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    German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    Performance results:

    0-100 kph: 4.7 sec. X5 M vs. 4.8 sec Cayenne Turbo S

    0-200 kph: 16.4 sec. X5 M vs. 16.7 sec. Cayenne Turbo S

    Interesting: 

    0-40 kph: 1.2 sec. X5 M vs. 1.5 sec. Cayenne Turbo S

    (which confirms my observation that the X5 M starts faster from standstill than the Cayenne Turbo S)

    The overall winner is the BMW X5 M but the Cayenne Turbo S did actually pretty well.

    I'll post more details tomorrow, right now I need to go to sleep. Too much work today.  Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    They are almost equal and the time difference is about 5 years... Thanks for posting!

    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    Boyko23:
    They are almost equal and the time difference is about 5 years... Thanks for posting!


    1. the Cayenne facelift is barely 2 1/2 years old (complete technical overhaul like new engines, active suspension, etc.)

    2. the Cayenne Turbo S costs, with the "necessary" options, aprox. 150000 EUR. Deduct even 20000 EUR rebate (which is a lot from an official Porsche dealer) and you still have a price tag of 120000 EUR.

    3. my X5 M costs, with the "necessary" options, aprox. 96000 EUR after rebate.

    4. Resale value loss is higher on the Cayenne Turbo S. Buy the car for 120000 EUR now and one day later, if you want to sell it, you can be happy if you get 90000 EUR for it.

    My current Cayenne Turbo S is worth at most dealers around 33000-39000 EUR. Car is only three years old and has barely 50000 km on it. Porsche dealers are willing to pay up to 49000 EUR.

    Take the X5 M after 3 years. I paid 96000 EUR. After three years, the car has a value of aprox. 53000 EUR. Do you get the point?

    Any more questions ? I thought so. Smiley

    Nobody says the Cayenne Turbo S is a bad car, on the contrary. It just isn't worth it.

    Btw: the next generation Cayenne Turbo (not S) will cost slightly more than the current one and the power figure is rumored at around 540 HP at best.  The new Turbo S will have very likely something in the 580 HP range but it will cost a fortune. IF the Cayenne gets the planned weight loss, it will be the hell of a truck. If not (hint: cost reasons after financial trouble this year), it will have a good but not best performance.

    You don't seem to understand: the X5 M is a FAMILY car, I still have a 997 Turbo in my garage. Why would I pay an extra of over 30000 EUR to get a Porsche SUV? For the brand? C'mon, there is barely somebody on this planet who knows the Porsche brand better, including some development insight. I love Porsche but I'm not willing to sell my underpants for a family car, sorry. Smiley 

    Some food for thought from a different point of view: I just checked some older car magazines and found the BMW M3 Coupe (current model) test results. 0-100 kph in 4.7 seconds and 0-200 kph in 16.3 seconds. The performance of the X5 M and even Cayenne Turbo S seem now even more fascinating.

    Another comparison: Porsche Cayenne Turbo S pre-facelift 0-100 kph in 5.2 seconds and 0-200 kph in 18.9 seconds (which btw could suggest that the Cayenne Turbo S testcar in Auto Zeitung was in a pretty good shape, especially since it was even over 120 kg heavier than the X5 M).

    My wife's BMW M3 Cab DKG does 0-200 kph in 18.3 seconds, thanks to a 200 kg weight increase over the Coupe. OUCH.

    For those who can't deal with these figures, one last example:

    Porsche 993 Carrera 2, 0-200 kph in 21.7 seconds. Monster SUVs rule...especially as family cars for fast Daddys. Smiley Smiley


    --
     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    The last comparison is awesome... really puts into perspective how much our perception of a fast car changed over just ~15yrs...


    --
    Cash, gas or ass... no one rides for free!

    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    janus:

    The last comparison is awesome... really puts into perspective how much our perception of a fast car changed over just ~15yrs...

    Performance has gotten much better, but they are far less fun to drive imo.  I suppose if you lived in Germany with unrestriced autobahns, you can really make a case for these vehicles.  Otherwise, give me the 993...
     


