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    WOW, recent test of 997S!

    Just got my Road and Track Magazine and they have a sports car shoot out to see which was the "best" overall sports car.

    997S came in third behind the Boxster and first place Corvette. Again price being the determining factor.

    But get this, 0-60 for the 997S was 3.9 seconds! They even doubted their results and took it to an independent dyno and it came out to stock specs!

    Can't wait to get mine!

    Re: WOW, recent test of 997S!

    Road and Track and Car and Driver magazines are the equivalent Consumer Guides and The Farmers Almanac weather predictions. They don't have a clue. I'll take the 997s 24/7.

    Re: WOW, recent test of 997S!

    Why do you say that? Because you don't agree with them? I think they are two of the best auto magazines in the US.

    Re: WOW, recent test of 997S!

    It's just a personal opinion. Serious sports car magazines should highlite the outstanding qualites of the elite, regardless of price. If you like it and can afford it, you're going to buy it.Again, just an opinion, but the same people who test drive minivans and compacts are going to have a hard time justifying to John Q Public the virtues af driving world class cars at heavenly prices.

    Re: WOW, recent test of 997S!

    Quote:
    Texas911 said:
    Just got my Road and Track Magazine and they have a sports car shoot out to see which was the "best" overall sports car.

    997S came in third behind the Boxster and first place Corvette. Again price being the determining factor.

    But get this, 0-60 for the 997S was 3.9 seconds! They even doubted their results and took it to an independent dyno and it came out to stock specs!

    Can't wait to get mine!



    Hey, Texas911 any chance of a scan of the test Please

    Re: WOW, recent test of 997S!

    Quote:
    nicholas j said:
    It's just a personal opinion. Serious sports car magazines should highlite the outstanding qualites of the elite, regardless of price. If you like it and can afford it, you're going to buy it.Again, just an opinion, but the same people who test drive minivans and compacts are going to have a hard time justifying to John Q Public the virtues af driving world class cars at heavenly prices.



    They did. They said the 997S is "the best sports car in the world under $100,000." But they do factor in price in their ratings, for a number of reasons I'm sure, including the fact the average reader to whom this magazine caters can't afford a 997S! And maybe a little advertiser pressure from Detroit also, who knows. But they clearly state their methodology so you can't fault them although of course most of the criteria are subjective and somewhat arbitary.

    BTW, they rated the Boxter S #2 after the Vette and said of it: 'In fact many of us felt that the Boxter S displayed sharper responses than the 911 Carrera S. The stylish roadster was fastest through the slalom, posting a record time of 73.9mph - yes it ousted the Ferrari Enzo!" (997S outbraked it and everything else from 80mph.)

    But hey: 0-60 in 3.9 sec. Wow! Maybe I should finally try that silly stopwatch on my dashboard!

    Re: WOW, recent test of 997S!

    Quote:
    med said:
    Quote:
    Texas911 said:
    Just got my Road and Track Magazine and they have a sports car shoot out to see which was the "best" overall sports car.

    997S came in third behind the Boxster and first place Corvette. Again price being the determining factor.

    But get this, 0-60 for the 997S was 3.9 seconds! They even doubted their results and took it to an independent dyno and it came out to stock specs!

    Can't wait to get mine!



    Hey, Texas911 any chance of a scan of the test Please



    Yea, i would appricate it, i really need to read that article!!!!!

    Re: WOW, recent test of 997S!

    Well said! "Subjective and somewhat arbitrary" are the words I should have used. Thanks for looking over my shoulder. I've got about 10-12 weeks to go before delivery, so I'll keep my comments to myself until then.
    Let us know about the 3.9 times.

    Re: WOW, recent test of 997S!

    Quote:
    nicholas j said:
    Well said! "Subjective and somewhat arbitrary" are the words I should have used. Thanks for looking over my shoulder. I've got about 10-12 weeks to go before delivery, so I'll keep my comments to myself until then.
    Let us know about the 3.9 times.



    Nicholas J.

    I've leased the car for three years so I don't think I'll be posting any clutch threatening 3.9 sec 0-60 times. I probably don't even have the skill.

    BTW, with 10-12 weeks to go, at least you won't have to deal with the snow tire issue until next year when hopefully they will be readily available.

    Enjoy!

    "I think they are two of the best auto magazines in the US"

    That's not saying very much.

    While I don't disagree with what they say (not hard as they try not to offend anyone), the journalism is pretty crappy, brown nosey, and non critical.

    If you want good car journalism look elswhere. Both "Car" and "Evo" have good journalism, great photography and are feerless when it comes to advertisers. Look there for a more objective viewpoint.

    Re: "I think they are two of the best auto magazines in the US"

    First you complain that they pander to "people" who can't afford high dollar cars, then you say they are subjective and arbritrary?

