Crown

Board: AMG Mercedes Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Beastly comparisons

    There have been a number of comparisons of the E55, RS6 and the yet to come M5. The consensus I draw is that the MB is a luxury car made powerful while the other two are more like sports cars. A critical issue then becomes luxury.

    The issue is supported by the fact that the E500 on which the E55 is based is more expensive than the BMW 5 series cars and the S6. I would be interested in knowing in what way the E55 is more luxurious. Is the ride less rough which would explain any shortcomings in handling? Are the interior appointments more luxurious? Are htere more comfort features?

    Another issue. Power is created by burning gasoline in air. The more air one gets into cylinders per minute the greater the `power.' --- other things equal. MB does it by force feeding air into cylinders through a supercharger. BMW possibly does it by increasing RPMS. Therefore, to get power out of an M5 one would have to get the RPMs real high. If I am not on a track or at least alone, I would find revving up the engine and shifting into gear a bit too tracklike and rather silly for day to day driving. Comments?

    Re: Beastly comparisons

    I agree w/ you that the E55 is no sports car. I enjoy my M5 a lot although it is somewhat jerky now, but nothing beats the driving experience . The E55 has a lot of creature comforts, a lot more than the current M5 as well as the next generation I am sure. It's a lot easier to throw in a supercharger to get more power, but it takes a lot more time to develop a natraully aspirated engine w/ more power. I guess for some its just easier to take the easy road out? I can't elaborate much more on this tonight, im tired..

    Re: Beastly comparisons

    I agree w/ you that the E55 is no sports car. I enjoy my M5 a lot although it is somewhat jerky now, but nothing beats the driving experience . The E55 has a lot of creature comforts, a lot more than the current M5 as well as the next generation I am sure. It's a lot easier to throw in a supercharger to get more power, but it takes a lot more time to develop a natraully aspirated engine w/ more power. I guess for some its just easier to take the easy road out? I can't elaborate much more on this tonight, im tired..

    Re: Beastly comparisons

    in the final analysis, there are many great driving machines out there for the plucking and this includes a number of sedans. I have made my choice with the E55 (as I love my E500 and lust only for more power and better seats). It's not a race car (I've got a wife and 2 kids and a Suburban with dvd and vcr, etc. for long family drives) but it will put a smile on my face and make my heart race every once in a while, and that my friend is priceless!! Enjoy what you drive - life is short!!

    Re: Beastly comparisons

    in the final analysis, there are many great driving machines out there for the plucking and this includes a number of sedans. I have made my choice with the E55 (as I love my E500 and lust only for more power and better seats). It's not a race car (I've got a wife and 2 kids and a Suburban with dvd and vcr, etc. for long family drives) but it will put a smile on my face and make my heart race every once in a while, and that my friend is priceless!! Enjoy what you drive - life is short!!

    Re: Beastly comparisons

    Something that all MB owners agree with...

    "Life is too short and the road is too long to drive anything less than a Mercedes-Benz"

    Re: Beastly comparisons

    Something that all MB owners agree with...

    "Life is too short and the road is too long to drive anything less than a Mercedes-Benz"

    Re: Beastly comparisons

    Why is it that people think that MB just "slapped" the supercharger on the engine? Anyone can just slap a supercharger on the engine, but for it to be reliable for the life of the car, that is an engineering feat! AMG did many many things to make sure the engine will survive. Its hand built for crying out loud.

    Re: Beastly comparisons

    Why is it that people think that MB just "slapped" the supercharger on the engine? Anyone can just slap a supercharger on the engine, but for it to be reliable for the life of the car, that is an engineering feat! AMG did many many things to make sure the engine will survive. Its hand built for crying out loud.

    Re: Beastly comparisons

    Exactly.

    Re: Beastly comparisons

    Exactly.

    Re: Beastly comparisons

    Quote:
    Why is it that people think that MB just "slapped" the supercharger on the engine? Anyone can just slap a supercharger on the engine, but for it to be reliable for the life of the car, that is an engineering feat! AMG did many many things to make sure the engine will survive. Its hand built for crying out loud.



    Probably because most people don't know Mercedes history. They built a supercharged Mercedes BEFORE World War 2. I also remember that I let a friend from the UK drive my car on a visit and he thought this is a normally aspirated V8 because of the missing "turbo lag" and the spontaneous power outbreak. I love the E55 engine, this is actually the best part on the car...and maybe the Speedshift auto tranny. If AMG would only learn how to adapt the suspension right, this would be a perfect sports limousine.

    Re: Beastly comparisons

    Quote:
    Why is it that people think that MB just "slapped" the supercharger on the engine? Anyone can just slap a supercharger on the engine, but for it to be reliable for the life of the car, that is an engineering feat! AMG did many many things to make sure the engine will survive. Its hand built for crying out loud.



