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    Panamera Turbo Powerkit & Turbo S...no more different turbo chargers?

    I have been told by one of our sources that the Panamera Turbo Powerkit and Turbo S do not have different turbo chargers anymore compared to the regular Turbo model. They share now the same turbo charger (which btw. is the Turbo "standard" turbo charger). Apparently the only technical difference is now the software, which is kind of weird considering the price difference. Possible reason: It was too expensive to build a small series of turbo chargers for a specific model only, which is sold in limited numbers.

    The downside of this technical "adjustment"? I don't have a clue. Smiley

    Btw: This is valid for the Cayenne Turbo Powerkit and Turbo S as well.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X3 35d, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Panamera Turbo Powerkit & Turbo S...no more different turbo chargers?

    So if say you had a PT with the power kit then a software tinkering could get you PTS performance? 


    Re: Panamera Turbo Powerkit & Turbo S...no more different turbo chargers?

    Enmanuel:

    So if say you had a PT with the power kit then a software tinkering could get you PTS performance? 

    Theoretically yes but not really worth it for only 10 hp difference.

    Not sure if you understood the post I made: Up to now, Porsche used those well known "titanium" turbo chargers for the Turbo Powerkit and "S" models and after the reliability debacle, they switched to modified turbo chargers. Now it seems they are using the standard turbo charger from the regular Turbo models for Powerkit and "S" models. Meaning: There is only a software difference now, no hardware difference. If the information is correct.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X3 35d, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Panamera Turbo Powerkit & Turbo S...no more different turbo chargers?

    sounds to me like they solved the reliability issues in a way without the need for the titanium turbochargers.


    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: Panamera Turbo Powerkit & Turbo S...no more different turbo chargers?

    RC:
    Enmanuel:

    So if say you had a PT with the power kit then a software tinkering could get you PTS performance? 

    Theoretically yes but not really worth it for only 10 hp difference.

    Not sure if you understood the post I made: Up to now, Porsche used those well known "titanium" turbo chargers for the Turbo Powerkit and "S" models and after the reliability debacle, they switched to modified turbo chargers. Now it seems they are using the standard turbo charger from the regular Turbo models for Powerkit and "S" models. Meaning: There is only a software difference now, no hardware difference. If the information is correct.

    Yeah i got that. I don't know about what you think but I find this should drive the price of the PTS down. and in turn could damage sales if the PT with powerkit is cheaper. I don't remember the numbers exactly. 


    Re: Panamera Turbo Powerkit & Turbo S...no more different turbo chargers?

    RC:

    I have been told by one of our sources that the Panamera Turbo Powerkit and Turbo S do not have different turbo chargers anymore compared to the regular Turbo model. They share now the same turbo charger (which btw. is the Turbo "standard" turbo charger). Apparently the only technical difference is now the software, which is kind of weird considering the price difference. Possible reason: It was too expensive to build a small series of turbo chargers for a specific model only, which is sold in limited numbers.

    The downside of this technical "adjustment"? I don't have a clue. Smiley

    Btw: This is valid for the Cayenne Turbo Powerkit and Turbo S as well.

    Perhaps, other things might be different like intercoolers or components that relate to heat dissipation?


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Panamera Turbo Powerkit & Turbo S...no more different turbo chargers?

    And what about the "faster reaction time" of the titanium turbocharges?


    Re: Panamera Turbo Powerkit & Turbo S...no more different turbo chargers?

    reginos:
    RC:

    I have been told by one of our sources that the Panamera Turbo Powerkit and Turbo S do not have different turbo chargers anymore compared to the regular Turbo model. They share now the same turbo charger (which btw. is the Turbo "standard" turbo charger). Apparently the only technical difference is now the software, which is kind of weird considering the price difference. Possible reason: It was too expensive to build a small series of turbo chargers for a specific model only, which is sold in limited numbers.

    The downside of this technical "adjustment"? I don't have a clue. Smiley

    Btw: This is valid for the Cayenne Turbo Powerkit and Turbo S as well.

    Perhaps, other things might be different like intercoolers or components that relate to heat dissipation?

    Nope. According to the information I got, everything is the same as on the standard Turbo model. Maybe they did some extensive testing and realized that the standard turbo chargers are OK too.

    The software has been adapted of course but I don't know, 15k EUR more for a software update and some other minor "optical" tweaks? Not quite OK for me.

