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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    You guy's just don't get it. EV's are a tool nothing more. The days of spending money on extravagant interiors and stylish designs are coming to an end. This all about getting to point A to point B in the most efficient manner. 

    Furthermore, because the zeitgeist is changing, you'll see car ownership fall. Get on board gentlemen, the revolution is here.kiss


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    Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    nberry:

    You guy's just don't get it. EV's are a tool nothing more. The days of spending money on extravagant interiors and stylish designs are coming to an end. This all about getting to point A to point B in the most efficient manner. 

    Furthermore, because the zeitgeist is changing, you'll see car ownership fall. Get on board gentlemen, the revolution is here.kiss


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    Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.

     

     

    That's what big brother wants. Imagine all cars are EV, and connected at all times. And monitored at all times. The system sees you speed, ran a red light, ran a yellow, didn't do a complete stop at stop signs, didn't signal for lane change, touch your phone, etc.

    They can issue you fines right there on your touch screen, payable with Apple Pay or something, and if you don't pay, your car doors are automatically locked and becomes a virtual prison until you pay.

    Heck, with the forceful push for voice control, the microphones are also ears-dropping too, listening to see if you are anti-government or planning anything criminal, and with car tracking the police can be waiting for you at your next stop or the car itself will drive straight to a police station.

    Still like autonomous self driving vehicles or connected vehicles?

    Slowly but surely people's freedom is being taken away and the population doesn't even noticed and got tricked into embracing it.


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Carlos from Spain:
    schmoell:

    Electric power is provided by a big diesel engine that runs day and night according that article.

    The irony SmileySmileySmiley

    Why not just make a diesel Tesla... Would be far cheaper. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:

    That's what big brother wants. Imagine all cars are EV, and connected at all times. And monitored at all times. The system sees you speed, ran a red light, ran a yellow, didn't do a complete stop at stop signs, didn't signal for lane change, touch your phone, etc.

    They can issue you fines right there on your touch screen, payable with Apple Pay or something, and if you don't pay, your car doors are automatically locked and becomes a virtual prison until you pay.

    Heck, with the forceful push for voice control, the microphones are also ears-dropping too, listening to see if you are anti-government or planning anything criminal, and with car tracking the police can be waiting for you at your next stop or the car itself will drive straight to a police station.

    Still like autonomous self driving vehicles or connected vehicles?

    Slowly but surely people's freedom is being taken away and the population doesn't even noticed and got tricked into embracing it.

    Perfectly framed dystopia.  Seems like it's on the way.  It may be as simple as excess speed "earns" you negative social credits that can be reversed by appropriate virtue signaling.


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    Mike

    918 Spyder + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    As society grows, individual freedoms are subsumed in the interest of public good. It is as it should be. I remember the hue and cry over forcing drivers to wear seat belts or forcing car manufacturers to install catalytic converters.

    Today who among us would drive a car without a seat belt or want to follow a car without a catalytic converter?


    --

    Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    dystopian: relating to or denoting an imagined state or society where there is great suffering or injustice

    The dystopian society is all of the untrained and unskilled a-hole drivers on US roads today. The well monitored future traffic scenario will be a bloody relief.

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:
    nberry:

    You guy's just don't get it. EV's are a tool nothing more. The days of spending money on extravagant interiors and stylish designs are coming to an end. This all about getting to point A to point B in the most efficient manner. 

    Furthermore, because the zeitgeist is changing, you'll see car ownership fall. Get on board gentlemen, the revolution is here.kiss


    --

     

    Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.

     

     

    That's what big brother wants. Imagine all cars are EV, and connected at all times. And monitored at all times. The system sees you speed, ran a red light, ran a yellow, didn't do a complete stop at stop signs, didn't signal for lane change, touch your phone, etc.

    They can issue you fines right there on your touch screen, payable with Apple Pay or something, and if you don't pay, your car doors are automatically locked and becomes a virtual prison until you pay.

    Heck, with the forceful push for voice control, the microphones are also ears-dropping too, listening to see if you are anti-government or planning anything criminal, and with car tracking the police can be waiting for you at your next stop or the car itself will drive straight to a police station.

    Still like autonomous self driving vehicles or connected vehicles?

    Slowly but surely people's freedom is being taken away and the population doesn't even noticed and got tricked into embracing it.

    I have no doubt that this is where we are heading. Much faster than people think. Very few giving value to individual freedom...until they loose it.

    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Ben Franklin


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    And I am neither drunk nor crazy when I wrote that.

    And if individual freedom is secondary, why bother with democracy. 

    An emperor would surely make better choices than the population, 

    King Trump? Or King Obama anyone? 

