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    New 991 Turbo/Turbo S - If you could change them...what would you want?

    First customer cars go into production end of August, so here is my question to people interested in getting the 991 Turbo/Turbo S: What would you have done differently if you were head of development and what changes would you like to see before the car goes into production? Please try to be reasonable, no "I want 700 horses and a 350 kph Vmax" or similar stuff. Just some suggestions based on what we know so far about the new Turbo/Turbo S and what improvements Porsche should make before they actually start to deliver cars to customers.

    Shoot... Smiley

    Let me be the first:

    Power

    Although power isn't everything, I think that Porsche should have given the new Turbo 530 hp and the new Turbo S 580 hp. The incentive to go for the new model should be higher and the gap between both models should be at least 50 hp. At small technical difference like different intakes or whatever would have helped to (psychologically) sustain the higher price tag for the Turbo S. Also would it have killed Porsche to change the look of the engine bay of the Turbo S a little bit, like for example using a carbon plate with the Turbo S logo on it? It looks as if they haven't cared at all.

    I also wonder why Porsche cannot make the overboost permanent, for example when the throttle is fully applied only.

    Performance

    0-100 kph in 2.9 seconds and 0-200 kph in 9.9 seconds for the Turbo S would have been acceptable on paper. Vmax should have been 320 kph, would it have killed Porsche to make it 320? Kind of a psychological thing but still, 320 sounds better than 318 kph. Also the performance difference between the "old" 997 Turbo S and the new one seems to be marginal at best, which is a shame. Especially since the new Turbo S also got substantially more expensive now.

    Interior

    Would it have killed Porsche to put 360 or 370 kph on the speedo instead of the current 350 (same as GT3)? Again, only a psychological measure but still, it is what it is.

    Why does the engraving below the PDK lever say Turbo...even on the Turbo S? Just a flaw on early cars?

    I also miss some sort of "Turbo" or "Turbo S" stitching option on the front seats, like for example the new 911.50 stitching on the 50th anniversary models.

    How about a nice turbo boost gauge embedded into the Sport Chrono watch on the dashboard?

    Exterior

    Why no "black" LED front lights as an option? (like the black Bi-Xenon lights option)

    Why no black back lights as an option? (like for the Cayenne)

    Why that stupid looking LED "frame" lights (when front lights are on) as on the Panamera Turbo? They don't fit the 911 Turbo/Turbo S.

    Why didn't Porsche use the four LED spots daylight running lights for the new Turbo (similar to the Panamera/Cayenne), they look amazing. The four spots on the exterior of the front lights ring look kind of weird. I saw them on a facelifted Panamera Turbo recently and they look stupid. The four spots inside the front lights look amazing and provide a clear identity. Only Porsche has this. It is so sad that Porsche abandoned them.

    What about the "inflatable" front spoiler lip: The Turbo/Turbo S logo is barely visible. Something different would have been nice.

    No 90l fuel tank option? Seriously? On a car which will easily eat over 20 l / 100 km when driven hard?

    Wheels

    Not a fan of the current rim choices, they don't seem to fit the Turbo/Turbo S too well I'm afraid. I also miss a "black painted" or at least "satin look" option.

    Why only 305's on the rear? The new Turbo/Turbo S has such a fat rear, the 305s look way too small. Why not 335s in the rear and 265s in front? Porsche could have made it happen in a way or another, especially since the new AWS could have provided setup options to counteract possible disadvantages of the larger tires.

    Goodies (optional)

    Some sort of PCM programmable Sport Chrono package would have been nice and I am not talking about track time recordings or similar stuff but the adjustment of engine/throttle response mappings and of course PASM/PTM setups. The current Sport Chrono package is easy to use but to be honest, it doesn't fully satisfy me. I wish there were more options to adapt single settings separately, without "package" settings.

    PDK "race mode" with harsh but superfast shifting times.

    Sport exhaust option.

    Optional digital dashboard/speedo cluster (like on the 918).

    Powerkit (no kidding) with different turbo chargers and different intercoolers, pushing the power of the Turbo S to 600 hp (considering the 560 hp version). Easy retrofit option.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I actually love what McLaren is doing with the MP4-12C: They offer a FREE 25 hp power upgrade for their car(s) and at the same time the latest tweaks and improvements with the new software. This is really a great service and I would love to see something similar from Porsche. In the end, the special connection to the customer counts a lot.

