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    Re: Limited addition 911 Classic launched (250 world wide)

    RC:

    I say this only once and then I shut up: whoever buys this thing should get a serious reality check (or doesn't have a clue about Porsche cars).

    Btw: the powerkit should be available soon, buying a 997 with powerkit for this kind of money is kind of...well...how should I put it...DUMB.


    +1 Smiley
     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Limited addition 911 Classic launched (250 world wide)

    reginos:

    But to be honest the 385 HP Carrera S is more than adequate unless you wish do 280+ km/h all day, every day in Germany. 

     


    Well said. Smiley
     

     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Limited addition 911 Classic launched (250 world wide)

    I like it alot... Except...... The duck-tail is dorky, some things are better left in the past... And what's up with the skunk stripes??? Should I apply "GT-350" stripes on the rockers, and stick Cobra snake emblems on the fenders? Smiley

     

    I really dig the interior, that does take me back to classic 911's in a positive way, and the color is rich and inviting.

    I also love the exterior color, and think the wheels look clean and at-home.

    Don't mind the front end that much at all, although I'm still most satisfied with my cleaner and simpler '05 S nose.

    Who cares about the price, with only 250 units, I won't be getting one anyhow.


    --
    If you've got an issue, here's a tissue...

    Re: Limited addition 911 Classic launched (250 world wide)

    Rossi:
    RC:

    I say this only once and then I shut up: whoever buys this thing should get a serious reality check (or doesn't have a clue about Porsche cars).

    Btw: the powerkit should be available soon, buying a 997 with powerkit for this kind of money is kind of...well...how should I put it...DUMB.


    +1 Smiley
     


    I must admit. I fully agree...

    Fully specd 997.2 CS PDK X51 cost around €145K in Germany. This SC is way overpriced.... That toy is for very fluent collectors apparently...

    BTW, I asked about Sportclassicgrau as possible color for my 997.2 Turbo PDK. Better not to tell you about the answer...Smiley


    Re: Limited addition 911 Classic launched (250 world wide)

    KresoF1:

    BTW, I asked about Sportclassicgrau as possible color for my 997.2 Turbo PDK. Better not to tell you about the answer...Smiley

     

     

    18.500,00 Euro option?Smiley


    --
    997 TT, what a car/che'mmmmmaghena!!!


    Re: Limited addition 911 Classic launched (250 world wide)

    reginos:
    RC:

    I say this only once and then I shut up: whoever buys this thing should get a serious reality check (or doesn't have a clue about Porsche cars).

    Btw: the powerkit should be available soon, buying a 997 with powerkit for this kind of money is kind of...well...how should I put it...DUMB.

    The Powerkit is already available for MY2010 for all Carrera S (2wd,4wd, PDK and manual and all body styles)

    "X51 Carrera S Powerkit
    Engine upgrade to 408 hp. Comprised of modified cylinder heads, carbon-fiber
    air filter casing (upper part), new variable resonance intake manifold with six
    tuning flaps, sports exhaust system featuring specially designed twin dual-tube
    tailpipes and modified engine management. Note: also available in conjunction
    with PDK."

    Price: 16.900 USD, 12.376 Euro Germany

     


    No powerkit car has been delivered to a customer yet, production starts soon. Smiley

    I know that ON PAPER, the powerkit is available, this has been posted on Rennteam last year. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Limited addition 911 Classic launched (250 world wide)

    RC:
    reginos:
    RC:

    I say this only once and then I shut up: whoever buys this thing should get a serious reality check (or doesn't have a clue about Porsche cars).

    Btw: the powerkit should be available soon, buying a 997 with powerkit for this kind of money is kind of...well...how should I put it...DUMB.

    The Powerkit is already available for MY2010 for all Carrera S (2wd,4wd, PDK and manual and all body styles)

    "X51 Carrera S Powerkit
    Engine upgrade to 408 hp. Comprised of modified cylinder heads, carbon-fiber
    air filter casing (upper part), new variable resonance intake manifold with six
    tuning flaps, sports exhaust system featuring specially designed twin dual-tube
    tailpipes and modified engine management. Note: also available in conjunction
    with PDK."

