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Board: Porsche - 911 - 996 Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

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    Driving pleasure?

    Disclaimer: (Don't flame me by saying you're too young and all, and can't afford anything. Im not here for that)

    I'm only 18, so I don't know much about cars driving wise. I love Mercedes, I really do. However, I have found through driving various normal Mercedes A-class/E class that these cars offer as much driving pleasure as fondling a naked woman with rubber gloves does. I would love to have the new '55 AMG models, but even then, with the slowness of the AMG Speedshift I would feel too remote from whats going on between me and the road. The only way to get instant responses from the Speedshift is to buy the SLR!

    Moreover, my ideal characteristics, are quick, full of feel and accurate steering, lots of power, a pliant ride, not too harsh, very reliable as a package, easily thrashable, and the very best manual gearbox. Now, this may be blasphemy but some of these just by thinking, I can imagine are not present in some, if not all AMG models (feel free to correct me).

    However, this board has people who have all sports cars and more, and thats why I need input, so whats it to be, Porsche or Ferrari?

    Re: Driving pleasure?

    Hi Bilal, very interesting question and I assure you, it isn't easy to provide a fully satisfactory answer.
    Unlikely as other car forums, we're very proud of our users that they have a much broader view of sports cars and aren't focused (as some "fanatics") on one brand only.
    I love Porsche, I love AMG and I love Ferrari. All three are completely different cars and it is very difficult to compare them.
    Let me put it this way:
    1. AMG: very nice, refined and very very poweful cars with a high quality standard. These are cars for power mongers and understatement lovers, the perfect Autobahn racers. Unfortunately when it comes to the heart, AMG isn't my favorite. They lack traction, they lack emotion and they maybe are too perfect in a certain way.
    For a 18 year old, a AMG Mercedes is a "no go".
    2. Porsche: if you want a real driving machine, Porsche it is. Drive a Porsche shortly after you drove a AMG Mercedes and you find yourself in a different world. The steering is more direct and responsive, the suspension is one of the best in the world and you can actually "feel" the road in a Porsche, something which makes it really unique. The rear engine design provides traction without limits and the flat six engine sound is something spectacular, especially with Porsche's own sport exhaust. The design could be a bit more spectacular but it is actually timeless.
    3. Ferrari: well, something for the brain and something for the heart, you can't do anything wrong with a Ferrari.
    Some people find it's design to flashy and it surely isn't the car you want to take to your university (some of your profs might put an eye on you... ) but for a 18 year old, definetely THE womanizer, the coolest thing to own.
    Performance is great, drive feel is almost the same as on a Porsche but it needs a lot of money for maintenance and a good mechanic is a vital thing you need on a Ferrari.

    Personally I think that a Porsche is the perfect car for a 18 year old (not too flashy, very sporty) but I have to confess that being a father, I'd never buy my kid a Porsche, Ferrari or even a AMG Mercedes at age 18.

    When I remember my driving abilities (and my driving "behaviour ) at age 18, I feel very very bad.
    So maybe you're more mature than I was at your age but you definetely should be very careful with such cars. Each of them is a real weapon and weapons need a lot of care and experience.

    Good luck with your decision.


    Re: Driving pleasure?

    "Moreover, my ideal characteristics, are quick, full of feel and accurate steering, lots of power, a pliant ride, not too harsh, very reliable as a package, easily thrashable, and the very best manual gearbox."

    we just rec'd an SMG M3 yesterday and it would seem to fit the bill for you real nicely. what a blast that car is to drive - especially with SMG. stay tuned, if you need a 4 door, you can get the SMG in a 500 hp M5 package soon.

    Re: Driving pleasure?

    Bilal,

    A 996TT fits the description perfectly. The AWD allows for much easier control which you will need with the little driving experience you have. I think you would have a tough time keeping a 360 or GT2 on the road unless you drove like a grandmother. No offense - it's just true.

    Mike

    Re: Driving pleasure?

    "A 996TT fits the description perfectly."

    It would if he hadn't said:

    "easily thrashable"

    if "thrashable" means "lively" or "tossable", the TTs AWD will prevent that at all but the most insane speeds.

    Re: Driving pleasure?

