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    Re: Time For ECU Tuning?

    Very interesting differentiation between lag and spooling up. What this article leads to is a very important question that I don't know the answer yet:  We've seen many remarks by users that an ECU tune decreases lag, but... does it help with faster spooling up?

    In the stock Turbo, my observation is there are 2 distinct areas:
    1. Below 3000: Less power and feels like my NA 997 C2. I assume this is the spooling up.
    2. Above 3000: Turbo kicks in. AKA "all hell breaks loose."
    If the ECU tune helps to make spooling up faster, then it is welcome news indeed.


    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/kitcar/kb.php?aid=46
    Lag

    A lag is sometimes felt by the driver of a turbocharged vehicle as a delay between pushing on the accelerator pedal and feeling the turbo kick-in. This is symptomatic of the time taken for the exhaust system driving the turbine to come to high pressure and for the turbine rotor to overcome its rotational inertia and reach the speed necessary to supply boost pressure. The directly-driven compressor in a supercharger does not suffer this problem. Conversely on light loads or at low RPM a turbocharger supplies less boost and the engine is more efficient than a supercharged engine.

    Lag can be reduced by reducing the rotational inertia of the turbine, for example by using lighter parts to allow the spin-up to happen more quickly. Ceramic turbines are a big help in this direction. Another way to reduce lag is to change the aspect ratio of the turbine by reducing the diameter and increasing the gas-flow path-length. Increasing the upper-deck air pressure and improving the wastegate response help but there are cost increases and reliability disadvantages that car manufacturers are not happy about. Lag is also reduced by using a precision bearing rather than a fluid bearing, this reduces friction rather than rotational inertia but contributes to faster acceleration of the turbo's rotating assembly.

    Some car makers combat lag by using two small turbos (like Toyota, Maserati and Audi). A typical arrangement for this is to have one turbo active across the entire rev range of the engine and one coming on-line at higher RPM. Being such small units they do not suffer from excessive lag and having the second turbo operating at a higher RPM range allows it to get to full rotational speed before it is required.

    Lag is not to be confused with the turbo spooling up, however many publications still make this basic mistake. The spool-up time of a turbo system describes the minimum turbo RPM at which the turbo is physically able to supply the requested boost level. Newer turbocharger and engine developments have caused spool-times to steadily decline to where day-to-day use feels perfectly natural. Putting your foot down at 1200 engine rpm and having no boost until 2000 rpm is spool-up and not lag.


    --
     

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review and Pictures ) + ECU Tune ( ??? ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Time For ECU Tuning?

    Cann,

    Still down to GIAC & EVOMS?

    Any others getting serious consideration?

    I'm leaning towards GIAC.

     


    --

    08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet, 06 Ferrari F430,  04 Durango HEMI,  04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle,  93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia

     


    Re: Time For ECU Tuning?

    STRADALE:

    Cann,

    Still down to GIAC & EVOMS?

    Any others getting serious consideration?

    I'm leaning towards GIAC.

     

    Hmm let me see how I could answer this without starting a flash-war ("my flash is is better than your flash") Smiley. Basically, the top 2 US tuners in term of sales are probably still GIAC and EVOMS, with the note that EVOMS came later but has come on the scene very strongly (note their 47th or something EVT700!). Honorable mentions are Protomotive and Revo, still. Both GIAC and EVOMS are not that good at answering their emails. EVOMS does have a  phone number that you could call and talk to the boss, Todd Zuccone. You might want to give him a call. VERY knowledgeable and take time to answer all your questions. 
    EVOMS, located in Arizona, owns their own Turbo (I like this), on which they develop both software and hardware such as intercooler, larger turbo, etc.
    GIAC on the other hand is software only and is located in Southern Cal; the hardware associated with its ECU tune is developed by AWE Tuning in Pennsylvania. AWE also owns a Turbo I think.

    I guess we are both interested in the lower-power stage of the ECU upgrade, at least for now. In our case, with high flow 200 cell catalyst exhaust, this is the so-called stage 2.
    It just so happens I have run across 2 people who have compared a GIAC tune to a competing ECU tune, and curiously enough, they both appear to mention the same thing. And that is, subjectively at least, the early-stage GIAC tune doesn't seem to feel as torquey in the low range as competing ECU tunes. (One of these reports was posted above.)