    If you have more ideas or even better one, please feel free to share them.

     

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: New 991 Turbo/Turbo S - If you could change them...what would you want?

    RC, it sounds like you haven't fully made peace with your Turbo S choice? Those are a lot of personal niggles for a car with that price tag. I hope the real deal will make you forget this list.


    Re: New 991 Turbo/Turbo S - If you could change them...what would you want?

    spudgun:

    RC, it sounds like you haven't fully made peace with your Turbo S choice? Those are a lot of personal niggles for a car with that price tag. I hope the real deal will make you forget this list.

    I always do that...especially with Porsche. I always have ideas how a certain Porsche model could have been a "better offer" for the hardcore Porsche enthusiast but this doesn't mean I hate my choice. I know that Porsche monitors this forum and sometimes they pick up some of the ideas...like the overboost for example (which I loved in my Lancia Delta HF Integrale cars and I bragged about it since my first 996 Turbo car).

    Also, nothing is written in stone yet, Porsche could still add a couple of horses and/or improve a few things here and there. Like the "Turbo" engraving below the PDK lever for example...it really looks kind of stupid in a Turbo S

    Yes, I still have the GT3 on my mind (or in my heart) but I know it would be the wrong choice for me in the end. If I'm not happy with the 991 Turbo S, I will switch to the GT2 RS when the lease is over.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: New 991 Turbo/Turbo S - If you could change them...what would you want?

    Power

    The gap between the old and the new should be higher, the gap between Turbo and Turbo S should be higher too. 530/580PS would be better

    Performance

    The gap between Turbo and Turbo S isn’t big enough.

    I think today nobody could say something about the performance of car because nobody has driven the car.

    It should be possible to switch between a daily-driver and a fun-car mode (electronic).

    Interior

    When I was a small kid I loved that speedos with high numbers. Today I want a speedo which is as accurate as possible. So I am no fan of the 360-370 idea, I would prefer the other way around, maybe 330 (in real live I only use the digital speedo, I even can’t tell you what number is written on the speedo of my Porsche)

    Kill the sport chrono wart! (I prefer the Boxster solution although this isn’t necessary, I prefer the multi color display)

    Exterior

    More colors!!

    I don’t like the black inlets, they should be painted like the rest of the car.

    I don’t like PORSCHE on the back of the car in chrome. An option order the brand name in black or car color is missing

    Bigger fuel tank!

    Wheels

    Both options are terrible. The GT3 wheels are nice (black, normal and satin look), I liked the old Turbo wheels a lot.

    Yellow color of PCCB. Some car colors don’t work with yellow. I want the brakes to be painted in black/red or yellow. (Although the Porsche brake color system has advantages too)

    Goodies (optional)

    Sport Chrono programming: Throttle response in Sport Mode is much better, but why can’t you use the Sport Mode and the 7. gear (highway in Austria or Italy) ? Perfect solution: custom setting (throttle, pasm, psm, exhaust ...)

    The iPod integration with the right lever and the multicolor display is not perfect (probably even not good)

    Sport exhaust option!!

    Targa version!!


    Re: New 991 Turbo/Turbo S - If you could change them...what would you want?

    POWER

    IMHO power should be at 530ps/710Nm for standard Turbo and 580ps/750Nm for Turbo S. Specially for the money that Porsche asks for new 991 Turbo/Turbo S. Top speed should be 320km/h and 325km/h.

    PDK

    Gearing is give or take the same as on 997.2 Turbo PDK, Yes, I know, extra long 7th gear is needed for EU6 regulation and "fake" low consumption values. BUT... Do, I like the fact that new Turbo/Turbo S are still using 7th gear as overdrive? NO.

    WHEELS

    Totally hate desing of both standard Turbo wheels and CL wheels for Turbo S. They could look good on Panamera, but not on 991 Turbo. Thank God, cure is near by-optiona XRU 20" Sport Classic wheels will be available from November 2013 production in standard GT Silver and optional Gloss Black(these wheels are standard 5 lug configuration which is IMO a huge benefite). How about new 20" Sport Classic in full matte Platinum color Porsche?

    EXTERIOR COLORS

    Why so many Brown shades? Is someone buying 991 Turbo in Brown? Medium Grey metallic a la Ferrari Grigio Titanio would be perfect IMHO for new Turbo.