    WOW! unbelievable responses. thank you so much all of you, this is why its extremely important to aks this sort of question in a multi-car fan forum. I have to confess, I am not buying any car right now, since maintenance, blah blah blah its just to much at this age, I just needed all your wonderful replies for pure opinion and input. Its just that God willing when i can fully afford these cars one day, I do not want to finance a car and then find its NOT the thing I wanted. Your replies are so informative. I have countless reviews, and by far the most mentioned cars for pure driving pleasure, are 911's and M3's. RC, your reasons for each brand are fantastic, and your comments are definitely true But I'm not actually a ladies man ...yet...
    But Mike, I do drive like a grandmother!

    Re: Driving pleasure?

    bilal, the maintenance on a p-car or m3 is nearly nothing - pretty much just tires. the m3 comes with full maintance included for the first 3yr/36k and the p-cars only need a $200 or less oil change every 15k miles or one year - whichever comes first.

    Re: Driving pleasure?

    ben, lemme put it this way:

    in the UK, insurance for me driving an M3 at 18 is around 5-6000 pounds, and petrol is about 1 pound per litre.

    Around 10000 dollars a year on insurance, and about 1 dollar 60 on every litre, so thats why us Europeans are so tight with money and drive 1.0 litre displacement cars or even diesels, God help us...

    Re: Driving pleasure?


    I am 20, and a car I got when I was 18 was a 95 M3. Its a pretty sweet and fun car. Unfortunately it has an Auto (but no one in my family can drive stick, so if they ever needed to use it...) but its still great. I like the styling, the growl is great, and the horsepower is enough to have fun but doesnt boarder on dangerous. As far as the 95-99 models, they are pretty cheap now used. Same for the M Roadsters and coupes. Tons of fun though. A taste of what it must be like to drive something like a porsche!

    -Matt

    Re: Driving pleasure?

    yeah, E36 M3 is one of my all time favorite sports cars.

    Re: Driving pleasure?

    best place to start IMO, is a Boxster S. Great balance, great feel, quick (not fast), convertible. You can drive it at its limit all day long too. Maintainance is almost nothing and you can get a steal of a deal on one right now.

    Re: Driving pleasure?

    I absolutly agree! (Not only because I started with a Boxster S )
    It's a great car, a fantastic "learning to drive" tool if you take it to the track too.
    Believe or not, I love my Carrera, but sometimes, I miss the nimbleness of my Boxster.
    Otherwise, I would suggest a 964 or 993 Carrera 2.
    Or if you like classic cars, the gorgeous 911S 2L.
    Fanch.

    Driving Miss Daisy

    Quote:
    ... as much driving pleasure as fondling a naked woman with rubber gloves ...



    All I can say is don't knock it until you're tried it.

    Seriously though, I do think you need to work up to these cars. The pace at which you work up can vary a lot but it is still wise to start at the bottom and work up. The 996 Turbo was suggested and it is a very safe handling high performance car but there is still the judgment issue. It won't save you from an error of judgment and power allows more opportunity for such errors.

    I personally think you will learn more driving a slow car at 100% rather than a fast car at 50% -- not that I recommend you try either on public roads.

    Stephen

    Re: Driving Miss Daisy

    Man I was warned as I passed my driving test, first time I might add, that any points on your license and you'll have to do all driving tests again, I took it to heart and now drive like a complete grandma Even my 7 year-old sister yearns me to go faster!

    My comment about the naked woman was not entirely driving pleasure related. Sure fondling a naked woman is nice, visually, but physically not as much fun as with bare hands. In the same way, AMG cars look awesome and so do all Mercedes cars, but driving them is a totally different experience, and not always positive

    AMG Mercedes

    Quote:
    In the same way, AMG cars look awesome and so do all Mercedes cars, but driving them is a totally different experience, and not always positive



    I like the new E-class and the SL but I can't say I really love the design of the S-class, CL or even my wife's SLK.
    There is one problem with AMG: traction. Traction is lousy, absolutely C.R.A.P. . Turning off the ESP helps a lot but after driving almost 500 m with the rear on the other lane (and rubbing off almost 50% of my rear tire wear ), I can tell you that this is fun but very dangerous for people who aren't used to it.
    Today I did a nice burnout in my E55, from 0 to around 40 kph.
    The white smoke looked great but at the next stop light, I earned some strange looks, a middle finger and probably some nasty words I couldn't hear. Never happened in my 996 Turbo, no matter how fast I accelerated from standstill.
    So if AMG wants to improve their cars, they have to improve TRACTION. This is problem No. 1 with AMG cars!

