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    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    I just ordered another tesla to add to my GT3, BMW 850 and Model S P100D. This is what it will look like once I de-chrome it. 
     

    ECB34F15-7684-4B5B-8618-B64EBBC31E34.jpeg
    D04F78C4-52E0-4C43-BCCD-C35A67AF645A.jpeg


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    Tesla Model S P100d & Model X P90D & 2017 Sept 991.2 GT3. 2019 BMW M850i Convertible. Tesla Model 3 Performance on order. 


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    That’s my spec but I like the chrome.  Will tint the windows as much as possible so blacking out the chrome may make it look too blank. Fun cheap car! Enjoy. Did you get the fsd?

     


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Hey Mike, Musk is calm and smooth because he stokes a bong. smileykiss


    --

    Having everything is nice, but it's even nicer to make sure everything you've got is actually worth having.


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Whoopsy:
    Leawood911:

    Thanks Nick. I wonder how much an ICE fleet costs?  Of course they won’t be nearly as safe. What’s that worth?

     

    My comment earlier isn't even about cost or anything. It's just pointing out the software stuff is easy to fix from Tesla if they do better QA testing in house. 

    Writing software is not rocket science, and literally in universities programming class first thing they teach is watch for memory leaks due to not keeping track of variables. This is not even the first coding bug Tesla has that they failed to correct, the other one is the well know log writing bug

    Still not fixed, so sad... 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    EnglishManInNY:

    I just ordered another tesla to add to my GT3, BMW 850 and Model S P100D. This is what it will look like once I de-chrome it. 
     

    ECB34F15-7684-4B5B-8618-B64EBBC31E34.jpeg
    D04F78C4-52E0-4C43-BCCD-C35A67AF645A.jpeg

    Best color for the 3 . Congrats . You are on a roll lately Smiley


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    My lease is up on my Model S P100D in May. 99% probability of me getting another one. My wife loves teslas so I am sure we will be fighting over the model 3. 
    Then 992 GT3 after that. Will prob get a 992 GT3RS to swap the GT3 out this time around. 


    --

    Tesla Model S P100d & Model X P90D & 2017 Sept 991.2 GT3. 2019 BMW M850i Convertible. Tesla Model 3 Performance on order. 


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    EnglishManInNY:

    My lease is up on my Model S P100D in May. 99% probability of me getting another one. My wife loves teslas so I am sure we will be fighting over the model 3. 
    Then 992 GT3 after that. Will prob get a 992 GT3RS to swap the GT3 out this time around. 

    My wife has been mentioning that she would like a model 3 to replace her Mini JCW . It is the '' cool '' soccer mon  car to have in upper suburban areas Smiley

    RS should be one year after the GT3 ..... you are on a nice roll Smiley


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Leawood911:

    Sorry about my tone. I know nothing about how the Porsche regen works. I do know you can switch it off in the Tesla or at least reduce it a lot. If you don’t use the brake in the Tesla ( one pedal driving) the. you must/may agree that the regen is pretty darn efficient compared to any other solution.  I don’t think they spent much time combing the brake systems because the ultimate goal is to never use the brake. Not a big deal to me but it may be to you. 


    The point in returning cars is not how many you would have returned. It is a point that no other makes dare such an offer. Not everyone buys the type of cars you do.  I think this point is now cleared up. 

    If you know software then you know that there is not enough information in that article for you to speculate about the software issue, its cause or what the solution might be. If it were as simple as you say then ...  Again, your speculation is what I question not your wealth. I’m really not in your league but that’s fine with me. I still get a tiny opinion. 

    Regarding your Audi choice, I am all in favor of you liking it. Not many would not care about the things you care about or dismiss as worthless the features you don’t need like speed or range or safety. Most are a bit different in what they use to determine their car or choice.  I’m happy you like your car. Your points are valid for you and your needs. Mine are just okay for me and of course since I’m a nice guy I like to share my pleasant discoveries.  
    Regarding Elon. I have watched countless interviews of him and I have never witnessed a more calm, thoughtful, intelligent and visionary person.  He speaks very softly and with much command of the topic. His accomplishments are certainly tremendous. I get why someone like that makes lofty statements and set high goals. Including impossible time tables.  Of all the human beings on the planet he not only sounds genuinely concerned about making the world better but he has done a lot to fix it. He is a tireless worked and good father. I fail to see how being impressed by him and admiring his work is a bad thing on any conceivable level. I don’t get the dislike of the guy at all. I should not even like him because I certainly don’t agree with him on many levels like climate change but at least he does something useful about it and does not just play politics. 

    I know this is a car forum. To me that’s anything with four wheels. I did not know this was a internal combustion forum. Smiley  Time to spread the love for all type of cars. 

