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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    You are right. It was featured on the Prelude.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Yes the 928 and 993 had this passive set up too. Not sure how aggressive it was bust suggest under half a degree. Im aware of no modern RWD production car that uses active RWS


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    lor:

    No NSX does not have it, and i believe 850 and 300ZX have passive setup, wheels are turned slightly due to cornering foreces, that is not 4ws

     Do not know about the NSX and the 300 ZX but the 850 CSI is not a passive setup. The Aktive Hinterachs-Kinematik (AHK) of the 850 CSI had a hydraulic system . Turns the rear wheels (above approx. 40 km/h) in the same direction as the fronts. The system was developed on the Nurburgring.


    --

    911 Club Coupe, 993 4S Riviera Blau, 12' Audi S4 Avant


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I was refering to normal 850i not Csi,i dont remember 4ws on that car,and didnt know CSI had it,so my point is invalid Porsche is not the first...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I think Porsche's passive system in the 928 countered toe changes in the rear under certain cornering conditions to reduce oversteer in response to chassis/wheel forces. It did not change rear wheel steering angles according to speed and steering wheel position to do what the new system does for handling dynamics.  


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Mitsubishi had it with AWD...

    http://www.autozine.org/Archive/Mitsubishi/classic/GTO.html

     


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    lor:

    I was refering to normal 850i not Csi,i dont remember 4ws on that car,and didnt know CSI had it,so my point is invalid Porsche is not the first...

    Interesting that all of you forgot latest BMW 5 series...

    http://www.bmw.de/de/neufahrzeuge/5er/limousine/2013/fahrdynamik.html#integralaktivlenkung

    So called integralaktivlenkung is available from 2011 on 5 series as an option for RWD models only.

    http://www.bmw.de/de/footer/publications-links/technology-guide/aktivlenkung.html


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    reginos:

    You are right. It was featured on the Prelude.

     

    Honda Prelude seems to be the frist production car that had active (mechanical) 4-wheel steering in 1987 (damn... I wasn't even born! Smiley)
    Nissan MID-4 concept car had also 4wd and active 4ws back in 1985... But it never got into production.
     

    --

    I'm just another female petrolhead :)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    ag23:

    My concern with the standard steel brakes is that on my Carrera S the rotor looks so tiny in comparison to the rim...

    will the GT3 ones (steel) fill the rim more?  The PCCB's look like they fill it up almost completely and aesthetically that looks great!  

    The rotors on the PCCBS's are significantly larger - 30mm front and 10mm rear, I think


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    KresoF1:
    lor:

    I was refering to normal 850i not Csi,i dont remember 4ws on that car,and didnt know CSI had it,so my point is invalid Porsche is not the first...

    Interesting that all of you forgot latest BMW 5 series...

    http://www.bmw.de/de/neufahrzeuge/5er/limousine/2013/fahrdynamik.html#integralaktivlenkung

    So called integralaktivlenkung is available from 2011 on 5 series as an option for RWD models only.

    http://www.bmw.de/de/footer/publications-links/technology-guide/aktivlenkung.html

    7-series had it before 5-series.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    nberry:

    You don't need PCCB's. If Porsche felt they were necessary for the overall performance of the car they would have made them standard.

    That is not sound reasoning when it comes to Porsche.  Some options have been critical to realizing the performance potential of Porsche over the years (i.e. Sport Chrono on the turbocharged cars for Overboost and LSD on some others, -20mm Sport Suspension, some would say PDK for some models, etc.).

    PCCB's are totally different (and hopefully for the better) this time around.  Not only are they HUGE, they also have a reformulated rotor mixture by some accounts (even look very different on their surface, afaik).


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Ziggy:
    KresoF1:
    lor:

    I was refering to normal 850i not Csi,i dont remember 4ws on that car,and didnt know CSI had it,so my point is invalid Porsche is not the first...

    Interesting that all of you forgot latest BMW 5 series...

    http://www.bmw.de/de/neufahrzeuge/5er/limousine/2013/fahrdynamik.html#integralaktivlenkung

    So called integralaktivlenkung is available from 2011 on 5 series as an option for RWD models only.

    http://www.bmw.de/de/footer/publications-links/technology-guide/aktivlenkung.html

    7-series had it before 5-series.

    Thanks for the correction.Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Grant:
    nberry:

    You don't need PCCB's. If Porsche felt they were necessary for the overall performance of the car they would have made them standard.

