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    Re: Tesla

    Western Europe BEV 2020 new car registrations...  C7BEAB03-A272-4B0C-AF73-D01AEAA5AA36.gif


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:
    CGX car nut:

    Richard Parry-Jones: cost parity between EVs and ICE cars will be “about 2026” | Autocar

    “I think the best way for the industry to secure the value of the vehicles going forward is to make damn sure that the real-world emissions of the engines we’re selling are very good and meet the goals of city leaders," he said.

    “We’ll probably see a difference in demand for ICE vehicles in cities versus outside cities. I can imagine people in cities with maybe higher taxation, congestion charges, pollution charges; these will disincentivise second-hand buyers from buying those cars in cities. But in rural areas, where air quality demands are much lower, the demand will be quite high, so I could see regional separation for the demand pattern going forward.” 

    Parry-Jones also insists that the problem of ’embedded CO2’ in the production of EVs - usually greater than an equivalent ICE car - is “not really something you can technically influence”.

    “It’s bound to the chemistry of the cells we're using; they're hungry for energy in terms of manufacturing. Most of it is in the cell production phase, not in the raw materials. So getting lithium and other materials isn't a major contributor. 

    “The only way we’re going to offeset that is to shift over the generation base for making electricity away from coal, away from oil and gas and towards renewables and nuclear.”

    OEMs will be paying very close attention to the electricity generation mix of the country from which cells are sourced in future, said Parry-Jones, citing Poland as an example of a country that has a coal-heavy mix, compared with France, which is heavily reliant on hydroelectric and nuclear power generation. 

    “I reckon it will be about 2030 before those generating plant change-overs have had enough effect to reduce the embedded carbon to the comparable level of an ICE engine," he said. "That doesn’t mean that buying an EV is bad, it just means the payback period in terms of CO2 is longer than it will be in the future.”

    If he says it will be 2026 well then it must be so. What a bunch of rubbish coming from experts who are just making noise with guesses trying to sound relative.  There is far more than cost of the car to consider price parity. If you look at cost per mile, safety, insurance, performance, features, resale value - many other factors - price parity is already here for some.   

    Reading your comments points to exactly why U.S. businesses lack international competitiveness in several sectors.  Parry-Jones refers to the cost parity of the automaker since profitability is essential to maintaining a business; however, iIdoubt you really understand that concept.  That is further reinforced by your post above this one.  Tesla has significant process failures as Munro highlighted in his video yet you remain in denial.  An economically successful company, regardless of its highly overinflated market capitalization, does not act like Tesla.  


    Re: Tesla

    I took Leawood up on his offer to let me drive his Model 3 Performance Tesla this last weekend down in the Ozarks on some twisty damp roads. If you haven't tried the acceleration from a complete stop on a steep, damp incline then I highly recommend trying it out the next time you get a chance to drive one. Also the acceleration from a stop across a still damp but flat stretch of road is still impressive. Enjoying the low center of gravity through the turns is nice and the cruise control that slows for corners is a great feature. Also not waiting for the engine to warm up but only for a long enough straight stretch of road to be able to stomp on it was very agreeable to the impatient.

     


    Re: Tesla

    Looks like the model S refresh has been released

     


    Re: Tesla

    Revised Model S (and Model X) with true-motor configuration and goofy half steering wheel with capacitance panels for turn signals, wipers, and gear selector removing even stalks from the interior. https://electrek.co/2021/01/27/tesla-unveils-new-model-s-x-interior-crazy-steering-wheel/  Once again, Musk is overcompensating with 200 mph top end and the 0-60 dash under 1.99 seconds.  Quarter mile time is 9.23 seconds, hitting the trap at 155 mph.  


    Re: Tesla

    EQS >> S


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    Revised Model S (and Model X) with true-motor configuration and goofy half steering wheel with capacitance panels for turn signals, wipers, and gear selector removing even stalks from the interior. https://electrek.co/2021/01/27/tesla-unveils-new-model-s-x-interior-crazy-steering-wheel/  Once again, Musk is overcompensating with 200 mph top end and the 0-60 dash under 1.99 seconds.  Quarter mile time is 9.23 seconds, hitting the trap at 155 mph.  

    Three motor - 

    overcompensating. I love it. Her tots are too big. Don’t give me too much money for free. It does not cost enough. 
    priceless. I can’t tell if you are happy or think it is just dumb.  


    Re: Tesla

    Didn't someone says touchscreens are super safe for automobiles? I don't see Tesla moved to touchscreen controls for steering and brake and gas pedals. 

