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    Re: will Porsche still be Porsche in next 10 years

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Wow. Interesting. Thanks for the clues Jim. I certainly want Porsche to succeed. Thanks for helping me figure out what's going on; it helps my amateur hobbyist speculation( ).



    I found some further information - sort of indirect - about Porsche's move into the SUV's and the Panamera. I found it in the May 2007 issue of "Excellence, the magazine about Porsche." In an interview with Roger Penske, on page 95, the Excellence interviewer asks Penske what he thought of the impact of the Cayenne and the Panamera (Penske's United Auto Group owns four Porsche dealers in the United Kingdom and five in the United States) on Porsche's brand identity.

    Here's Penske's response (direct quote in quotation marks), which may include a bit of hype but which generally reflects the desire of Porsche dealers to be relatively less dependent on the swings in sales that occur with the 911's, Boxster's, and Cayman's: "As a dealer, the Cayenne has been like adding another franchise - it's doubled our business. It's given us access to a segment which has just been terrific and I think the new 2007 model updates are right on. And the performance of the Turbo is just breathtaking. My wife drives one, my daughter has one. To me, it's been a great vehicle. From a dealer's perspective, it's been a home run. It's been a great asset to the bottom line."

    "Looking at the Panamera coming in, accessing a new group of customers, I think Porsche will set a standard from a standpoint of performance. There is a terrific amount of people out there who want to have a Porsche badge on their car and are also willing to pay a premium price for a vehicle like Porsche. Both of these vehicles are right on track. We've experienced Cayenne and it's been excellent. With the Panamera, we're hoping to see the same increase in unit sales at the dealership level while bringing an additional customer to the Porsche family." End of quote

    IMHO, dealers like Penske have a big impact on Porsche's thinking and it's willingness to use "the badge" and the accompanying engineering to produce cars that appeal to others. Sales of other lines of cars also help Porsche stay profitable during times when sports car sales fall drastically. This latter event has happened a number of times in the past and put Porsche in a precarious financial position. I think that's Porsche's reason for diversifying it's line of models.

    Jim

    Re: will Porsche still be Porsche in next 10 years?

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    Quote:
    964C2 said:
    If Porsche had not diversified, the company would not have survived and now we would all be nostalgic about that great "sports cars - only" company that used to exist.



    Exactly... Business 101, FIRST, you've gotta make enough money to perpetuate and evolve, to remain cutting edge and competitive. If it were not for the success of diversified products, the 911 would be the one to suffer. As a direct result, other larger more profitable companies would build a FAR BETTER mouse-trap, sales would plummet, and the beginning of the end would be at hand. They came damn close to realizing that fate in fact...

    Porsche has done well to grow and thrive, and still produce a superior product that is widely desired, even if the price makes it obtainable by few, relatively speaking.

    They OWE THAT TO THEIR EMPLOYEES... In my mind, growing a sound business that continues to build and succeed is a business's primary commitment to the people who work for them, and the industries supported underneath their umbrella.

    There's no room for romantic nostalgia, if it's not going to equate into growth and success for the company and jobs for the community. In some cases, businesses achieve both goals, and I truly believe that Porsche has done about as good as you can reasonably expect "keeping it real" while at the same time "keeping it growing".

    If you miss the old days, jump over to Lotus. Or better yet, just buy an old Porsche! They're great fun, they hold value, and there's plenty good ones out there..



    Absolutely spot-on!

    Re: will Porsche still be Porsche in next 10 years?

    Quote:
    bstew said:
    Porsche will be a car company that is making cars that people will buy, nothing more nothing less. I for one don't like my 997 any less now that Porsche makes a SUV or other cars outside of the 997.



    Exactly. The search for exclusivity is, whilst perfectly understandable, a false god I'm afraid, at least for shareholders of a car manufacturer.

    But I don't mind. Even if my car is now built by a multi-range mass producer, I still think my 997S is one of the most beautiful P-Cars ever made, looks wise.

    However, I do think MMD's point about the danger of dumbing down styling in order to offend fewer when going for the mass market may be one of the company's biggest challenges ahead, even if I'm not really sure about any of the Cayenne models. Let's hope the leadership of the firm continues to strike the right balance.

    SoS.

    Re: will Porsche still be Porsche in next 10 years?

    The 911 has always been a clean and simple beauty... It's a dream car to most... I don't understand why there would be a need to "dumb-down" a car that is already lusted after by most. If being appealing to the masses equals dumbed-down, then the 911 has been very very stupid and dim for over 40 years now!!

    Re: will Porsche still be Porsche in next 10 years

    Quote:
    Jim48 said:

    IMHO, dealers like Penske have a big impact on Porsche's thinking and it's willingness to use "the badge" and the accompanying engineering to produce cars that appeal to others.

    Jim



    Wow.

    Isn't there the old addage about success is the surest way to ruin itself? (I totally mangled it; just for fun ).

    I haven't paid attention to BMW's stragey for the base model 3 series, but it's a pretty inexpensive entry-level car.

    Given Porsche's phenomenal success it seems like the high-end buyers market's gotta peter out. Hey, maybe there's a starter level Porsche less-expensive than the Boxster in Porsche's future!

    Maybe a VW-Porsche partnership! You know, boost the sales of a Particular VW model because it has "Porsche equipment" on it!

    THAT would be selling the name big time!