    Re: New 991 Turbo/Turbo S - If you could change them...what would you want?

    I truly hope that Porsche reads this, some very good points guys, thank you.

    There still is time to correct power figures and performance claims but I doubt that Porsche will do something about that, which is a pity.

    A black painted badge option? Hallelujah. I want this for a very long time but Porsche can't deliver. I don't get it...black lights, black frames, even black painted exhaust pipes but no black model badges? I never understood.

    The current rims don't look too good, I agree. I don't know but the current two options don't really look that good on the 991 Turbo/Turbo S.

    Sport chrono individual programming should be a standard option with Sport Chrono. I want to have a better throttle response but I don't want PSM to be in sport mode. I want to have a better throttle response but I don't want the PDK shifting to be in sport mode. I want to have a better throttle response and PSM in sport mode but I do not want PASM to be in sport mode. And so on... This is something Porsche can easily offer through the PCM.

    Colors indeed offer too many brown shades. What for? 

    I would also add the desire for a better PCM jukebox functionality. Currently, it seems I can't even create separate folders and/or delete individual files. Kind of disappointing.

    PCCB brake calipers should be available in different colors too, of course as an option, even in black. Right, not all exterior colors go with yellow calipers. I also think that some customers may want a more stealth look of their car.

    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: New 991 Turbo/Turbo S - If you could change them...what would you want?

    1). Yes, agree that  those narrow  " framed " front DRLs and lateral black out plastic panels in the housing vs the wrap around versions on all other 991 s seem odd as this is the widest bodied 991.

    2) lower rear fascia around exhaust outlets too busy and angular, as if taken from the supply bin of another manufacturer

    3) double exhaust pipes per side are fine and sporty when tips are round, but when trapezoidal look cheap . Should  be just one large tip in shape to match  the fascia opening.

    3)  wheel designs , as in previous 997 Turbos, and even overall in the 991 and 981 line are bland .  ( these days, Mercedes , Audi, and BMW seem to have sportier and more uniqely three dimensional wheel designs on their  high performance sedans than Porsche and Ferrari have on their sports cars, a complete 180 from the past ) 

    4 ) how hard could it have been to add a little more design flare to the shaping of the side intakes  ( so nicely rendered and adding so much to the beauty  of the new Boxster and Cayman ) , instead of the purely functional  nostril holes that the final product has ?


    Re: New 991 Turbo/Turbo S - If you could change them...what would you want?

    Aside from the Turbo - for any 991...why can't I pre-program the Sport setting to be active by default? (or at least kill the coasting\stop-start function)


    --

    991 (what a car!) XC90 - Black/Black 2 kids, 1 dog


    Re: New 991 Turbo/Turbo S - If you could change them...what would you want?

    bridggar:

    Aside from the Turbo - for any 991...why can't I pre-program the Sport setting to be active by default? (or at least kill the coasting\stop-start function)

    This is an easy one: Safety and liability reasons. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: New 991 Turbo/Turbo S - If you could change them...what would you want?

    RC:
    bridggar:

    Aside from the Turbo - for any 991...why can't I pre-program the Sport setting to be active by default? (or at least kill the coasting\stop-start function)

    This is an easy one: Safety and liability reasons. Smiley

    And fuel efficiency/CO2 numbers?


    --


    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)


    Re: New 991 Turbo/Turbo S - If you could change them...what would you want?

    COLORS: add colors from the past and/or from the PTS approved list . Slate grey, Signal yellow, Gemini blue, Maritime Blue. I also don`t understand the brown mania. Give the customer a better choice between elegant and sporty colors (I think the choice of the sporty colors is rather restricted).

    DASH: Bring back an analogue VDO boost gauge below the rev counter. That is cool and is a Turbo trademark.

    WHEELS: Imho the GT3 wheels might look better than the offered options.

    SPECIAL EDITION: next year will be the 40 years birthday of the 911 Turbo. How about a proper special with Martini Stripes and a nice powerkit (on the Turbo S!) .


    --

    911 Club Coupe, 993 4S Riviera Blau, 12' Audi S4 Avant


    Re: New 991 Turbo/Turbo S - If you could change them...what would you want?