    In the article they ran the cars on the track and they took the COLD HARD performance numbers to deduce HALF of the scoring. How is that subjective and arbritrary?

    You want subjective? How many posts have I read on this very board about the subjectives on the 997?

    Re: WOW, recent test of 997S!

    I'm always happy to see great reviews of my favorite car but am never surprised at the final results. Sometimes a fatal flaw will bring a good car down a notch or two (idrive, Bangle design, etc) but I always look at the ratings that affect me the most. Also, in the final tally, subjective ratings often sway the final number. For obvious reasons, if you can afford the Porsche, the Corvette may not appeal to you despite similar performance at less cost. I understand that car mags are in the business to make $$$. Their subscription dollars barely pay for distribution costs- they get their money from advertisers. If Motor Trend names the Tacoma the truck of the year, Toyota uses the Motor Trend name all over the place and they both benefit. Of course, the vehicle has to be pretty much as represented. What I get tired of is all the glamorous positive praise for every car they test. They try to appeal to everyone and extend their reader and adverstising base to extremes. If anyone bothered to read them, there were glowing reports of the revolutionary Pontiac Asstek. I find the most objective automotive journalist are from Europe, especially England. The Brits seem to call it like it is (what, no ad. pressure?). But it is hard to argue with 3.9 sec. I like my 997S whatever anyone says about it.

    Re: WOW, recent test of 997S!

    Quote:
    kkeating said:
    I'm always happy to see great reviews of my favorite car but am never surprised at the final results. Sometimes a fatal flaw will bring a good car down a notch or two (idrive, Bangle design, etc) but I always look at the ratings that affect me the most. Also, in the final tally, subjective ratings often sway the final number. For obvious reasons, if you can afford the Porsche, the Corvette may not appeal to you despite similar performance at less cost. I understand that car mags are in the business to make $$$. Their subscription dollars barely pay for distribution costs- they get their money from advertisers. If Motor Trend names the Tacoma the truck of the year, Toyota uses the Motor Trend name all over the place and they both benefit. Of course, the vehicle has to be pretty much as represented. What I get tired of is all the glamorous positive praise for every car they test. They try to appeal to everyone and extend their reader and adverstising base to extremes. If anyone bothered to read them, there were glowing reports of the revolutionary Pontiac Asstek. I find the most objective automotive journalist are from Europe, especially England. The Brits seem to call it like it is (what, no ad. pressure?). But it is hard to argue with 3.9 sec. I like my 997S whatever anyone says about it.



    I'm with you on that.
    I wont comment directly on the R&T test since I havent read it (evil tongues will tell you that lack of fact hasn't stopped me from commenting on most other things..hehe) but I think this is a cultural thing mostly.
    I havent seen the list of the journalists'choice, but judging from the readers'choice award on their homepage - where 6 out of the reader's top 10 cars are american - I'd say it's a matter of tradition, culture and patriotism. Should the journalists be above that? Absolutely...in an ideal world, but they are not. Just as Jeremy Clarkson often picks a British car as testwinner, when even a 3-year old can see it's not the objectively better car.

    I used to work a bit with the guys making the best-selling Danish car magazine, and they had a policy of NEVER letting ad budgets affect their preferences when testing. They felt they would lose both readers and clients if they did. And I believe they are right.
    They once ran a frontpage with a picture of the new Ford Scorpio (Taurus in US)..back in the ninties when Ford launched that butt-ugly new version...remember that? The headline read "What went wrong?"-
    They nearly lost the Ford budget on that, but in the end Ford stayed because they knew they could count on integrity and honest reviews.

    I dunno any Asian, African or Southamerican car magazines, but Im pretty sure they would be biased too in a different direction.

    Please post a scan of the test, so we can commetn on it, thanks

    Re: WOW, recent test of 997S!

    The British publications EVO and Car Magazine, IMHO are the best forms of auto journalism out there. Ive lived in quite a few countries, and the Brit car magazines are sold the world over whereas the US ones (e.g. Car & Driver etc) are rarely seen outside their home shores. This says a lot about the quality of said publications.

    I have always found Car & Driver to be too lightweight, and tries to cater to a wide market/demographic. Bought it for a while, but now buy the Brit magazines instead. They focus on performance vehicles, where the drivers perspective is weighs far more than "relative" cost and the like for the most part. Take the Viper for example - it has never come anywhere in European magazine tests given it handles like a pig on a pogo stick, corners like a supertanker and is only good for 0-60 times on smooth flat pavement. Enough said.

    I'll take the 3.9 to 60 for "S" though - mine has 500 miles on it and is impressing more and more, especially in the twisty stuff north of San Francisco on the pacific coast highway.

    Huh???

    You need to re-read my post.

    "First you complain that they pander to "people" who can't afford high dollar cars, then you say they are subjective and arbritrary?"