    Seriously, seat belts are for safety, very different story than missing a shoulder check on lane change or failing to do a complete stop on a stop sign when the next car around is 30 miles away.

    You know, history is repeating itself. Rome was a Republic for the longest time, then Augustus Caesar happens. 

    We really doesn't have to look far, the man made global warming thing is a blinking warning already. 

    The proof for that is't even solid, the science still don't make sense when there are at least half a million variables remains. Doesn't matter, peoples' rights are secondary when a politician wants to advance his agenda. 

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:
    Slowly but surely people's freedom is being taken away and the population doesn't even noticed and got tricked into embracing it.

    A majority of the population is actually really dumb enough to embrace it because they think this is the future and a good thing for the environment and whatnot. Smiley

    To understand the dumbness of the population, I give you an example from Germany: The government already proposed serious price increases for energy (prices, taxes, etc.) in the name of climate change and most of the people I talked to actually embrace and applaud it. Smiley Like sheep, they just regurgitate what they hear/see on the radio/TV and if the government does something like that, it must be for a sound reason, right? Smiley

    What the heck, I think that if the German government would raise VAT by 10% (we currently have 19%) for the sake of the environment, the majority of the population would support it. Smiley I think German politicians are just too dumb to realize it. Smiley

    Bottom line is: Mass transportation through non-individually controlled EVs would save governments billions in infrastructure cost, not to mention traffic control (police, etc.) and other things. It would also allow companies to have a great control over the habits and movements of people, which is worth gold for the advertisement industry (I am not surprised at all that Google is working on a self-driving car...). Governments on the other hand would also have it much easier to control the population, mostly movement and habits but like you said, eaves-dropping would be a piece of cake with this kind of technology, locating individuals in a second as well.

    The individual person is not important anymore (has it ever been?), what counts is the environment and the community of people.

    We are moving towards an Orwellian type of world and we don't seem to realize it. Everything under the name of climate change and climate protection, which makes this whole thing even more weird. 

    Again let's take Germany as an example for the current absurdity of things: The government is currently in the process of destroying the German car industry slowly but steadily (of course VW played an unfortunate role in this). Nobody really wants EVs in Germany, nobody really buys them (market share is around 1.2% in Germany) but the media and the political parties are painting a very negative picture of current cars and manufacturers. The German car industry is not in a crisis because they missed the EV revolution (which doesn't really exist, not even in the US), the German car industry is in a crisis because of the VW scandal, the lack of government pressure and the lack of VW and other manufacturers to compensate customers in a proper way and to apologize. The whole car industry is heavily damaged because of a few leadership mistakes, because of the lack of political pressure and the lack of the media to understand that EVs are not a solution but right now just another issue, especially with rising energy prices in Germany and other parts of Europe. Merkel ordered nuclear power plants to be shut down, she put her money on renewable energy, mostly from wind power and now the first wind power companies are close to bankruptcy or close down because many Germans sue them when they want to build a wind turbines because they say the wind turbines have a negative impact on how nature looks or they make too much noise at night. Meaning: We have no nuclear power, we have less and less wind power, solar energy isn't really a thing in Germany, so where does the energy come from? Oh right, the A/C outlet. Smiley

    Europe is in a big mess right now when it comes to climate change and energy and I'm afraid that this mess will be exploited by extremist parties and organizations to change how things are running here. It already started, this whole German "Umwelthilfe" success is shocking and worrying at the same time. A minority tries and succeeds imposing bans and stricter regulations on a majority. Unbelievable.  


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    why are we discussing politics?


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Carlos from Spain:

    why are we discussing politics?

    Oops... Smiley My bad, got carried away. Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Carlos from Spain:

    why are we discussing politics?

    This is not politics. It’s philosophy. 

    When you have seven billion people packed on 1/3 of the earth something has got to give.Even the ancient Greek’s understood that and they had less than a couple of million to live with. Smiley


    --

    Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    nberry:
    Carlos from Spain:

    why are we discussing politics?

    This is not politics. It’s philosophy. 

    When you have seven billion people packed on 1/3 of the earth something has got to give.Even the ancient Greek’s understood that and they had less than a couple of million to live with. Smiley

     

    We need Thanos and his glove. Smiley

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:

    We need Thanos and his glove. Smiley

     

     

    ... and who has to jump from the cliffs? ..... PORSCHE Smiley


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    RC:

    We have no nuclear power, we have less and less wind power, solar energy isn't really a thing in Germany, so where does the energy come from? 