    The problem is it's impossible to find a car to test drive, and it's a hassle to flash an ECU and return for a refund, so one sort of has to rely on & trust fellow enthusiasts' findings. The reason I give some weight to these 2 reports is they were not based on a short test drives; each driver mentioned had the car with the respective tune for a reasonable length of time.

    As I believe that horsepower and timing wise (60-130 time, etc.), GIAC is at least the equal of others, this observation is perhaps an example of how in an ECU tune subjective finding is at least as critical as objective one. What factors determine these subjective findings? Perhaps it is the shapes of the torque curves that are different? And how early the torque comes on? I don't know. I do know that tuners pay attention to these parameters, power AND driveability (and therefore I like it when  ECU developer owns the car).

    I actually have arranged to get the EVOMS tune; should be here soon. One thing about GIAC that I will miss with the EVOMS is the ability to go back to stock-like mode. But one, perhaps EVOMS will come out with a similar feature in the future; it sounds very doable (nudge nudge wink wink Smiley), and two, I have found a reasonable alternative; a spare ECU that supposedly could be switched in and out easily. Note that one could get a spare ECU for a price slightly lower than what's listed at EVOMS. The ECU could be obtained from tuner or dealer for about 800-900, plus about 200 for programming in the original DME Porsche software (you need to program in the basic Porsche DME software and then flash the EVOMS tune on top of that). The basic DME program could be installed on the ECU by either EVOMS or your friendly Porsche dealer ("And tell me... just why do you need me to do this extra ECU for you?" Smiley).

    Note that the spare ECU is not for warranty protection (dealer will find out if they really want to, by checking mileage versus hours on ECU I think), but is a way for me to preserve and go back to original & untouched ECU if there is a problem, and a way for me to do comparisons if I feel the need. I figure 1000 is very low cost for peace of mind and learning.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Spare ECU from EVOMS web site (click here):
     

    By purchasing this new ECU option, we will program a new OEM ECU with our performance software which eliminates the need to send us the ECU from your car. Once we have your 997TT VIN number, we will upload all of your vehicles specific information into this ECU and calibrate it according to your cars "thumb print". This allows you to have 2 ECU's that will operate your vehicle allowing you to interchange the stock OEM ECU with your "cloned" performance ECU at anytime. Simply disconnect one and plug the other one in at anytime. This is an excellent option which allows additional flexibility when modifying your new car.


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review and Pictures ) + ECU Tune ( ??? ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Time For ECU Tuning?

    I know some flashes can have a timer built into them so you can sample them for a few days and then they expire without having to go back and reflash at the dealer. Do neither of your prefered tuners do this?
    --


    Click for bigger picture!


    Re: Time For ECU Tuning?

    I have to say it over and over again: there is NO way to fool Porsche with a cloned, modded, re-programmed ECU unit if something bad happens.

    In case of a broken engine, they request a complete diagnostic print-out and sometimes even more. There are certain parameters only Porsche understands and trust me, I've seen it many times before, they FIND OUT. 

    This is why we don't recommend the "usual" ECU tuning because if something happens (and it CAN happen), a new engine costs a fortune and we're talking TENS OF THOUSANDS here, not just just a few bucks.

    Quality tuners like RUF and others offer a real extra warranty for their tuning jobs, so in case something happens, they pay for it if Porsche doesn't pay. Of course this also means that you need to pay much more for the tuning but it REALLY is worth it.

    Last time I checked, a new 997 Turbo engine was something in the 40000 EUR range, I think the price tag in the US is around 50000 USD. Happy tuning. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Time For ECU Tuning?

    I think Can had ruled out European tuners though Christian earlier in the thread as their remaps are based on 98 RON fuel which is difficult to come by in the US.

    I would be interested to hear what the Ruf center in the US has to say about this.

    Got to say that for me the ONLY reason I didn't go the Ruf route was that there are no resellers here in the UK and I would have had to ship my car over to Germany and back.  By far the most expensive Stage II kit though - 3 times more than the 'average' tuners prices.


    --


    Click for bigger picture!


    Re: Time For ECU Tuning?

    Alex_997TT:

    I think Can had ruled out European tuners though Christian earlier in the thread as their remaps are based on 98 RON fuel which is difficult to come by in the US.

