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    997 sport exhaust, bad news.

    Went to pay a visit at my dealership on thursday, and had a long chat with the boys from the tech department (I never spend time in the showroom, the salesmen are lying ignorant).

    There are some bad news regarding PSE for the cut out between 50 and 80 kmh.

    In the 996 Gen, it was easy, it was a flapper valve directly related to the tachyometer, so that the exhaust goes back to normal position between 50 and 80 kmh. All that has to be done was to disonnect that info from the Sport exhaust and let the switch on the dashboard take care of it, so that only the driver decides, now I (and other clients) had to sign a responsaibitly discharge stating I was responsible for driving between 50 and 80 kmh with PSE on, fair enough.

    Now on the 997 gen, it not only depends on the speed but directly on the DME!

    It now regulates itself on variables such as speed, revs, and even temperature!

    It is much more complex, infos are taken from the ABS sensors and directly sent to the DME via the new generation Bus Can system.

    Basically, even the top technicians in Paris are desperate (they've has two cars with PSE so far), I quote:

    "With the 996, it was ver easy, now, it's a nightmare! And for the S version, it is the same switch as the chrono sports, so there is no way I'm gonna start playing around with the car! I'm a good mechanic, I am not a software engineer! "

    As RC said, maybe one day, there will be a solution, but definitely not for now!

    I am puzzled, when sport exhaust was mounted on my 996 car, it did have the flapper valves automatically actuated between 50 and 80 kmh (Which is BTW due to legislation, noise legislation are measured at those speeds)
    I guess I could live with it, but I admit too that it is a royal pain in the arse!

    Plus on the 997S it comes standard with the powerkit, I'm just hopeful that a solution can be found, but it won't come from the factory.

    Re: 997 sport exhaust, bad news.

    Very bad news for Carlos...

    Re: 997 sport exhaust, bad news.

    Its bad enough that they have connected it to the Sport Chrono instead of leaving it independant but why does the PSE cutoff have to be tied to the DME, temperature, etc... the ABS for gods sake!!!!! how stupid can that be? its just a CHANGE IN SOUND!! not a precision tunned performance upgrade! its was simple in the 996, it worked fine and owners who wanted it removed were happy becuase it was simple... I wonder who the "brain" at the factory behind this idea on doing this on the 997 was?

    I will not be a happy customer if Porsche didn't provide a way around it since 90% of their PSE customers did it in the 996, and they know their 997 customers expected it.

    This is why I waited 3 months extra for???? for an exhaust with no way around the stupid cut off, or sport chrono dependancy?

    Wonder if you can just rip off every single cable from the exhaust and just have it on all the time, no swithches or cut offs, period


    OK, end of rant, sorry...

    Re: 997 sport exhaust, bad news.

    Rossi, just saw your post, you read my mind!

    Re: 997 sport exhaust, bad news.

    I had the PSE installed by my dealer on my 2000 996 Carrera 4. I had no button on the dash. The technician showed me how to add or remove a vacuum hose from a valve on the top of the engine to make the PSE either full time ON or function with speed.

    Maybe Porsche took some heat for allowing customers to "circumvent" noise level legislation with the approach used on the 996 and had to make the PSE on the 997 "untouchable".

    Reminds me of the Stromberg-Carlson carburetors on my 1968 Jaguar XKE that thanks to the US EPA had NO ADJUSTMENT for fuel mixture.

    Re: 997 sport exhaust, bad news.

    ouch.

    between this and non-existent iPod-connector on the MOST bus, Porsche's looking to incite a RIOT soon, in-house!!

    Re: 997 sport exhaust, bad news.

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Its bad enough that they have connected it to the Sport Chrono instead of leaving it independant but why does the PSE cutoff have to be tied to the DME, temperature, etc... the ABS for gods sake!!!!!



    Carlos,
    When he told me ABS, I was puzzled too, it has nothing to do with ABS going into action, it's just that ABS sensors are the eletronic sensors for all the driving data collected my the car.
    They then go staight to the DME all via the same CABLE!
    The electronics are much much complex on the 997 basically!
    It an vault that none of the local technicians want to mess with.
    Hopefully, Seven will have some good news for us.

    Question for you Seven,
    Say the cut out between 50 and 80 could not be solved, could you live with it?

    Re: 997 sport exhaust, bad news.

    Definitely disappointing...given how promising the standard 997S exhaust sounds, was hoping for a great PSE option....guess days of aftermkt anything/tuners are rapidly ending/have ended....we'll just be happy if our copy of the factory-engineered software program works (and we have full warranty coverage so we can get dealer/PCNA to attempt to debug car as needed at supposedly no cost to us except time and hassle)...

    Re: 997 sport exhaust, bad news.