     


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    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    Didn't someone says touchscreens are super safe for automobiles? I don't see Tesla moved to touchscreen controls for steering and brake and gas pedals. 

     

    Why have any controls when Tesla has a half-baked autonomous driving system with limited sensor coverage?


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:
    Whoopsy:

    Didn't someone says touchscreens are super safe for automobiles? I don't see Tesla moved to touchscreen controls for steering and brake and gas pedals. 

     

    Why have any controls when Tesla has a half-baked autonomous driving system with limited sensor coverage?

    They are buttons on the steering wheel. Not certain how you define touch screen. Ferrari did the same thing. 
    I love that people still make fun of self driving. 
    I am curious how the new model S will shift into drive or reverse etc. I did not see those controls.  It does seem like a good new entry model.

    Dare I speak of why Porsche went and set a bunch of ‘records’ the other day?  The S plaid (not even the +) seems like a speed freak.  I don’t know about you but I hate begin blown away but a car costing half as much while looking at tons of dusty buttons and fancy stitching.  Especially a Porsche which makes most look like a tool. 


    Re: Tesla

    Your blind allegiance to Tesla clouds your judgment, if you ever possessed it. Attached is a cogent statement on why Tesla needs additional oversight on its particular approach to semi-autonomous driving.  https://slate.com/technology/2020/12/tesla-biden-self-driving-cars-regulation.html


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    Your blind allegiance to Tesla clouds your judgment, if you ever possessed it. Attached is a cogent statement on why Tesla needs additional oversight on its particular approach to semi-autonomous driving.  https://slate.com/technology/2020/12/tesla-biden-self-driving-cars-regulation.html

    Again there is no need for terms like blind allegiance or doubts about judgement. Of course it is not perfect and much in terms of behavior and rules need to adapt as well. 
    Enjoy this guy demonstrating the challenges and the current ability of the system. I use mine on the highway where it is  invaluable.  I don’t have full self driving for many reasons.  It is still amazing tech and it is time to stop acting like cavemen seeing fire for the first time. Lol 
    https://youtu.be/i8qVLmflQjs

    You do realize there are regulations for people driving as well and they also have accidents.  Just try driving in another part of the world or county.  Can you imagine a future where people driving will seem much more dangerous?  Hmmm  ðŸ¤” might want to check current accident stats or go directly to Insurance costs for Teslas (spoiler alert - dirt cheap given the performance) 

    btw - if you want to see how screwed up CA is check out the Camping along the roads and some of the road conditions  

     


    Re: Tesla

    From dinosaur to caveman.  Perhaps after a few more postings, one will graduate to a cave wall viewing imbecile from the era of Plato.  But then again, some here could benefit from understanding the difference between Harmartia and Hubris from classical Greek literature.  


    Re: Tesla

    https://twitter.com/WholeMarsBlog/status/1354674937911341058

    That seems dangerous.

    "Unintended acceleration" crashes in 3,2,1...

     


    Re: Tesla

    Topspeed:

    https://twitter.com/WholeMarsBlog/status/1354674937911341058

    That seems dangerous.

    "Unintended acceleration" crashes in 3,2,1...

     

    These ideas remind me much of the ideas of alleged aviation genius Burt Rutan during the 1980s and 90s.  Rutan became a deity in the home built airplane community based on his aerodynamically efficiency canard platform designs.  Rutan and his lawyers found out that the theoretical benefits of a canard configuration didn’t apply to the real world. 


    Re: Tesla

    Look at that steering wheel! ROTFLOL 


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla

    The major touch point for the driver looks like it comes from a toy.  The plaid+ version is 150,000 USD product.  This or a slightly slower BMW M5 CS or Audi S8?  


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    The major touch point for the driver looks like it comes from a toy.  The plaid+ version is 150,000 USD product.  This or a slightly slower BMW M5 CS or Audi S8?  

    I think you are $10k over.  Even the $120k plain old plaid will be one of the quickest and capable cars made.

    The others would need to cut their price by 50% to sell any product. Is that why you put the ‘?’  I am also puzzled. 
    Forget adding options to those dinosaurs - discounts will need to be huge. 
    Meanwhile the 8 year old S still looks like the new one and will keep getting updates like the latest one.  Starting at just over $80 k even the base model will put a huge dent in the mid size sedans. 
    Personally I think people will put up with the silly steering wheel. Putting gas in a car at huge expense to go slow and depreciate like a rock is much more of a deal breaker than the steering wheel. The aftermarket can jump in and take care of that for $50. 


