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    M5 to replace my 997S

    Well, I've had a great time withm my 997S since buying it in 2005, but with small kids its time to move on to something more practical that will serve as an every day driver which can also accomodate a baby seat in the back. I know I can get a baby seat in the 997, but its simply too cramped to be of use on anything but a short journey.

    Im looking for something with great performance, a bit of room to accomodate kids and gear - will not need to be a track star as I have that front already covered. Have been test driving a few vehicles, and its decison time. Dont want to spend any more than $100k.

    Cayene Turbo is too much money imho, and Im not sold on the look either. E63 AMG is quick, but I didnt think that the drivability was that good beyond straight line performance. Have looked at the various SUV's such as the Range Rover and Merc GL - but want something quicker. ML63 looks scrunched up. Jeep SRT8 is quick, but scared the heck out of me on the test drive as it didnt corner well at all (versus everything else Ive driven) on a highway on ramp and generally felt unstable.

    Concluding that the M5 with new 2008 SMG system is the way to go (sounds like the bugs have been worked out and the test drive went fine but Im not expert with this gearbox). Enjoyed driving the car, and with the research Ive done although you can get a 6 speed manual, sounds like it has a few cooling problems if driven hard which causes the management system to rev limit the engine. Also, as the wife will drive the new car having a semi-auto is a plus.

    Dont meant to start a 997 bashing thread - very happy with mine but I need something practical and dont want to have a garage full of cars (wife has an SUV so that front is covered).

    Before plonking down the money this week, interested if anyone has any real world ownership experience of the 08 M5, or any other suggestions?

    Thanks.

    Re: M5 to replace my 997S

    mini cooper s convertible for daily driver and to take kids around, not for medium/long trips obviously

    Re: M5 to replace my 997S

    I think for a "family" car you're not going to go wrong with the M5 IMO. I would however, contemplate the RS4 which is soon to be replaced with the RS5 or 6, not sure as I have not been following developments. You should get an RS4 for a good price though. They would be my first options I think.

    Re: M5 to replace my 997S

    Sorry to say but I think the M5 is one of the least attractive vehicles made today. (The Z4 also gets special mention)

    If you were looking at SUVs then think about the new Cayenne Turbos or the ML63. Lots of room for the kids plus the performance/handling of a sports car. (and as an added benefit, not being hideous like an M5)

    Re: M5 to replace my 997S

    I think with a baby seat in the back you will find the BMW to be cramped also. Checkout the M5board. Reliability is not their reputation either.

    Maybe you should look at a one year old 7 series. That way someone else has paid its the depreciation.

    Kids and cars are never easy!

    Re: M5 to replace my 997S

    If you can wait a little longer I would put the upcoming AUDI RS6 in my list too.

    Franfurt Auto Show is in September and probably we'll be seeing the RS6 around XMas in the U.S.

    Re: M5 to replace my 997S

    I love the M-5 and sadly did not care for the M-6 just did not like the way it felt.

    Re: M5 to replace my 997S

    I think the M5 is a good choice. I would check out the Quatoporte (spelling?) as well. I have not driven it but the reviews are great and a terrific looking car.

    Re: M5 to replace my 997S

    Quattroporte

    Re: M5 to replace my 997S

    Flashman,
    I like the M5 but I hope for your sake they have worked out the bugs. When I sold my '02 C4S I got a 745i followed by a 550i. Both! Yes both were bought back under the lemon law. Of the three people I know with M5's only one has escaped major problems( things like having engines with bad seals and defective trannies needing replacement).

    I know what I say is anecdotal but be careful.

    Re: M5 to replace my 997S

    M5....would consider its tq curve/fuel tank capac vs your local daily driving conds; not clear '08 SMG is debugged yet; crash test data on 5-series is lackluster....BMW has offered notably cheap $0 down, 2 yr leases on M5 since launch...prob not b/c they are a non-profit org....

    May want to also drive/consider S550 w/optional ABC susp (Airmatic is std)....perhaps highest overall active/passive safety of any car/SUV today...arguably, S550 is best overall <$100K family SUV when evaluating "risk-adjusted" perf/utility...but will likely have an image issue in most US suburban areas (let alone NC) for a younger guy to use a new S550 as a family hauler/beater car...SUV's and BMW's tend to be more socially acceptable....

