Crown

Board: Ferrari Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Re: Monaco Supercars

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Yes. A customer of mine is actually a resident of the principality. She pays no taxes here. There was a massive public uproar when she moved there (how dare she), but I guess it's hard to hold a grudge against a world-record holder . She simply stated what everybody else already thought - we pay too much taxes.

    From what she is telling me, all you need to do is hire/buy a place to stay and then apply. They usually conduct a series of interviews to see whether you are suitable to be residing there. Also, convicted felons can't apply.



    You have to spend a certain amount of time / year in Monaco as well. Otherwise it might get difficult to be accepted as a regular citizen. There are countless numbers of fellow Europeans who rent a small apartment at ridiculous prices only to have a postal adress in town.

    Anyways, back to cars...

    Re: Monaco Supercars

    One sees lots of high-end cars in MC...but have my doubts re: depth of MC (or EU) mkt for new, $200K+ cars....

    Supposedly, in '03, F struggled to sell then-new Enzo (@MSRP) in various EU mkts, incl France (presumably a convenient mkt where a few MC/Lond guys would source Enzo)...only some ?200-250 Enzos were allocated for EU mkt....

    Today, 599 (some 300 units/yr into EU) is apparently readily available @MSRP (w/poss discount/freebies) within 1 yr, for buyer deciding today to spec one....IMO, not very robust demand, esp given how few units/yr are produced....

    Re: Monaco Supercars

    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    One sees lots of high-end cars in MC...but have my doubts re: depth of MC (or EU) mkt for new, $200K+ cars....

    Supposedly, in '03, F struggled to sell then-new Enzo (@MSRP) in various EU mkts, incl France (presumably a convenient mkt where a few MC/Lond guys would source Enzo)...only some ?200-250 Enzos were allocated for EU mkt....

    Today, 599 (some 300 units/yr into EU) is apparently readily available @MSRP (w/poss discount/freebies) within 1 yr, for buyer deciding today to spec one....IMO, not very robust demand, esp given how few units/yr are produced....



    Not everyone is a car nut in the EU . Plus, anybody with an exotic is labeled as a drug dealer here .

    Re: Monaco Supercars

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    One sees lots of high-end cars in MC...but have my doubts re: depth of MC (or EU) mkt for new, $200K+ cars....

    Supposedly, in '03, F struggled to sell then-new Enzo (@MSRP) in various EU mkts, incl France (presumably a convenient mkt where a few MC/Lond guys would source Enzo)...only some ?200-250 Enzos were allocated for EU mkt....

    Today, 599 (some 300 units/yr into EU) is apparently readily available @MSRP (w/poss discount/freebies) within 1 yr, for buyer deciding today to spec one....IMO, not very robust demand, esp given how few units/yr are produced....



    Not everyone is a car nut in the EU . Plus, anybody with an exotic is labeled as a drug dealer here .



    ...or a property developer. A british friend, who lives over here (Austria) told me P-cars are considered a typical property developers car in GB....so he got an RS4 and i got porsche....i love my car!

    Re: Monaco Supercars

    Not true IMHO - property developers love Audi TTs & Merc CLKs...not so much Porsches. Really wealthy property developers go straight for Bentley Continental GTs.

    Porsches in the UK are typically driven by car enthusiasts and investment bankers and all types of unspecified others...

    Re: Monaco Supercars

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    Not true IMHO - property developers love Audi TTs & Merc CLKs...not so much Porsches. Really wealthy property developers go straight for Bentley Continental GTs.

    Porsches in the UK are typically driven by car enthusiasts and investment bankers and all types of unspecified others...



    thanks! while i'm in a completely different business, i want to become an IB one day mýself. so i got the right car, at least. LOL!

    Re: Monaco Supercars

    This is interesting. Is monaco a soveriegn "state" that has always been independent of france?

    If so, then they should a) have international recognition like from the UN, and b) if france tried to absorb it, it would be an invasion of sorts. (fat guys in bikini's)

    Or is it a tourist stamp issuing thing like san marino?

    Re: Monaco Supercars

    It is a principality and AFAIK it is an independent, sovereign state. It uses the Euro for its currency and relies on France for military protection and diplomatic representation overseas.

    Re: Monaco Supercars

    Quote:
    racerx said:
    This is interesting. Is monaco a soveriegn "state" that has always been independent of france?

    If so, then they should a) have international recognition like from the UN, and b) if france tried to absorb it, it would be an invasion of sorts. (fat guys in bikini's)

    Or is it a tourist stamp issuing thing like san marino?