    Re: Tesla

    According to the Tesla.com website, the Model S Plaid+ variant is $132,990 less $5,500 fuel savings for a base price of $138,490.  Paint besides white start at $1,500; red multi-coat is $2,500.  The 21 inches wheels are $4,500.  White or cream interior is another $2,000.  Finally, adding FSD is $10,000.  This is a 150,000 USD car unless you believe Tesla’s own website is in error. 


    Re: Tesla

    No thanks, much better options out there for that money


    Re: Tesla

    mcdelaug:

    No thanks, much better options out there for that money

    That is why I mentioned the BMW M5 CS and Audi S8.  Whilst slightly slower, those cars are much more desirous for the same expenditure.  


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    From dinosaur to caveman.  Perhaps after a few more postings, one will graduate to a cave wall viewing imbecile from the era of Plato.  But then again, some here could benefit from understanding the difference between Harmartia and Hubris from classical Greek literature.  

    Ah...Oedipus Rex...this explains a lot now. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Tesla

    RC:
    CGX car nut:

    From dinosaur to caveman.  Perhaps after a few more postings, one will graduate to a cave wall viewing imbecile from the era of Plato.  But then again, some here could benefit from understanding the difference between Harmartia and Hubris from classical Greek literature.  

    Ah...Oedipus Rex...this explains a lot now. Smiley 

    Of all the Greek literature, this is the only one you can relate to?


    Re: Tesla

    321120C3-0D63-4753-8EC7-3F50E7737F61.pngCGX car nut:
    mcdelaug:

    No thanks, much better options out there for that money

    That is why I mentioned the BMW M5 CS and Audi S8.  Whilst slightly slower, those cars are much more desirous for the same expenditure.  

    I just don’t  want to pay more to go slower and depreciate harder. There are very few like me and car companies are in love with people like you. That is certain. You are part of that large group causing Tesla to go broke and Elon bankrupt. 
    Look at how you pick every option and still get a pretty good deal. What if you picked every Porsche or BMW option?  

    I think the point is the base price at which you can buy the car is not really a price you can find and a car with no options is pretty bare.  I’m pretty certain every car maker advertises the price after all the most profitable options are added up.  
    Imagine what might happen if the base Tesla is more loaded than any of the cars you mention.  We should mention this so Elon can turn his company around.  
    Look it is up to you to choose what you want. The way you make decisions and how is also perfect and wonderful.  I can see you have put all of you automotive knowledge into the car evaluation process. People define logic in many ways, I hope. 
    Here is a picture of the US prices. A price which you don’t have to argue over and take 10 seconds to buy.  I will allow others to judge if this is the price the car sells for and if selling cars like this is a good idea. 
    I wonder if that $120k plaid model will really hit 60 in 1.99 seconds?  Many think this is totally impossible. Must be we are not counting the roll-out. I’m certain it will be slower than all other cars with the roll out. 


    Re: Tesla

    Doesn't matter how cheap it is, you couldn't pay me to drive a car with a yoke steering wheel and looking like a fool.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: Tesla

    Carlos from Spain:

    Doesn't matter how cheap it is, you couldn't pay me to drive a car with a yoke steering wheel and looking like a fool.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     

    Right. That wheel is begging for the aftermarket. Depending on reaction they may even create an option. 


    Re: Tesla

    I almost got myself a Tesla or a Taycan but in the end, I decided against an EV. Not because of performance but because of driving fun. No sound, nothing special ("just another EV..." according to my son and some of his friends ) and the range...I mean c'mon, even my Trackhawk has a 400 km range and I can fuel it up in five minutes tops.

    EVs are not made for people like me: I have a leadfoot and while some EVs may be faster than my family truck, after 150-170 km, they end up at a charging station for at least an hour. No thanks. This is insane. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Tesla

    The federal government through NHTSA is contacting Tesla about the steering yoke and safety concerns. https://www.motor1.com/news/482845/nhtsa-statement-tesla-model-s-wheel/


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:
    Carlos from Spain:

    Doesn't matter how cheap it is, you couldn't pay me to drive a car with a yoke steering wheel and looking like a fool.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     

    Right. That wheel is begging for the aftermarket. Depending on reaction they may even create an option. 

    That is nearly impossible with all of the functionality of the car added to that steering yoke.  


    Re: Tesla

    Carlos from Spain:

    Doesn't matter how cheap it is, you couldn't pay me to drive a car with a yoke steering wheel and looking like a fool.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    --

     

    Mike

     

    918 Spyder + Taycan Turbo + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + BMWs (Z8 + 3.0 CSi) + Bentley Arnage T


     
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