    Price: 16.900 USD, 12.376 Euro Germany

     


    No powerkit car has been delivered to a customer yet, production starts soon. Smiley

    I know that ON PAPER, the powerkit is available, this has been posted on Rennteam last year. Smiley

    Can you post the new X51 power and torque diagram please?


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Limited addition 911 Classic launched (250 world wide)

    The more I see this car, the more divided I get about it.

    On the one hand it really rankles my chain. There was purpose and logic to specials like the original 2.7RS. It was light, had the ducktail because that was the most effective aero device of the time, did away with the superfluous and just concentrated on the necessary...

    This thing is just the opposite. A ducktail on a modern 997? Porsche has spent years developing active spoilers that rise when needed and are much more aerodynamically efficient than this thing! Domed roof and weird front and rear aprons that look so much like aftermarket after thoughts...

    You have to think... "yuck", why is Porsche being so cynical?

    Yet, as often happens with 911s, at the same time it's beginning to grow on me. It is different, and that's actually why it's beginning to find favour in my heart. After all, this Porsche is daring and just plain fun. So what if I think it's a monstrous waste of money? There's nothing preventing me from buying the regular 997 and shutting up, whilst a (very limited) number of collectors snap up the 250 Sport Classics and enjoy them...


    --

    997.1 cab C2S tip



    Re: Limited addition 911 Classic launched (250 world wide)

    Well its certainly interesting.

    Im ok with the looks but  its not as exciting as a GT3 or a GT3RS to me...  As for value, well if you take a C4S and add X51, ceramics and just about every other option going (including all the full leather exlusive options) you struggle to make the car top £110,000.   So a £25,000 premium for the exclusivity of a ducktail and double-bubble roof is rather a lot to pay.

    As nice as it is this car smells of depreciation to me.   Any guesses as to what you might be offered if you bought one and drove it back in say 3 weeks later unhappy with it and wanting to sell it back.My guess would be that they might offer you around £80k for it - meaning I would guestimate a £55k loss on driving this baby out of the showroom.  I just cant see a used one selling for that much more than a very well specced C2/4S with all the toys. £5k-£10k more at most to me....


    Re: Limited addition 911 Classic launched (250 world wide)

    Adam2S:

    Well its certainly interesting.

    Im ok with the looks but  its not as exciting as a GT3 or a GT3RS to me...  As for value, well if you take a C4S and add X51, ceramics and just about every other option going (including all the full leather exlusive options) you struggle to make the car top £110,000.   So a £25,000 premium for the exclusivity of a ducktail and double-bubble roof is rather a lot to pay.

    As nice as it is this car smells of depreciation to me.   Any guesses as to what you might be offered if you bought one and drove it back in say 3 weeks later unhappy with it and wanting to sell it back.My guess would be that they might offer you around £80k for it - meaning I would guestimate a £55k loss on driving this baby out of the showroom.  I just cant see a used one selling for that much more than a very well specced C2/4S with all the toys. £5k-£10k more at most to me....

    Actually, it is not a C4S it is a C2S with the C4 wider body.

    The fact that only 250 units will be made (compared to 1500-2000 of more recent limited editions) immediately directs to collectors (like people who own a garage full of Porsches) or owners who will keep this car forever and give it to their grandchildren.

    Comparisons with the GT2, because of the pricing, are not appropriate IMO because not everyone considers outright speed as relevant. Also the GT3/RS are OTT for many people. Furthermore, not many Porsche owners are such good drivers to do justice to the GT cars' handling/performance.

    My main objection to this car is the absence of PDK.  A PDK with paddles and with different, more sports oriented software/modes would have been an ideal way of promoting the PDK system and an opportunity to position this car at the cutting edge of technology. As it stands it is a Carrera S in disguise.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts


    Re: Limited addition 911 Classic launched (250 world wide)

    But the manual shows a reference to the past. Makes sense. Anyway even at that price, you might not get one if you want one...


    Re: Limited addition 911 Classic launched (250 world wide)

    Yeah I know its a C2S with a widebody but I was using the C4S as a base as its more expensive and allowed for a little of the possible cost of the widebody. Its still a good £25K short of the actual price you could just about recreate this car for. To me its just a "997 C2S Special Edition mk?".  You may love it or hate it but either way Im very certain that at this price its a huge depreciation machine.  Might have a nice 0-60 time but the £60k-£0 loss is going to be even more impressive!

