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    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    Unfortunately PCCBs in other colors are not possible at the moment. I spoke personally with U.Lutz and she said to me that PCCBs in black(that was my idea-to have them in black!) are not possible. She also said that they are not currently planning to offer this option. And, yes, the cost of having them in black, red or silver was previously around 5000Euro!! Criminal act if you ask me...

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    And, yes, the cost of having them in black, red or silver was previously around 5000Euro!! Criminal act if you ask me...



    Absolutely!

    Unvelievable. Here you got a Porsche-Exclusive-aluminium-carbon-leather-wood-department, where you can any thing you like for your Porsche, on the other hand they can't even offer different colours for the calipers.

    BTW: black would have been my choice also.

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    And, yes, the cost of having them in black, red or silver was previously around 5000Euro!! Criminal act if you ask me...



    Absolutely!

    Unvelievable. Here you got a Porsche-Exclusive-aluminium-carbon-leather-wood-department, where you can any thing you like for your Porsche, on the other hand they can't even offer different colours for the calipers.

    BTW: black would have been my choice also.



    Oh yes , black would be my choice too if given the option. That would be awesome as my car will be completely black. It is a shame that this is not an option for a reasonable price.

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    993S said:
    An extra concern that I do have is the following, I change wheels a lot. I mean maybe 3 to 5 times a year. If I touch/hit the brake disk with a wheel I will most probably damage it my dealer told me. It seems you need special tools to change wheels. Is this correct ?



    Sort-of correct.

    The "special tools" are just 2 metal "pins" about 150 mm (6") long, maybe 14 mm in diameter, with a screw thread at one end of each. You screw them into two of the wheel bolt holes after first removing the bolts. This allows you to use the pins as guides to pull the wheel straight off the hub when changing wheels, to avoid the risk of the wheel inner rim falling onto the PCCB rotor and chipping it. The pins are part of the tool kit of cars supplied with PCCB brakes.



    Just received my car yesterday and to my surprise no pins in the tool kit. Checked owners manual and it turns out you have to order them separate if you want to remove a wheel

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be

    What happens if your pccb-equipped car gets a flat tire? Without those pins it sounds like you're not even going to be able to remove the wheel without risking your pccb rotors.

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be

    They cost ~$10 at your dealer.

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    Quote:
    993S said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    993S said:
    An extra concern that I do have is the following, I change wheels a lot. I mean maybe 3 to 5 times a year. If I touch/hit the brake disk with a wheel I will most probably damage it my dealer told me. It seems you need special tools to change wheels. Is this correct ?



    Sort-of correct.

    The "special tools" are just 2 metal "pins" about 150 mm (6") long, maybe 14 mm in diameter, with a screw thread at one end of each. You screw them into two of the wheel bolt holes after first removing the bolts. This allows you to use the pins as guides to pull the wheel straight off the hub when changing wheels, to avoid the risk of the wheel inner rim falling onto the PCCB rotor and chipping it. The pins are part of the tool kit of cars supplied with PCCB brakes.



    Just received my car yesterday and to my surprise no pins in the tool kit. Checked owners manual and it turns out you have to order them separate if you want to remove a wheel



    My GT3 came with the pins. I don't think that is correct.

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    I suppose your dealer added them , my manual clearly states they are needed to remove a wheel but have to be ordered separate , same goes for the jack btw.
    But my dealer will have them by tomorrow so all is good.

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    Here to remove some myths that seem to thrive on PCCB discussions. I believe one should equip one's Porsche with the best brakes possible. The PCCBs are the best, for a variety of reasons, notwithstanding the lower unstrung weight, and higher maintenance intervals. Someone commented about having their PCCBs serviced at the Steel Brake prices. PCCB servicing will be LESS. What do you think that dust on your steeel braked wheels is cominig from? I get very little dust on my PCCBed wheels,--because I'm not grinding material off the rotors or the pads like they are on the steel ones. Also, I predict in time that PCCB parts will come down in price as they achieve some price breaks in manufacturing in quantity (once people learn how great they are).

    The guide pins are not included anymore with the 997s. They were on the 996s which came with PCCBs. You have to buy them,--and you want 2 for your car. I keep mine inside the tool kit (they fit fine) just like I keep the wheel key in there,--you never know when you're going to need them. Whether you have PCCB brakes or not you should spend the $20 and get two of these for any 997. The wheels are so massive that you need assistance taking them on and off.

    Changing wheels 3-5 times a year is not a LOT of wheel changes. You don't know what wheel changing is. It's not debatable,--just get those aluminum pins. (Don't waste your money on brass ones from Performance Products).

    The feel from the PCCBs are incredible. I woud dare say that the majority of naysayers to the PCCBs don't have the PCCBs and perhaps never even drove a car with them. I consider them one of the best investments I ever made for the car. If you wanted to save money buy a Honda. Hell, buy a Porsche and have them put drum brakes on if you want to save even more.