    That is not sound reasoning when it comes to Porsche.  Some options have been critical to realizing the performance potential of Porsche over the years (i.e. Sport Chrono on the turbocharged cars for Overboost and LSD on some others, -20mm Sport Suspension, some would say PDK for some models, etc.).

    PCCB's are totally different (and hopefully for the better) this time around.  Not only are they HUGE, they also have a reformulated rotor mixture by some accounts (even look very different on their surface, afaik).


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

    New PCCBs are unfortunately not any lighter then standard brakes. In fact I heard that they are marginally heavier...Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Grant:
    nberry:

    You don't need PCCB's. If Porsche felt they were necessary for the overall performance of the car they would have made them standard.

    That is not sound reasoning when it comes to Porsche.  Some options have been critical to realizing the performance potential of Porsche over the years (i.e. Sport Chrono on the turbocharged cars for Overboost and LSD on some others, -20mm Sport Suspension, some would say PDK for some models, etc.).


    Indeed! Nick, that is one hilarious comment and you should know better as you are well aware of Porsche´s pricing strategy. And just consider, how many performance-related options Porsche deliberately puts into test cars...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    reginos:
    lor:

    I was just thinking about 4WS, yes japanese have used it before but only on FWD and 4Wd cars to simulate agility of a RWD car...Porsche is first to use it on RWD car,correct me if im wrong but i cant remember any other such car

    I think the Honda NSX, mid engine RWD had it too.

    Mitsubishi 3000GT was one of the first to have 4WD.

    J.Seven


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    3000GTO is from the 90ies,Honda Prelude and Mazda 626 had it in the 80ies,one had electronic the other one fully mechanical system,forgot which one was it though


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Ferdie:
    Grant:
    nberry:

    You don't need PCCB's. If Porsche felt they were necessary for the overall performance of the car they would have made them standard.

    That is not sound reasoning when it comes to Porsche.  Some options have been critical to realizing the performance potential of Porsche over the years (i.e. Sport Chrono on the turbocharged cars for Overboost and LSD on some others, -20mm Sport Suspension, some would say PDK for some models, etc.).


    Indeed! Nick, that is one hilarious comment and you should know better as you are well aware of Porsche´s pricing strategy. And just consider, how many performance-related options Porsche deliberately puts into test cars...

    Both Ferrari and Porsche (GT3) opted to used double clutch transmissions as standard because of the performance value. No doubt the PDK-S cost was incorporated into the GT3 final price. Porsche lost nothing by making it standard.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Porsche 991 GT3 First Drive Review by Pete Stout...

    Porsche-991-GT3-reveiew_PCA-Pete-Stout_01.jpg

    Porsche-991-GT3-reveiew_PCA-Pete-Stout_02.jpg

    Porsche-991-GT3-reveiew_PCA-Pete-Stout_03.jpg

    Porsche-991-GT3-reveiew_PCA-Pete-Stout_04.jpg

    Porsche-991-GT3-reveiew_PCA-Pete-Stout_05.jpg

    Porsche-991-GT3-reveiew_PCA-Pete-Stout_06.jpg

    Porsche-991-GT3-reveiew_PCA-Pete-Stout_07.jpg

    ...all due credit to Pete Stout at Panorama (Official Magazine of Porsche Club of America) and Porsche! Smiley

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I was not the fastest, but I was the most involved.  Convince Porsche that the faithful will accept that without a grumble and maybe they will offer a manual in the GT3.  They made the best package they could with the technology available and it did not include a MT.  MT has joined drum brakes in the march of time.  It maybe lamentable, but that's why old Porsches are so attractive. 


    --

    "Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I was the slowest but I tried the hardest with my stick!


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    That piece reminds me of Kreso's post relaying what his Porsche source is saying, which is that this MT obsession is solely driven by U.S. and U.K. Press.  This is nothing more than a "loud minority".


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Ziggy:

    That piece reminds me of Kreso's post relaying what his Porsche source is saying, which is that this MT obsession is solely driven by U.S. and U.K. Press.  This is nothing more than a "loud minority".

    .....and those who read and believe.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    macca993:

    The GT3 used for the track test was on the Dunlop Sport Maxx Race tyre. It's an extreme tyre but also better in the wet than the old Cup+ fitted to 997 GT3 (which in turn is way better in the wet than the first Cup tyre that was fitted to the M3 CSL). Prueninger told me the the Michelin Pilot Cup 2 (which was fitted to the red car in Germany) is a bit quicker in dry conditions but that he'd choose the Dunlop for the UK. Both offer better wet performance than Cup+. These are the only two tyres offered on the 991 GT3. 

