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    Say good-bye to the Audi TT and Audi R8

    Audi has apparently made their decision: Audi TT and Audi R8 will be discontinued. Smiley The end.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Say good-bye to the Audi TT and Audi R8

    I remember the same statement about the R8 years ago...


    --

    2018 White 911 GT3


    Re: Say good-bye to the Audi TT and Audi R8

    RC:

    Audi has apparently made their decision: Audi TT and Audi R8 will be discontinued. Smiley The end.

    That is an interesting decision Smiley


    Re: Say good-bye to the Audi TT and Audi R8

    Gauss:

    I remember the same statement about the R8 years ago...

    It is official now. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Say good-bye to the Audi TT and Audi R8

    RC:
    Gauss:

    I remember the same statement about the R8 years ago...

    It is official now. Smiley

    Mercedes is contemplating ending the C-series coupé too.  It has canceled the S-class coupé for the States and has dropped the SLK.  Crossovers are more popular and with the EU regulations on emissions and speed limiters these cars, unfortunately, don’t make sense anymore.  Strange that the U.S. can take a real leadership in performance cars with Ford Mustang, Chevrolet Camaro, and mid-engined Corvette.  All have normally aspirated engines too.  


    Re: Say good-bye to the Audi TT and Audi R8

    CGX car nut:
    RC:
    Gauss:

    I remember the same statement about the R8 years ago...

    It is official now. Smiley

    Mercedes is contemplating ending the C-series coupé too.  It has canceled the S-class coupé for the States and has dropped the SLK.  Crossovers are more popular and with the EU regulations on emissions and speed limiters these cars, unfortunately, don’t make sense anymore.  Strange that the U.S. can take a real leadership in performance cars with Ford Mustang, Chevrolet Camaro, and mid-engined Corvette.  All have normally aspirated engines too.  

     

    I’m surprised they canceled the S coupe. I’ve always thought the CL/S Coupe line was very popular in the US. 


    Re: Say good-bye to the Audi TT and Audi R8

    koko:
    CGX car nut:
    RC:
    Gauss:

    I remember the same statement about the R8 years ago...

    It is official now. Smiley

    Mercedes is contemplating ending the C-series coupé too.  It has canceled the S-class coupé for the States and has dropped the SLK.  Crossovers are more popular and with the EU regulations on emissions and speed limiters these cars, unfortunately, don’t make sense anymore.  Strange that the U.S. can take a real leadership in performance cars with Ford Mustang, Chevrolet Camaro, and mid-engined Corvette.  All have normally aspirated engines too.  

     

    I’m surprised they canceled the S coupe. I’ve always thought the CL/S Coupe line was very popular in the US. 

    Too much product variance and not enough return on capital.  


    Re: Say good-bye to the Audi TT and Audi R8

    I understand very well why this happens: In Germany, the climate change has pushed away basically every other topic in the media, including the refugees topic which was actually occupying the public here for a very long time. The VW emissions scandal was very likely a strong trigger, also because VW did nothing to stop the media from reporting new headlines almost every single day. Just stupid! 

    I also get the feeling that the climate change topic has helped many politicians in various countries. Suddenly, climate change has become a topic again, helping especially those leftist parties who lost a lot of ground over the past years because of the whole illegal immigration and refugees discussion in Europe. Since the media over here is in general also a little bit leftist (Americans call it liberal ), they loved to pick up the new topic, saving them from the not so beloved immigration topics and headlines.

    That said, suddenly the earth is dying fast and humanity has only 9 years left, at least this is what a teacher told my son in school. 9 years. So I guess I should start worrying, right? Well, I remember when I was in school, acid rain and all and my teachers, politicians and the media predicted that by the year 2000, the earth would be completely destroyed environmentally. No more food, no more water, no more oil, hundreds of millions dying from famine and the air would be almost unbreathable and cancer rates would have extremely high spikes. Well, we all know how this story continued, so I'm not willing to let others infuse me or my kids with eternal fear.