    :)


    Re: Limited addition 911 Classic launched (250 world wide)

    Adam2S:

    Yeah I know its a C2S with a widebody but I was using the C4S as a base as its more expensive and allowed for a little of the possible cost of the widebody. Its still a good £25K short of the actual price you could just about recreate this car for. To me its just a "997 C2S Special Edition mk?".  You may love it or hate it but either way Im very certain that at this price its a huge depreciation machine.  Might have a nice 0-60 time but the £60k-£0 loss is going to be even more impressive!

    :)

    Yes, the only way not to suffer the expected heavy depreciation is to keep the car for as long as it lasts either as part of a Porsche collection or as a car to be bestowed upon the family. If someone is buying for the usual 2-3 years tenure I agree it doesn't make sense.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Limited addition 911 Classic launched (250 world wide)

    the manual is not refernce to the past it's more profit in porsche's pocket.


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: Limited addition 911 Classic launched (250 world wide)

    intouch1:

    the manual is not refernce to the past it's more profit in porsche's pocket.

     Well the whole car is Smiley


    Re: Limited addition 911 Classic launched (250 world wide)

    reginos:
    Adam2S:

    Well its certainly interesting.

    Im ok with the looks but  its not as exciting as a GT3 or a GT3RS to me...  As for value, well if you take a C4S and add X51, ceramics and just about every other option going (including all the full leather exlusive options) you struggle to make the car top £110,000.   So a £25,000 premium for the exclusivity of a ducktail and double-bubble roof is rather a lot to pay.

    As nice as it is this car smells of depreciation to me.   Any guesses as to what you might be offered if you bought one and drove it back in say 3 weeks later unhappy with it and wanting to sell it back.My guess would be that they might offer you around £80k for it - meaning I would guestimate a £55k loss on driving this baby out of the showroom.  I just cant see a used one selling for that much more than a very well specced C2/4S with all the toys. £5k-£10k more at most to me....

    Actually, it is not a C4S it is a C2S with the C4 wider body.

    The fact that only 250 units will be made (compared to 1500-2000 of more recent limited editions) immediately directs to collectors (like people who own a garage full of Porsches) or owners who will keep this car forever and give it to their grandchildren.

    Comparisons with the GT2, because of the pricing, are not appropriate IMO because not everyone considers outright speed as relevant. Also the GT3/RS are OTT for many people. Furthermore, not many Porsche owners are such good drivers to do justice to the GT cars' handling/performance.

    My main objection to this car is the absence of PDK.  A PDK with paddles and with different, more sports oriented software/modes would have been an ideal way of promoting the PDK system and an opportunity to position this car at the cutting edge of technology. As it stands it is a Carrera S in disguise.

     

    I'm collecting on a much smaller scale at the moment, but there is difference between a collector's item and just being ripped off. This is the latter.

    I'm sorry, but I'm with RC - you need to be a fool or a gazillionaire (who has every Porsche model already and has nothing left to buy) to buy one of these.

     


    Re: Limited addition 911 Classic launched (250 world wide)

    Fairly priced...


    Re: Limited addition 911 Classic launched (250 world wide)

    nah, you need a gazillionaire fool Smiley
    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.


    Re: Limited addition 911 Classic launched (250 world wide)

    i guess even jerry seinfeld will walk away from this one......


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: Limited addition 911 Classic launched (250 world wide)

    and the real problem is that the original is a valuable car and a collectors item by today.

    but i have never heard of a hommage to a collectors item becoming one itself.

    in 5-10 years time this car will be just as embarrasing as the lincoln cartier editions and what have you.

    can you imagine owners of this car going into a dealership in five years time and asking for a regular rear spoiler and standard carrera wheels....


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: Limited addition 911 Classic launched (250 world wide)

    I think the answer to "what will it be someday" is right along the lines of the '89 Speedster... A good looking machine while a bit quirky at the same time, limited production (the Classic even more-so), and eventually wound up being interesting morsels that pop up every so often at higher-end auctions selling for prices less-than what they cost new, but decently more-than the standard-issue 911 models.