    The energy will come from Russia via the Nord Stream II Pipeline soon... ;)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Well, that raises certain political issues!  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Sidney:
    Whoopsy:

    We need Thanos and his glove. Smiley

     

     

    ... and who has to jump from the cliffs? ..... PORSCHE Smiley

     

    I am pretty sure Elon will do it. He already said his companies are not for making money, but for the greater good of people.

    More candidates would be those global warming scientists. I mean, they are so 'noble' about their 'mission' and says that they are not doing it for money and fame, I am sure all those scientists will be lining up to volunteer to jump if they really are that noble. If all goes to plan we might need a letter system to pick the candidates since there will be so many.

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    boytronic:
    RC:

    We have no nuclear power, we have less and less wind power, solar energy isn't really a thing in Germany, so where does the energy come from? 

    The energy will come from Russia via the Nord Stream II Pipeline soon... ;)

    Smiley  Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

     

    Star analyst says Tesla model lineup will triple … sort of

    When Morgan Stanley analyst Adam Jonas speaks, Tesla (TSLA) investors and followers listen.

    On Thursday, Jonas came out with a note claiming Tesla could more than triple its model lineup over the next 5 years. But what Jonas isn’t saying is that Tesla will have 9 total models compared to the 3 it has out right now. He’s talking about multiplying its segment coverage  with additional models, thus tripling its lineup footprint.

    What he means is this: Jonas notes that using industry data, the Model 3, Model X, and Model S occupy segments that total around 5.8% of total vehicle sales in the U.S. And two new models will more than triple that segment coverage.

    The Model Y, Tesla’s upcoming “small premium SUV” as Jonas calls it, will itself address 3.4% of U.S. light vehicle sales, or nearly 60% of Tesla’s current sector coverage on its own. The Model Y is expected to be released sometime next year. Of course, with Tesla, deadlines are a squirrelly thing — the company and CEO Elon Musk don’t exactly adhere to them on a regular basis.

    The big segment buster is the pickup. The full-sized and mid-sized pickup truck market accounts for 17.7% of all U.S. light vehicle sales, and Jonas estimates pickup sales are “over 20% of U.S. revenues and well over 50% of US auto profit.” It’s a big opportunity here, and that’s why Elon Musk is so hot on that ‘cyberpunk’ Tesla pickup he teased over 2 years ago.

    Add that 17.7% to the 3.4% coming from the small premium SUV market, and voilà  — Tesla has tripled its model lineup segment, but not its actual model lineup, if you will. Jonas is sort of pulling a fast one here on the lay public, but his case makes sense.

    Now back to Musk. The Tesla CEO says the pickup will likely debut in November; it’s anyone’s guess when it actually will be revealed. And even if Musk shows his shiny new pickup, the next questions will inevitably be (1) timeframe for release, and (2) where will it be built.

    Tesla says it is prepping the Fremont, California, factory for production of the Model Y SUV, but no vehicles are being built as of yet. Recall this is Tesla’s main factory that is at such a state of overcapacity that Tesla had to build an outdoor tent to increase production.

    Color me a little skeptical as to the Tesla pickup coming anytime in the next 2 years. That being said, Jonas’s note does lay out a positive case for the automaker to expand its footprint — especially with the Model Y — and compete with the likes of BMW (BMW.DE) and Audi (VOW.DE) — who will soon be big electric carmakers of their own.

    Pras Subramanian is a senior producer and reporter for Yahoo Finance. You can follow him on Twitterand on Instagram.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Jonas is literally the worse analyst ever. He literally will turn anything into a bull case for Tesla. Literally is is oblivious to anything real world.  He lives in fantasy land. 


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Agree.  Did find the market size figures informative and my takeaway is Tesla has focused on the wrong parts of the market.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    It's great to have plans for brand extensions, but Tesla still hasn't addressed their working capital issues. Free cash flow is still a significant issue for them. 


    --

    2016 Porsche 991 Carrera GTS  Black with AeroKit Cup Package,  2017 Porsche Cayenne Platinum  Purpurite Metallic, New York


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Maybe it is time for Tesla to team up with a major car manufacturer? The question is: Who would be that? 


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    The other question is - What company would buy Tesla or make a significant investment with Musk still in the CEO seat?


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    2016 Porsche 991 Carrera GTS  Black with AeroKit Cup Package,  2017 Porsche Cayenne Platinum  Purpurite Metallic, New York


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    bobr:

    The other question is - What company would buy Tesla or make a significant investment with Musk still in the CEO seat?

    Musk is a visionary, not necessarily a bad thing but maybe he needs to take a step back...not completely back but a little bit. Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    RC:

    Maybe it is time for Tesla to team up with a major car manufacturer? The question is: Who would be that? 