    I shouldn't complaint though, my car runs like hell but I also have different turbo chargers. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X3 35d, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Panamera Turbo Powerkit & Turbo S...no more different turbo chargers?

    If the facelifted Turbo S were to be bumped to 580 HP would that still be done via the same turbos as the Turbo?


    Re: Panamera Turbo Powerkit & Turbo S...no more different turbo chargers?

    Apparently, the cat has been let out of the bag here. It's fairly well known that a number of well known tuners such as FVD and GIAC are able to exceed PTS power levels on the standard Turbo. I've seen standard turbo cars with these mods dyno'd
    at approx 600hp and more with exhaust/intake mods. This is backed up with acceleration times that well exceed PTS published times. These were with US cars so I'm not sure about autobahn performance but there are now many cars with this mod with significant miles on them-including mine. I have had no negative side effects nor have heard of any with respectable tuners. It makes sense that Porsche is making PTS power levels with the standard Turbos and just ECU tuning. We learned the same effect with 996TT's. If you can livevwithout the S badge, the standard Turbo can be a great deal.

    Re: Panamera Turbo Powerkit & Turbo S...no more different turbo chargers?

    So far, I haven't seen a single tuned Panamera Turbo or Turbo S to hit 0-200 kph under 11.7 seconds. 

    Same goes to "effective" Cayenne Turbo tuning btw., most tuned versions are actually slower than the OEM car. 

    A comparison with the 996 Turbo is not possible for various reasons.

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Panamera Turbo Powerkit & Turbo S...no more different turbo chargers?

    keithos27:

    If the facelifted Turbo S were to be bumped to 580 HP would that still be done via the same turbos as the Turbo?

    I don't have a clue what engine mods Porsche will apply to the facelift, so everything is possible. 

    It is also not sure that a Turbo S facelift will be available since the next Panamera generation is rumored for a 2015 presentation.

    Always keep in mind that Porsche is very anal about warranty issues and if you mod your car and they find out, you're toast. To my knowledge, official Porsche dealers are actually obliged to "blacklist" modified cars for possible warranty claims later on. You never know... 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Panamera Turbo Powerkit & Turbo S...no more different turbo chargers?

    I don't know of 0-200kph but here is an example of a PT with an ECU flash with some very good times. I believe the 1/4 mile time and terminal speed are roughly equivalent to 0-200kph and well under 11.7seconds. I have not seen or heard of stock PTS better these times.
    http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=I0cUsQryyzM

    Re: Panamera Turbo Powerkit & Turbo S...no more different turbo chargers?

    NelsonF:
    I don't know of 0-200kph but here is an example of a PT with an ECU flash with some very good times. I believe the 1/4 mile time and terminal speed are roughly equivalent to 0-200kph and well under 11.7seconds. I have not seen or heard of stock PTS better these times.
    http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=I0cUsQryyzM

    German car magazines tested various tuned Panamera Turbo and none of them did very well. 

    Of course tuners can always push their kits to the limit, especially to impress the press but in the end, I don't think these kits are reliable and/or that good. For 1/4 mile runs maybe OK but a couple of minutes on the Autobahn at Vmax and the engine is toast. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Panamera Turbo Powerkit & Turbo S...no more different turbo chargers?

    I remember when it was said that 500hp was the practical limit on the 996TT. There are now quite a few higher milage cars running around these days with 700hp or more (I drove mine for 40k miles without issue). Granted a higher maintenance schedule is necessary and no extended high speed runs are typical in the U.S.-but I'm sure this could be mitigated if addressed properly. Yes, there are a variety of tuning levels available and some take it to extremes-typically with the expected results. My personnal PT has a lower level tune as I value reliabilty but 600hp is fine for me. This is a practical limit as I understand that PDK trans are limited in tq handling capability and cant handle the additional power in it's current state. So far, after 10k miles, it's been perfect without issues. I'm enjoying this car more than expected.Smiley


    Re: Panamera Turbo Powerkit & Turbo S...no more different turbo chargers?

    RC - you are a Porsche purist to the max ( dont get me started on N-rated Michelins for the 991 ) - You must be able to self justify your purchases.  We understand and take your comments with a grain of salt since we understand your perspective and need to re-assure yourself.  Rather than review as much information as possible you 'trust' the small subset of information which reinforces your beliefs and ignore, ridicule and label as incorrect any information which does not.  Very human and in some ways fun to watch!  Some feel the same way about politics and in specific our president.  The bigger the investment the more likely you are to turn a blind eye to the truth.  As long as you see it... we certainly do, and are amused.

