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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Leawood911:
    Carlos from Spain:
    Leawood911:
    Carlos from Spain:

    Have you not learnt anything Nick? there is one ONE choice, ever indecision Seriously, lots of choices now but as you say, with current gas prices I'm sure they can't build them fast enough, though over here electricity prices have risen much much higher than what gas has.

    But what is the cost per mile vs gas?  Is that not important.  I get that both go up but…I’m at $.02 per mile and no maintenance costs. In 36k miles I have topped off the windshield washer fluid. 
    Tesla’s real competition are EVs from China. Not from Europe and not any ICE. As Whoopsy points out with the Greely 

    Haven't had the need to compare costs but price of electricity is so so so high here right now, specially those countries like Spain where the tree hugging socialist party has shifted from nuclear energy to green energy before it was profitable that now we are left paying electricity as if it be were antimatter, so that the difference in savings with EV is not as significant here, and if you charge at a gas station then it's even similar cost than filling the tank with petrol/gasoil.

    Within five miles of my house there are 5 -6 public EV charging stations which are free to use. No charge. No wait.   Usually at Malls or hospitals where you need them.  Have not seen any free gas stations. Ever. Imagine the line for such a station ?  
    btw it is a myth that a Model 3 can’t corner. Stock the performance model corners far better than a Polestar and is tons more fun to drive. Complete BS that you would not like one just for the fun of driving.  But I get that some have not tried it. 

    I think your area confusing posts in your reply...


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Any of you guys tried the Kia EV6 ?


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    throt

    "I Have Done It!".

    991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.

    991 GT3.2 pick up April/May 2018. ( Hairy Chest Spec ).

    Vauxhall Zafira 1.6 Exclusive pick up June 2013. ( Shit Box )

    Rennteam Hairy Chest Advisor.


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    throt:

    Any of you guys tried the Kia EV6 ?

     

    One of my friends got the sister car Ioniq 5. She can't say enough praises. But then again she was looking for transportation, doesn't quite rating cars like we do. She went from a Model 3 to the Hyundai and find everything more intuitive. 

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    amazon:

    I also had the opportunity to test drive the Polestar 2 (dual motor 408bhp). I was alone and drove it really hard on empty country roads. The car wasn't equipped with the performance pack (std setup, no ohlin dampers) but had 20 inch wheels.

    I agree with your assessment. The ride quality of the polestar 2 is impressive. It does not lean into corners, the steering felt good and the built quality is great. The power was adequate IMHO. I never felt the need to have more power. I even think it would become uncomfortable if it had more power. 

    That being said, and I don't have much experience with EVs in general so I guess even the taycan will have the same issue, you really feel the weight of the car when you hit the brakes. The 2 tons of the car suddenly transfer to the front and it's not a pleasant experience. The brakes don't feel strong enough IMO. 

    Also, the car feels too planted for its own good. There was some rain and I even encountered some hail. However, the car didn't budge one bit, even under full acceleration. Therefore the car feels a bit lifeless.

    The lazy throttle tip in. It's almost like the car is asking are you sure you want more power, then it delivers. And when it delivered, it's just right, not too much not too little. 400hp is spot on for that chassis. Brakes will never be up to Taycan standard, it's not a Porsche. It doesn't have crazy regen capture like the Porsche so all those energy from a heavy EV had to be processed by the physical brakes. In the Taycan the physical brakes literally are just helpers, with up to 0.4g deceleration and 260kW of braking power from the EV motors. 

    What I didn't like:

    - interior space : the back seats are small and the boot is ridiculous. On the other hand, the driving position is good and I like the fact it feels a bit cramped at the front, much more like in a "sports car". It's no SUV or crossover for sure.

    It is a small car, that's why I compared it to like a 3 series. 

    - the seats: very uncomfortable IMHO. The seats are way too hard for my liking, especially for a "family car"

    The redeeming quality of the firmer seat is that they feel fine for longer drives. And they aren't too supportive however.

    - infotainment : not intuitive to say the least ; no apple CarPlay, which is a shame.