    Never mentioned it. What brand are you smoking btw?

    "In the article they ran the cars on the track and they took the COLD HARD performance numbers to deduce HALF of the scoring. How is that subjective and arbritrary?"

    Why is it "half" when it's a performance car you are contemplating driving? If you want a Lexus maybe the scoring works. Sounds arbitary to me.

    "You want subjective? How many posts have I read on this very board about the subjectives on the 997?"

    We're talking about journalism not born again Porschefiles. Journo's should be objective, remember Woodward and Bernstein?

    What are you afraid of? That you bought the wrong car?

    Re: Huh???

    Le Chef, if you go by pure numbers, NO ONE would buy Porsches. Duh. Again, just because you don't agree with something doesn't mean its worthless. Take you Porsche blinders off.

    BTW, go to the sports car forum, where someone posted test results on the new M5. Based on your narrow minded criteria, we should all trade our 997s in for an M5 because it actually has better performance numbers.

    Re: Huh???

    Take it easy guys!
    I personally think that EVO is best, recently better then CAR IMHO.
    Top Gear used to be good but not anymore I think, too many adds, etc.
    You could accuse EVO of being pro Porsche but even them admit it, they have yet to find a better "complete" sports car.
    In their latest issue BTW, they compare the 997S to the C6 and even though, the C6 has come a long way, the 997S still has the edge in terms of dynamics.
    I also like Autocar very much, much more maintream but excellent Journalists such as Robbo, C. Harris, etc.
    0 to 60 in 3.9 secs!!!
    That is great! But quite surprising I must admit.

    You missed my point

    I'm not disagreeing with you on car criteria, I was disagreeing with your view on C&D and R&T which are crappy magazines with the exception of Peter Egan. You should try "Car" and "Evo" which offer something stronger than vanilla.

    I didn't buy my C4S because it was faster, nor will I be buying a 997S or a 993TT because it's faster. If I wanted faster I would buy a Z06 or just spend gazillions on a Mitsubi Evo WRX IX and get it to produce 750 hp.

    Re: Huh???

    0-60 in 3.9 secs?

    If I'm not mistaken, the factory time is 4.8 secs (0-100 km/h)...and even tho I truely hope the time is real and correct, I find it strange that the car is as fast as the CGT. (Unless the magazine would time the CGT to 0-60 in 2.9 secs??)

    I believe they either
    a) didnt calibrate their equipment perfectly
    b) tested with one man in the car and strong tailwind or similar.

    Had it been a 0.1-0.2 sec improvement I would have said "ok, maybe", but I dont believe that Porsche has a full second margin on the 0-60 (0-100km/h) time on any of their cars.
    Besides, on the weight to BHP ratio, if this were true, the 997 would be the fastest car on the planet.
    The "old" Ferrari 360 has 400 bhp (weighing only 1390kg compared to the 997S' 1495kg) and a 0-100 time of 4.5 secs.

    However much I'd love to believe the numbers, I still think they are incorrect.

    Re: Huh???

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    ...You could accuse EVO of being pro Porsche but even them admit it, they have yet to find a better "complete" sports car. ...



    Road and Track used to be very pro-Porsche. As a small kid when I discovered a nieghbor's new 1968 911 Targa, I learned about Porsche through the pages of Road and Track in the early 70s. Some of the reports are forever etched in my brain that I can probably repeat to you the headlines from the reports.

    Re: Huh???

    I agree Doc, 3.9 secs is really excessive.
    the 4.8 secs stated by Porsche is from 0 to 100 kmh.
    Their numbers are known to be on the conservative side.
    Autocar (who I think are very professional) tested the S from 0 to 60 mph in 4.6 secs. Sounds fair to me and an excellent result.
    But 3.9 secs! As fast as a CGT indeed

    Re: Huh???

    4.8 seconds is the 0-60 on a STANDARD Carrera, the factory lists the 997 S at 4.6. I read a recent shootout in Motor Trend (I think) where they ran a 4.2 second 0-60. A 997 S Equipped with PCCB, Sport Chrono and an anorexic driver just might run 3.9...

    Re: Huh???

    Quote:
    timpalms said:
    4.8 seconds is the 0-60 on a STANDARD Carrera, the factory lists the 997 S at 4.6. I read a recent shootout in Motor Trend (I think) where they ran a 4.2 second 0-60. A 997 S Equipped with PCCB, Sport Chrono and an anorexic driver just might run 3.9...



    I'm no physicist or F1-mechanic, but I'm pretty sure you cannot make ANY standard 997S go from 0-60 mph (the equivalent of 0-96,5 km/h) in appr. 0.7 second less than factory claims (according to the official Porsche web it does 0-100 kmh in 4.8, US site states 0-60 in 4.6 secs).