    Thank you very much for those info!

    I asked my dealer to get my GT3 with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 but he told me there are not yet available in Porsche options... :(


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    igirl:
    macca993:

    The GT3 used for the track test was on the Dunlop Sport Maxx Race tyre. It's an extreme tyre but also better in the wet than the old Cup+ fitted to 997 GT3 (which in turn is way better in the wet than the first Cup tyre that was fitted to the M3 CSL). Prueninger told me the the Michelin Pilot Cup 2 (which was fitted to the red car in Germany) is a bit quicker in dry conditions but that he'd choose the Dunlop for the UK. Both offer better wet performance than Cup+. These are the only two tyres offered on the 991 GT3. 

    Thank you very much for those info!

    I asked my dealer to get my GT3 with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 but he told me there are not yet available in Porsche options... :

    In the UK at least, I have been informed that 80% of cars will have the Michelins and 20% will get the Dunlops...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Can anyone give us more feedback about Ferrari vs Porsche (CCB) brakes ? Ferrari doesn't even bother to do steels anymore, only Porsche does both for some unknown reasons, being the PCCB can't handle all the abuse around the track, are Ferrari owners having issues too at the track ? Smiley

    http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/anything-goes/are-carbon-ceramic-brakes-rip


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Marketing?? I guess that's the only true reason they do it that way. Porsche's marketing department is IMO one of the best in the automotive industry (from a business POV that is, especially their business POV...Smiley)

    Or..... maybe because they know that some of their possible customers like red calipers more than yellow....SmileySmiley


    --

    I'm just another female petrolhead :)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Perhaps a cracked ceramic rotor is less a financial concern for a Ferrari owner than a Porsche owner??


    --

    "Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I drove a PCCB equipped Cayman S once on a mountainous route and the feel of the brakes was excellent and better than standard. But OTOH Porsche steel brakes never let anyone down.

    However, I wouldn't pay the extra cost if it was my car. The main advantage I saw was the substantial reduction in unsprung weight emanating from the ceramics. This advantage has been negated on the new GT3 because the ceramic  rotors are larger than the steel ones.

    if Porsche offered ceramics as standard the substantial additional cost would have been included in the basic price inflating it further. Ferrari only sell super expensive cars, so another 5 or 10K is neither here nor there.

    Porsche customers would definitely get into long pro/anti PCCB discussions, as is the case now with the standard PDK in the GT3.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    ag23:

    My concern with the standard steel brakes is that on my Carrera S the rotor looks so tiny in comparison to the rim...

    will the GT3 ones (steel) fill the rim more?  The PCCB's look like they fill it up almost completely and aesthetically that looks great!  

    I do not understand why so many people seem to hate PCCB. It is a great option to have and not only because of looks.

    The ONLY two reasons I would not choose PCCB are: I cannot afford it or I track race my car very often. If none of these points applies to you, go for it, you won't regret it.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Ziggy:

    That piece reminds me of Kreso's post relaying what his Porsche source is saying, which is that this MT obsession is solely driven by U.S. and U.K. Press.  This is nothing more than a "loud minority".

    Mostly US I think. I am in the US right now and got in an argument with a few guys at the pool about manual vs. PDK (they saw a Porsche t-shirt I was wearing and outed themselves as Porsche nuts). In my very passionate conversation with them (mostly in their 20s and 30s), one argument came up over and over again..."only good drivers can drive stick". Spoiler alert, guys...in Europe, every girl and old woman can drive stick. Smiley This is nothing special, unless you live in a country where most cars have auto transmissions and people just never learned to drive stick. So if people think they are special because they know how to drive stick...they're not. It is difficult to get this out of the heads of people but since I understand the background and the different (car) life in the US, I am not surprised at all. It is a mentality think, same as young people from allover the US coming to Vegas, wearing short skirts (women) they can barely move in and getting drunk until they throw up. Traditions. Smiley

    Please don't get me wrong, I am not trying to bash the US here, we have our own cadavers in the closet in Europe but I really think this is a mentality thing. Porsche is doing the right thing by NOT giving in to the manual crowd because if they need to compromise over and over again, they cannot actually build the cars they want to build. For those who still want manual, there are other options. Sadly not from Porsche, at least not newer models.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


     
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