    Yup, and also there is no shortcut buttons to navigate, literally everything has to start from the home page.

    - sound system : very bassy for HK (I may a bit harsh on this one).

    Good enough for that price range. 

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    3mph:

    Did you ever drive the Polestar 1?

    I drove one while I was on a Road & Track magazine boondoggle in NorCal.

    It was pretty fast and nicely appointed.  I didn't like to considerable torque steer in the front end that "tightened" the steering response to make it unpleasant to drive hard.


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    Mike

    918 Spyder + Taycan Turbo + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + BMWs (Z8 + 3.0 CSi) + Bentley Arnage T


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    W8MM:
    3mph:

    Did you ever drive the Polestar 1?

    I drove one while I was on a Road & Track magazine boondoggle in NorCal.

    It was pretty fast and nicely appointed.  I didn't like to considerable torque steer in the front end that "tightened" the steering response to make it unpleasant to drive hard.

    Any news or eta about the Lucid you ordered?  Can’t wait to hear your take on it. 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Thanks for your impressions!  Smiley


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Leawood911:
    W8MM:
     

    Any news or eta about the Lucid you ordered?  Can’t wait to hear your take on it. 

    The Lucid order is stalled waiting on answers related to the windshield/canopy microwave transmission characteristics. 


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    Mike

    918 Spyder + Taycan Turbo + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + BMWs (Z8 + 3.0 CSi) + Bentley Arnage T


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    https://youtu.be/IExib0QwWuA


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    IMG_0816.JPG

    The Taycan Cross Turismo is a dream doing the twisties, it absolutely handles like a Porsche. 

    On a separate note, I did my trip to my track with a buddy in Model 3. We got an apple to apple comparison on range and charging speed, It was a 2 stopper, could have made it with only one stop but we need to go somewhere after checking in at hotel so a 2nd charge is preferred to have some range.

    We started off with full charge each, got to our first stop and I was left with 52%, Model 3 was at 65%. Taycan got to 80% about 3 mins quicker than the Model 3. I was at. Electrify Canada 350kW station while the Tesla is next block over at a Supercharger station.

    Next stop I was at 29% while the Tesla was at 38%. Again the Taycan finished well before the Tesla to get to 80%. Didn't time this one but more than enough time to cover a bathroom break and buying water. 

    Because of the locations of the fast chargers, there is zero advantage from Tesla's greater range, it couldn't make it in one go as we have to climb a couple step hills. The Tesla even lose out on charging time. 

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Just finished my road trip to Denver. Couple notes - to charge quickly the car needs to know it is heading for a supercharger so it can precondition the battery.  
    It helps if the battery is at less than 20%. 
    Having supercharging available every 150 - 200 miles right off I-70 is very handy. It allows you to stay in the charging sweet spot from 10 - 60%.  This way the slowest charging is eliminated. I stopped four times for 15 minutes not including the full charge from home. Never charged below 100 kw or 400 miles per hour. The highest I got was 1100 miles per hour briefly from a 250 kw charger.  If not for Teslas excellent coverage and zero wait times this rapid charging with frequent stops (every 2.3 hours or so) it would take much longer.  I also could have arrived with more of a charge and let it charge to 90% each time and my overall charging time would have doubled.  It is simple to charge stupidly and waste time. Takes some knowledge to get it right.  When comparing charging speeds using two divergent types of EVs and stopping at the same distances will not always be the best strategy for each vehicle.  
    Cost of supercharging is roughly 10 cents per mile. Charging at home is one cent per mile. Hence almost all my driving is charged at home. 
    Curious if you and the Model3 did a little stoplight challenge. 
    And post some pics of JV.  I would be curious why he named his bar in Montreal ‘new town’. I get his last name but also the hate of English by some in Quebec. Just interested. 
    Take care and happy motoring. 
     

    btw I used autopilot not fsd for every mile of highway driving. So relaxing at 80 mph. 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Guys, were the charging stations crowded?  Did you have to wait before hooking up to a charger?