    Probably because most people don't know Mercedes history. They built a supercharged Mercedes BEFORE World War 2. I also remember that I let a friend from the UK drive my car on a visit and he thought this is a normally aspirated V8 because of the missing "turbo lag" and the spontaneous power outbreak. I love the E55 engine, this is actually the best part on the car...and maybe the Speedshift auto tranny. If AMG would only learn how to adapt the suspension right, this would be a perfect sports limousine.

    Re: Beastly comparisons

    I think, think... that Mercedes invented the supercharged engine back in 1921.

    If turbo lag is a problem, then why didn't AMG supercharge the '65 V12 after making it 6.0L.?

    Re: Beastly comparisons

    I think, think... that Mercedes invented the supercharged engine back in 1921.

    If turbo lag is a problem, then why didn't AMG supercharge the '65 V12 after making it 6.0L.?

    Re: Beastly comparisons

    Quote:
    I think, think... that Mercedes invented the supercharged engine back in 1921.

    If turbo lag is a problem, then why didn't AMG supercharge the '65 V12 after making it 6.0L.?



    Most people driving a SL600 won't notice a turbo lag.
    But it is a good question. One reason might be cost. It seems that DC wants to get away from the supercharger in favor of the turbo charger. Don't ask me why, I don't know.
    Actually it doesn't really make sense to offer a SL55 AMG and a SL600 with two different engines. The suspension can be easily adapted to each model, the exhaust tone shouldn't be a problem either (more aggressive on the AMG and less noisy on the SL600). After Mr. Bruhnke left AMG, I actually don't know in which direction AMG is going to go. It will be very interesting to see the developments over the next two years.
    One thing is for sure: the SL facelift by around 2005 will say a lot about AMG's future (engine, sportiness, looks, etc.). And even the rumored upcoming CLS 55 AMG might be a good indicator for what's coming from AMG in the future. I doubt they'll use the same engine as they use now in the E55, SL55, etc. because this engine is rumored to be replaced by 2005.

    Re: Beastly comparisons

    Quote:
    I think, think... that Mercedes invented the supercharged engine back in 1921.

    If turbo lag is a problem, then why didn't AMG supercharge the '65 V12 after making it 6.0L.?



    Most people driving a SL600 won't notice a turbo lag.
    But it is a good question. One reason might be cost. It seems that DC wants to get away from the supercharger in favor of the turbo charger. Don't ask me why, I don't know.
    Actually it doesn't really make sense to offer a SL55 AMG and a SL600 with two different engines. The suspension can be easily adapted to each model, the exhaust tone shouldn't be a problem either (more aggressive on the AMG and less noisy on the SL600). After Mr. Bruhnke left AMG, I actually don't know in which direction AMG is going to go. It will be very interesting to see the developments over the next two years.
    One thing is for sure: the SL facelift by around 2005 will say a lot about AMG's future (engine, sportiness, looks, etc.). And even the rumored upcoming CLS 55 AMG might be a good indicator for what's coming from AMG in the future. I doubt they'll use the same engine as they use now in the E55, SL55, etc. because this engine is rumored to be replaced by 2005.

    Re: Beastly comparisons

    i'm no engineer but as far as my knowledge goes, the main problem with supercharging is that some engine power actually goes into driving the supercharger! so a siginificant amount of e.g. the SL55-V8's 500 HP never reaches the wheels of the car because the power is needed to drive the supercharger.

    a turbocharger is driven by the exhaust gasses expelled by the engine!

    Re: Beastly comparisons

    i'm no engineer but as far as my knowledge goes, the main problem with supercharging is that some engine power actually goes into driving the supercharger! so a siginificant amount of e.g. the SL55-V8's 500 HP never reaches the wheels of the car because the power is needed to drive the supercharger.

    a turbocharger is driven by the exhaust gasses expelled by the engine!

    Re: Beastly comparisons

    True.
    Supercharger problem: Needs power from engine to work, hence, poor engine output at low rev. But power delivery constant.
    Turbo problem: The lag. Solution: Twinturbo.
    I remeber tallking with a mechanical engineer about this and he actually told me how many HP go to the wheels of the SL55.
    I'll chase that up but you're right Zz, it is not 500.
    Fanch.

    Re: Beastly comparisons

    True.
    Supercharger problem: Needs power from engine to work, hence, poor engine output at low rev. But power delivery constant.
    Turbo problem: The lag. Solution: Twinturbo.
    I remeber tallking with a mechanical engineer about this and he actually told me how many HP go to the wheels of the SL55.
    I'll chase that up but you're right Zz, it is not 500.
    Fanch.