    Handling. Absolutely the best when you have PCCBs on your car. There IS a difference in there.

    Dan

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be

    "The feel from the PCCBs are incredible" YEP
    They are the best by far the std brakes are good do not get me wrong but the PCCB II are in a diff league. not only the stopping power but the unsprung weight makes a world of diff, just look at a race car i was always battling with unsprung weight at the wheels on oval race cars

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be

    Sorry to be ignorant, but why is reducing UNSPRUNG weight important?

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be

    Unsprung weight reduction means that you have less mass that you have to move to manuever your car,--in short, the car handles more responsively. If your wheels and brakes are massive and weigh a lot you have to fight that every time you turn the wheel when steering. With those areas lighter you can turn from lock to lock a lot faster with it fighting you less.

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be

    Quote:
    Pink Panther said:
    Sorry to be ignorant, but why is reducing UNSPRUNG weight important?

    As well as better handling , you get a better ride (if that's imortant to you). Less wieght also means better vehicle performance.

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be

    The big point of Unspung weight is damper and spring reaction times on race cars , the same is said of road car's , the less bounce weight ( unsprung Weight) the less work the suspension has to do to keep traction and correct tyre contact with the tarmac and to keep the car geometry correct , also as above response times to inputs are improved , not to mention 64 Kilos less weight on the car over all !! thats 2 big heavy suitcases ? worth another .1 or more sec's off you acc times across the range and less mass to stop If someone has there maths/physics hat on they could work out the mass to acc gains i guess ? but think i will leave that one to the porsche super cup guys or an F1 team !!. see last years test at the ring a PCCB II eqipped car as i remember it was 6 secs faster on the same rubber

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be

    Quote:
    Tboner said:
    The big point of Unspung weight is damper and spring reaction times on race cars , the same is said of road car's , the less bounce weight ( unsprung Weight) the less work the suspension has to do to keep traction and correct tyre contact with the tarmac and to keep the car geometry correct , also as above response times to inputs are improved , not to mention 64 Kilos less weight on the car over all !! thats 2 big heavy suitcases ? worth another .1 or more sec's off you acc times across the range and less mass to stop If someone has there maths/physics hat on they could work out the mass to acc gains i guess ? but think i will leave that one to the porsche super cup guys or an F1 team !!. see last years test at the ring a PCCB II eqipped car as i remember it was 6 secs faster on the same rubber



    Can you actually feel the difference in the suspension itself on the street in normal to spirited driving? What would you recommend for street use only?

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be

    Perhaps someone could answer this: If I'm never going to a track, why would I care about PCCB's? In other words, aside from the pimp-ness factor, in ordinary day-to-day driving it seems like the PCCB's are a rather expensive upgrade for incremental performance that normal people are unlikely to ever notice.

    In some ways it's like the disappointment voiced over 480 hp vs. 500 hp. Honestly, how big of a difference would that have made? It's not like this car is slow!

    I'm not trolling here, I'm truly curious about the real world effects noticed by normal drivers and not weekend racers. I mean, I get why you'd order LSD and sport chrono--they're not really that expensive. But the PCCB's are in a different league comparatively speaking--they're basically equivalent to an entire carbon fiber treatment or a set of GT3 wheels.

    Opinions appreciated.

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be

    Quote:
    saunderscc said:
    Perhaps someone could answer this: If I'm never going to a track, why would I care about PCCB's? In other words, aside from the pimp-ness factor, in ordinary day-to-day driving it seems like the PCCB's are a rather expensive upgrade for incremental performance that normal people are unlikely to ever notice.

    In some ways it's like the disappointment voiced over 480 hp vs. 500 hp. Honestly, how big of a difference would that have made? It's not like this car is slow!

    I'm not trolling here, I'm truly curious about the real world effects noticed by normal drivers and not weekend racers. I mean, I get why you'd order LSD and sport chrono--they're not really that expensive. But the PCCB's are in a different league comparatively speaking--they're basically equivalent to an entire carbon fiber treatment or a set of GT3 wheels.

    Opinions appreciated.



    You're not really equating PCCBs with cosmetics such as a fake CF interior and wheels from a cheaper model, are you? Having PCCBs reduces unsprung weight, which means better ride, faster acceleration, better braking (by virtue of less weight, without the whole carbon-ceramic thing thing) and better handling. The brake feel is also supposedly better as well as modulation. Ask everybody here who has got them - there isn't a single person regretting their decision.

    So, when buying; 1. Sport Chrono, 2. LSD, 3. PCCB, then and only then everything else.

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be

    I have the PCCB and second Crash's comments above. The pedal feel is so amazing that steel brakes feel defective. I have PCCB in my GT3, and steel in my C2S cab, the difference is night and day. I'd never consider another new Porsche without PCCB. I'd get them over any option. Again, agree with Crash, Sport Chrono, PCCB and LSD, then whatever you want. I'd also get adaptive sport seats.