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Leawood911:

    Just finished my road trip to Denver. Couple notes - to charge quickly the car needs to know it is heading for a supercharger so it can precondition the battery.  
    It helps if the battery is at less than 20%. 
    Having supercharging available every 150 - 200 miles right off I-70 is very handy. It allows you to stay in the charging sweet spot from 10 - 60%.  This way the slowest charging is eliminated. I stopped four times for 15 minutes not including the full charge from home. Never charged below 100 kw or 400 miles per hour. The highest I got was 1100 miles per hour briefly from a 250 kw charger.  If not for Teslas excellent coverage and zero wait times this rapid charging with frequent stops (every 2.3 hours or so) it would take much longer.  I also could have arrived with more of a charge and let it charge to 90% each time and my overall charging time would have doubled.  It is simple to charge stupidly and waste time. Takes some knowledge to get it right.  When comparing charging speeds using two divergent types of EVs and stopping at the same distances will not always be the best strategy for each vehicle.  
    Cost of supercharging is roughly 10 cents per mile. Charging at home is one cent per mile. Hence almost all my driving is charged at home. 
    Curious if you and the Model3 did a little stoplight challenge. 
    And post some pics of JV.  I would be curious why he named his bar in Montreal ‘new town’. I get his last name but also the hate of English by some in Quebec. Just interested. 
    Take care and happy motoring. 
     

    btw I used autopilot not fsd for every mile of highway driving. So relaxing at 80 mph. 

     

    Haha no pics with Jacques, we don't take selfies every time Smiley He is a friend first and celebrity second, haven't seen him in person in 3 years due to covid. There are some pics of him from the press when he did karting clinic for the kids however.

    Both the Tesla and myself were on the car's navigation so both were already preconditioned. Model 3 peaked at 150kW then quickly dropped down to 100kW and then even lower, while the Taycan just keep ripping along at 220kW+ then maintained 190ishkW for most of the session when it ramp down to 100kW nearing 80kW. There is no comparison in charging speed, Taycan simply can draw much more power from the stations in the same amount of time, it's not even close. No one here pay attention to 'miles per minute charge' as that metric is meaningless. Even in the same car 2 different drivers will get different mileage out of the same charge. I routinely do over 410km per full charge in the Taycan while my gf struggle to get above 370km. Road condition will also make it meaningless. There is this one stretch of uphill climb, about 7km in length, it's about 3km away from the chargers. From the bottom of the hill to the top cars would lose 10% charge right there, but on the other side the downhill section which goes on for about 30km, we get about 4% back. How do you calculate that mileage on a per minute charge basis? You can't. 

    As for on road ripping, I lost the Model 3 after a couple corners and it caught up in straights when I let it off, rinse and repeat for basically the whole trip. Me road racer not drag racer, much prefer lateral Gs than longitudinal Gs.Smiley


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Wonderbar:

    Guys, were the charging stations crowded?  Did you have to wait before hooking up to a charger?

     

    All depends on day of the year and time of the day.

    We were lucky to arrive early on a Friday morning, so chargers are pretty much empty.

    But it's not unheard of on a busy long weekend for a giant line up at chargers. Since charging is a lot slower than filling up with gas, cars would be waiting on hours just to get a charge. Few years ago before covid, Reporters came out and did a story on a couple in their Model 3 waited 6 hours because they can charge and ruined their long weekend. 

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    IMG_0802.JPG

    Here is another problem with EVs. Some people have no charging etiquette. To the right of my car there is 2 empty Tesla chargers, but this Model Y decided that he would much rather ICEing other CCS cars and take the Porsche Destination charger instead. 

    IMG_0819.JPG

    But the CCS people are a lot nicer. The blue Kona took up the CCS/CHAdeMOS combo station as the car doesn't take too fast a charge. The Mustang Mach-e can't go much above 150kW so it went for the 150kW station. Same deal with the VW ID4, leaving the faster 350kW one free for me to pull in. I went in last but I left first, getting from from 38% to 85% faster then those other cars getting from 50ish% to 80%. 