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello


    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    RC:

    Performance results:

    0-100 kph: 4.7 sec. X5 M vs. 4.8 sec Cayenne Turbo S

    0-200 kph: 16.4 sec. X5 M vs. 16.7 sec. Cayenne Turbo S

    Haha. This is so sad. Performance differences between SUV:s. Oooh, the BMW is a whole 0.1 sec faster to 100 kph. I guess this is very useful for all the fast daddys who like to race each other at the red lights in town Smiley

    image.axd.jpeg


    --

    987 Boxster S, Arctic Silver with 'Martini Racing' Livery, H&R Monotube Coil-Overs, H&R Anti Roll Bars, Strut Brace, FVD ECU, BMC Air Filter, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, Recaro Racing Shells, PSE.

    997 Carrera 4S, Guards Red, Bilstein PSS10 Damptronic, H&R Anti Roll Bars, IPD Plenum, Dension Gateway 500, PSE.


    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    Actually, it's more about the Cayenne's lack of value/performance, which means Porsche needs to wake up and fix their performance issues when a BMW X6M costing less than 2/3 of the of a Cayenne Turbo S spank it's ass while offering the same if not better interior quality.

     


    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    Whoopsy:

    Actually, it's more about the Cayenne's lack of value/performance, which means Porsche needs to wake up and fix their performance issues when a BMW X6M costing less than 2/3 of the of a Cayenne Turbo S spank it's ass while offering the same if not better interior quality.

     

    Cayenne's performance is top in isolation but it might appear lacking because of its higher price.

    It is a well known secret that Porsche make huge profit on each unit produced because the Porsche brand name is worth more than BMW. I am not debating whether this right or wrong but that's how it is. Porsche would be mad to reduce the price since there is effective demand at current prices.

    Similarly, Ferrari can charge more for their cars than Porsche because they have a more expensive badge. A Ferrari California is poor value compared to a 997.2 Turbo but the cavallino of Ferrari is worth more than Stuttgart's horse.

    I wonder why we have to debate these things when we've been living in modern times when lifestyle, image and brand name are often above substance in all products that we consume. Smiley


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts


    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    x5m is as fast 0-200 as a 997.1 carrera s.


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    intouch1:

    x5m is as fast 0-200 as a 997.1 carrera s.


    Which again...is very impressive. The Cayenne Turbo S performance figure is of course impressive too.

    What I like about the X5 M is the fact that nobody actually thinks/knows how fast this thing is. Here are more photos of "my" X5 M (of course not MY X5 M but it looks exactly the same with the exception of the interior of course, incl. the rims). Looks almost like an ordinary X5. Perfect "understatement" car.

    x5mp1.jpg

    x5mp2.jpg

    x5mp3.jpg

     

    x5mp4.jpg

     

    x5mp5.jpg


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    looks just like a standard X5 except for:

    - exhaust

    - wheel arches

    - air intakes

    - side vents

    - M emblem

    - wheels

    - fat tires

     

    but i still get your point ! it does not have the 'badge value' of the cayenne. the X5M might be more widely accepted than a cayenne diesel by the 'common man' on the road.


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    intouch1: 

    it does not have the 'badge value' of the cayenne. the X5M might be more widely accepted than a cayenne diesel by the 'common man' on the road.

    That is one reason, the other is the fact that most people neither will nor can distinguish the M version from a good looking diesel variant (that appears the more sensible solution for most people) as most X5s on the road here feature tire and suspension upgrades. An X5 diesel is widely accepted, a Cayenne diesel will be regarded as a poor man´s choice. 

    As a sidenote, I do not expect that the X5M´s resale value will be as good as mentioned above but the loss will still be significantly lower than on the Cayenne (and dismissible if the car is leased).

    Smiley


    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    Ferdie:
    That is one reason, the other is the fact that most people neither will nor can distinguish the M version from a good looking diesel variant (that appears the more sensible solution for most people) as most X5s on the road here feature tire and suspension upgrades. An X5 diesel is widely accepted, a Cayenne diesel will be regarded as a poor man´s choice. 

    As a sidenote, I do not expect that the X5M´s resale value will be as good as mentioned above but the loss will still be significantly lower than on the Cayenne (and dismissible if the car is leased).