    I would be interested to hear what the Ruf center in the US has to say about this.

    Got to say that for me the ONLY reason I didn't go the Ruf route was that there are no resellers here in the UK and I would have had to ship my car over to Germany and back.  By far the most expensive Stage II kit though - 3 times more than the 'average' tuners prices.

    your choice, Rs tuning, is the n°1 turbo tuner


    --
    Dedi La vita è troppo corta per non guidare italiano.....

    Re: Time For ECU Tuning?

    Talking of tuners/tuning..

    Last week end we had a meeting of some "supercars" and i find out that my stock 997 Turbo with only BMC airfilter and Cargraphic exhaust is a lot faster than a 997 Turbo with an "italian" ECU remap and Tuby exhaust...

    We make some acceleration in 3rd and 4th gear till 5/6th gear and my car pull away for 3/4 car lenght

    at the next stop the guy of the other Turbo tell me what he must do to the car to let push at least like a stock one(mine)I tell him that the Turbo is not a car to let tune from the first that come,and a cheap Ecu remap can make the car slower than stock..so a lot of risk,to broke something(his car in hard acceleration makes white smoke from the left side of the exhaust too) ,and to have the car slower.He see 1.2bar on the speedo,instead on mine i see only a few times 1.1 bar,so the "tuner" take up the boost of his turbos maybe without touching the other settings..

    So,guys if you must tune..go to the right Tuner,and don't go to a cheap one that make your car slower than stock!!

     

     


    --
    997 TT, what a car/che'mmmmmaghena!!!


    Re: Time For ECU Tuning?

    Very interesting points; thanks for all your input. Just a few points:

    RC (nice to see you here), you are repeating what I was posting: We are in agreement that there is no fooling Porsche. I am using the second ECU for other reasons.

    Darius, what is the max octane rating of gasoline in Italy? If it is 95 RON, I would at least check with RS Tuning or RUF if it is safe for reasons we discussed earlier in the thread. FWIW, my interpretation of the answer Alex got from Cargraphic is: NO, they did not tune using 95 RON.

    BTW, RUF's quality is without question, but as far as the warranty is concerned, for US customers with 4 year standard warranty it is NOT the rosy fool proof  protection picture that you might have gotten from RC's post . First, its duration is one paltry year. Second, I wonder what's stated in black and white by RUF as far as this warranty, because from a 6speed posting from my forum's friend "bbywu," the conditions, if true, sound "unusual," like something I should have my lawyer look at if I ever am serious -- kidding:
    "My understanding is a RUF flash may still void your warranty, but damage claims made at a dealer service department will be negotiated through RAC for 1 year after installation. And after that first year, you're on your own."
    Does anyone have this warranty that you could post? I am curious.

    RS Tuning versus RUF: Ah, no flash war ("my flash is better than your flash") here please! Not yet.


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review and Pictures ) + ECU Tune ( ??? ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Time For ECU Tuning?

    Can

    In Italy stock with have 95 RON,Agip and another brand has 98 ,and Shell has 100 V power.

    I always use V-Power,and after last week end "tests" i understand another times that the Turbo is a really fast car also stock..so i have not too much need to tune it now...i think i can wait a few


    --
    997 TT, what a car/che'mmmmmaghena!!!

    Re: Time For ECU Tuning?

    But, don't forget that, although the standard warranty is only 2 years in the EU, one can keep extending this each year from year 2 to year 9 (or 125000 miles - whichever comes sooner). So any aftermarket tuning that normally voids the warranty should be delayed for longer.

    PAG makes cars that are very reliable - especially compared to other manufacturers - BUT I just think to myself - there are so many things that COULD go wrong on a car. Do I really want to take the risk that my warranty is voided and I cannot get a faulty PCM or faulty sunroof fixed free under warranty?

     


    --

    Rennteam Moderator - 997.1 C2S Coupe GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: Time For ECU Tuning?

    For a Turbo car tuning the ECU via a quality tuning company, the benefits far outweigh the risks IMHO. I don't think that is true for a NA car though. It's not just about more power either. My car is in a completely different league to the stock car in terms of the smoothness of power delivery and extra torque - which is most applicable to driving on public roads. As a result my car now feels far healthier than it did as stock.
    --


    Click for bigger picture!