    - remove the turbos

    - put the engine in a more central place

    - remove the stick

    - mount paddles on the column

    - forbid any shade of white silver and black

    - make back seats bigger

    - add power

    - make it more customizable

    - make the car more exclusive OR lower the price

     

    oh wait, this car already exists. It is the Ferrari FF cool


    Re: New 991 Turbo/Turbo S - If you could change them...what would you want?

    GPS based speed display.  Note that built in GPS never has speed shown - it would never be the same as the speed.  Let us see how fast we are not going.

    Manual transmission - did I have to mention this?

    When using sport chrono to get overboost give us the choice to leave throttle sensitivity the same.  I find that with sport chrono I slip the clutch too much on start-up because the throttle is too sensitive.  Not a fan of changing the throttle settings at all.  Why?  It is a gimmick, we would not want the brake settings to be changed?

    Standard lift kit.

    Decent warranty - 10 years 100K miles - like my hyundai for crying out loud.  With so many gadgets and gimmicks it will assure the used car value for the first three owners (on average).  For the kind of money they are asking and for the good of the dealer network (they benefit from having a better car to sell and from doing warranty work) this warranty thing should be a total NO BRAINER.  Think of how much more valuable the car would be after a lease making the lease payments that much smaller.

    Stripped down version - low weight, sparse interior, no back seats, no radio etc - but not a GT2. - it would be a CHEAP base model (S or non S) - NO PASM, just 4W

    335 tires in the back, it is going to need them.

    BIGGER FUEL tank - 100L minimum.  When you blow by people on the highway or autobahn for hours the last thing you want to do is stop for gas and let them all past you again.  They may not be as nice the second time by.

    Handbrake? 

     

     

     


    Re: New 991 Turbo/Turbo S - If you could change them...what would you want?

    Optional / ???

    - Manual transmission should be standard and charge extra for PDK instead of killing it  broken heart

    - Sunroof shouldn't be mandatory

    - Sport exhaust system, because we all know turbo cars from the factory sound like vacuum cleaners

    - Lifting System + stiffer suspension instead of PASM only (GT3?)

    - Stop adding more weight!!! this is not a GTR

    - Tire selection / choice should be no less than the top 4 brands: (Michelin, Bridgestone, Pirelli, Yokohama) instead of Pirelli and Dunlop lately seen on the GT3

    - Top Speed for the Turbo should be no less than 320 km/h and 325 km/h for the Turbo S

    - Overdrive (7th) gear is nonsense

    - Auto Start / Stop function shouldn't even exist in the 911 models

    - With bump in price I was hoping they'd offer more than 2 / 3 years of warranty

    - Option to delete PCM / Cup holders / Speakers / Rear seats while retaining AWD system at no cost

    - Boost pressure - Turbo: 1.2 bar / Turbo S: 1.4 bar

    - Redline: 7,300RPM / 7,600RPM

    - 0 to 300 km/h in under 30 seconds for the Turbo S

    And maybe I might be interested in ordering one broken heart


    Re: New 991 Turbo/Turbo S - If you could change them...what would you want?

    My recommendations is do away with two TT models and merge them into one sharing some features and find a balance in pricing. 

    I would be interested in comparing the number of deposits/orders for the two cars.


    Re: New 991 Turbo/Turbo S - If you could change them...what would you want?

    The Turbo S ? It really needs more differentiation from the std Turbo.

    Perhaps..

    A different suspension set up,a different rear spoiler, RC's sport chrono/boost gauge idea, at least a different looking set of tail pipes........ and most important to the safety minded everywhere: some type of front mounted long range video cam to spot "traffic patterns" indecision. Maybe a HUD  with external inputs for radar detectors, V box  timers, etc.... smiley


    Re: New 991 Turbo/Turbo S - If you could change them...what would you want?

    One big ass toggle switch for normal/sports.

    From the factory it will be on normal, just as it would be when it goes for government testing, but when customers took delivery of the car, we can select sports and it STAYS sports until we decide to switch back to normal. 


    Re: New 991 Turbo/Turbo S - If you could change them...what would you want?

    Manual transmission. No sunroof, shed 500lbs with lightweight technology. Bring back the big whale tail as an option. More colors and more rim choices.