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be

    Quote:
    hatchback said:
    Can you actually feel the difference in the suspension itself on the street in normal to spirited driving? What would you recommend for street use only?



    Let's put aside "pedal feel" for a minute. Does anyone here really believe they can tell the difference between PCCB and Steel in a double blind test purely from the behavior of the suspension in regular or spirited street driving?

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be

    Quote:
    hatchback said:
    Quote:
    hatchback said:
    Can you actually feel the difference in the suspension itself on the street in normal to spirited driving? What would you recommend for street use only?



    Let's put aside "pedal feel" for a minute. Does anyone here really believe they can tell the difference between PCCB and Steel in a double blind test purely from the behavior of the suspension in regular or spirited street driving?



    Probably couldn't tell on the "street". But thena gain, if that is all the driving you do, you're getting the wrong car. If you drive on twisty roads, then yes, you will notice it, even without the pedal feel. After all, it's 25 kilograms less unsprung weight, which is a relatively high percentage of the total unsprung weight.

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be

    I have the PCCB on mine and echo the comments of others who have nothing but accolades. However, in playing devil's advocate, I have to say that it's a bit unnerving in the wet especially after you've been driving for a bit because the initial "bite" can seem like it's not there. One gets into the habit of lightly "tapping" the brakes beforehand to "prep" the brakes as a result. However, in the "dry" these brakes REALLY are killer.

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be

    Quote:
    atomic80 said:
    I have the PCCB on mine and echo the comments of others who have nothing but accolades. However, in playing devil's advocate, I have to say that it's a bit unnerving in the wet especially after you've been driving for a bit because the initial "bite" can seem like it's not there. One gets into the habit of lightly "tapping" the brakes beforehand to "prep" the brakes as a result. However, in the "dry" these brakes REALLY are killer.



    I agree with Jason. Also reaction time on very low ambiente temperature is slower then on normal brakes(little bit).

    BUT, unsprung weight advantage... Hmm... Only if the driver is not too heavy! I am 75kg's so, in Turbo with normal brakes complete weight with driver will be around 1675kg and put 100kg driver in Turbo with PCCBs and you will get total weight(for that Turbo) of around 1685kg... So, real life advantage of PCCBs regarding unsprung weight is depending very much on driver's weight as well...

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be

    yes you sure can tell the diff on the road / street even under moderate speed driving esp on slightly uneven road surfaces, and you sure can if you were blind, deaf and dumb tell the diff when you touch the brake pedal oh and a really nice side effect of PCCB next to no NO BRAKE DUST its like having self cleaning wheels and arch's' and no more acidic brake dust down the side of the car on that lovely polished paintwork that i am sure we all have! you really need to drive both cars with and without to understand what is being said here the irons are good at stopping you but the PCCB II is in a diff league and you will not be shelling out for pads and discs every 20k at Pounds1100 for the fronts, also my dealer service manager tells me before some un-educated comment is made, 50 + cars sold with PCCB since the launch of them, only 2 sets of pads on all these cars ever had to be done. One thing to remember with them is if you change wheels be very careful not to chip the disc's with the wheels you should use wheel service pins which are dirt cheap anyway.

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be

    does not matter if your car driver is 200 kilo's you still have a gross of minus 60 + kilo's when you are driving any car laden or unladen

    Also the weight of the driver has abs no bearing on un-sprung weight as the weight of the car before the shocks has nothing to do with " Un-sprung Weight" un-sprung weight is the weight after the dampers IE control arms , wishbones and the heavy brake rotors , callipers and wheels and tyres etc. imagine trying to leaver a door with a crowbar that is 300 mm long do the same with a 900mm bar its a lot easier with far less effort because of the length of the bar and the weight transfer to the tip of it , imagine the same on your cars suspension at its tips less weight less load on the dampers and less weight to control so reaction time is a lot lot faster for the spring and dampers

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    So, when buying; 1. Sport Chrono, 2. LSD, 3. PCCB, then and only then everything else.



    100% Correct

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    Quote:
    Dan L said:
    notwithstanding the lower unstrung weight, and Dan



    yes, they come with no strings attached ... this time

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be

    Quote:
    993S said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    So, when buying; 1. Sport Chrono, 2. LSD, 3. PCCB, then and only then everything else.



    100% Correct



    Spoken by a man with experience!

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be

    Thanks for the explanation on the relevance of unsprung weight.

    Bluehinder, how does the front bobbing compare between GT3 and C2S? If PCCB makes the front of the car lighter than it already is, does this result in noticable more bobbing?

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be

    less

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be

    There's a favorite road of mine here in Santa Barbara (old San Marcos Pass) that was recently redone in fresh asphalt. It's a serious collection of switchbacks and the UNSPRUNG weight issue really is apparent. I used to drive that road all the time in my normal iron-braked Porsches. There is a vivid difference in the handling. You don't have to be an expert to feel the difference,--it is there.

    Dan

     
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