    Had it been a 0-60 time of a car that normally did it in 9 seconds, then maybe a 0,7 second shave is possible, but making a very fast car in the super sportscar category even faster takes a lot more that a good driver with light bonestructure.
    First of all it takes a LOT of added power or putting the car on a serious diet.
    Then it takes serious traction and a setup commited to and built for expreme accelerations.

    Let's be realistic:
    The CGT does 0-62 mph (=0-100kmh) in 3,9 secs according to the web.
    The CGT weighs 1.455 kg (appr.3207 pounds) and has 612 BHP.
    In addition it is supposedly the 997 technically superior in most areas.

    Now take 997S:
    It weighs 1.495 kg (3295 pounds) - 40 kg more than the CGT.
    It produces 355 BHP - 257 bhp LESS than the CGT.
    And you want it to accelerate as fast as the CGT?
    Sorry, thats just science fiction in my opinion.

    Unless you want to cut 0.7 seconds of the 0-100 time of all Porsches and all their competitors, I think it's a simple mistake in the way they time it.

    I used to work with a guy who had a 620 (yes, six-hundred-and-twenty) bhp Audi A4 3.0 Quattro with turbo anti-lag installed.
    The antilag system basically meant that he had almost all BHP wound up from standing still (unlike normal cars that build up torque and BHP as they run faster). His car has a 0-100 time of 3,4 seconds.
    In theory it shoulkd have been even faster - around 2.5 secs which isnt uncommon for rallycross cars with turbo antilag installed, - but the gearshift simply wasnt fast enough (This car was TOTALLY modified-it wasnt just a souped up A4. Full engine, electronics and suspension make-over)

    My point is this: It takes a LOT of power and a lot of modifications to shave off just 0.5 secs on a 0-100 time when we talk acc. times of 4-5 seconds.

    On the other hand: If any of you guys are able to bring your standard 997S even close to a 0-100 time of 4 secs flat, I'd gladly congratulate you with a bottle of Dom P `52

    Re: Huh???

    Though I also doubt the number one must take into account the difference between 0-60 and 0-62 (which most car manufacturers use).The additional two miles per hour could add additional tenths easily.Thus if measured to 62mph it could be in the 4.3 range which still is awefully fast and I find dubious.

    Re: Huh???

    nberry:

    Porsche's own figures for the 997S:
    0-100 km/h in 4.8 secs
    0-60 mph in 4.6 secs

    So they HAVE taken the difference into account.
    As I understood it, the test in Road & Track was in mph.

    FYI: 100 km/h = 62.5 mph.

    Re: Huh???

    They probably tested it in the fall with cooler weather. When they announced the 997 the intro was during the hot summer months. Could explain it.

    Re: Huh???

    0-60 is a weenie statistic, best used for economy cars and bicycles. It's like having a world-class sprinter run a 5 meter dash :rolleyes: What was the 0-100 and 1/4 mile times???

    I can understand the rankings, price-determinate. You have to understand that if you can AFFORD a 911, of course, that will be your choice. But in the real world, you've got to balance the overall car with the overall value. It's a fair cop, but I'm not going to run down to the Chevy dealer and buy a 'Vette any time soon.

    Re: Huh???

    Quote:
    DrPhil said:

    Now take 997S:
    It weighs 1.495 kg (3295 pounds) - 40 kg more than the CGT.
    It produces 355 BHP - 257 bhp LESS than the CGT.
    And you want it to accelerate as fast as the CGT?
    Sorry, thats just science fiction in my opinion.




    0-60 is a function of gearing and traction more than power and weight, both of which favor the rear-engined 997S.

    Re: Huh???

    Quote:
    MrBonus said:

    0-60 is a function of gearing and traction more than power and weight, both of which favor the rear-engined 997S.



    So the 997 S is af fast as the CGT?
    Excuse me but this is getting more and more absurd

    This reminds me of the tale of the hare and the tortoise.
    Soon someone in here will say the 997S can outrun a Suzuki Hayabusa.

    I respect your diligent admiration of the 997, but please be realistic.

    I wonder why excellent sportscarmakers like Ferrari has not discovered the magic of a rear engine setup.
    According to your theory the 430 would be able to do a 0-60 in what...? one second? - had it not been for the centre engine...
    Hello??

    Re: Huh???

    As I said before, 0-60 times with cars as capable as either the 997S or the Carrera GT is absurd (IMHO), although I realize that most of the magazine-racing public is addicted to that measurement. I always look at 1/4 e.t., and even MORE, the trap speed at the end of the run. That's where the CGT runs away from the 997S like a Greyhound from a Bassethound!! And that's where the men are separated from the boys (apologies for any unintentionally implied sexism). 0-60...please, that's where riced-out Honda Civics roam.

     
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