    Re: Beastly comparisons

    Of course, there is power loss, in the transmission as well, I bet that only 390-400Hp is going to the rear wheels. The V8K also drinks a lot of fuel, but it sounds 10 times better than any other MB engine, especially on the SL55.

    I just hope that when i get a chance to afford these cars, I won't be limited to buying a 1.0L diesel SL with 10bhp, and a top speed of 35mph!

    I want more power!!!

    BTW , The bentley continental GT does 0-150mph in 28.3 seconds, while the E55 in about 22-23, the SL600 about 21 and the CL65, in 19.7, to beat it you need to drive like Schumacher in a Murcie

    Re: Beastly comparisons

    Of course, there is power loss, in the transmission as well, I bet that only 390-400Hp is going to the rear wheels. The V8K also drinks a lot of fuel, but it sounds 10 times better than any other MB engine, especially on the SL55.

    I just hope that when i get a chance to afford these cars, I won't be limited to buying a 1.0L diesel SL with 10bhp, and a top speed of 35mph!

    I want more power!!!

    BTW , The bentley continental GT does 0-150mph in 28.3 seconds, while the E55 in about 22-23, the SL600 about 21 and the CL65, in 19.7, to beat it you need to drive like Schumacher in a Murcie

    Bench testing vs. dyno testing

    zzboba,

    The power loss from the engine to the wheels is because of the drivetrain and not the supercharger, and the figures are similar to what Bilal suggested. At the crank, the engine is producing the power figures that we expect. It is true that the kompressor is parasitic, but this is not figured into a manufacturers HP/torque ratings.

    Just ask RC about his E55k and his wife's SLK32k.

    Bench testing vs. dyno testing

    zzboba,

    The power loss from the engine to the wheels is because of the drivetrain and not the supercharger, and the figures are similar to what Bilal suggested. At the crank, the engine is producing the power figures that we expect. It is true that the kompressor is parasitic, but this is not figured into a manufacturers HP/torque ratings.

    Just ask RC about his E55k and his wife's SLK32k.

     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 1/2/22 1:35 AM
    Leawood911
     
     
     
     
     
    517613 1294
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020) 1/22/22 9:42 PM
    Enmanuel
    187631 1158
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 1/9/22 7:08 PM
    Wonderbar
    75844 401
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 1/22/22 12:34 AM
    watt
    74210 761
    Porsche Sticky Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review 1/3/22 7:55 AM
    Rossi
    56621 531
    Porsche Sticky ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera 4S 3/3/21 10:57 PM
    Wonderbar
    50790 336
    Porsche Sticky Porsche extends the Taycan model range (Taycan 2WD) 2/1/21 12:42 PM
    Leawood911
    14139 29
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021) 1/15/22 10:41 PM
    watt
    1252 1
    Porsche Cayman GT4 10/5/21 7:04 PM
    Topspeed
    478056 3587
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 9/28/21 3:25 AM
    WhoopsyM
    393679 3507
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 11/25/21 12:31 AM
    WhoopsyM
    388917 3949
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 11/17/21 5:18 PM
    Rossi
    354538 3256
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 10/8/21 11:41 AM
    xpto
    325698 2647
    Porsche 992 GT3 1/22/22 6:48 PM
    Wonderbar
    297138 3320
    Porsche OFFICIAL: The new Porsche 992 – a design icon and high-tech sports car 9/29/21 1:59 AM
    watt
    257830 1587
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016) 2/11/21 9:22 AM
    Itsme
    170332 1379
    Lambo Lamborghini Huracan and variants 4/9/21 4:32 PM
    Topspeed
    121771 1225
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 9/22/21 1:28 AM
    Leawood911
    106075 749
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 12/22/21 7:10 PM
    Topspeed
    98045 1246
    McLaren F1 7/10/21 7:43 AM
    BiTurbo
    84028 209
    AMG AMG GT R 1/12/22 6:30 PM
    CGX car nut
    77065 828
    Lambo Aventador and SV 1/14/22 2:22 AM
    BiTurbo
    76788 699
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 1/21/22 3:48 PM
    WhoopsyM
    57810 1436
    Others Bugatti Chiron 1/13/22 11:07 PM
    kudryavchik
    45606 507
    Motor Sp. [2021] Formula 1 1/8/22 5:39 PM
    kudryavchik
    44073 1574
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 12/15/21 8:04 PM
    Topspeed
    42759 533
    Porsche GT4RS 1/23/22 1:51 PM
    GnilM
    42424 740
    BMW M BMW M2 Rumors 7/7/21 8:38 PM
    Jim_in_Iowa
    31963 394
    Ferrari 488 Replacement 4/17/21 8:28 PM
    Rossi
    28597 370
    Lambo Urus (SUV) 7/21/21 6:22 PM
    Topspeed
    27846 592
    247 items found, displaying 1 to 30.