    Re: Time For ECU Tuning?

    Of course I would certainly think again if it were an A91 and not a 'bulletproof' GT1 based engine!
    --


    Click for bigger picture!


    Re: Time For ECU Tuning?

    Alex_997TT:
    ...  the benefits far outweigh the risks IMHO...


    This analysis is necessarily a value judgement with no right or wrong answer.

    On the one hand, you get more power, more performance etc. This is a collection of benefits that you can enjoy from the time you do the modification onwards. Smiley

    On the other hand, having a valid warranty only gives piece of mind and nothing else UNTIL something bad happens. Only then can any quantifiable economic benefit be derived.

    Essentially, you have 2 comparisons.

    1) economic: cost of mod vs (possible) economic saving from getting repairs done free under warranty (minus any warranty extension cost - beyond the expiry of the standard warranty)

    2) non-financial: piece of mind of having a valid warranty vs the pleasure of greater power/performance etc (this is not measurable financially)

    So the overall exercise becomes a subjective value judgement whose outcome, for each person, will depend upon how much personal value one places on each element of the above comparisons.

    As for the warranty itself - from a strictly legal perspective, if a warranty is voided (e.g. because of a modified engine) it is voided for all purposes (so that e.g. repairs to a faulty PCM couldn't be claimed either).

    If PAG/PCGB/PCNA (or whoever) is prepared to honour a voided warranty then that is purely a goodwill gesture on their part - they have no legal obligation to do so - maybe because they value a particular customer and want that person to keep buying Porsche products again in future. (e.g. if a warranty is voided because of an engine modification then they may not honour it for a subsequent engine fault but they may, at their discretion, choose to honour it for a faulty sunroof etc). Smiley


    --
     

    Rennteam Moderator - 997.1 C2S Coupe GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: Time For ECU Tuning?

    Agreed; it's a very subjective matter depending heavily on your personal circumstances.
    --


    Click for bigger picture!


    Re: Time For ECU Tuning?

    Super Darius:

    Talking of tuners/tuning..
    Last week end we had a meeting of some "supercars" and i find out that my stock 997 Turbo with only BMC airfilter and Cargraphic exhaust is a lot faster than a 997 Turbo with an "italian" ECU remap and Tuby exhaust...
    We make some acceleration in 3rd and 4th gear till 5/6th gear and my car pull away for 3/4 car lenght

     

    Yesterday i raced my freinds stock 997 turbo , with my Ruf 550 997 turbo , the race was from 50km - 250km  and there was no comparison i gave him about 4 car lengths at 200 and slowly walking away.

    i also raced a sevral 600+ hp rating 997 turbos with stock vtgsSmiley...... and the outcome was for the Ruf all day long...

    the 997 turbo i raced is also in very good shape , earlier this evening he raced an MTM 730 hp Audi RS6 the Audi had a passenger while my freind was alone  the 997 turbo gave him half a car length till 200km which in my opinion is impressive.

    I agree with Super Darius if you want to Mod your Turbo do it right and choose the tuner carefully Smiley


    Re: Time For ECU Tuning?

    TTurbine:
    .....

    Yesterday i raced my freinds stock 997 turbo , with my Ruf 550 997 turbo ,

    ....

    Thanks for sharing and congrats. You have a fantastic tuning system.

    Did RUF give you any warranty promise in writing? Not that it matters but so much has been made of the RUF warranty that I, and I suspect many readers of this thread, am now "officially" curious of the brouhaha.

    I believe we now have a lawyer of pretty serious "pedigree" Smiley reading the thread; it would be interesting to see his analysis of the fabled RUF warranty. What's been posted for the US sounds at best ho-hum to me, wonder if Rest of World's is different.


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review and Pictures ) + ECU Tune ( ??? ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Time For ECU Tuning?

    ER, thoughtful analysis as always. Here is my take. The Porche Turbo community in the US is teeming with activities. These activities revolve around the triad of Turbo/GT2 modding: suspension, exhaust, ecu. (For the GT3, it is suspension, exhaust, and fixing RMS. Kidding about the last one. Smiley) In the past I wondered if these guys know what they are doing. I did observe that 90% plus of people who modify their cars do NOT revert to the old way; they seem to have a good time.