    Smiley cheers mate! It's all goodSmiley 

    There are asterisks to all things Tesla do that's different normal car company. The return policy is another example. Tesla do direct sales, so yes it would be much easier to have such a return policy as they are the one selling the car in the first place. Normal car companies has dealerships, we are customers of the dealerships and not the manufacturers, the dealers are the manufacturers' customers. Customers are at the mercy of the selling dealer on the return thing. So even if say Mercedes or Porsche or GM wanted to implement a similar return policy like Tesla, they can't as the dealers would be in the way.

    And of course the software thing could be more complicated than that, I was speculating and guessing. But the point is that they should have implement better QA on their software, especially when it is operating a car, not just a video game. There could be serious consequences as all Teslas are literally software controlled. When I ran my company, instead of using all the programmers to write codes and knock them out as fast as they can, close to 25% of them are devoted to debugging. The overhead is much higher but I also have happier customers. 

    It's great that Tesla has entered the car market, they have nice offerings, but one size does not fit all. Which is why it's good to have competition. Audi enters it with a different set of priorities and Porsche same thing. Mercedes will be coming with another different product and then there is the Jaguar i-Pace. Not all buyers share the same priorities and hence not all of Tesla's strengths are a fit for all. For me a e-Tron works better than a Model X but for you a Model 3 is a better fit. Picking something else doesn't automatically make someone a hater. 

    Most of Tesla's customers are very passionate about their cars, but for some unknown reason they feel like if others don't share their view they are automatically a hater. This only happens with Tesla though. Even diehard passionate Porsche fans don't call others a hater when they pick a BMW, Mercedes, Ferrari, etc instead of a Porsche. This can only boils down to us vs them syndrome and that's unhealthy.

    It's not that hard to do brake blending, Toyota been doing it for ages in the Prius, but it's difficult to make the transition seamless. Porsche spent a LONG time calibrating it on the 918. But now they got it and if I don't look at the gauge, I wouldn't have noticed even in the Audi, let alone the Porsches. I do engage the liftoff regen in the Audi on downhill stretches, it works just like engine brake and keep the speed in check nicely.  Simple to engage too, using the peddles on the steering wheel to control how much regen/braking I want. The main reason Eoln didn't put one in was for cost reason, remember back in the days they were tight with money. It's much cheaper to just put in a conventional brake system and use software to program the lift off regen. But now that they have some money in the bank, I seriously think he should implement it, it will just make their amazing range even better and stay ahead of the competition.

    Leawood buddy, we been 'friends' here for so long, there are no hard feelings, but sometimes it's good to take a step back and breath and not get so worked up, as it's only about a car. Smiley

     

     


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    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    nberry:

    Hey Mike, Musk is calm and smooth because he stokes a bong. smileykiss

    Then he is a poster boy for weed!  Seems to help. Lol. Take care. 
    Both Nicks are the foundation of this board!   Cheers guys!  


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Interesting article.

    market-evolution.html


    --

    Having everything is nice, but it's even nicer to make sure everything you've got is actually worth having.


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    nberry:

    Interesting article.

    market-evolution.html

    Not Surprised. I’m one of the happy owners who would not consider ICE any longer. I’ll keep the turbo however. 


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    nberry:

    Interesting article.

    market-evolution.html

    Are you planning to trade-in your GT3 RS? Smiley


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Boxster Coupe GTS:
    nberry:

    Interesting article.

    market-evolution.html

    Are you planning to trade-in your GT3 RS? Smiley

    I'm no where near considering an EV. That said, about six months ago we rented a hybrid and my wife fell in love with it. It's the only type of car she would consider selling her Boxster S for.Smiley


    --

    Having everything is nice, but it's even nicer to make sure everything you've got is actually worth having.


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    nberry:

    Interesting article.

    market-evolution.html

     

    Outside of BMW's 3 series, the Tesla is only taking away sales from the Japanese. But that's as expected as the Japanese cars are the primary target for the Model 3.

    But then again none of the 10 cars I would actually pay money to buy in the first place...............


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    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    FYI Tesla announced it will be building a design center and factory outside of Berlin. European reactions will be interesting. 


    --

    Having everything is nice, but it's even nicer to make sure everything you've got is actually worth having.


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    It's good that Elon goes to the best to find workers to make his cars smiley

    Imagine the outrage had he gone to Tirana 


    --

     

     


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Musk acknowledged that German engineering was a factor in building in Germany. He seriously consider Britain but because of the Brexit fiasco he rule it out.


    --

    Having everything is nice, but it's even nicer to make sure everything you've got is actually worth having.


