Jun 30, 2005 2:41:10 AM
- SpyderSean
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- Loc: Alabama
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Board: Porsche - Cayman
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Jun 30, 2005 1:26:49 PM
- MikeN
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- Loc: Arizona
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- Reply to: SpyderSean
Re: Ruf 450 HP Cayman
Just about everything Ruf offers is something Porsche won't build......no secret there. Ruf can cater to the small all out performance niche croud.....Porsche as a company cannot do it as easily. It's actually a great combination to have....a factory builder of great cars, and a 3rd party vendor devoted to making them all out if a customer so desires. Ruf gets impressive money for their work, and Porsche doesn't have to worry about a warranty, forgoes engineering/tuning costs, etc. It's a win - win situation for both. A 450HP Cayman would be killer....but I'm sure a $30K (if not more) conversion pricetag will be a bit hard to swallow for some.
Re: Ruf 450 HP Cayman
Quote:
MikeN said:
Just about everything Ruf offers is something Porsche won't build......no secret there. Ruf can cater to the small all out performance niche croud.....Porsche as a company cannot do it as easily. It's actually a great combination to have....a factory builder of great cars, and a 3rd party vendor devoted to making them all out if a customer so desires. Ruf gets impressive money for their work, and Porsche doesn't have to worry about a warranty, forgoes engineering/tuning costs, etc. It's a win - win situation for both. A 450HP Cayman would be killer....but I'm sure a $30K (if not more) conversion pricetag will be a bit hard to swallow for some.
I am sure the car would start at over $100K easy. But it would beat the snot out of a GT3, maybe even a GT2, so it may be a "good value." Nothing would surprise me though. 125K? 150k? Who knows.
Jul 2, 2005 10:13:07 AM
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RC
- Rennteam Administrator
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- Reply to: SpyderSean
Re: Ruf 450 HP Cayman
Quote:
SpyderSean said:
I am attending Parade in Hershey.... A Ruf customer told me that Ruf is preparing a Cayman powered by the GT3 engine...which will be tuned to produce 450hp. If this rumor is true, Ruf will build the car Porsche will not. It will be one hell of a track / street car.
Name ONE real race car RUF built in the past.
A RUF Cayman with 450 HP will be a great car, no doubt about it. But not for the track but Alois' bank account.
On the track, power isn't everything.
I have a friend who "fights" old Opel Kadett C cars (Germans know what those are) on the track and he drives a 600 HP 996 Turbo. And yes, he knows how to drive.
Those little beasts have up to 300 HP and more, slicks and a non-compromising suspension setup.RUF does a lot of clever marketing, especially in the US. Over here in Germany, he keeps everything at pretty low profile level. I wonder why...
And finally: 95% of the Porsche drivers out there in the field don't need more power, they need more training.
Re: Ruf 450 HP Cayman
I'm with RC on this one. It seems like the perfect car, but since it's a Ruf, it would be more difficult to turn it into a very focused track car. The reason is that since Porsche races GT3s, you have an obvious upgrade track, just look to the RSRs and Cups and follow what the factory does. A proper track day car isn't judged by what it does stock, but by how well it can do once properly set up. I've heard of a very very fast and capable Ruf CTR2 in the states, set up for the track and all conquering, so I guess anything is possible though. It would just be a heck of a lot easier from the factory.
Re: Ruf 450 HP Cayman
Quote:
Tour18 said:
I asked about putting a GT3 motor in a Cayman. The word from RUF was "not worth it". They have X51 motors in the crate ready to drop in. The GT3 motor installation would be a major fabrication exercise. Just passing this on...
I think "not worth it" is highly dependent on whether you're going to track your car often on R compound tires.
Re: Ruf 450 HP Cayman
Quote:
Tour18 said:
I asked about putting a GT3 motor in a Cayman. The word from RUF was "not worth it". They have X51 motors in the crate ready to drop in. The GT3 motor installation would be a major fabrication exercise. Just passing this on...
996 X51 engines?
Because RUF gets his engines from the same source like other customers do: official Porsche dealers.
Re: Ruf 450 HP Cayman
First to RC, what is your problem? Are you angry with RUF or something? Has there ever been a source for Porsche engines from anyone other than Porsche? I don't know. That's why I'm here. For facts... If you and RUF don't get along, I'll never mention them again. I certainly don't want to get sideways with anyone here because I'm really ignorant about the Porsche world in general...
