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    Koenigsegg sets Supertest Records!

    Koenigsegg sets Supertest Records!

    Under right conditions could be the first production car under 7:30 tested by none other than the man himself Von Saurma!!

    http://www.koenigsegg.com/news/articles.asp?news=98&page=&type=news

    Re: Koenigsegg sets Supertest Records!

    "All the acquired data and settings, such as wheel alignment, tire pressures etc, is available to any Koenigsegg customer. Utilizing this data, the CCR drivers can set up their KACS system to - "Ring Dominance", in order to obtain Nordschleife track day superiority."


    love the direction Koenigsegg's moving in...

    truly masterful boutique operation with fantastic vision, exemplary detail-design and successes to date in their brief history


    Re: Koenigsegg sets Supertest Records!

    Quote:

    Koenigsegg sets Supertest Records!
    [...]
    Under right conditions could be


    Anyone noticing a contradiction in these two statements?:)


    Quote:
    The Supertest conducted by Sportauto cheif-editor Horst von Saurma is considered a true benchmark of performance.


    Oh, so it's not just a porsche-biased crap, as some members suggest?

    Re: Koenigsegg sets Supertest Records!

    Quote:
    brunner said:
    Quote:

    Koenigsegg sets Supertest Records!
    [...]
    Under right conditions could be


    Anyone noticing a contradiction in these two statements?:)


    Quote:
    The Supertest conducted by Sportauto cheif-editor Horst von Saurma is considered a true benchmark of performance.


    Oh, so it's not just a porsche-biased crap, as some members suggest?



    Don't be silly! Everyone knows Sport Auto and AMS are negatively biased towards anything not German and that goes for the F430, Gallardo and the Z06. Don't even dare to say otherwise, you Porschephile!!!
    .
    .
    .
    .
    [/sarcasm]

    Re: Koenigsegg sets Supertest Records!

    In case you havent noticed

    Tire technology, suspension design and engine management systems have all made quantum leaps in the past 5 years.
    So Porsches lock on high performance is a thing of the past.

    Porsche game is annoying at times. The 997TT really doesnt offer much better times than a 996TT with X51/X70/LSD and new tires. And for another 9K a 996TT can exceed a 997TTs hp and torque making it the faster car of the two.

    If Renault wanted to even they could be build a 'Ringmeister street car. The technology is no big deal now, its the productization and marketing of it
    that is.

    Even a small company like Koenigsegg knows how to do it. All it takes is will, talent and desire. None of wich are a Porsche exclusive anymore, sad to say.

    Re: Koenigsegg sets Supertest Records!

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Tire technology, suspension design and engine management systems have all made quantum leaps in the past 5 years.
    So Porsches lock on high performance is a thing of the past.

    Even a small company like Koenigsegg knows how to do it. All it takes is will, talent and desire. None of wich are a Porsche exclusive anymore



    When in the past did Porsche ever have a "lock on high performance"?

    When was high performance ever "exclusive" to Porsche?

    The end of that era has been lamented so many times here on rennteam.com in the recent past, yet I have no memory of "history" really having been like that.

    My memories are of Porsche as an underdog whose small-engined, technologically-compromised (rear-engined, air-cooled, VW-Beetle derived) products were described as being a triumph of development over design, because they always seemed to be able punch well above their weight.

    So, apart from the reduction in the number of technological compromises which current models suffer from (911s are still rear-engined, but otherwise do not carry over any technology from the VW Beetle) nothing else seems to have changed much.


    Except maybe some other people's perception of history.

    Re: Koenigsegg sets Supertest Records!

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    In case you havent noticed

    Tire technology, suspension design and engine management systems have all made quantum leaps in the past 5 years.
    So Porsches lock on high performance is a thing of the past.

    Porsche game is annoying at times. The 997TT really doesnt offer much better times than a 996TT with X51/X70/LSD and new tires. And for another 9K a 996TT can exceed a 997TTs hp and torque making it the faster car of the two.

    If Renault wanted to even they could be build a 'Ringmeister street car. The technology is no big deal now, its the productization and marketing of it
    that is.

    Even a small company like Koenigsegg knows how to do it. All it takes is will, talent and desire. None of wich are a Porsche exclusive anymore, sad to say.



    Jim, I never claimed a TTS with LSD and X73 wasn't just as fast (look up some other posts of mine, even one from today). Fritz put it right, Porsche was never about power, although some of us tend to forget that.

    Re: Koenigsegg sets Supertest Records!

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Tire technology, suspension design and engine management systems have all made quantum leaps in the past 5 years.
    So Porsches lock on high performance is a thing of the past.

    Even a small company like Koenigsegg knows how to do it. All it takes is will, talent and desire. None of wich are a Porsche exclusive anymore



    When in the past did Porsche ever have a "lock on high performance"?

    When was high performance ever "exclusive" to Porsche?

    The end of that era has been lamented so many times here on rennteam.com in the recent past, yet I have no memory of "history" really having been like that.

    My memories are of Porsche as an underdog whose small-engined, technologically-compromised (rear-engined, air-cooled, VW-Beetle derived) products were described as being a triumph of development over design, because they always seemed to be able punch well above their weight.