    Having done 2 of the 3 in the triad, I would now say, I wouldn't trade this experience for anything else in the (car) world. The modding has elevated the hobby, and my understanding of car, of driving, to a level previously unimaginable. I love it.

    Do I need the ECU upgrade? No. This car as is blows away 99% of cars on the road, and I don't track. Is there a risk? Yes. But as a good friend reminds me times and again, it's never about the need, it's the want. Smiley Like owning a Turbo, It's one of those "once in my life I must" kind of things. So yes, partly "want," partly curiosity, and if it turns out to be fun, so much the better!


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review and Pictures ) + ECU Tune ( ??? ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Time For ECU Tuning?

    Yes over here in the Middle East they give there customers get a writen 1 year warranty and 30,000 km whichever comes first on on the engine, i beleive in the US they offer 2 years? someone please correct me . it is also written that the warranty will void is the vechile is used for competitive driving and racing and wear and tear parts will not be coverd. It is signed and stamped by Ruf.

    if you read the porsche warranty carefully it will state the same , i.e warranty will not be coverd for track use , racing , wear and tear etc...

    so i hope this helps Smiley


    Re: Time For ECU Tuning?

    Ruf's warranty in the US is 1 year.  If there are problems, you can either ship it back or have your dealership's service department repair and work with Ruf.  The guys at Ruf know I'm planning on tracking my car...they actually encourage it.  Ruf will always take care of you.


    Re: Time For ECU Tuning?

    Ruf is sponsoring a private track day June 6th here in Texas, so I would say  they approve of track use Smiley.I'll be there and I will post pics.Smiley

    What is all the faszination with warranty anyway? If you're worried about the warranty, don't do any mods.  And one year is better than NONE which is what every other tuner offers.


    --
     

    Doug

    Houston, Texas USA 

    997TT ...RUF550


    Re: Time For ECU Tuning?

    TT Gasman:

    Ruf is sponsoring a private track day June 6th here in Texas, so I would say  they approve of track use Smiley.I'll be there and I will post pics.Smiley

    What is all the faszination with warranty anyway? If you're worried about the warranty, don't do any mods.  And one year is better than NONE which is what every other tuner offers.

     

    Agreed on all points & thanks to the Ruf owners for the feedback. Bottom line, IMO 2 key points:
    1. Ruf's warranty of 1 year is better than other tuners.
    2. That said, all ECU tunes, including RUF, void the Porsche warranty. In this important aspect, no one company offers better protection than others.
    Meaning, if you worry about the Porsche warranty, you shouldn't mod the ECU, and the tuning company you pick should be based on power, cost, etc., merits, not what the warranty term is.

    I would like to share my opinion about ECU tune's safety, particularly as it related to the "stages" of ECU mod, and how, in reality, an ECU tune doesn't really void *all* the Porsche warranty (It all depends on what problem it is & Porsche is not necessarily & always that unreasonable, to the point of denying a totally unrelated warranty claim.), but for now I can't, as the only thing on my mind is:
    Los Angeles Lakers 103 Denver Nuggets 97

    SmileySmileySmiley

     


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review and Pictures ) + ECU Tune ( ??? ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Time For ECU Tuning?

    So... what happened?

    Up first is my audition of EVOMSit, one of the 2 big guns of US ECU tuning. I was attracted by EVOMS' near 100% feedback rating and the fact that in California, the 91 PON/95 RON octane rating eliminates European tuners like RUF and Cargraphic/RS Tuning. In the case of RUF, cost is an additional factor; it would bring the cost of my Turbo too uncomfortably close to that of other exotics like Lambo or GT2. Cargraphic/RS Tuning is an incredibly attractive choice, but besides the octane problem, even for non-California US regions, I have confirmed that it's not available from the US Cargraphic Distributor, RSS/Stuttgart Performance. The support, which would be from across the pond, is deemed too much of a hassle.

    The EVOMSit program was loaded onto a second, brand new ECU, part number 997 618 602 03, made in Hungary (curiously, my original ECU is part number 997 618 602 02, and is made in Germany). You could buy an ECU for about US $650 from source like Sunset Imports in the US, then have a Porsche dealer, or the tuner, flashes the basic Porsche DME program specific to VIN number of your car on it for an additional $200 (VIN number of your car is necessary for this step), then the ECU tune program is then flashed on top of this basic Porsche program. The total should be around 850 or so.