    We all chatted while waiting and they all indicated that there is no point of them taking up the 350kW station and be that asshole. Cost is also another issue. It cost $0.57 a minute for the 350kW but $0.27 for the 150kW. It's free for me as Porsche is paying for the 1st year of fast charging. 

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    If you get more miles per kw (range) you can afford to charge from 10% to perhaps 60% where charging speeds are fast and with that 60% still get as far as the fast charging car can get with a 90% charge. If you want to make the Tesla charge slow then use a non Tesla charger which makes preconditioning difficult, roll in with more than 20% (cause your buddies need a charge) and then charge past 60% when the speed drops way off. 
    And sorry but miles per hour charged is a valid metric. It takes into account all the variables. Basically you can’t cheat by hiding range or economy or in the case of tesla - slow charging speeds. 
    Does not sound like you could stay with the model3 in the straight line from a stop.  Interesting.  
    btw all new Tesla chargers are 250 kw.  The cost is around 10cents per mile. They charge by the kw NOT by the time spend charging. 
    Except for once at the GP in Austin which was very busy I have never had to wait in line at a super charger or seen more than half of them used. These will be known as the good old days I’m afraid so don’t by any Teslas. 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Leawood911:

    If you get more miles per kw (range) you can afford to charge from 10% to perhaps 60% where charging speeds are fast and with that 60% still get as far as the fast charging car can get with a 90% charge. If you want to make the Tesla charge slow then use a non Tesla charger which makes preconditioning difficult, roll in with more than 20% (cause your buddies need a charge) and then charge past 60% when the speed drops way off. 
    And sorry but miles per hour charged is a valid metric. It takes into account all the variables. Basically you can’t cheat by hiding range or economy or in the case of tesla - slow charging speeds. 
    Does not sound like you could stay with the model3 in the straight line from a stop.  Interesting.  
    btw all new Tesla chargers are 250 kw.  The cost is around 10cents per mile. They charge by the kw NOT by the time spend charging. 
    Except for once at the GP in Austin which was very busy I have never had to wait in line at a super charger or seen more than half of them used. These will be known as the good old days I’m afraid so don’t by any Teslas. 

     

    That's the problem with Tesla, it's only charging fast in a small specific range, for a short period. Everyone else charge fast at whatever SoC 🤷🏻‍♂️. 

    And no, the Tesla went to Tesla stations while I head over to Electrify Canada ones. So that argument is invalid also. 

    Miles per min charged doesn't calculate the terrain. It doesn't see what's the next leg of the journey looks like, it's only predicting based on some data the car had stored. Maybe in the flats in KC it's very predictable, but not everywhere is flat. Out here it's hilly, it's always up and down up and down. Literally pointless to do that prediction at a charging station.  One aren't going whatever miles the car is showing when charging every minute. Like I said, literally mile and half down the road is an uphill climb, you aren't making the usual mileage there. Nor the downhill section after either.

    But actually kW instead of miles going in is very useful, it shows the car's strength in taking in charge quickly or slowly, the car can't hide behind some artificial government mileage numbers. So what if the Model 3 is more 'efficient' in using the electrons? Pointless when my Taycan while using more, can put in more in a shorter time and finish up quicker? That's the key to going electric. Make the car behave as close to normal car as possible. Electricity is cheap, doesn't matter one uses an extra 5kWh or whatever doing the same distance. 

    As for straight-lines, hmm, no one here do that, at least not my friends, we slow down on straights as that's where cops are setup. We let all the Tesla idiots take the bait and get pulled over. They always do as they get frustrated getting left behind in corners and they want to get ahead again. 


