman-GT4-Cup.jpg

    ...so the Porsche Cayman GT4 will effectively be used for motorsport homologation! Smiley

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: Porsche Cayman GT4...

    bluelines:
    Grant:
    ...they made a big stink about how they have now decided that the Cayman and 911 markets don't really overlap and the Cayman will now be allowed to develop without restriction. 

    Yeah? Smiley Where? When? What?

    If I find the article, I will post it.  Pretty sure I wasn't just dreaming it Smiley


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: Porsche Cayman GT4...

    Grant:
    bluelines:
    Grant:
    ...they made a big stink about how they have now decided that the Cayman and 911 markets don't really overlap and the Cayman will now be allowed to develop without restriction. 

    Yeah? Smiley Where? When? What?

    If I find the article, I will post it.  Pretty sure I wasn't just dreaming it Smiley

    I dreamt it so many times by now it is hard to differ imagination from reality Smiley


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: Porsche Cayman GT4...

    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    ...so the Porsche Cayman GT4 will effectively be used for motorsport homologation! Smiley

     

    That sounds promising, but the answer to the next question does not Smiley The Cayman is held back, Porsche does not want a competitor to the 911 and it is not their intention to build a Cayman that (all things equal) is faster than the 911.

    Then again, these interviews mean nothing. There was similar interview a few years back where they swore to never ever put a diesel in a Porsche Smiley Well, well.


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: Porsche Cayman GT4...

    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    In addition to the Porsche Cayman GT4 there will be a Porsche Cayman GT4 Cup prepared by Porsche Motorsport...

    Porsche-Cayman-GT4-Cup.jpg

    ...so the Porsche Cayman GT4 will effectively be used for motorsport homologation! Smiley

    Smiley SmileySmiley

     

    Could you (or anyone else that might know) mention where this article is from, and also when it was published? I'm just curious if this is something very recent or not.

    Thanks.

    -nh4.


    Re: Porsche Cayman GT4...

    nh4:

    Could you (or anyone else that might know) mention where this article is from, and also when it was published? I'm just curious if this is something very recent or not.

    From the "Total 911" magazine in October 2013.


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: Porsche Cayman GT4...

    Thanks bluelines. The anticipation of an answer to the "Is this a marketing exercise or an engineering project" question is killing me! The more connections I see between the GT engineering groups and the GT4 the more confident I am that this car really could be something special. I know I'll probably be waiting quite some time for something official though!

    -nh4.


    Re: Porsche Cayman GT4...

    What engine is Porsche prepared to race in a Cayman GT4? At least anytime soon? 


    --

    "Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill


    Re: Porsche Cayman GT4...

    3.8 Turbo?  No way, it would make far too much power and be a complete monster.  The car wouldn't fit into the range offering or engine-strategy-wise.

    3.8 NA? Possibly - it would be a nice surprise, but again, given the imminent downsizing in cylinders and capacity I think it's unlikely - unless they want to produce a real last-of-the-breed.  I'd buy it indecision

    My guess is a turbo 4 - hopefully a boxer rather than an inline.  A multi-plane turbo V4 would be some exotic fun but I really am dreaming there.  A turbo 4 seems likely to me as it would be the perfect vehicle to use as a sweetener for getting a 4-cyl out there.  It would pave the way for lesser models by showing a 4-cyl can be fun, reduce the weight (in line with sports and economy values) and avoid stepping on the 911 GT3's toes by being 'lesser' as both a Cayman and a 4-cyl.

    I guess someone must have heard it going round the 'ring - should be pretty easy to pin down NA/turbo and number of cylinders, but no-one seems to have commented on this.


    --

    2011 987S, 1964 Type 1


    Re: Porsche Cayman GT4...

    I've driven a 420hp, 3.8l Boxster btw.  It was superb.  The extra torque made all the difference.  That in a lightened, track-spec Cayman really would be something special.


    --

    2011 987S, 1964 Type 1


    Re: Porsche Cayman GT4...

    DaveGordon:

    3.8 Turbo?  No way, it would make far too much power and be a complete monster.  The car wouldn't fit into the range offering or engine-strategy-wise.

    3.8 NA? Possibly - it would be a nice surprise, but again, given the imminent downsizing in cylinders and capacity I think it's unlikely - unless they want to produce a real last-of-the-breed.  I'd buy it indecision

    My guess is a turbo 4 - hopefully a boxer rather than an inline.  A multi-plane turbo V4 would be some exotic fun but I really am dreaming there.  A turbo 4 seems likely to me as it would be the perfect vehicle to use as a sweetener for getting a 4-cyl out there.  It would pave the way for lesser models by showing a 4-cyl can be fun, reduce the weight (in line with sports and economy values) and avoid stepping on the 911 GT3's toes by being 'lesser' as both a Cayman and a 4-cyl.

    Me too Smiley

    A 4-cylinder turbo would mean a "new" engine type for a niche model. Too expensive. Unless they use this in the 981.2 afterwards.

    The simplest would be a higher tune of the existing 3.4l engine at 360hp. Push up the rev limit and make it a bit more aggressive Smiley I think that would be the most fun car.


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


     
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