    --

    1991 BMW 535i Granitsilber/White Leather (Canada)
    1991 BMW 318i Brilliantrot/Black Leather (Germany)

    Ex: '89 525i, '74 280E, '87 325is, '86 325e, '05 FF, '85.5 944

    
    

    Re: New 991 Turbo/Turbo S - If you could change them...what would you want?

    BiTurbo:

    Optional / ???

    - Manual transmission should be standard and charge extra for PDK instead of killing it  broken heart

    Manual? As far as I heard, only a one digit percentage of customers wants manual on the 911 Turbo, so this is surely not going to happen.

    - Sunroof shouldn't be mandatory

    It isn't...in some ROW markets. I agree, Americans should have a choice.

    - Sport exhaust system, because we all know turbo cars from the factory sound like vacuum cleaners

    This is something Porsche apparently has changed (the exhaust has flaps, even if Porsche doesn't mention them in their technicla description and the sound symposer should help too). If the sound disappoints again (I expect a sound close to 991 PSE sound, maybe not as loud), then a PSE option is a MUST. Porsche needs to understand that the 911 Turbo needs to sound special, especially compared to the Audi R8, the Ferrari 458 or the Lamborghini Gallardo

    - Lifting System + stiffer suspension instead of PASM only (GT3?)

    An optional sport (GT?) package would be nice, I agree. Then of course, they should offer a lower ride and a lift system. Agreed.

    - Stop adding more weight!!! this is not a GTR

    Yes, adding weight is really a shame. At least Porsche should have kept the weight of the "old" car.

    - Tire selection / choice should be no less than the top 4 brands: (Michelin, Bridgestone, Pirelli, Yokohama) instead of Pirelli and Dunlop lately seen on the GT3

    Customers should be able to select the tire brand, Porsche could charge for this (apparently they aren't aware of it). I would gladly pay 200-300 EUR for a tire brand choice.

    - Top Speed for the Turbo should be no less than 320 km/h and 325 km/h for the Turbo S

    I agree on this one too but then, both cars get too close to the upcoming GT2 and GT2 RS. A shame.

    - Overdrive (7th) gear is nonsense

    Required for environmental issues, the new Turbo models achieve the EURO 6 emissions standard, which is amazing. This standard is mandatory from Sept. 2015 on for new cars.

    - Auto Start / Stop function shouldn't even exist in the 911 models

    Again...environmental reasons. It can be turned off (which I do all the time).

    - With bump in price I was hoping they'd offer more than 2 / 3 years of warranty

    This is actually a very interesting point. Porsche should bump up their warranty, this is something I expected many years ago but apparently, they do not care.

    - Option to delete PCM / Cup holders / Speakers / Rear seats while retaining AWD system at no cost

    This is difficult at no cost (wiring, etc.). However, they could make an option out of it. Interesting. Unfortunately I don't think that many Turbo customers would go for it. I wouldn't. (hell, I actually even ordered the seat cooling).

    - Boost pressure - Turbo: 1.2 bar / Turbo S: 1.4 bar

    Not sure what advantage a higher boost pressure has (at the same power level? Smiley).

    - Redline: 7,300RPM / 7,600RPM

    What for? This is a Turbo.

    - 0 to 300 km/h in under 30 seconds for the Turbo S

    According to real life data from a pre-production car, this could actually happen. Smiley

    And maybe I might be interested in ordering one broken heart

    Maybe you should get the GT2 RS then? Smiley

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: New 991 Turbo/Turbo S - If you could change them...what would you want?

    Whoopsy:

    One big ass toggle switch for normal/sports.

    From the factory it will be on normal, just as it would be when it goes for government testing, but when customers took delivery of the car, we can select sports and it STAYS sports until we decide to switch back to normal. 

    Not possible for liability/safety reasons. I think I explained it.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: New 991 Turbo/Turbo S - If you could change them...what would you want?

    JimFlat6:

    The Turbo S ? It really needs more differentiation from the std Turbo.

    Perhaps..

    A different suspension set up,a different rear spoiler, RC's sport chrono/boost gauge idea, at least a different looking set of tail pipes........ and most important to the safety minded everywhere: some type of front mounted long range video cam to spot "traffic patterns" indecision.

    Definetely yes. This is actually the biggest disappointment, only a few logos here and there, not enough.

    Maybe a HUD  with external inputs for radar detectors, V box  timers, etc.... smiley

    This is never going to happen and you know why.