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    You do realize the Model3 can beat a bmw m3 around a track driven by pros.  Maybe you need me as the other driver in the twisted.  As for idiot Tesla drivers - the beauty is I can launch all the time and do. Even in front of cops. It attracts zero attention. If I was in the turbo is certainly would stand out like an idiot.   Nice try, lots of flak so I must be over the target. 
    I’ll let everyone here decide if miles per hour is not a valid measure. Just remember miles per gallon does not know the terrain either. Frankly your logic defies me. It seems like a wordy attempt to confuse a simple number which does not fit your narrative. 
    I never argued that Tesla chargers did not slow down a lot. What I pointed out is there are so many of them that if you charge less you can still go the same distance. If distance and time are not important then this chat is pointless. Since the Tesla superchargers, which are now 250 kw, are spaced around 150 miles apart on highways one can capitalize on short charges frequently in exchange for sitting while charging is slowing down and not as effective.  


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    You pay attention to your mpg figure when you drive? I don't. When it's empty I go fill up. Done. Do it enough times in the same car and you know how far a car can go. I have had Ferraris that barely do 200km a tank to a Panamera turbo S that can do almost 900km. 

    And if mpg is such an important number, why doesn't gas station pumps shows miles per minute pumped? Case closed. 

    Miles per minute charged is a metric invented by Elon to highlight his Tesla's nice good EPA numbers. Quite sure me and you both driving your Model 3 will get wildly different range and on whose range does the car report for miles per minute charged? Or was it from the car's historical data only? Would it be possible you get 15 miles from that one minute of charge while I get 10 miles or 20 miles? How would that be useful btw? 

    Model 3 can go faster than an M3 that one time on one track by one guy. Cool. Very cool. Is that all you have to go by? I can go faster around corners in my Honda pickup truck than that Tesla too. 

    Even more cool when you down there or somewhere where Teslas put 250kW Superchargers close by, even when Elon's car can only sustain 250kW for a couple minutes before throttling and getting to 250kW also needed to be at a specific power level. Up here Tesla only put their 150kW units at specific locations, where Electrify Canada also put their  350kW units. There are also another network that puts 200kW units in just about the same places also. In my province, where the EV take up rate is much higher than anywhere in North America, there is no advantage of 'more' Tesla chargers. 

    My old e-Tron can do 150kW literally all day no matter the charge level of the pack. And at the same charge level my Taycan is charging at a much faster rate than Teslas also. 🤷🏻‍♂️ Hyundais and KIAs are also charging faster than Teslas, so are the Audi e-Tron GTs. At best, current Teslas are charging about as fast as Ford Mustang Mach-e's. Tesla's rapid ramp down of charging rate is a result of their old tech 400V system overheating, and also software calibrations. Mustang Mach-e's are still on 400V yet they can do much faster overall rate even when Tesla's are touching a higher peak rate, which is just a headline grabber number, it can't be sustained for any reasonable time to be useful.

     

    That's called reality, it's quite a bit different than Elon's version of a dream. 

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    You must have a word salad farm.  I will stop now since this is a Tacan thread even though your rationale is priceless.  Cheers


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    It's ok if you can't handle truth being told to you smiley

    But I will give you this, for charging network, Tesla is still the best. It just works. One app does it all, no fuzz no nothing.

    When I go charge my cars, just for Electrify Canada network, I can use the Electrify Canada app and pay, or I can go through the Porsche app for my Porsche or Audi app for Audi to get free charging for the first year. I think Ford does the same thing with their app with Electrify Canada/Electrify America stations. So basically a zillion apps for one kind of stations.

    I have another app for another charging network, which also happens to be our local electric company's network partner and maker of my home charger, so I got 2 different apps to use these also.

    Then I got another app for another network.

    Also 2 more apps for couple more networks. Literally I got an iPhone full of apps that just for charging, and they don't always work.

    This is the most frustrating part of owning an EV. Not quite the end of the world, but they still have a lot to do to catch up to Tesla in that regards. But not likely as everyone wants their own proprietary stuff and doesn't like to share.

     

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    I don't understand the concept of charging price being based on how long the cable is connected to your car instead of how much energy is transferred into your car.

    Imagine if ICE drivers were charged based on how long the filling pump was inserted into your car instead of how many gallons of gas were pumped into your tank.

    As I'm considering an EV, can someone explain ?


