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    Re: TSLA is a zero

    MKSGR:
    Mithras:
    MKSGR:
    Mithras:
    MKSGR:
    Mithras:

     

    The gigafactory, which is under construction, will be the largest battery manufacturer in the world. 

    What if lithium batteries will not be good enough for the mass market EV production? This Tesla factory would a gigantic cash burning device then Smiley

    Why would they not be? It isn't rocket science (and Elon employs a lot of those people as well...). Honestly you keep looking for reasons to back up your short, it's not the slam dunk you think. Making batteries isn't all that technically hard, having the material and scale is.

     

    Fact is the existing lithium batteries are far from being good enough.

    Totally agree, but all the bench tests and new lab discoveries are decades away, battery technology moves very very slowly at the commercial level. EVs will still be using lithium batteries in 2025.

    That is exactly the reason why I believe in the plugin hybrids for the next years - and, consequently, the demise of Tesla...

    And I think there will be consensus on battery shape (maybe choice of 2-4) which will allow the bbq propane tank method (you buy a tank once and instead of refilling it when its empty you put the empty one on one shelf and grab a full one from another, only paying for the gas that is already in there). Tesla batteries are already removable, having all cars with the same (2-4) standard and removable batteries that you can just drive over a machine which switches the drained battery with a new one will allow gas stations to continue to be relevant in the EV future. We all talk about the car companies but there are huge number of large, well capitalized and smart gas station companies which will be looking to not go the way of the dodo as well. 


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: TSLA is a zero

    Mithras:
     

    And I think there will be consensus on battery shape (maybe choice of 2-4) which will allow the bbq propane tank method (you buy a tank once and instead of refilling it when its empty you put the empty one on one shelf and grab a full one from another, only paying for the gas that is already in there). Tesla batteries are already removable, having all cars with the same (2-4) standard and removable batteries that you can just drive over a machine which switches the drained battery with a new one will allow gas stations to continue to be relevant in the EV future. We all talk about the car companies but there are huge number of large, well capitalized and smart gas station companies which will be looking to not go the way of the dodo as well. 

    Sounds interesting in theory - but totally unlikely in real life (given the very small number of Tesla cars on the roads) Smiley


    Re: TSLA is a zero

    EVs are here to take over. Those who bash it simply have never been in one, let alone drive one. I've been hugely against EVs, always went out of my way to argue against them.. that was also 3-4 years ago broken heart Today, I see it is the future. The sooner you admit it, the sooner you can catch up.. literally too. I bet that this is only the beginning, and with growth and economies of scales will come huge cuts in prices of batteries and technological improvements. Couple this with clean and renewable energy production, like Germany already gone huge on solar and wind etc.. now you've solved a huge chunk of our collective suicidal mission. I will always love my old classic ICE cars, but I will also have the car of the future. Waiting for an Escape type SUV EV and it's a done deal. 


    --

    1986 BMW 325i Cabrio Alpine Weiss/Black Leather - German Spec 
    2006 Mercedes-Benz CLS 500 Black/Black Leather 

    Ex: ''91 BMW 535i, '91 BMW 318i, '89 BMW 525i, '74 Mercedes-Benz 280E, '87 BMW 325is, '86 BMW 325e, '05 Ford Focus ZX4 S, '85.5 Porsche 944

     


    Re: TSLA is a zero

    I want a G-Class EV.


    Re: TSLA is a zero

    As long as the rear seats can fold flat sure broken heart


    --

    1986 BMW 325i Cabrio Alpine Weiss/Black Leather - German Spec 
    2006 Mercedes-Benz CLS 500 Black/Black Leather 

    Ex: ''91 BMW 535i, '91 BMW 318i, '89 BMW 525i, '74 Mercedes-Benz 280E, '87 BMW 325is, '86 BMW 325e, '05 Ford Focus ZX4 S, '85.5 Porsche 944

     


    Re: TSLA is a zero

    martini964:
    RC:
    noone1:
    Carlos from Spain:
    noone1:
    Carlos from Spain:

    Even better with my R8: My sales guy came, picked the car up at my garage, left me a loaner (now I have a RS6 Performance with ABT tuning 700 hp and Akrapovic exhaust Smiley) and when the car is ready, I get it brought back home, fully cleaned and with winter wheels. Amazing.

     

    well, You definitely remember ferris bueller's day off garage valet's joyride. just check the milage Smiley 

    Smiley I got him promoted twice (no kidding) and also, I am directly "connected" to his boss now (who leads dozens of dealerships in Germany, over 20000 sold cars per year), so I assume he is treating my car with the utmost respect and carefulness. At least I hope so. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: TSLA is a zero

    noone1:

    I want a G-Class EV.

    For me, the next generation Cayenne Turbo S please. Smiley 

    I'm afraid however that I'm not going to be able to afford it. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: TSLA is a zero

    If my guess is correct, the next Cayenne Turbo S will have the drivetrain from the Panamera Turbo S, i.e. will be a performance hybrid.

    4.0L Twin turbo V8 550HP plus the 140HP or so from the electric motor.

     


    --

     

     


    Re: TSLA is a zero

    Whoopsy:

    If my guess is correct, the next Cayenne Turbo S will have the drivetrain from the Panamera Turbo S, i.e. will be a performance hybrid.