    Actually, I wonder: Mike could easily offer STEALTH car specific V1 kits for big money but he never did that. Too complicated? I don't think so. Not profitable? Well...I would pay big bucks for a system which I could easily install myself and which integrates nicely into the car's interior/exterior without giving away that I actually use such a system. I think that Mike is missing a huge opportunity here... Smiley

    I also wonder why not more radar detector manufacturers actually make their detectors look like navigation systems because it would be impossible for the police, especially outside the US, to detect them. Over here in Europe, almost every car has a navigation unit under the front windscreen, so it would be a perfect stealth design.

    What am I missing here? Smiley

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: New 991 Turbo/Turbo S - If you could change them...what would you want?

    nberry:

    My recommendations is do away with two TT models and merge them into one sharing some features and find a balance in pricing. 

    I would be interested in comparing the number of deposits/orders for the two cars.

    Never going to happen. Also don't be surprised that a lot of people seem to order the Turbo only. Apparently some of these people think that a simple software update will transform their Turbo to a Turbo S. Since Porsche is using a Siemens ECU, they could have a bad surprise. Siemens is using some bad ass encrypted coding and on the new units even more tricky stuff to prevent tampering. I am also curious how these software mods would affect the PDK, PASM/PTM/etc. collaboration. Somebody who works in development told me that it is insane to tamper with this stuff, it could pose a serious safety risk because the ECU communicates with other control units for the PDK, PASM, PTM and even the AWS. Now just imagine if something doesn't work right... Smiley I had a sudden boost drop from 1.2 bar to 0.2 bar in a curve at a speed over 300 kph in a 996 Turbo, you can't imagine how dangerous this was. This happened because I was stupid and had a simple "chip tuning" only on my 996 Turbo, a half hour job with a laptop.

    This is how people learn...sometimes the hard way.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: New 991 Turbo/Turbo S - If you could change them...what would you want?

    Why do you think Porsche opted to introduce both models at the same time? Could it be they wanted to gage the market as to which model attracted more customers and why? I don't believe 997TT owners decided to move up to the 997TTS. THat market segment involved a different buyer quite possibly Ferrari  McLaren and Lambo buyers.

    Now with both models offered at the same time Porsche will get some idea which model attracts the largest buyer segment. More power with bells and whistles or a basic no nonsense TT?

     

     


    Re: New 991 Turbo/Turbo S - If you could change them...what would you want?

    nberry:

    Why do you think Porsche opted to introduce both models at the same time? Could it be they wanted to gage the market as to which model attracted more customers and why? I don't believe 997TT owners decided to move up to the 997TTS. THat market segment involved a different buyer quite possibly Ferrari  McLaren and Lambo buyers.

    Now with both models offered at the same time Porsche will get some idea which model attracts the largest buyer segment. More power with bells and whistles or a basic no nonsense TT?


    I bet the S will outsell the standard Turbo by far! 9 out of 10 buyers will opt for the Turbo S.


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: New 991 Turbo/Turbo S - If you could change them...what would you want?

    That would be my guess as well. Smiley


    Re: New 991 Turbo/Turbo S - If you could change them...what would you want?

    Rossi:
    nberry:

    Why do you think Porsche opted to introduce both models at the same time? Could it be they wanted to gage the market as to which model attracted more customers and why? I don't believe 997TT owners decided to move up to the 997TTS. THat market segment involved a different buyer quite possibly Ferrari  McLaren and Lambo buyers.

    Now with both models offered at the same time Porsche will get some idea which model attracts the largest buyer segment. More power with bells and whistles or a basic no nonsense TT?


    I bet the S will outsell the standard Turbo by far! 9 out of 10 buyers will opt for the Turbo S.

    Yep, me too, they roll out a Turbo S with the power that the regular 991 Turbo should have gotten, at a nice price increase, knowing that customers will be forced to pay for the "S" if they want an engine that will match the competition better... its a win win for the Porsche cow milking machine Smiley


    --


    Re: New 991 Turbo/Turbo S - If you could change them...what would you want?

    That  "Turbo S" script on the instrument dial haunts some buyers... I think its a great psychological sales ploy aimed  at the psychological  profile of Turbo buyers to get even more money from them. angry

    Thinking of paying all that money for a standard Turbo? and  then knowing that you could have gotten a Turbo S and seen that " Turbo S" logo every time you start the car........ just thinking ...    indecision


    Re: New 991 Turbo/Turbo S - If you could change them...what would you want?