    Installation of this is simple and takes about 15 minutes by pro's, 30 minutes or more by amateurs. The support by RSS/Stuttgart and EVOMS was great. Todd of EVOMS took time to answer all of my questions. (Whether I understood the answers is another matter. Smiley)

    As mentioned in my brief impression in the other thread (I'll repost later), the first thing I noticed on the way home was that a friend from the Porsche club was with me (my wife has sub zero interest in my Porsche activities), and we couldn't carry a converstion on our way home comfortably. I mean my Cargraphic Loud exhaust was not exactly quiet, but the new noise level was quite a bit louder,  higher in frequency (therefore irritating), and was present at all rpm. The constant droning was uncomfortable for a daily driver and took me by surprise, since no one has mentioned this on previous reviews. This lack of similar findings makes me think perhaps this problem is specific to my car (another person on 6speed, with Miltek on Turbo Cab does have the same problem). OTOH, we know that timing and air fuel ratio are among the parameters that are adjusted in these tunes, so it is almost expected that there should be some change in exhaust sound with ECU mod. Regardless, the level of change did take me by surprise.

    The second thing that I found out was that the EVOMSit ECU tune increases idle RPM by 100, from around 750 to 850. Another surprise because no one had mentioned this previously. Thinking the noise problem is related to this higher idle, I requested a re-flash with lower RPM. Unfortunately, the re-flash has not cured the noise problem. While the EVOMSit power gain was remarkable and easily noticeable, I could not not tolerate the noise and therefore asked for, and was promptly given, a refund.

    I am now somewhat addicted to the power gain and would like to try another flash, but this would have to wait until I come back from summer vacation towards the end of July-- or the wife won't be too happySmiley. Sigh.

     

     


    --
     

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review and Pictures ) + ECU Tune ( ??? ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Time For ECU Tuning?

    cannga:

    So... what happened?

    Up first is my audition of EVOMSit, one of the 2 big guns of US ECU tuning. I was attracted by EVOMS' near 100% feedback rating and the fact that in California, the 91 PON/95 RON octane rating eliminates European tuners like RUF and Cargraphic/RS Tuning. In the case of RUF, cost is an additional factor; it would bring the cost of my Turbo too uncomfortably close to that of other exotics like Lambo or GT2. Cargraphic/RS Tuning is an incredibly attractive choice, but besides the octane problem, even for non-California US regions, I have confirmed that it's not available from the US Cargraphic Distributor, RSS/Stuttgart Performance. The support, which would be from across the pond, is deemed too much of a hassle.

    The EVOMSit program was loaded onto a second, brand new ECU, part number 997 618 602 03, made in Hungary (curiously, my original ECU is part number 997 618 602 02, and is made in Germany). You could buy an ECU for about US $650 from source like Sunset Imports in the US, then have a Porsche dealer, or the tuner, flashes the basic Porsche DME program specific to VIN number of your car on it for an additional $200 (VIN number of your car is necessary for this step), then the ECU tune program is then flashed on top of this basic Porsche program. The total should be around 850 or so.

    Installation of this is simple and takes about 15 minutes by pro's, 30 minutes or more by amateurs. The support by RSS/Stuttgart and EVOMS was great. Todd of EVOMS took time to answer all of my questions. (Whether I understood the answers is another matter. Smiley)

    As mentioned in my brief impression in the other thread (I'll repost later), the first thing I noticed on the way home was that a friend from the Porsche club was with me (my wife has sub zero interest in my Porsche activities), and we couldn't carry a converstion on our way home comfortably. I mean my Cargraphic Loud exhaust was not exactly quiet, but the new noise level was quite a bit louder,  higher in frequency (therefore irritating), and was present at all rpm. The constant droning was uncomfortable for a daily driver and took me by surprise, since no one has mentioned this on previous reviews. This lack of similar findings makes me think perhaps this problem is specific to my car (another person on 6speed, with Miltek on Turbo Cab does have the same problem). OTOH, we know that timing and air fuel ratio are among the parameters that are adjusted in these tunes, so it is almost expected that there should be some change in exhaust sound with ECU mod. Regardless, the level of change did take me by surprise.