    Keep in mind - you started this column which exposes exactly what you claim 'tuners' can't do as what Porsche is doing.  Makes it hard to have your cake and eat it too.Smiley

    cheers

     

     


    Re: Panamera Turbo Powerkit & Turbo S...no more different turbo chargers?

    It's his site and he is certainly entitled to his opinion. It's always up us to determine what we believe.Smiley


    Re: Panamera Turbo Powerkit & Turbo S...no more different turbo chargers?

    Leawood911:

    RC - you are a Porsche purist to the max ( dont get me started on N-rated Michelins for the 991 ) - You must be able to self justify your purchases.  We understand and take your comments with a grain of salt since we understand your perspective and need to re-assure yourself.  Rather than review as much information as possible you 'trust' the small subset of information which reinforces your beliefs and ignore, ridicule and label as incorrect any information which does not.  Very human and in some ways fun to watch!  Some feel the same way about politics and in specific our president.  The bigger the investment the more likely you are to turn a blind eye to the truth.  As long as you see it... we certainly do, and are amused.

    Keep in mind - you started this column which exposes exactly what you claim 'tuners' can't do as what Porsche is doing.  Makes it hard to have your cake and eat it too.Smiley

    cheers

     

     

    You seem to ignore the complexity of the engine/gearbox/traction system mapping software and the connectivity to the PDK/PTM system but how can I take someone serious who drives all-season tires on a sports car like the 911?!  Smiley

    What do I know about tuning, I just had two tuned Porsche (996 Turbo RS Tuning and 997 Turbo RUF 550) and was fully involved in the development and tuning process. Well... Smiley How about your "tuning experience"? (no, all-season tires are not considered tuning, boob jobs don't qualify either).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Panamera Turbo Powerkit & Turbo S...no more different turbo chargers?

    NelsonF:

    It's his site and he is certainly entitled to his opinion. It's always up us to determine what we believe.Smiley

    No, this isn't my site but yes, I am qualified to my opinion and experience over the past 14 years with Porsche cars, tuned or not. I always love to learn but I need proof. Like I said before, so far, I haven't seen a single review where a tuned Panamera Turbo was substantially faster from 0-200 kph than the stock Turbo S. The 0-200 kph speed range is the most significant speed range for most countries, I do not deny that some of the tuned Panamera Turbo may be faster to 0-300 kph. 

    With the 996 Turbo and even the 997 Turbo, things look different. Engine, gearbox and PTM/PSM setup software complexity was different, just ask around how many difficulties serious tuners had at first with the Tiptronic or even the PDK on the first and second versions of the 997 Turbo. Just a simple example...

    Yes, you can believe what you want but the same applies to me. Smiley

    Btw: There are seems to be some cultural misunderstandings here, especially when we talk about tuning. For me, a good tuning is the one which doesn't let my engine explode after a couple of minutes at Vmax. For US drivers, a good tuning is the one which allows them to achieve a good 1/4 mile time. You get my point...different worlds. Smiley

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Panamera Turbo Powerkit & Turbo S...no more different turbo chargers?

    Not all U.S. drivers are only interested in 1/4 mile times or extreme but ultimately questionable tuner packages. Yes, some have different requirements for thier cars and prefer a more balanced approach and do not want to take their cars to extreme limits. Obvoiusly U.S. driving conditions are a bit different than Germany and tuners here correspond by providing products that fit their market-which is quite broad in terms of requirements and expectations. Still, there are some very good and serious tuners in the U.S. with great experience with the various Porsche platforms. I've had good and bad experiences with Porsche tuners to date after 20years and it seems that you have as well. This knowledge should serve us well with our future vehicle decisions. It's pointless to continue arguing right and wrong on this topic as there are different perspectives involved and we can go on and on validating our points of view. This does not mean that I don't value your perspective. We can always learn more.Smiley


    Re: Panamera Turbo Powerkit & Turbo S...no more different turbo chargers?

    rc - I was going to reply citing my software development experience and years of 911 ownership which far exceeds yours but then I realized - Big Tits trumps. Sorry

     

     


    Re: Panamera Turbo Powerkit & Turbo S...no more different turbo chargers?

    Leawood911:

    rc - I was going to reply citing my software development experience and years of 911 ownership which far exceeds yours but then I realized - Big Tits trumps. Sorry

     

     

    Always. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


     
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