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    GT-Boy:

    I don't understand the concept of charging price being based on how long the cable is connected to your car instead of how much energy is transferred into your car.

    Imagine if ICE drivers were charged based on how long the filling pump was inserted into your car instead of how many gallons of gas were pumped into your tank.

    As I'm considering an EV, can someone explain ?

     

    It is to deter drivers from staying on the chargers forever. 

    If the charger is billed per energy unit, then it will stop billing after the car is full. But the car can stay on forever and thus blocking someone else from using it.

    Time based billing means there is an incentive for someone to leave and let someone else come up to charge.

    EV chargers are still not as numerous as gas pumps. And they are only on strategic travel locations, so every EV drivers travelling will have to stop at those choke points eventually. 

    They might switch to energy based billing when chargers are as numerous as gas pumps however. 

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Then again Tesla simply charges an idle fee if your charge is complete and you are still connected. First time you just get a warning email. Seems like a much better solution IF you have an actual charging network and logic driving the price.  
    Fyi when determining range during navigation the car takes into account temperature, terrain, traffic congestion, wind speed and weather and car performance. Miles per hour or by KW - take your pick - is very accurate. They just added wind speed in my latest OTA update. Of course they take into account charging performance and only schedule you to maximize charging speed and minimize standing around. It also helps to keep chargers available. 
     

    Regardless - gas pumps are not the same as charging stations. Imagine if most drivers had a gas pump at home - how many gas pumps would you need then? While I get that some can’t charge at home those that do use home charging 98% of the time.  Except for road trips - which makes all this supercharger talk kind less of an issue overall. 
    Anyone planning to install as many charging stations as gas pumps OR more because charging takes a while - is on a fools errand.  There are already millions of places to plug in for level one and level two.  I don’t know the exact number of actual super chargers need but I bet Tesla has a better handle on that number given the data they see. 

     Bottom line -  billing for the time charging rather than KW is outrageous and any rational is simply insulting to everyone’s intelligence. Period.  Just plain silly. They would need to set their rates based on how fast the fastest possible charging speed of any EV - like the Porsche for now. Once a faster one comes along they would need to raise the price for everyone.  Of course if you are not at that max speed you are paying a lot more.  The cheaper or old your EV is the more you pay.  After a couple of years of increasing speeds for other cars your price would just keep climbing because you can’t charge that fast. It is simply not sustainable.  But as long as people are easily confused they can do it. Maybe even convince us what Tesla has always been doing is not possible. Not the first time. 
     


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    You are thinking and talking like a Tesla owner, not a normal average car owner. You just don't get it.

    Gas stations are numerous, they are everywhere, there is no need for people to have their own pump at home. A gas station is always somewhere close. There are exceptions of course. Some people will have their own gas tank on-site, so they don't have to travel far to fill their vehicles on their property. Those that own giant ranches with hundreds if not thousands acres ones. Our track also installed our own gas pump, even when there is 3 gas stations not 5 mins away. 

    This is very different than EV chargers. Public chargers are still few and far in between, and majority of the population doesn't live in homes that allowed them to install their own chargers. You, me, and a few in here are the privileged ones that has our own garage and can install home chargers. I actually have 2 now, in addition to the 40A one that I was using, I just installed a 80A one on the other side of the garage, so I don't have to move cars around to charge, and also be prepared for my incoming F150 Lightning. The 80A charger will fully charge up the Taycan in like 6 hours and not overnight like the 40A did. Like I said, we are privileged to be able to install our own chargers. Those people living downtown can't, they can share some common chargers in their parkade, and those that live on apartments that required street parking also can't charge their car in their 'garage' either. 

    More public chargers is a requirement now, as governments around the world is banning sale of normal cars in a decade or so, all those new EVs will need to be able to charge up somewhere. They can't just move to some place where they can install their own chargers once normal cars are banned. That's not a solution at all. 