    Bottom line is: People are confused and don't know what cars to buy. For car manufacturers, the whole market is a mess right now, especially in Germany but also in Europe and maybe even the US. Nobody can predict what will be in five or ten years, especially since some politicians want to ban petrol engines completely and others say this is nonsense. Interesting times ahead, I am so glad I do not work in the car industry. angry


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Say good-bye to the Audi TT and Audi R8

    With platform sharing that started some 25 years ago manufacturers (especially the VW Group) thought they would reach significantly more customers by offering a proliferation of basically similar products under the skin.

    It seems that the goal of sales maximization through a very wide product range was not reached and now manufacturers are entering a phase of Product Rationalization. They will drop products that don't sell enough to make adequate profit or worst, they make losses  in order to invest more in the products that make the maximum profit.

     


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: Say good-bye to the Audi TT and Audi R8

    + last generations R8 and TT were sales flops. 


    --

    997.2 4S / BMW X5 40e / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: Say good-bye to the Audi TT and Audi R8

    The revolution has started, first sedans are dead, then the millennials are not into cars much anymore and prefer to be driven than drive, especially in urban environment, then society is much less tolerant with drinking than it used to be, making it too risky to go out for diner and drive after... Then pollution, especially particles from diesel is much more concerning to people. The next 10 years will see large shifts of power in the automobile industry, some seem more prepared than others like VW group...

    The R8 was never popular, rarely see one on the streets unlike Lambo, Ferrari, McLaren and 911 or even Bentley GT...


    Re: Say good-bye to the Audi TT and Audi R8

    spudgun:

    + last generations R8 and TT were sales flops. 

    For a reason. The last two years were certainly related to the uncertainty buyers have/had to endure. 

    Current R8 was too expensive and marketing was basically zero. They didn't even try.

    Current TT sounded nice in the beginning but they castrated the sound and performance was always "tuned" slightly below Porsche's Boxster and Cayman, what a shame. Also, not always cheap, especially in the top configurations.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Say good-bye to the Audi TT and Audi R8

    SciFrog:

    The revolution has started, first sedans are dead, then the millennials are not into cars much anymore and prefer to be driven than drive, especially in urban environment, then society is much less tolerant with drinking than it used to be, making it too risky to go out for diner and drive after... Then pollution, especially particles from diesel is much more concerning to people. The next 10 years will see large shifts of power in the automobile industry, some seem more prepared than others like VW group...

    Sedans are dead? I would say some sedans are dead. Mercedes sold over 355000(!) Mercedes E class models in 2018. This is not your cheap compact car...

    The R8 was never popular, rarely see one on the streets unlike Lambo, Ferrari, McLaren and 911 or even Bentley GT...

    The first gen R8 was very popular... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Say good-bye to the Audi TT and Audi R8

    RC:

    Bottom line is: People are confused and don't know what cars to buy. For car manufacturers, the whole market is a mess right now, especially in Germany but also in Europe and maybe even the US.

    Manufacturers didn't help themselves either by offering a gazillion different models to the masses to choose from.


    Re: Say good-bye to the Audi TT and Audi R8

    OK sedans are not dead, they are dying:

    https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=36674 

    but the trend is scary...


    Re: Say good-bye to the Audi TT and Audi R8

    SciFrog:

    OK sedans are not dead, they are dying:

    https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=36674 

    but the trend is scary...

    The trend is clearly visible but the funny part is: SUVs and crossover sell better than ever now but the media and people actually blame them most for CO2 output and killing the environment. Smiley There is a pretty wide difference between public perception and what the media says and buying behavior. Judging by public perception and the current climate change mass hysteria (I am talking about the "panic", not the climate change per se), nobody would/should actually drive a SUV or crossover. Smiley So many hypocrites around... Smiley 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Say good-bye to the Audi TT and Audi R8

    It is more complicated than that.

    In urban centers where pollution is more prominent and young or liberal people are more concentrated, they do care a lot. But in suburbains areas or rural places, they simply do not care as much, only the media is pushing very very hard for this. Also in the USA, they do not care about particles, only CO2. And since they want/need SUVs, they just get them. People care way more about the price of gasoline than they do about CO2 output.