    Smiley

     

    Very well said. I also doubt that 99% of my customers/neighbors/friends will ever recognize the X5 M.

    I remember when a young customer of mine told me how beautiful the white 3 series Cab in front of my office is but he would prefer the M3 Cab. Smiley My wife's M3 Cab DKG is completely de-badged but a single look inside the car would actually unveil that it is the M3. He didn't get it and he isn't the only one. Smiley

    WE are car nuts, some of us probably recognize a certain model of a car by the engine/exhaust sound but most people aren't like us.

    The X5 M is the perfect understatement car for Bavaria, over here not a soul cares about the X5. They DO care however about the X6, it is considered to be an exclusive car like the Cayenne. This is another reasons I went for the X5 M. 

    Yes, the Cayenne Diesel is considered the "poor men's" Cayenne, this is why it sits at the dealers like a dead duck. 

    Just half an hour ago, I saw my first Panamera on the street over here in my town and it wasn't a dealer car (local dealer has a certain license plate "coding"). Again: HUGE, this car is not made for our streets, as sad this makes me. I'm so happy I could resist the urge to go for it, it is such a fantastic car and I almost "fell" for it. 

    Btw: a downsized Panamera has been considered for the next generation but I suppose it comes a little bit late. So I guess the next Panamera is going to be based on some Audi or VW model "kit".


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    funnilly enough, i think that especially in these times, the perception of people should be VERY different. they should actually support 'Made In Germany' much more than they do.......even if the products are far beyond their reach.

    a lowly japanese or french import should currently be regarded as far more 'hostile' than a gas guzzling cayenne turbo or mec S65 or anything like that.


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    RC:

    Just half an hour ago, I saw my first Panamera on the street over here in my town and it wasn't a dealer car (local dealer has a certain license plate "coding"). Again: HUGE, this car is not made for our streets, as sad this makes me. I'm so happy I could resist the urge to go for it, it is such a fantastic car and I almost "fell" for it. 

    Btw: a downsized Panamera has been considered for the next generation but I suppose it comes a little bit late. So I guess the next Panamera is going to be based on some Audi or VW model "kit".

    RC, You keep calling the Panamera huge in a somewhat negative way and I don't understand what is actually your implication Smiley

    It's the same size (give or take a few mm) as other top limousines like M-B S and BMW 7, so what's so special about the Porsche size?

    Even your X5 is only very few cm shorter but because of its 34cm (!!!!!!) more height it takes up a huge volume of space.

    What you try to say by "huge" is perhaps, impressive and imposing with elements of grandeur which I believe it really is.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts


    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

     RC,

     

    I never thought that social neighbourhood can influence greatly choosing the car model

    Is it that tough in Germany where you live?

    Rgrd X5M - it is very nice and I think its the best SUV currently at the market


    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    intouch1:

    funnilly enough, i think that especially in these times, the perception of people should be VERY different. they should actually support 'Made In Germany' much more than they do.......even if the products are far beyond their reach.

    a lowly japanese or french import should currently be regarded as far more 'hostile' than a gas guzzling cayenne turbo or mec S65 or anything like that.

    Very true.

    Moreover, if the German Motor Industry Federation explain to people that 1 in 7 Germans are employed directly or indirectly by the motor industry then the public's perception of cars might change.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts


    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    artur777:

     RC,

     

    I never thought that social neighbourhood can influence greatly choosing the car model

    Is it that tough in Germany where you live?

    Rgrd X5M - it is very nice and I think its the best SUV currently at the market

     

    A little "simple" example:

    in Germany, when a doctor drives a Porsche, some people may actually avoid him because they think he has enough already.

    In other countries, for example in countries of the former eastern block, people avoid a doctor with a cheap and old car because they actually think he isn't good enough if he can't afford something nicer. Smiley

    According to an Audi official paper, they developed the new Audi A8 to "fit" into the current social climate in Germany and other countries. Well...nothing more to say.