    Every person I know who is interested on a 991 TT is only looking at the Turbo S .

     


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: New 991 Turbo/Turbo S - If you could change them...what would you want?

    All of the important performance points have been covered so on the subject of colour and trim which have a growing importance for many buyers -

    When spending the sort of money a turbo S costs does Porsche not think buyers will want to personalise their cars without resorting to the time delay and considerable additional expense that Exclusive brings? The paint to sample  window is only open for part of each model year so that further constrains things.

    My suggestions? Sack the person responsible for selecting the standard colour ranges on offer currently. Who signed off Lime green for example when you have so many fantastic shades of both green and gold in the back catalogue?? With such a huge range of historic colours available from the past 50 years of the 911 why is there no option to choose some of these like you can with Ferrari? Surely Porsche can better organise a paint shop to allow more colour flexibility and offer some colours for select models only i.e. offer at least two or three colours for the turbo/turbo s that are not available on other 991 models and do the same for the forthcoming targa. Let people have the option to choose an understated look if using their car daily or a more adventurous look if using it as a weekend toy.

    Why not offer a "historic package" that allows an owner to choose both an exterior colour and a different interior trim. The 50 Edition is showing how the revival of the old Houndstooth cloth is proving a major draw for that model on a lot of forums. I think a lot of buyers are fed up with the restriction of either leather or alcantara. Every manufacturer offers these now on everything from city cars upwards these days. It has long since ceased to be an indication of exclusivity or luxury. Porsche have some fantastic options available from previous generations of cars from the cordurouy fabric of the early 911s through the plaid cloth of the mid 70's, Pascha velour of the late 70's, pinstripe velour of the 80's etc that could all be modernised to give a more "Porsche" feel to the interior as opposed to the criticisms being levelled of the cars turning into GT cabins. Have designers forgotten that we sit "inside" these cars so want to feel like we are in a Porsche and not in some anoymous leather clad cabin that could be from any premium manufacturer? Cabin architecture is only one part of the design aesthetic. Materials choice is very much a  significant factor in the whole experience.

    The aluminium exterior highlights of the 50 edition gives a good link to the early generation of 911. The simple addition of the black stoneguards I had made for my Racing yellow car together with the current retro Fuchs inspired wheels from the Exclusive options for the turbo models along with a choice of Pascha or pinstripe seat inserts would create an effective homage to the 930 series for instance.

    As sales volumes increase residual values are surely set to continue to suffer if year after year of dull, look alike black/grey/silver examples continue to pile up as used stock in dealer showrooms. I know from personal experience in the UK market that the cars that are selling quickly on the used market here are ones which stand out with different colours and interiors. Dealers are only just waking up to this and being far more adventurous when spec'ing cars for stock. Reading through various internet forums it seems the desire for greater individuality is growing in many other markets as well.

    And please stop making ordering contrast stitching such a horrendous maze of option codes that allows cars to be built with mismatched stitching far too easily. If a buyer wants contrast stitching they invariably want it throughout the car. Ferrari and Lamborghini manage to do this with one code and at far more sensible cost. It is only thread after all and each interior is already being made order specific to a car so where is the problem?


    Re: New 991 Turbo/Turbo S - If you could change them...what would you want?

    Gnil:

    Every person I know who is interested on a 991 TT is only looking at the Turbo S .

     

    The S models are a very clever marketing technique on behalf of PAG.  It should be taught in business schools.

    When the 996 Carrera came out there was just one engine of 300 HP and everybody was happy. Then with the 997, suddenly 325 HP was not adequate because the "S model" existed and everybody wanted 355 HP or even the X51 381 HP and they were willing to pay much extra for the top model. The entry model hardly sold relative to the S and Porsche cashed in on this strategy.

    The story is continued with the 997.2, 991 and now with the Turbo. You start to become interested for a car selling at 160.000 EUR and eventually you end up paying over 200.000 EUR, and you feel happy that you got a bargain too because it is an all inclusive price.

    It is not enough to make good products, but to know how to promote them and to make money. Well done Porsche kiss


    --

    "Form follows function"


     
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