    My city is 'very green'. The electric company has been installing lots of public chargers all around the city, and together will some giant Tesla Supercharger sites, plenty here that bought EVs didn't even need to install their own home chargers, they can survive on public charging. While they are paying for the charge, it's still very tiny compared to paying for gas. The last figure is 17% of all new cars sold here are EVs, and that percentage is still climbing. 

    On my last road trip, had I taken the Panamera, one tank of gas and a bit would covers the 1000km. Our current 94 octane gas is CAD$2.65 a litre, the gas bill would have been just over CAD$220. On the Taycan, I think I spent a total of  55mins at a charger, Porsche was paying for those but at a rate of CAD$0.57/min for non member and CAD$0.44/min for members, that's like CAD$31ish at the top rate, still much much cheaper than buying gas. With price difference like that, not sure why you are so offended by 'high' billing, it's literally is like nothing. I mean you always wanted to compare that rate to your home charging rate, but you can't possibly bring your home with you when you go on a road trip, unless of course you mean your road trip consists of just enough range out of the house and back. 


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    The two things I pointed out are totally valid. 
    1) charging by the minute rather than kw is nuts. Especially if your excuse is to keep people from standing there after charged.  There is no good reason for that. Period. 
    2) believe it or not electric power is everywhere. Most will figure out quickly that the best place to charge is where you park overnight. That never happens with gas since nobody has a gas station at home.  Logically there will be places for even apartment dwellers to charge. If there is room for a car there is room for a charger. 
     

    You go off on there wild analogies - everything from not needing a gas pump at home (who said that about gas) to there is no miles per hour on a gas pump. ( when you rested your weird case).  It has nothing to do with thinking like a Tesla owner it has to do with having owned an EV and charger at home. Period.  So much of what you offer as proof makes no sense and is just more word salad. If you actually stop and read a bit of what I wrote it is not in any way attacking you or your EVs. It is just general logical information or opinion. 

    Let’s be real about charging costs. If one is charging by the KW and the price is consistent and cheaper it will put lots of pressure on those charging by the minute.  This will quickly work itself out thanks to the market.  Tesla opening its supercharger to others will put more pressure on this. Not too much different than a gas war.  We know that if gas is a penny cheaper a mile away people will go there. Your opinion that it is still cheaper than gas fails to take human nature into account but you take so much else that does not matter or make sense into account.  
    If you had your choice between paying by the KW or by the minute which would you honestly choose?  Ps you never addressed the extra money slow charging cars would have to pay under your favorite scheme. 
    Hope you are doing well. Working through a few weeks of Bells Palsy following a brief Covid visit.  Cheers


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    You keep thinking like an EV owner with your own garage charger, not an average car owner out there that doesn't have their own garage. That's why you think your flawed logic is real.

    Most people park their cars at a condo complex parking lot with no outlets, or limited outlets, or with only a few communal EV chargers overnight when they are home, they just can't charge it overnight like you said. 

    It's not a case of don't buy a EV if you can't charge it at home thing. Soon people have no choice but to buy a EV as mandated by governments. The charging problem is real and is coming in like a freight train with no brakes. 

    Of course charging by the kWh is nicer, but that's not realistic right now. EV chargers are still limited in numbers, if it's not time based but energy based, what's stopping you from plug in your car at a charger and go off into the theatre and want a 2 1/2 hour movie before coming out? Your car would have been full in 30 mins, or even 15 mins, that means you could have moved your car and let someone else charge a lot sooner, but no, since it doesn't cost you anything to leave your car plugged in, you caused a unnecessary delay of 2 hours for others waiting to charge. 

    EV charging specs are published public data, people who buy EVs know that information before they buy their cars. If they choose a slower charging one, it's by choice. Hyundai's IONIQ 5 is just about the fastest charging car out there, it's the same price as a Model 3, some people choose the Model 3 because of say FSD or Autopilot, accepting a slower charging speed as a trade off. Others picked the Hyundai because of the faster charging speed, while giving up things like FSD as they could deem those unnecessary. Life is always a tradeoff somewhere.

    BTW, I never said time based charging is my 'favourite' scheme. In fact, I never said anything about which way I prefer. I only explain WHY it is time based and not energy based. 