    So, apart from the reduction in the number of technological compromises which current models suffer from (911s are still rear-engined, but otherwise do not carry over any technology from the VW Beetle) nothing else seems to have changed much.


    Except maybe some other people's perception of history.



    My comment about Porsches lock on high performance was directed at lap times for a street car on a road circuit -
    that was the context of this thread.

    And yes, Porsche used to have a lock on that segment. There was no stock Corvette that could perform credibly at the ring before the C5 Z06. No Ferrari Daytona, Testarossa or 355 could either. They simply were not engineered well enough. Porsche had a huge lead in that for decades all the way back to the 71 911S versus Jag XKE vs Corvette 350. So yes, they had owned that segment of performance.

    Now they don't. There are many sports cars and sports sedans today competent at high performance, not just with lots of power for a straight line.

    So Porsches previous advantage of rear engine/RWD traction with lightweight and strong accellerative power has been put to rest by the wheel sizes, brake and tire technology and engine outputs of today.

    Time marches on!

    I ask, where is my short stroke high revving flat 8 CGT-2?

    Spare me the Panameras or Mini Cayennes please!

    Re: Koenigsegg sets Supertest Records!

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:

    My comment about Porsches lock on high performance was directed at lap times for a street car on a road circuit -
    that was the context of this thread.

    And yes, Porsche used to have a lock on that segment. There was no stock Corvette that could perform credibly at the ring before the C5 Z06. No Ferrari Daytona, Testarossa or 355 could either. They simply were not engineered well enough. Porsche had a huge lead in that for decades all the way back to the 71 911S versus Jag XKE vs Corvette 350. So yes, they had owned that segment of performance.

    Now they don't. There are many sports cars and sports sedans today competent at high performance, not just with lots of power for a straight line.

    So Porsches previous advantage of rear engine/RWD traction with lightweight and strong accellerative power has been put to rest by the wheel sizes, brake and tire technology and engine outputs of today.

    Time marches on!

    I ask, where is my short stroke high revving flat 8 CGT-2?

    Spare me the Panameras or Mini Cayennes please!



    This is true, but we should thank tyre devolopments and not another thing. If it weren't for the modern tyres, the CCR, Z06, M5 and many more would not be drivable.

    A simple test is to measure the performance on a wet track (low adhesion) and the difference will be there.

    I am not trying to help Porsche, but now a not perfect chassis can produce great dry times thanks to new tyres. A good example is the Top Gear video of the AMV8, 997S, M6. I am sure if it was dry they would be producing almost the sames times

    PS About the CCR it has a fully adjustable suspension like a race car, so the car was deliberately setup for the ring and not a universal setup, that is why the factory was there, so it's kind of cheating IMO. Did anyone saw Tiff comments on 5th gear about this car? well the 5 minutes it worked

    Re: Koenigsegg sets Supertest Records!

    Rafael, its not cheating. The Koenigsegg suspension is easily adjusted. The Porsche suspension is not. Tough beans for Porsche. They have PASM and its dynamically adjusted shocks, nice, but the suspension points cannot be quickly adjusted for street or track. Too bad!

    If you want a owner adjustable suspension for a PASM Porsche, Bilstien now offers a coil over PASM suspension for 997s with PASM. Since Porsche chooses not to include that on its own options list, thats just tough luck. Go buy it elsewhwere! Then you too can choose settings for the street and track.


    Re: Koenigsegg sets Supertest Records!

    Jim:

    The problem is you need a race engineer to fine tune a suspension for a track. Even if the setup could be change very easy, getting the correct setup parameters is not an easy job, it could take a long time. And we can bet how many CCR owners could have the slight idea of how to do this.

    PS And there is always the problem if you missjudged by a good margin you could get sudden oversteer in the very fast ring sections If I was a car company, I would like to offer 2 or 3 settings and not a full adjustable kit.

    Re: Koenigsegg sets Supertest Records!

    Agreed: 'You need a race engineer'.

    Most of us know that most cars are tested in a wide variety of situations and are an inevitable compromise. Adjusting suspension is not just a product liability issue for the manuafacturer it is a life and death issue if you get it wrong.

    I think it should not be too easy to change these things and only then when someone who really knows what they are doing helps. In the GT3 brochure Porsche offers to provide advice on settings and support for specific venues. This is a good idea...

    Snap oversteer on fast ring sections...

    Re: Koenigsegg sets Supertest Records!

    Do any of you find it curious that just about every car manufacturer has an explanation as to why their car Ring times could be faster? What does that tell you about Ring times?

    Regarding Von Saurma, this much we know, he did not beat the CGT time. Anyone surprised? Also, do you think they will turn the car over to him for the spring run?

    Re: Koenigsegg sets Supertest Records!

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Do any of you find it curious that just about every car manufacturer has an explanation as to why their car Ring times could be faster? What does that tell you about Ring times?

    Regarding Von Saurma, this much we know, he did not beat the CGT time. Anyone surprised? Also, do you think they will turn the car over to him for the spring run?



    No, they won't, because he's a biased German, who doesn't appreciate ANYTHING not Porsche. Is that what you wanted to hear?

     
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