To Yargk, I've become familiar enough with RUF here that they have no problem telling me my idea is really not so smart. Not many businesses will tell you to keep your money. And then tell you why.
I'm not interested in track work. Daily transportation (I rarely drive in rush hour type traffic) with a twist is what I'm looking for. When I'm too old for the ride, I'll do something with suspension like a Mercedes or Bimmer. But until then, scare me and shake me all you can. My cars are toys. If I need something else in the ride, I drive my truck.
I really like the Boxster. Or maybe I should say that I can imagine what it would be like with 400hp. I'm at the age where it's OK to do irresponsible things. So when the Cayman finally became real... I thought it might be neat to take a brand new Cayman and just go for it and put a GT3 motor in. I didn't press the issue, but Hans said there would be major cooling system and part relocation issues that could certainly be done. And they certainly could do it. But it would certainly be waaaaay more than dropping a GT3 motor in place.
I'm sort of depending on all you guys to decide what is and is not practical to do...
To Yargk, I've become familiar enough with RUF here that they have no problem telling me my idea is really not so smart. Not many businesses will tell you to keep your money. And then tell you why.
I'm not interested in track work. Daily transportation (I rarely drive in rush hour type traffic) with a twist is what I'm looking for. When I'm too old for the ride, I'll do something with suspension like a Mercedes or Bimmer. But until then, scare me and shake me all you can. My cars are toys. If I need something else in the ride, I drive my truck.
I really like the Boxster. Or maybe I should say that I can imagine what it would be like with 400hp. I'm at the age where it's OK to do irresponsible things. So when the Cayman finally became real... I thought it might be neat to take a brand new Cayman and just go for it and put a GT3 motor in. I didn't press the issue, but Hans said there would be major cooling system and part relocation issues that could certainly be done. And they certainly could do it. But it would certainly be waaaaay more than dropping a GT3 motor in place.
I'm sort of depending on all you guys to decide what is and is not practical to do...
Re: Ruf 450 HP Cayman
Tour18,
There are a lot of GT3 owners who absolute love their cars, but realize mid-engine would be better. There are also people with this opinion who still have older 911 track cars or simply haven't bought into Porsche, but want to. So whenever a discussion of a powerful Cayman comes around, it's the track day crowd who are usually the first to be interested in the prospect. Think about all the buzz about the Cayman RS or CS. So the responses from me and RC seem to come from the angle that a powerful Ruf probably isn't the track day savoir. Personally, I think it could be a good car for you though, on the street. It would be like a lightweight Carrera S powerkit with its engine in the middle.
One last thing though, many believe that the GT3 is the car Porsche makes the least money off of. Why? Because it's 100k (cheaper than turbo/GT2) and the engine is extremely expensive. Ruf can charge less for a Carrera S powered Cayman than a GT3 powered Cayman. But I bet their profit is just as big on each car either way (maybe even bigger with the Carrera S motor) and they will sell more cars at a cheaper price point. So who's money are they saving? If you're a track junkie, I think they are just adding to their profits. If you're not, they are saving you some money, but again, also themselves.
There are a lot of GT3 owners who absolute love their cars, but realize mid-engine would be better. There are also people with this opinion who still have older 911 track cars or simply haven't bought into Porsche, but want to. So whenever a discussion of a powerful Cayman comes around, it's the track day crowd who are usually the first to be interested in the prospect. Think about all the buzz about the Cayman RS or CS. So the responses from me and RC seem to come from the angle that a powerful Ruf probably isn't the track day savoir. Personally, I think it could be a good car for you though, on the street. It would be like a lightweight Carrera S powerkit with its engine in the middle.
One last thing though, many believe that the GT3 is the car Porsche makes the least money off of. Why? Because it's 100k (cheaper than turbo/GT2) and the engine is extremely expensive. Ruf can charge less for a Carrera S powered Cayman than a GT3 powered Cayman. But I bet their profit is just as big on each car either way (maybe even bigger with the Carrera S motor) and they will sell more cars at a cheaper price point. So who's money are they saving? If you're a track junkie, I think they are just adding to their profits. If you're not, they are saving you some money, but again, also themselves.
Re: Ruf 450 HP Cayman
I'm not mad at RUF at all. I'm just a person who is sincere and who wants people to see things like they really are, nothing more and nothing less.