    In other words, there's no raucous story here, it's a nifty car, with a couple "questionable" cues, damn high-priced, but if I see one at auction 20 years from now I'll be more than mildly interested if it can be had for a fraction of it's as-new price. 

    If they sell every one, that means that it was priced just perfectly. Free-market economics baby!!


    --
    If you've got an issue, here's a tissue...

    Re: Limited addition 911 Classic launched (250 world wide)

    intouch1:

    and the real problem is that the original is a valuable car and a collectors item by today.

    but i have never heard of a hommage to a collectors item becoming one itself.

    in 5-10 years time this car will be just as embarrasing as the lincoln cartier editions and what have you.

    can you imagine owners of this car going into a dealership in five years time and asking for a regular rear spoiler and standard carrera wheels....


    Funny you should ridicule Lincoln "Designer Series" Continental Marks.... They're actually doing quite well these days, with ultra-low-mile examples fetching $30-40K pricetags. 4 years ago, a 90-original-mile 1979 Bill Blass Mark V hammered down at $70K at an RM auction I was at.

    Have they beaten inflation? Nope, not very many cars ever beat inflation, collectible or not. But still not shabby in the bigger picture...


    --
    If you've got an issue, here's a tissue...


    Re: Limited addition 911 Classic launched (250 world wide)

    Gauging the size of the market is key.  If Porsche made 1200 SCs at this price there would be an instantaneous glut. Porsche lost money on unsold 959s, if memory serves, which was no cosmetic "limited edition" by any means. The same could be said of the CGT. If the target had been 500 instead of 1500 there would have been none left sitting on showroom floors. At 250 examples there is sufficient depth and interest among those can write a check for this car as others write for an oil change.


    --
    Carpe Diem

    Re: Limited addition 911 Classic launched (250 world wide)

    but also keep in mind that the959 and cgt are more of a marketing exercise than anything else.

    the hype these cars created for the brand just as maserati mc12 and the enzo are beyond the capabilities of any marketing department.

    it is certainly no coincidence that when maserati came back under the management of ferrari that the launched the mc12.


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: Limited addition 911 Classic launched (250 world wide)

    Here is a photoshop I did just for fun, of what it could of been if they would of been a bit  more daring with the retro design, and for the price it should at least be based on the GT3 instead of the Carrera as well IMO 

    997SCv4_rennteam.jpg


    --


    Re: Limited addition 911 Classic launched (250 world wide)

     I like it!  This is what the new GT3RS should've looked like (with all the nice GT3RS hardware like 450hp dry-sump motor, Getrag gearbox with lower gears, etc.  Would be nice to keep the nice SC interior though)

    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello.  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2


    Re: Limited addition 911 Classic launched (250 world wide)

     For the price they should have put the GT3 internals and keep the back seats...

    They could have sold a thousand of these...


    Re: Limited addition 911 Classic launched (250 world wide)

    Carlos from Spain:

    Here is a photoshop I did just for fun, of what it could of been if they would of been a bit  more daring with the retro design, and for the price it should at least be based on the GT3 instead of the Carrera as well IMO 


    These air intakes at the indicators look so cool. Smiley Smiley Smiley

    I'd wished Porsche had done something like this, looks fantastic Carlos. Smiley
     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Limited addition 911 Classic launched (250 world wide)

    im just gonna say i can't wait for the guy who has a '72 RS to buy this in the same color combo and put them side by side!

    Great job Carlos that looks fantastic.


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 
    _____________________________________________________________________
    1986 BMW 325e 5spd 2.7L 121 hp (172 lb·ft) Le Mans Blau on Tan leather.
    1986 BMW 325is 5spd 2.5L 168 hp (164 lb-ft) White on Tan leather (parted out) 
    2005 Ford Focus S, 5spd 2.0L 136 hp (120lb-ft) CD silver on grey (sold)
    1986 Porsche 944, 5spd 2.5L 150 hp (168lb-ft) champagne gold on grown leather. (sold)


    Re: Limited addition 911 Classic launched (250 world wide)

    For those who are interested:

    You can get the new "Fuchs"-wheels of the 997 Sport Classic for your Carrera 4/S, Targa 4/S and Turbo from April 2010 onwards.

    They will be called 19"-Sport Classic wheels.

     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


     
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