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Very interesting article on long term operating costs of EVs........

    https://qz.com/1737145/the-economics-of-driving-seven-teslas-for-2-5-million-miles/?utm_source=pocket-newtab

     


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    nberry:

    Musk acknowledged that German engineering was a factor in building in Germany. He seriously consider Britain but because of the Brexit fiasco he rule it out.

     

    He just need to hire German assembly line workers, German engineers, German designers and then also move the HQ to Germany and Tesla should be perfect. 

    Well he could also move it to Switzerland, or Sweden. or Slovakia for that matters. Hell why not Italy.


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    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Upside of this move is that Tesla will be near its potential buyers when Musk will decide (or need) to sell.

    Downside, German manufacturers will be monitoring through espionage or otherwise Tesla's technologies.

    Anyway, it is expected that 10.000 people will be hired. I am sure that VW, M-B and BMW will plant their own people into Musk's network.


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    KWhoopsy:
    nberry:

    Musk acknowledged that German engineering was a factor in building in Germany. He seriously consider Britain but because of the Brexit fiasco he rule it out.

    He just need to hire German assembly line workers, German engineers, German designers and then also move the HQ to Germany and Tesla should be perfect. 

    Well he could also move it to Switzerland, or Sweden. or Slovakia for that matters. Hell why not Italy.

    The interesting question is how a factory in Germany would be funded...

    In China, the Tesla factory build has been largely funded by local (state-owned) Chinese banks. Why did they offer debt finance to a company with such a precarious financial profile and significant credit risk? Well if Tesla runs into financial difficulty at some point (which is possible as EV competition increases) then the Chinese factory will be taken over by the secured lenders, i.e. Chinese banks. At that point, the Chinese government have a factory to build EVs....

    Tesla borrows $520m from Chinese state-owned lenders for Shanghai Gigafactory

    The electric carmaker has signed 12-month credit agreements with three of China’s ‘Big Four’ lenders as well as the development bank for Shanghai as it aims to get its lower-priced Model 3s rolling off the production line by the end of the year.

    MARCH 8, 2019

    Production of Tesla’s Model 3 in China came a step nearer as the electric carmaker announced new borrowing arrangements.

    Production at Tesla’s ‘Gigafactory 3’ in Shanghai has got a big step nearer with the electric vehicle maker having arranged a 12-month RMB3.5 billion ($520 million) loan facility with four Chinese lenders – including the world’s largest bank and two other members of China’s ‘Big Four’.

    The one-year loan arrangement was signed by Nasdaq-listed Tesla last Friday, as revealed by a submission filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) yesterday.

    A subsidiary of Elon Musk’s business – Tesla (Shanghai) Co Ltd – agreed the terms of the loan with the China Construction Bank Corporation, the Agricultural Bank of China Ltd and global banking giant the Industrial and Commercial Bank of China Ltd, as well as Shanghai development lender the Shanghai Pudong Development Bank Ltd. The first three are all state-owned lenders with the latter a nationwide incorporated commercial bank, founded in 1993 with the permission of the People’s Bank of China.

    With Tesla’s Shanghai arm already having drawn down RMB31.1 million yesterday, the interest rate on the short-term arrangement will be 90% of the People’s Bank one-year rate for renminbi-denominated amounts and 1% above LIBOR (the London inter-bank offered rate that regulates loans between London’s leading banks) for dollar amounts. The loan package will mature on March 4 next year.

    Giga ambition

    The credit line will be used exclusively to fund development of Tesla’s third gigawatt-scale facility, and its first outside the U.S., after the company announced in October that it had secured a 210-acre site in Shanghai for a factory that is intended to produce 500,000 autos, engines and batteries per year. Purchase of the site followed the signing of a cooperation agreement with the Shanghai Linyang Area Development Administration in July. Although Tesla did not reveal how much it had paid for the site, news agency Reuters at the time stated similar parcels of land had sold for around $140.52 million.

    The foundation stone was laid at the site in January and Musk said construction work would be complete in the summer with the first Model 3 autos due to come off the production line by the end of the year.

    Tesla is rarely far from the headlines and made the news last week when it cut the price of the Model 3 it hopes will take EVs mainstream to $35,000 on its website on Thursday night. The following day, several media outlets reported on the company’s decision to close the majority of its dealerships worldwide in order to focus on online sales as part of the bid to keep the price of the Model 3 down.

    Yesterday’s SEC filing also revealed that, on Wednesday, Tesla Inc and subsidiary Tesla Motors Netherlands B.V. refinanced the company’s ABL credit facility. The carmaker extended the loan facility by $500 million – a similar amount to that negotiated with the Chinese lenders – to $2.43 billion and doubled an additional credit facility from $200 million to $400 million.