    It has never been a part of Franche AFAIK, and

    a) they have been a member of the UN since the 28th of May 1993.

    b) "an invasion of sort" indeed, as I doubt they have any military except for the palace guards and their police

    They are living on the "mercy" of France, it's just not worth it for France to take control of it due to all the diplomatic fuss that would follow.

    Re: Monaco Supercars

    In fact it almost happened in 1962. The state was besieged by the French army, until Prince Rainier consented to make French residents pay French income taxes.

    Re: Monaco Supercars

    So French citizens domiciled in Monaco still pay French tax? That crazy It makes a total mockery of Monegasque sovereignty if its power to refuse to tax Monegasque domiciled residents is not respected by its neighbour!

    Re: Monaco Supercars

    How about American citizens? They have to pay American taxes in the entire world on top of local taxes.

    (in fact bilateral tax treaties do reduce the amount of taxes paid to the IRS, but still, what a rip-off! ).

    Re: Monaco Supercars

    Quote:
    The Groom said:
    How about American citizens? They have to pay American taxes in the entire world on top of local taxes.

    (in fact bilateral tax treaties do reduce the amount of taxes paid to the IRS, but still, what a rip-off! ).



    So don't pay anything to the IRS. If you've seen the documentary posted on Rennteam a few months ago, they clearly state that income tax is unconstitutional. Can anybody find the link again? I thought it was a fascinating documentary.

    Re: Monaco Supercars

    Yes, US tax returns cover worldwide income no matter where those US citizens are domiciled.

    Well, anyone who deals with global legal matters knows all too well how so many US federal laws are considered by US agencies to have extra-territorial effect. This concept has no basis in private or public international law. It runs contrary to the principle of the sovereignty of nation states.

    Re: Monaco Supercars

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    So don't pay anything to the IRS. If you've seen the documentary posted on Rennteam a few months ago, they clearly state that income tax is unconstitutional. Can anybody find the link again? I thought it was a fascinating documentary.


    Unfortunately, it's a fairy tale. This argument has been tried countless times and the smartasses who tried that have always been laughed out of court. In fact not only laughed, but sentenced to huge fines and PMITA federal prison, too.

    Not paying taxes is not an option, unless you accept you won't ever return to the US, won't fly anywhere close to the US (you might have to land in the US for an emergency, and you'd be arrested at customs), and won't even live in a country that has an extradition treaty with the US.

    In addition, many US expats that were suspected to have abandoned their US citizenship in order to avoid paying taxes ended up on the no-fly list, so even that is not an option.

    Re: Monaco Supercars

    Quote:
    The Groom said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    So don't pay anything to the IRS. If you've seen the documentary posted on Rennteam a few months ago, they clearly state that income tax is unconstitutional. Can anybody find the link again? I thought it was a fascinating documentary.


    Unfortunately, it's a fairy tale. This argument has been tried countless times and the smartasses who tried that have always been laughed out of court. In fact not only laughed, but sentenced to huge fines and PMITA federal prison, too.

    Not paying taxes is not an option, unless you accept you won't ever return to the US, won't fly anywhere close to the US (you might have to land in the US for an emergency, and you'd be arrested at customs), and won't even live in a country that has an extradition treaty with the US.

    In addition, many US expats that were suspected to have abandoned their US citizenship in order to avoid paying taxes ended up on the no-fly list, so even that is not an option.



    Interesting. So what you're saying is that the US will deny entry to its former citizens if it deems it appropriate? So much for the land of the free .

    Re: Monaco Supercars

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    One sees lots of high-end cars in MC...but have my doubts re: depth of MC (or EU) mkt for new, $200K+ cars....

    Supposedly, in '03, F struggled to sell then-new Enzo (@MSRP) in various EU mkts, incl France (presumably a convenient mkt where a few MC/Lond guys would source Enzo)...only some ?200-250 Enzos were allocated for EU mkt....

    Today, 599 (some 300 units/yr into EU) is apparently readily available @MSRP (w/poss discount/freebies) within 1 yr, for buyer deciding today to spec one....IMO, not very robust demand, esp given how few units/yr are produced....



    Not everyone is a car nut in the EU . Plus, anybody with an exotic is labeled as a drug dealer here .



    Funny enough, even in the generally crass US, most ascribe daily-driven F to be those of guys w/"don't ask, don't tell" money in various "suspect" locales ....perhaps 599 will be the first senior statesman F commuter car in relatively legit places like Greenwich/SilicVy/Lond....we'll see....

    My sense is road conds/speed enforcement in EU, ex-Germany, are fairly similar to Eastern US....absurd...and would make many affluent car nuts simply opt for debadged S65/63/600 and driver...and save any rare self-driving excursions for time in S Germany.....