    Regarding the Panamera: I saw the Panamera next to a Mercedes S class and the new BMW 7 series and yes, it isn't actually much bigger but it LOOKS much bigger in any way possible. My dealer could actually sing a nice song about this but I mentioned it over and over again. This is a car for countries where the social perception is different. For Germany, this is definetely the wrong car, even for people who drive a S-class or 7 series BMW.

    I would have loved to own the Panamera but I want to keep my customers. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    RC:

    I would have loved to own the Panamera but I want to keep my customers. Smiley

    Unless, you keep it  hidden in a secret place like the good dentist Smiley


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    I keep my 997 Turbo hidden...the X5 M is our family car, no way to hide it.   


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

     you keep 911 Turbo hidden?

    how is that possible?

    rgrd your reply - I see that isocial cliamte is not easy now, and in Germany especially... Panamera is nice, but people dont understand it at all... may be in 3-4 years when the economic cycle goes up we will some pisitive changes in public perception


    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    artur777:

     you keep 911 Turbo hidden?

    how is that possible?

    Yep. Many people over here do the same.

    When I look at my colleagues, they usually have a BMW 3 or 5 series or a VW Golf in front of their business. Looking in their garage at home, things look completely different.

    Also de-badging is a national sport over here, I barely see a Mercedes E class or BMW 5 series with a model designation, not even mentioning the 7 series or S class.

    I won't forget the time when my wife got her first Mercedes SLK. I drove it to work and one of my older customers asked me if this "expensive sportscar" is mine.

    Things are different in larger (and different) cities like Munich for example. My town is a worker town, small incomes, huge envy factor.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    Time to go to Munich;-)))?? 


    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    intouch1:

    x5m is as fast 0-200 as a 997.1 carrera s.


    That is very sad Smiley


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    Unfortunately for Cayennes, it's not being regards as a 'pure' Porsche that's worth the amount of money it commands, there are a lot of 'it's just an expensive version of VW's Toureag, a rebadged VW, a Porsche made by VW, etc' floating around. We car buffs knows the truth and those comments are not true, but it's quite a fact that to the ignorant public these are somewhat acceptable to them.

     

    Even though I know the truth, I still don't like the fact that VW has a version of the Cayenne, it cheapens the car, the Cayenne brand value, one of the reasons I didn't have one. BMW on the other hand may be a step down in prestige vs Porsche, but the X6/X5 has no cheap cousins, and with the M badge, I know it is top in BMW's ladder.

    Ferrari can sell their cars at such a high price because of the brand image, plus, none of their cars have cheap cousins that dilute the brand value.


    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    Well...what would Ferraristi say if they knew that the new California actually was...a Maserati. 

    Personally, I never cared about the VW Touareg or the fact that many non-visible Cayenne parts, with the exception of the engine and interior, were carrying the VW logo on them.

    Most Cayenne control units even have a VW part number. 

    There are only two reasons why I couldn't justify to wait for the next gen Cayenne and go for it:

    1. cost

    2. public perception

    and maybe 3. resale value

    Right now, the time wasn't right for a Panamera or next gen Cayenne. Maybe in two or three years...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    California would be a perfect Maserati... Should have been born like that...


    --
    Cash, gas or ass... no one rides for free!

    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    It's no shame to be a Maserati, it's still a prestige brand, a sports car brand.

    But 'People's wagon'? There is something quite wrong there with the brand name on a luxury car.


    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    Whoopsy:

    It's no shame to be a Maserati, it's still a prestige brand, a sports car brand.

    But 'People's wagon'? There is something quite wrong there with the brand name on a luxury car.

     

    Surprisingly, VW has a pretty bad reputation in the US and other parts of the world. In Germany, the brand VW actually has a pretty good reputation, next to Audi and BMW, maybe at a slightly lower level.

    Also don't forget that VW owns Audi, Lamborghini, Bugatti, Bentley and of course Porsche. They also own Seat, Skoda and the well known truck manufacturer Scania.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: German Auto Zeitung compared the X5 M vs. the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

    RC:

    Well...what would Ferraristi say if they knew that the new California actually was...a Maserati. 


    In the US Maserati is a highly regarded brand. More so than Audi, BMW, MB, Porsche, Jaguar, etc.
    You'll be notice and respected.SmileySmiley


     
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