    Some $2.23 billion of the loans, due for repayment in June next year, had their term extended to July 1, 2023.

    Link: https://www.pv-magazine.com/2019/03/08/tesla-borrows-520m-from-chinese-state-owned-lenders-for-shanghai-gigafactory/

    Will local German banks be quite so accommodating and willing to overlook the credit risk? Smiley


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    They loaned Trump money.


    --

    Having everything is nice, but it's even nicer to make sure everything you've got is actually worth having.


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    RC:
    Whoopsy:
    Leawood911:

    Thanks Nick. I wonder how much an ICE fleet costs?  Of course they won’t be nearly as safe. What’s that worth?

     

    My comment earlier isn't even about cost or anything. It's just pointing out the software stuff is easy to fix from Tesla if they do better QA testing in house. 

    Writing software is not rocket science, and literally in universities programming class first thing they teach is watch for memory leaks due to not keeping track of variables. This is not even the first coding bug Tesla has that they failed to correct, the other one is the well know log writing bug

    Still not fixed, so sad... 

    Unfortunately, my generation of skilled software engineers has been replaced by people who had other jobs (like being an ice cream man - I kid you not) and then decided to take 'Visual Basic' courses to become 'developers', because their wives told them they could earn more money. This combined with the fact that offshoring to cut costs (a myth) to companies that don't actually care about software quality, but rather wake up in the morning dreaming about how many extra lines of code / mess they can write, has led to the substandard software you come across in everyday life - from Tesla cars, to Apple iOS devices, to Boeing aircraft (it was ONE line of dodgy code that killed many passengers). From personal experience, if you saw the quality of most code that is written today in the big investment banks you would be absolutely shocked - but as a customer you are not meant to know this. Anyway, back to cars... ;)


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    I know what you mean but this happens mainly because they outsource programming stuff to India and other (much cheaper) regions. This doesn't mean that there aren't very talented and skilled Indian programmers, on the contrary but money rules, so... Smiley

    I met a guy in Las Vegas who was working as some sort of a system admin for various companies from home. Didn't know that this is even possible. Only downside: He needs to be available 12 hours a day but often, he only needs to work a couple of hours a day, especially when there is a problem and he makes good money with it. He was a fitness trainer in his previous job, this is why he looked like a little Schwarzenegger, so I'd never would have guessed his job if he didn't tell me. Smiley We talked about smartphones and software and I didn't get the feeling he was really into this stuff and/or had any clues. I guess companies are looking for cheap working staff, not real professionals. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

     Competition for high paying jobs like mine is pretty intense. While there are many offshore development teams trying to take the work it is still not the bargain it seems to be on the surface.   Complexity is also increasing while tools are being dumbed down which removes the flexibility to write good code in many cases. Control or lower level routines is lost in the process of abstraction so results are often not clear.  Many factors play a role but like any industry there is constant change and not all of it good.  All a computer can do is store, retrieve and compare. We have come a long way doing those three things.   Cheers


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Well.

    Another forum taken over by cult Tesla religious fanatics, they make jihadists look like very reasonable and tolerant people.

    I can’t believe that so many smart guys like Whoopsy or RC got suckered into this idiotic and pointless exchange with these clowns.

    Total waste of time, your arguments and facts are falling on their deaf ears, I doubt they even pay any attention to it, blinded by their unconditional love and servitude to god musk.

    Opening my umbrella......

     


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    absent:

    Well.

    Another forum taken over by cult Tesla religious fanatics, they make jihadists look like very reasonable and tolerant people.

    I can’t believe that so many smart guys like Whoopsy or RC got suckered into this idiotic and pointless exchange with these clowns.

    Total waste of time, your arguments and facts are falling on their deaf ears, I doubt they even pay any attention to it, blinded by their unconditional love and servitude to god musk.

    Opening my umbrella......

     

    Smiley I think an intelligent discussion with arguments, valid or not, is always a good thing. People learn, people think...discussions are always valuable, even if they seem pointless. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Christian, as they say, if you have nothing to say or add to a discussion attack others in the discussion. I'll just give Absent a pass assuming he is having a bad day.


    --

    When you're going through hell.....keep going.


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    while this Taycan vs Tesla topic is getting very boring to read, I am surprised to see people getting upset or personal about a car discussion?!?

    it's just a car, buy what you like and who cares what your neighbours or friends are driving.

    there is never one car in my garage that can fully satisfy all my driving needs anyway, so why get so emotional about it. yes


    --

    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S;  2019 Speedster
     


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Title of the forum?  Seems to be okay. My comment, which I assume he reacted to, did not even mention Tesla. Sad day for someone. 


     
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