    Is interesting that, just as in US, 1000s of guys in EU/Lond could easily afford any car; prob fly private @$5-10K/hr; have several $10MM++ primary/wkend houses; and yet have unremarkable cars.....prob best illustrates how thin the mkt for $100K+ cars is globally....

    Re: Monaco Supercars

    The UK has a great policy in taxes - when I moved to Tokyo i was employed by a UK company with my salary going to an off shore account held in Sydney by a Singapore bank. I only paid national insurance in the UK and collected by having it wired to a Tokyo account. The Japan government does not tax non-residents who are on assignment : ) Did that for three years until I married a Japanese girl!! Those were the days!

    The catch was I could only stay in the UK for 89 days in any 12 month period - no issue there!

    Re: Monaco Supercars

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    Yes, US tax returns cover worldwide income no matter where those US citizens are domiciled.

    Well, anyone who deals with global legal matters knows all too well how so many US federal laws are considered by US agencies to have extra-territorial effect. This concept has no basis in private or public international law. It runs contrary to the principle of the sovereignty of nation states.



    Need to consider many of the youngest, highest net worth guys in US are tech/hedge fund/pvt equity/VC guys who don't have much traditional W-2 income (more cap gains-oriented, when recognized); tend to be reasonably sharp quant guys; and often retain astute tax lawyers for advice.....

    Capital and IQ can and will flow freely in this globalized, relatively liquid world ...and sharp, wealthy guys can easily choose to live in/move amongst places like SilicVy/Greenwich/NYC/Lond/Geneva, etc to arb unreasonable tax diffces if local gvmts fail to recognize relevance of high-achievers to local economy/infrastruc, etc.....

    Several recent precedent examples exist of shrewd US techies/financiers who have executed legal strategies of temporarily changing nations/states of residence to arb tax diffces....

     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 10/25/21 12:29 AM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    479575 1291
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020) 10/18/21 10:58 PM
    Leawood911
    174780 1150
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 10/14/21 6:25 PM
    bluelines
    68524 382
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 10/26/21 8:39 AM
    Porker
    61975 646
    Porsche Sticky ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera 4S 3/3/21 10:57 PM
    Wonderbar
    47865 336
    Porsche Sticky Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review 10/26/21 3:26 AM
    Leawood911
    47370 447
    Porsche Sticky Porsche extends the Taycan model range (Taycan 2WD) 2/1/21 12:42 PM
    Leawood911
    13075 29
    Porsche Cayman GT4 10/5/21 7:04 PM
    Topspeed
    470905 3587
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 9/28/21 3:25 AM
    WhoopsyM
    387872 3507
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 10/20/21 6:01 PM
    Topspeed
    383263 3919
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 4/28/21 12:26 PM
    W8MM
    349475 3252
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 10/8/21 11:41 AM
    xpto
    319124 2647
    Porsche 992 GT3 10/22/21 10:59 AM
    reginos
    271062 3051
    Porsche OFFICIAL: The new Porsche 992 – a design icon and high-tech sports car 9/29/21 1:59 AM
    watt
    252951 1587
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016) 2/11/21 9:22 AM
    Itsme
    168649 1379
    Lambo Lamborghini Huracan and variants 4/9/21 4:32 PM
    Topspeed
    119092 1225
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 9/22/21 1:28 AM
    Leawood911
    103407 749
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 10/9/21 1:11 PM
    CGX car nut
    94417 1231
    McLaren F1 7/10/21 7:43 AM
    BiTurbo
    82865 209
    Lambo Aventador and SV 8/27/21 2:33 PM
    Topspeed
    72844 698
    AMG AMG GT R 7/8/21 3:07 PM
    CGX car nut
    72652 824
    Porsche Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan 11/23/20 6:10 PM
    Topspeed
    51462 596
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 10/26/21 11:17 PM
    Leawood911
    49588 1221
    Others Bugatti Chiron 10/16/21 4:53 PM
    crayphile
    43112 486
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 6/24/21 6:30 PM
    Porker
    40588 531
    Porsche Olive 991.2 GT3 Clubsport 1/1/21 7:58 PM
    throt
    39447 615
    BMW M BMW M2 Rumors 7/7/21 8:38 PM
    Jim_in_Iowa
    30795 394
    Ferrari 488 Replacement 4/17/21 8:28 PM
    Rossi
    27733 370
    Motor Sp. [2021] Formula 1 10/25/21 8:03 PM
    WhoopsyM
    27419 785
    Porsche GT4RS 10/26/21 7:33 PM
    WhoopsyM
    27236 434
    256 items found, displaying 1 to 30.