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Its bad enough that they have connected it to the Sport Chrono instead of leaving it independant but why does the PSE cutoff have to be tied to the DME, temperature, etc... the ABS for gods sake!!!!!



    Carlos,
    When he told me ABS, I was puzzled too, it has nothing to do with ABS going into action, it's just that ABS sensors are the eletronic sensors for all the driving data collected my the car.
    They then go staight to the DME all via the same CABLE!
    The electronics are much much complex on the 997 basically!
    It an vault that none of the local technicians want to mess with.
    Hopefully, Seven will have some good news for us.

    Question for you Seven,
    Say the cut out between 50 and 80 could not be solved, could you live with it?



    Its crazy. But Seven mentioned that the cut off may be disabled by just pluging the 997 to the diagnostic computer at the shop and turning it off, so maybe all this electronics with the PSE has a good side
    Lets cross our finguers...

    Re: 997 sport exhaust, bad news.

    no courage for words......:(

    Re: 997 sport exhaust, bad news.

    Very sad indeed .

    What if you install it aftermarket? do they still have to connect all the wires and so forth?

    When I did mine on the 996 there was nothing involved I just told them I don't want the switch and they just installed the exhausts, period. Are you saying that this is not possible with the 997?

    Re: 997 sport exhaust, bad news.

    What a piece of crap system.

    Re: 997 sport exhaust, bad news.

    Thanks for that great info.
    I've learned more about the 997 from this forum in the past month or so then I would have learned in a very,very long time, if ever.
    Appreciate it.

    Re: 997 sport exhaust, bad news.

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    What a piece of crap system.



    Well, it isn't really crap. Crap isn't connected to the DME.
    Did Carrera S chrono sport package owners ever realize that the engine/exhaust sound changes when they activate the chrono sport button? This is something which I observed over the past weeks.
    The sound of the exhaust/engine becomes a bit more aggressive, especially in the 50-80 kph speed range, somewhere around 3000-5000 rpm, not even close to the "usual" sound effective 5500-7000 rpm.

    So here is my theory: the new PSE works together with the chrono sport mapping AND the Helmholtz Resonator. Maybe one reason why the PSE isn't available for the 997 Carrera.
    In theory, I think that even if the PSE cuts back sound at 50-80 kph, it still will be louder than the standard exhaust. And there is another thing: legal issues.
    The german and other authoroties aren't stupid. They found out about the little tricks, I even saw an official internal document from the german TUEV regarding the 996 PSE a while ago. This document provided instructions how to detect a "manipulated" PSE.

    I'm sometimes surprised to hear people ask "why the PSE and not an aftermarket sport exhaust"? Well, the answer is simple: there is no better sound for the 911. And it was really loud on the 996...that deep throaty growl. Aftermarket exhausts usually had or have a high pitch racing car sound but not that "original" 911 flat six sound.

    Why don't you guys just wait until I get mine in around two weeks and I'll write a little review, a HONEST one.
    There may be a possibility to modify the DME software sooner or later but it won't be as easy as it was with the 996. I wonder if the Helmholtz Resonator can be manipulated to be active all the time?!

    Re: 997 sport exhaust, bad news.

    VERY DISAPOINTING !!!!!!! I agree with all the above.
    But , lets hope...... I am pretty sure a solution will be found as so many peaople want it. There is always a way.... isn' t it?

    Re: 997 sport exhaust, bad news.

    Quote:
    RC said:
    The german and other authoroties aren't stupid. They found out about the little tricks, I even saw an official internal document from the german TUEV regarding the 996 PSE a while ago. This document provided instructions how to detect a "manipulated" PSE.



    Well that may be the truth, but then, how it is possible that e.g. Ferrari can produce cars like the F430 or even a Challenge Stradale?

    (seems to me, that the Italians are vera smart in that aspect )

    Re: 997 sport exhaust, bad news.

    Quote:
    Rossi said:

    Well that may be the truth, but then, how it is possible that e.g. Ferrari can produce cars like the F430 or even a Challenge Stradale?

    (seems to me, that the Italians are vera smart in that aspect )



    That's what I was going to say!!!!, and why ferrari can make legal their engine sounds???,I've heard an stradale accelerate up to the redline, and leaves a 996 with PSE like a "toy car"..its stupid

    Re: 997 sport exhaust, bad news.

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    The german and other authoroties aren't stupid. They found out about the little tricks, I even saw an official internal document from the german TUEV regarding the 996 PSE a while ago. This document provided instructions how to detect a "manipulated" PSE.



    Well that may be the truth, but then, how it is possible that e.g. Ferrari can produce cars like the F430 or even a Challenge Stradale?