RUF is only 60 km from my home away, I had lunch with Alois and his lovely wife and I really find him to be a very nice, passionate and sympathetic guy.
But I also know that RUF is NOT supported by Porsche, I also know that the brain of RS-Tuning, Mr. Reinhold Schmirler, was once his engine mechanic and left him for a reason and I also know many many other little details I can tell here in the public because they are meant to be non-official.
To make it short: like it or not but as much Porsche enthusiasts from the US love to look upon RUF like the Porsche god, he isn't in my personal opinion. But he was and is clever enough to maintain this view in the US. Over here in Germany, we hear only very very seldom from him, he keeps a low profile.
Again: I have no issues with RUF, just trying to set things straight. Same with RS-Tuning, my favorite Porsche tuner: the engine guy, Reinhold Schmirler, is the best engine tuner worldwide, even Porsche seems to have a very high opinion about his engine work. BUT: his brother, the sales and aftersales(!) guy, sucks and this is why I can't really recommend them.
Sorry if the truth annoys or disappoints you. If you had a good experience with RUF, fine. Enjoy his product(s).
RUF is only 60 km from my home away, I had lunch with Alois and his lovely wife and I really find him to be a very nice, passionate and sympathetic guy.
But I also know that RUF is NOT supported by Porsche, I also know that the brain of RS-Tuning, Mr. Reinhold Schmirler, was once his engine mechanic and left him for a reason and I also know many many other little details I can tell here in the public because they are meant to be non-official.
To make it short: like it or not but as much Porsche enthusiasts from the US love to look upon RUF like the Porsche god, he isn't in my personal opinion. But he was and is clever enough to maintain this view in the US. Over here in Germany, we hear only very very seldom from him, he keeps a low profile.
Again: I have no issues with RUF, just trying to set things straight. Same with RS-Tuning, my favorite Porsche tuner: the engine guy, Reinhold Schmirler, is the best engine tuner worldwide, even Porsche seems to have a very high opinion about his engine work. BUT: his brother, the sales and aftersales(!) guy, sucks and this is why I can't really recommend them.
Sorry if the truth annoys or disappoints you. If you had a good experience with RUF, fine. Enjoy his product(s).
Re: Ruf 450 HP Cayman
Quote:
RC said:
I'm not mad at RUF at all. I'm just a person who is sincere and who wants people to see things like they really are, nothing more and nothing less.
RUF is only 60 km from my home away, I had lunch with Alois and his lovely wife and I really find him to be a very nice, passionate and sympathetic guy.
But I also know that RUF is NOT supported by Porsche, I also know that the brain of RS-Tuning, Mr. Reinhold Schmirler, was once his engine mechanic and left him for a reason and I also know many many other little details I can tell here in the public because they are meant to be non-official.
To make it short: like it or not but as much Porsche enthusiasts from the US love to look upon RUF like the Porsche god, he isn't in my personal opinion. But he was and is clever enough to maintain this view in the US. Over here in Germany, we hear only very very seldom from him, he keeps a low profile.
Again: I have no issues with RUF, just trying to set things straight. Same with RS-Tuning, my favorite Porsche tuner: the engine guy, Reinhold Schmirler, is the best engine tuner worldwide, even Porsche seems to have a very high opinion about his engine work. BUT: his brother, the sales and aftersales(!) guy, sucks and this is why I can't really recommend them.
Sorry if the truth annoys or disappoints you. If you had a good experience with RUF, fine. Enjoy his product(s).
That's fair enough RC. I have heard similarly unfavourable things about RUF of today. I mean, when I was younger, I used to read and dream about RUF cars. Now I don't have such high view of their products. What is your view of Gembella RC?
Re: Ruf 450 HP Cayman
Quote:
Grant said:Quote:
WAY said:
What is your view of Gembella RC?
I'll let RC speak for himself, but I have witnessed some things that are "unfortunate" with Gemaballa cars in the US. I would avoid them, but that's just my opinion.
I think I can't add anything more...
Re: Ruf 450 HP Cayman
Gosh guys, and especially RC, my apologies for the blunt response to RC. Like I said, I come here for facts. Regardless what I may see, or hear, or whatever; you guys are the truth when it comes to Porsche things (in my opinion). That was rude of me to throw that out at RC like that...
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