    For our public charging rate, even the wildly different charging speed, the difference between cost is minimal. While I left that 4 car charger the earliest, and I spent the least time there, the cost would be comparable, as I am paying the highest tariff for the fastest charger, more than double the rate. Those other cars could have stayed doubled my time there and still end up paying a cheaper total cost. it's one of the reasons why those other cars left the 350kW empty and uses the 150kW ones instead.

    As for your question on which, time based or energy based, that I would prefer. Honestly I don't care, the charging cost is minimal, a nickel here 10 pennies the other way. It's just like gas stations along the way on a road trip, when I need a fill up I will just pull in, don't even care if another station 10 miles down the road is 2 cents cheaper. Heck, about the only choice I make when I pull into a town with multiple stations, is which brand they are, I will always go for the big name like Chevron or Shell over something unknown even when I will be paying more. 

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Tesla simply charges an idle fee if your charge is done and you don’t move. It is pretty high. The app also tells you it is happening and to move or pay more. Simple. The speed at which you get power has nothing to do with cost. 
    pretty certain I’d think like me and not an EV owner.  I can see that if all homeowners who can charge at home buy an EV we will have enough batteries for that in about 20 years. During that time charging where you park - apartment or whatever will have evolved a lot. Just like everyone can charge their phone and toothbrush the car will not be a big deal. The huge shortage is batteries.  Anyway in the next decade or so most will charge where they park and not the way we get gas today.  The number of times you will need to supercharge will be similar to what I do now for everyone or the vast majority.  Supercharging EV for most owners is done a tiny percentage of the time.  
    Hyundai is quickly becoming a huge EV player. Perhaps the one to watch.  I would not trade my autopilot for quicker charging given the need autopilot more than the 2% supercharging I do. 
    I know you hate miles per hour but I’m curious if you work out that number for your home charging. Especially the 80 amp plug. Thanks buddy! 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    You talking about Tesla stations, but those are all sorted out now. Idle fee is just another word for time based. 

    The CCS network however do it time based. If they were to switch over to energy based, they will need a idle fee like Tesla in order to get people off their chargers. Which basically changed them back to time based again.

    My Clippercreek 80A outputs at 64A. It's a place holder for my incoming Lightning's 100A/80A charger. And if I ended up don't want the truck, I will get a Porsche Wall Charger which also do 100A/80A charging, basically 19.2kW. 

    The Clippercreek currently can max out at 15.4kW. it's actually more than my Taycan can take in, I don't have the 22kW onboard charger, that should be available at a later date as a dealer exchange thing so I am sort of stuck with the 11.2kW onboard right now. That's 48A from a 60A charger, about the same speed as a hardwired Tesla home charger. Plugged versions of the Tesla chargers will do 40A from 50A., that's 9.6kW. Same deal with Porsche's Mobile Chargers, all are 50A plugged units so 40A max. 

    From my 'empty' to full, which is about 80kWh, it takes ~7hrs to charge up the Taycan. If I were to charge it from ~50%, it's like a 3hr job. 

    So if I based it off 420km, that's 60km/hr charging, 37.5miles. 

    One last thing, you guess in 20 years there might be enough batteries for all homeowners to get their own EV and chargers at home. But the governments are singing a different tune. From 2030-2035, literally everywhere is demanding  car makers can only sell EVs, that's only 7 years away on the short side. Infrastructures aren't catching up that quickly to provide all the chargers needed. If right now on a busy road trip weekend at charging choke points the wait for charging is already multi hours, by 2032 the same places will have multi day wait list for charging. 


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Almost forgot, if we base the mileage off my girlfriend’s driving, and she struggles to go over 360km a tank, the miles per hour charged rate goes down to 32 miles and change.

    one of my friends routinely do 450km a tank, so if we based off him, then the miles per hour charged goes all the way up to over 40 miles per hour.

    Like I said before, miles per minute or per hour charged is the most useless metric there is. Take your pick, you like 32, 37 or 40.


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