    (seems to me, that the Italians are vera smart in that aspect )



    Rossi,
    The 360 has a similar system with a bypass valve, only that valve was dependant on the rpm, not the speed, but it was obvious that there was a change in noise, from failry bassy to a high pitch shriek!
    In the 430, I've been around one all weekend, for the rallye de Paris and it's actually not that loud at low rpm, very different noise from the 360 (but still very nice) so no problem here.
    Now for the Stradale, it's a mistery! But good for us!!!

    Re: 997 sport exhaust, bad news.

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    What a piece of crap system.




    So here is my theory: the new PSE works together with the chrono sport mapping AND the Helmholtz Resonator. Maybe one reason why the PSE isn't available for the 997 Carrera.
    In theory, I think that even if the PSE cuts back sound at 50-80 kph, it still will be louder than the standard exhaust. And there is another thing: legal issues.
    The german and other authoroties aren't stupid. They found out about the little tricks, I even saw an official internal document from the german TUEV regarding the 996 PSE a while ago. This document provided instructions how to detect a "manipulated" PSE.




    Very interesting theory RC, thanks.
    to be honest, I'm still hopeful, the main tech from Paris told me, it's not quite a cut off between 50 and 80 kmh, trust me, it's much more complicated than that and we will just not get into playing around with the DME.
    Can you imagine, they manage to find a way to put the PSE on the ON position all the time, but also find out that it completely upsets the Sport chrono functions and so on!

    Funny, if you read the 997 page on the Porsche website regarding the sport exhaust in the tequpment pages, it used to say I remember something like:
    Regulated by a switch via the chrono sport button.
    Now it ways something like:
    In relaxed driving, normal sound, in sporty driving, PSE!
    Makes me curious.

    RC,
    As always, our hopes are in your hand. And remember, the Force will be with you, always.
    I am hopeful for now, I let Porsche surprise me.

    Re: 997 sport exhaust, bad news.

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    Rossi,
    The 360 has a similar system with a bypass valve, only that valve was dependant on the rpm, not the speed, but it was obvious that there was a change in noise, from failry bassy to a high pitch shriek!
    In the 430, I've been around one all weekend, for the rallye de Paris and it's actually not that loud at low rpm, very different noise from the 360 (but still very nice) so no problem here.
    Now for the Stradale, it's a mistery! But good for us!!!


    Yeah, the standard 360 there is no question at all, only gets loud when you revv it (IMHO no great sound at the 360, 355 was much better). The F430 is already a different story, much louder IMO, no need for an optional sports exhaust.

    But the CS - OMG this car is really awesome. I heard somewhere, that Ferrari declares its cars to be 5-speed with an additional (first) gear just for getting started. So all noise measurements would take place one gear higher. Can that be true and is that the solution to Ferrari's ability that they still can produce fantastic sounding cars even in our days?

    Re: 997 sport exhaust, bad news.

    funny : to pay for noise
    more funny : to pay for nothing
    I was impatient to receive my car ; I become anxious to get it regarding all those bugs...
    with sympathy
    ...

    Re: 997 sport exhaust, bad news.

    I'm looking forward to RC's review. I reluctantly now understand PO's commitment to regulations and all that.

    Personally one of the best exhaust sounds I've heard is the DB9. I went to the London OXO launch and stated up the launch car, one of the AM chaps told me to rev the car, it sounded normal at first, the chap said rev some more, a little higher this time and wow the sound dramatically changed
    Its a pure sports car sound, not high pitched but deep, loud and business like (this was standard issue), I'm not sure how AM do it but it would be the way to go for PO, much better than the not bad, but could be better Helmholtz Resonator

    Re: 997 sport exhaust, bad news.

    After some hard driving in sports mode today, I've totally changed my mind, love the PO sound as it is, we just need a software fix to bring the resonator in at about 3k revs

    Re: 997 sport exhaust, bad news.

    Med,
    That's not a good idea for me. It would be too usual.
    I prefer to hear it coming with the power past 5000

    Re: 997 sport exhaust, bad news.

    Quote:
    cartouche said:
    Med,
    That's not a good idea for me. It would be too usual.
    I prefer to hear it coming with the power past 5000



    OK, compromise...say 4k

    Re: 997 sport exhaust, bad news.

    Quote:
    med said:
    I'm looking forward to RC's review.



    The review is coming earlier than I thought...my PSE just arrived and will be retrofitted tomorrow.

    Re: 997 sport exhaust, bad news.

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    med said:
    I'm looking forward to RC's review.



    The review is coming earlier than I thought...my PSE just arrived and will be retrofitted tomorrow.



    good news, good luck with the fitting

    Re: 997 sport exhaust, bad news.

    OK Med, you're a tough negociator.
    ...Let's say 4500

    Re: 997 sport exhaust, bad news.

    Quote:
    cartouche said:
    OK Med, you're a tough negociator.
    ...Let's say 4500



    agreed

    Re: 997 sport exhaust, bad news.


     
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