    Re: AMG Mercedes

    RC, you're right absolutely, the problem is not HP figures, but rather putting that power to the ground with 100% efficiency. porsche's have LSD, PSM, 4 wheel drive, and the widest rubber you will EVER see. AMG cars, have ESP and now recently an LSD system. Thats it, and when you're putting around 700NM+ torque to two reasonably wide tyres, with no 4 wheel drive, you are asking for it.

    IMHO, if AMG/Mercedes wanted they could give you all the Porsche chracteristics, no kidding, everything thy lack they could make up, but at the expense of comfort/safety and the risk of losing their 40+year old buyers (no offense RC) , I don't think they'd want to, or be allowed by Mercedes. they could offer instant responses with Speedshift, Porsche steering, low weight and even more humoungous power outputs, hopefully the latter will continue to happen until the day I can't drive

    Re: AMG Mercedes

    The LSD is an option which isn't officially available from dealers, just through AMG only.
    The Porsche 911 even has good traction without LSD, PSM or whatever. The rear engine design has it's advantages.
    Yes, I agree: Mercedes could easily make a car as "capable" as the 911. But this doesn't have much to do with AMG.
    AMG "just" takes the Mercedes standard model and tunes it to a high performance car. And exactly here's the problem of AMG: they get a heavy weight car with at least 400 kg more than the competition and they have to make a super sports car out of it. This never gonna happen because it is impossible as long as they don't exchange major parts with light weight ones (carbon fibre, etc.) which would make these cars extremely expensive.
    The only hope I have for AMG's future is that Mercedes fully includes AMG in the development work of a new model, reducing weight from the start. This is the only chance.
    Right now AMG tries to compensate the excessive weight with excessive power and this might be the wrong direction. 600 HP in a car are great but not necessarily if you have more than 2 tons of weight and if the car lacks traction and needs several traction/stability control systems to put the power on the street, giving the driver the feel of "castration" (at least this is what I feel in my E55...horrible feeling).

    So the problem isn't actually AMG but Mercedes.
    If Mercedes doesn't provide AMG with the right car, AMG can't do wonders or defy physics.

    Re: AMG Mercedes

    Bingo! I wholeheartedly agree. thats one of the reasons why these Kompressor V8's have such high fuel consumption. The problem is, Mercedes thinks AMG is just a "satellite" to themselves, and just a division at best. Right now, road testers/car magazines have little to quibble about AMG cars because they're daaaamn fast but you're right, with the idea that AMG should be brought in during development to make the car even more dynamic before the engineers at Affalterbach get their hands on ready made "cars".
    This is actually a very good theory. Take for example, ABC. Mercedes developed this unique system to make a 4000lb car handle like "almost" a car with 400kg less weight. Now, if AMG had been brought in at this development stage, they could individualize the whole cars handling dynamics by fusing the engine power, ESP and aerodynamics, to make the car truly, an AMG car, rather than a hyped up SL500 or an equivalent Mercedes 500 car. No?

    By coming to this board I really feel I am giving contructive criticism each time to any car rather than betraying my "blood loyalty" to AMG, which is what this opinion kinda states.


    AMG cars aside, you have to admit, AMG engine power takes the laws of physics and REWRITES them. just look at the Zonda and the SLR!

    Re: AMG Mercedes

    Quote:
    AMG cars aside, you have to admit, AMG engine power takes the laws of physics and REWRITES them. just look at the Zonda and the SLR!




    Well, give me a Porsche 996 C2 (less weight than Turbo) with the same AMG engine I have in my E55 and I'll sing Hallelujah.
    My dream car from AMG: a SL 65 COUPE with 1600 kg weight and 4WD.

    Let's see what Porsche is up to over the next few years but they have to be aware that we might see 560 HP in the SL55 AMG by 2005 (MY 2006), not to forget about the upcoming SL65. And if the SL65 gets a LSD, it will be a very very nice car, despite it's weight.
    But no offense taken, my favorite is still the Lamborghini Murcielago right now...can't help it.

    Re: AMG Mercedes

    no-one can blame you RC for your choice, i'd have to agree about the SL65, --- made from carbon fibre!

    you're forgetting we might even see 560HP in your E55 by 2005 o cope with the M5! Right now, the new GT2 with around 500HP ain't too bad, but a bit expensive considering a GT3 is more fun and aurally vocal, rather than a confused sounding GT2.

     
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