     

    Despite what the internet is saying, VAG and Tesla isn't a good fit. VAG already have more advanced EV tech, they have no need for Tesla. But Tesla certainly wanted to be associated with Porsche to gain some cachet. 

    The major Japanese manufacturers like Toyota and Honda are not putting their eggs in the EV side yet, they have more faith in hydrogen fuel cells.

    Nissan already have the best selling EV, Leaf, why would they want Tesla?

    Mazda don't really have the money.

    Mercedes have a pipeline packed, they also don't need Tesla. 

    Renault already have partnership with Nissan and Mitsubishi, that also rules them all out.

    Citroen/Peugeot already have Chinese investors plus the French government, they won't like partnering with Tesla.

    GM/Ford/Chrysler won't be interested in saving Tesla, they are in enough trouble already.

    That leaves BMW.

    BMW actually would be a good fit to a Tesla partnership. They were first out of the gate with the i3, but it would seems like it's an afterthought and the group really don't pay much attention to it. They also don't have much if at all in the pipeline for EV products. They certainly have the money in the bank to help Tesla though. 

    On the flip side, no one would want Tesla at the current hyper-inflated stock price. it's market cap is almost there with BMW, who in their right mind would pay such a premium? Once Tesla's stock price drop down to around $100-$120, then there will be some talks or even action. A deal price of $120 including premium would be a very fair price for a merger or a buyout. 


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Tesla will either partner with one of the major Chinese automakers or will be completely acquired by one of those companies.  Musk's deal with the Chinese government to fund Gigafactory 3 set the basis for such a transaction.  Musk needs to jettison the remnants of Solar City and take the massive restructuring loss but he won't take the move based on his lucrative compensation scheme to drive up the market cap of the company.  

    BMW remains a better fit with either Honda or PSA.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    CGX car nut:

    Tesla will either partner with one of the major Chinese automakers or will be completely acquired by one of those companies.  Musk's deal with the Chinese government to fund Gigafactory 3 set the basis for such a transaction.  Musk needs to jettison the remnants of Solar City and take the massive restructuring loss but he won't take the move based on his lucrative compensation scheme to drive up the market cap of the company.  

    BMW remains a better fit with either Honda or PSA.  

    In the downside scenario where Tesla goes through a financial restructuring, there is a risk that Gigafactory 3 is seized by the local Chinese banks funding the deal through secured loans, effectively allowing the Chinese government to take control of a new EV manufacturing facility without having to acquire the whole company... Smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Boxster Coupe GTS:
    CGX car nut:

    Tesla will either partner with one of the major Chinese automakers or will be completely acquired by one of those companies.  Musk's deal with the Chinese government to fund Gigafactory 3 set the basis for such a transaction.  Musk needs to jettison the remnants of Solar City and take the massive restructuring loss but he won't take the move based on his lucrative compensation scheme to drive up the market cap of the company.  

    BMW remains a better fit with either Honda or PSA.  

    In the downside scenario where Tesla goes through a financial restructuring, there is a risk that Gigafactory 3 is seized by the local Chinese banks funding the deal through secured loans, effectively allowing the Chinese government to take control of a new EV manufacturing facility without having to acquire the whole company... Smiley

    Didn’t want to be that negative but that is absolutely correct and a plausible outcome.  Musk’s lucrative compensation plan will blind him to avoid any reasonable acquisition transaction.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    CGX car nut:

    Tesla will either partner with one of the major Chinese automakers or will be completely acquired by one of those companies.  Musk's deal with the Chinese government to fund Gigafactory 3 set the basis for such a transaction.  Musk needs to jettison the remnants of Solar City and take the massive restructuring loss but he won't take the move based on his lucrative compensation scheme to drive up the market cap of the company.  

    BMW remains a better fit with either Honda or PSA.  

     

    Funny thing is, us Chinese are even more stringent with money than the Jews+Indians combined, the only scenario where Chinese money will buy Tesla will be when their stock price is around $40. And will not assume any debt.

    Everyone hates doing business with Jews, and the only people the Jews hates dealing with are the Chinese Smiley We clean them up always.

    The only merger/partnership I see PSA can do is with the other French car maker, Renault. No one in their right mind would want to have the French government as a partner/stake holder. The laziness will drive the Germans crazy.

    No one really benefits in a BMW/Honda partnership. They aren't a natural fit. Neither is in need of money, while not top sellers, both companies' cars are selling well worldwide, both are active in motorsports, neither are really doing much in EV even when BMW is racing in Formula E. Maybe Honda would gain something at the very top of the market in Rolls Royce, but Rolls Royce got nothing to gain by using a Honda 4 banger. 

    Like after seriously look around the market place, the only sensible partnership/merger is BMW with Tesla. 


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