    4.0L Twin turbo V8 550HP plus the 140HP or so from the electric motor.

    136!!!

     


    --

    Mike

    918 Spyder + 991 GT3 RS +Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S + Panamera Turbo +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T


    Re: TSLA is a zero

    Carlos from Spain:
    MKSGR:
    noone1:
     

    And you'd be reflecting on the steering of any other car how exactly? In the context of such a time critical, 300 mile journey, you'd just be on cruise control on the autobahn with the steering wheel positioned straight. You wouldn't have time to enjoy back roads and slow scenic routes considering your tight time schedule.

    Ok, in this case you could also reflect on how the electric energy you are using has been generated. For example, with a nuclear power station close to the Californian shore that might blow up the whole area during the next huge earth quake. Or, alternatively, through a coal burning power station that is less efficient than a modern car engine, even before the efficiency loss inside the car is being taken into account Smiley 

    P.S.: You might also reflect on the latest fatal accidents with Tesla cars, as we were talking about safety features in cars...

    Or the resale value of a Tesla after their bankruptcy...

    And also think about the impact of those huge batteries on the environment too, the rare metals they use are mined in environmentally unfriendly mines which dump toxic elements to the environment as a by product not to mention the slavery conditions of the workers in those mines.

    Tesla is in car business because its the first one to try with EV , but the technology is not there yet, that is why its not mainstream and its only mostly Tesla. The problem is when technology becomes more versatile and practical, the big manufacturers will step into EV and that is when Tesla will disappear, there is no way they will be able to compete. The only reason people buy a Tesla is because its EV, if Teslas were ICE like the rest, nobody would buy one! outside the EV properties they are crap. they would be bankrupt overnight. So once the big manufacturers with their R&D and know-how on building cars get into EV, they will be better in other every aspect (quality, interiors, handling, safety, service and dealer infrasctructure, costs, etc) and Teslas will not be the EV option anymore, it will just be a mediocre EV version.

    I'm not saying Tesla as a company will disappear, they will likely diversify into other innovative areas, but as a car maker they will disappear IMO.


    --

     

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     

    They can be acquire by a big manufacture and still be on the business for long. Imagine if Ford which was one the last manufactures to invest on Electric cars buys Tesla !!! All their problems would be solved overnight Smiley


    --

    J.Seven

     

     


    Re: TSLA is a zero

    Tesla just poached Anders Bell from Volvo. He was the Head of Interior Engineering for the XC90, S90/V90 interiors (which I think are some of the best in the business and a perfect aesthetic for Tesla).  


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: TSLA is a zero

    I think they need someone from Audi instead................


    --

     

     


    Re: TSLA is a zero

    Mithras:

    Tesla just poached Anders Bell from Volvo. He was the Head of Interior Engineering for the XC90, S90/V90 interiors (which I think are some of the best in the business and a perfect aesthetic for Tesla).  

    And that's the same reason Tesla really will never have a significant technology advantage. Anyone can hire anyone, and they do. It doesn't cost much to poach talent, relatively speaking. Want a top engineer from Tesla? Give him $1M.


    Re: TSLA is a zero

    noone1:
    Mithras:

    Tesla just poached Anders Bell from Volvo. He was the Head of Interior Engineering for the XC90, S90/V90 interiors (which I think are some of the best in the business and a perfect aesthetic for Tesla).  

    And that's the same reason Tesla really will never have a significant technology advantage. Anyone can hire anyone, and they do. It doesn't cost much to poach talent, relatively speaking. Want a top engineer from Tesla? Give him $1M.

    Also, the question is if you hire people from Volvo if you want to have the best of the industry Smiley 


    Re: TSLA is a zero

    A Swedish engineer. They are the best indecision


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: TSLA is a zero

    bluelines:

    A Swedish engineer. They are the best indecision

    If they want to add some nice wooden interior design they might also poach some IKEA staff Smiley


    Re: TSLA is a zero

    Whoopsy:

    I think they need someone from Audi instead................

    Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: TSLA is a zero

    MKSGR:
    bluelines:

    A Swedish engineer. They are the best indecision

    If they want to add some nice wooden interior design they might also poach some IKEA staff Smiley

    Bad idea. Then the interior will be delivered with the car in a flat package for your own assembly Smiley 


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: TSLA is a zero

    MKSGR:
    noone1:
    Mithras:

    Tesla just poached Anders Bell from Volvo. He was the Head of Interior Engineering for the XC90, S90/V90 interiors (which I think are some of the best in the business and a perfect aesthetic for Tesla).  

    And that's the same reason Tesla really will never have a significant technology advantage. Anyone can hire anyone, and they do. It doesn't cost much to poach talent, relatively speaking. Want a top engineer from Tesla? Give him $1M.

    Also, the question is if you hire people from Volvo if you want to have the best of the industry Smiley 

    You guys are hilariousSmiley. For it's price I think the XC90 has one of the best interiors in the industry. Scandinavian lightness and general aesthetic is a perfect fir for Tesla. You can't say a Tesla with interior details like the below wouldn't greatly enhance the sense of quality.


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: TSLA is a zero

    S90 has a fantastic interior. 100x better than any Tesla.


     
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