    Think of all the P-VW tailgaters and street racer "harrasment" we'd get from that!


    Re: will Porsche still be Porsche in next 10 years

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    The 911 has always been a clean and simple beauty... It's a dream car to most... I don't understand why there would be a need to "dumb-down" a car that is already lusted after by most. If being appealing to the masses equals dumbed-down, then the 911 has been very very stupid and dim for over 40 years now!!



    Yeah, good observation, I defer to you yet again 69B9. I guess what was bothering me is the car's seems destined to be getting more and more BS flare-ish-sytling, needless fluff, on it that appeals to..., I dunno..., "younger" guys who gotta be flashy. THAT's what "worries" me.

    Here's a pic showing how things have evolved; just for fun. I have no point to make except: NOTHING beats the "original" cars up to the 993 for good looks, IMO.

    Re: will Porsche still be Porsche in next 10 years

    I'll agree that the Turbo is looking pretty goofball.... Thank goodness that the straight-up Carrera is still classy looking. Would be so nice if they'd build a Turbo the way they used to... Wider body, and that's about it (and the tail of course, just as small as possible please...). If I want to drive a batmobile, I'll get a Viper...

    Re: will Porsche still be Porsche in next 10 years?

    I agree with "bluelines"... without the cayenne and boxster, porsche wouldn't be around to make great quality 911s, or exotics such as the Carrera GT... while Ferrari didn't product less expensive 2 seaters and SUVs, it was saved by a company called FIAT, which manufactures all sorts of sh-t cars, trucks, buses, etc... Aston was saved by the company who invented the production line concept (Ford)... Lamborghini was saved by the automaker who created the "car of the people" (VW)... porsche brand is no different... the 911 was saved by the boxsters and cayennes, except they carry the same badge... no more, no less...

    Re: will Porsche still be Porsche in next 10 years?

    Quote:
    Marwan Arakji said:
    I agree with "bluelines"... without the cayenne and boxster, porsche wouldn't be around to make great quality 911s, or exotics such as the Carrera GT... while Ferrari didn't product less expensive 2 seaters and SUVs, it was saved by a company called FIAT, which manufactures all sorts of sh-t cars, trucks, buses, etc... Aston was saved by the company who invented the production line concept (Ford)... Lamborghini was saved by the automaker who created the "car of the people" (VW)... porsche brand is no different... the 911 was saved by the boxsters and cayennes, except they carry the same badge... no more, no less...



    IMO,maybe the biggest problem is that Cayenne and PANAMERA are carry the BADGE.FIAT and FORD nerver sell cars carrying Ferrari and Lambor badge.

    Re: will Porsche still be Porsche in next 10 years?


    For Ford it is 100% sure, they never sold Lambo cars just because they don't own Lambo my dear friend ....

    Ford: Jaguar and up to very recently Aston martin

    Volkswagen Group (hence Audi): Bentley, Lamborghini and Bugatti

    BMW: Rolls Royce

    Re: will Porsche still be Porsche in next 10 years?

    Whether or not they carry the badge means nothing to me. It's just a badge. It's the car that makes the car, you could slap a picture of Rosie Odonnell on the hood for all I care.... (then again, anything else but that...)

    Just because there's a Ford Oval on the nose of the Ford GT, it doesn't take a nano-degree worth of dreaminess away from that car. It wouldn't be any more enticing with an Aston or Jag emblem on it.

    Emblems are for those who go out and buy matching hats and shirts and shiny jackets....

    Re: will Porsche still be Porsche in next 10 years

    Quote:
    Jim48 said:... "As a dealer, the Cayenne has been like adding another franchise - it's doubled our business. It's given us access to a segment which has just been terrific and I think the new 2007 model updates are right on. ...



    OTOH... I hear Cayenne leases have been returned in droves, used Cayenne prices plummeted and Cayenne lessees moved to other brands...

    Re: will Porsche still be Porsche in next 10 years

    I think the Cayenne has one thing that is NOT going for it. Original style or new style regardless, it's one of the ugliest SUV's on the market. People have been willing to overlook that fact for the great driving and the badge, but...., In my opinion they need to DITCH their attempts to keep the styling so "911 grafted onto school-bus", and go a more chiseled and distinct direction with it. Let's face it, 911 and Boxster styling cues don't translate to a 4-door SUV worth a damn, it's like putting socks on a chicken. I'll go even further. The Panamera is damn silly looking too. People will buy it because it's a Porsche, and it will perform ridiculously good. I also thought the proposed Aston sedan looked goofy trying to carry so much DB9 styling into a 4-door. Can you imagine stretching a 911 wheelbase and adding rear doors? Would look like a clown car. So why is the Rapide considered good? Mercedes understands that you can keep a family resemblance, without stupidly slapping an SL nose and tail onto an S-class sedan. The Maserati sedan really nails it in the looks department as well.

    Random dribblings...

    Re: will Porsche still be Porsche in next 10 years

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    ... In my opinion they need to DITCH their attempts to keep the styling so "911 grafted onto school-bus"...

    Random dribblings...



    Not Random dribblings at all... that is exactly what I thought of the Cayenne when I saw it first. Kinda used to it now. Still not sure I like it - unlike the current 5 series which I *hated* when I first saw it, now think is pretty cool - especially the M which has the right sized wheels.

    Havent really got a sense of the Panamera yet - anyone got a decent image to post?

    Cheers,

    SoS.

     
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