    In Europe, particles are much more of an issue than CO2, all pollution warnings are linked to particles and people know this now. They are paying the price of all these diesel cars that were producing less CO2 but much more particles. Also it is less marked than in the USA but just yesterday they were showing on French TV how people were still buying SUV/crossover despite the “malus” tax for polluting cars that affect a lot 30% of the vehicles sold. Governments in Europe are trying to slow the shift from sedans to larger vehicles but it is still happening.


    Re: Say good-bye to the Audi TT and Audi R8

    Right now, the whole Diesel and particles discussion has shifted to CO2 output again: Keep in mind that the environment is for many always much more important than human lives. Smiley The current push for new CO2 taxes actually proves my point, this is...again...as always...about money. The sheep (the regular population) agrees since we only have 9 years before we world ends. Smiley I expect higher taxes in many domains due to new and/or higher CO2 taxes. Just a matter of time.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Say good-bye to the Audi TT and Audi R8

    CO2 defines the price of the tax which is up to 10,000E in France.

    Fine particles emission defines when cities start to alternate car traffic.

    both are important and both impact your life in France. And it is not going to be better anytime soon. sticker on your car from 1 to 5: 

    5 is high CO2/Particles emission car.

    1 is EV.

    during high pollution days, there is a ban on 5. soon on 4 and so on up to allowance of only #1 in a matter of short time. serious subject.


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Say good-bye to the Audi TT and Audi R8

    Audi, like BMW and M-B, have too many models with overlap.  When the TT was first introduced, Audi did not offer the A5 or A3 cabriolet.  Those cars are substitutes for the image seeking motorist and the TT is seen as a less pure sports car than a Porsche. Audi needed to fully commit, which it didn’t do as the potential was there with the car.  Audi then positioned the R8 Mk2 too close to the Lamborghini.  


    Re: Say good-bye to the Audi TT and Audi R8

    CGX car nut:

    Audi then positioned the R8 Mk2 too close to the Lamborghini.  

    Audi should have maintained the Manual gated gearbox to differentiate itself more from Lambo.


    --

     

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: Say good-bye to the Audi TT and Audi R8

    Grant:
    CGX car nut:

    Audi then positioned the R8 Mk2 too close to the Lamborghini.  

    Audi should have maintained the Manual gated gearbox to differentiate itself more from Lambo.


    --

     

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     

    Audi needed to offer a less expensive variant either with a v8 or turbo v6 than two v10 variants.  The use of the v10 moved the price point too high for a typical Audi.  However, it remains a value leader compared with its Lamborghini sister.  


    Re: Say good-bye to the Audi TT and Audi R8

    The styling was also tricky. My wife kind of liked it but I always found it a bit bland and boring and too “Audi” corporate. The facelift did not change anything, it was kind of exactly the same.

    McLaren, Bentley, AM and Lamborghini are striking for very nice balance between sportiness, aggressiveness and refining in terms of design.

    Porsche are either not changing anything or introducing disastrous design elements (at the rear). Audi is stale. Mercedes are nice but they all look exactly the same, same issue with Tesla but with a tricky base design. The jury is still out on the latest Ferraris. The new Minis are an example of how to make a design evolves enough while respecting the original idea.


    Re: Say good-bye to the Audi TT and Audi R8

    Part of this is the very first gen were nice and innovative. But that ended after that. R8 should have entered a niche and not trying to be a budget copy paste of Lambo when they started close cooperation. 

    TT is very tacky in term of design since the past few years and just castrated to not poison Porsche is just stupid. All of this is leading to one conclusion, poor management for the VW group strategy. Add this fiasco for emissions and it is cherry on the cake. Current brand which is being slowly diluted is Porsche.


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Say good-bye to the Audi TT and Audi R8

    I am still enjoying my R8 V8 manual especially considering my choice vis a vis a 991 at that time. Next year I might be considering the R8 V10 performance but if it is not available, the Lamborghini would be the logical choice but that is a lot more money than an R8. Maybe the McLaren base version but ....


    Re: Say good-bye to the Audi TT and Audi R8

    Until McLaren gets a reputation for reliability instead of Bank busting repair costs I'd stay far away from one

     


    Re: Say good-bye to the Audi TT and Audi R8

    Just checked the Lamborghini pricing, wow, I think I need to work much harder. 


     
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