    The second thing that I found out was that the EVOMSit ECU tune increases idle RPM by 100, from around 750 to 850. Another surprise because no one had mentioned this previously. Thinking the noise problem is related to this higher idle, I requested a re-flash with lower RPM. Unfortunately, the re-flash has not cured the noise problem. While the EVOMSit power gain was remarkable and easily noticeable, I could not not tolerate the noise and therefore asked for, and was promptly given, a refund.

    I am now somewhat addicted to the power gain and would like to try another flash, but this would have to wait until I come back from summer vacation towards the end of July-- or the wife won't be too happySmiley. Sigh.

      

    THANKS for the update Cann!

    Wow, how crazy is that.

    So what's the next step in a couple of months , GIAC?


    --

    08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet, 06 Ferrari F430,  04 Durango HEMI,  04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle,  93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia

     


    Re: Time For ECU Tuning?

    Can.....thanks for the update. So does anyone have a guess what is causing the noise/resonance/whatever it is ?



    --


    2009 997 GT2 RS Tuning 542PS/736NM


    Re: Time For ECU Tuning?

    Gotta be an air/ fuel issue I would think. Some exhausts, particularly fabspeed, seem to be very sensitive to air density. On a crisp cool day it sounds awesome but drones like a mutha on hot humid days.


    --

    Doug

    Houston, Texas USA 

    997TT ...RUF550


    Re: Time For ECU Tuning?

     Now thats interesting.. My GT2 exhaust (200cell cats) drones too but only between 2.5k-3k rpm. I never thought that this could be related to ecu tuning.. It will be very interesting if an ecu tune from a different tuner would make any difference in that respect..


    Re: Time For ECU Tuning?

    Doesn't RC have a CG exhaust on a stock car?  He reported drone too.


    --


    Click for bigger picture!


    Re: Time For ECU Tuning?

    Ruf exhaust here , no drone or resonace whatso ever


    Re: Time For ECU Tuning?

    Let me clarify what the problem is before we discuss this further: When you start the Turbo in the morning, in the first minute or so, the exhaust is really loud, then after 1 minute, it becomes quiet. The EVOMS in my car sounds somewhere between that first minute of loudness and the eventual calmness. It's really not too loud, but because it is a higher frequency noise and remains a. at idle and b. stays farily loud above 3000 rpm at moderate throttle application (both of these I did not have previously, as the Cargraphic exhaust is actually quiet at idle and above 3000 only loud with aggressive throttle application). In a track or weekend car, with a younger person perhaps, a juvenile delinquent for example, this noise might/would have been ok. In a daily driver, it was causing me to have a headache.

    There is also no doubt about the second change: The low rumbling from the Cargraphic exhaust was greatly diminished. The deep gutteral roar that shakes the car, a cross between hostility and anger Smiley, when jabbing on gas pedal at traffic stops to about 1200 rpm, was gone (this I missed dearly). The exhaust note shifts to a more irritating and stressful higher frequency as a result. In fact, I was sitting in the guest area of the shop when they changed the ECU from EVOMS back to my original ECU and then started the car. As soon as they fired up the engine, I instantly recognized the rumbling and knew the old ECU is back.

    Most people change exhaust and ECU tune together, so would not be able to hear a change from an ECU tune alone. Partly because of this, IMO the fact that a change is rarely described doesn't mean it doesn't exist, nor do I think that it's restricted to EVOMS. I would agree it might be more severe with EVOMS + Cargraphic + my particular car than other situations. I would also agree that it might be worse with EVOMS because for whatever reason it happens at idle as well and therefore very easily noticeable. 

    Of the parameters that are manipulated, boost, timing, AFR, I am speculating that the culprit is the Air Fuel Ratio (runnning rich?). For sure I will ask people more about this. Because an ECU tune by definition changes combustion parameters,  it actually would surprise me if an exhaust sound does NOT change with any particular ECU tune. Well, at least a little bit?

    PS: Toby, you seem to have plenty of experience with turbo tuning, you've never noticed anything like this before? A different exhaust sound when combustion parameters of the turbo are changed?


    --
     

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review and Pictures ) + ECU Tune ( ??? ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


     
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