    Re: M5 to replace my 997S

    Have you looked at the Audi S8? I preferred it.

    Re: M5 to replace my 997S

    I guess it's a matter of taste. Personally I'd go for the MB 63 AMG, but I'd also consider the Audi S6 or S8.

    What didn't you like about the Mercedes, I've had some serious driving time in one of those and didn't find any fault with it...

    Re: M5 to replace my 997S

    Quote:
    JohnJohn said:
    I guess it's a matter of taste. Personally I'd go for the MB 63 AMG, but I'd also consider the Audi S6 or S8.





    Sold the M5 after 2 years ownership, went for the S8, could not be happier. As a total package, I like the S8 so much better than the M5 although less evo. Had many breakdowns in the M5, and 2008's still do break down.

    Re: M5 to replace my 997S

    Quote:
    MSB said:
    Quote:
    JohnJohn said:
    I guess it's a matter of taste. Personally I'd go for the MB 63 AMG, but I'd also consider the Audi S6 or S8.





    Sold the M5 after 2 years ownership, went for the S8, could not be happier. As a total package, I like the S8 so much better than the M5 although less evo. Had many breakdowns in the M5, and 2008's still do break down.



    100% agreed. The S8 (or, alternatively, W12) is much more refined than the M5.

    Also, the M5 is not that much quicker than the S8 or W12 in real life. The M5/M6 gains about 150m up to the Audi's top speed. I can easily live with those 150m while enjoying the high-end Audi interior and the excellent B&O sound system

    P.S.: If you still prefer a 5 series I would also take a very close look at Alpina's B5. I would always prefer the B5 to the M5.

    Re: M5 to replace my 997S

    You're the exact type of person what Porsche hope to attract with the Panamera.

    Re: M5 to replace my 997S

    Quote:
    luwalira said:
    You're the exact type of person what Porsche hope to attract with the Panamera.



    Could be true...

    Re: M5 to replace my 997S

    wow, is the m5 such an unrelieable car? We've recently purchased a 06 model and going to pick it up next week, I certainly don't hope to have troubles with this car!

    I think it's an amazing and very good looking car, performance & space

    Re: M5 to replace my 997S

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:

    P.S.: If you still prefer a 5 series I would also take a very close look at Alpina's B5. I would always prefer the B5 to the M5.



    Even the regular BMW 550i is pretty quick, 0-62 mph in 5.2 sec is about as quick as the S8. And it has head-up display, radar cruise control... even though it's not "special" like the M5.

    Re: M5 to replace my 997S

    Wow - appreciate everyones feedback. Didnt expect so much input.

    Dont want to go too far down the old man route and get an S class, S8 or 7 series just yet

    Be great if the RS6 was available now, and Im sure it will be a great car but I really want to move on the purchase now. Same goes for the Panamera.

    Quattroporte is very very nice, more money though and servicing and support not so easy here in NC. Be even more worried about reliability, versus say the M5 which I appreciate has had bugs and kinks given its high tech systems. Btw, if anyone has seen the hack for the M5 nav system where you can insert pretty much whatever you want on the maps as bitmaps using long/lat coordinates; very cool.

    On the MB E63AMG, thought it wasnt as good dynamically as the M5, and looked pretty pricey as it depreciates even faster than the BMW. Have been quoted a 73% residual on a 24 month lease for the M5 btw, dont do a great number of miles so 10k or 12k / year is fine. Makes the M5 very nice on outlay versus the competition.

    Couple of people have recommended looking at the 550i; have a friend who has one and following up to get his impressions. Like the idea though of having a few horses under the pedal on the right for those times when your in a real rush.

    So, if only the RS6 was out now or the panamera. Looks like its going to be the M5....but you all know how it goes, the endless deliberating will last a few days

    Re: M5 to replace my 997S

    Quote:
    Flashman said:

    Dont want to go too far down the old man route and get an S class, S8 or 7 series just yet




    I am 35 and have no feeling whatsoever that the S8 is an old man car. I do also feel the way you do about the 7 and S class. I really suggest you go drive it. Also, take a girl in her 20s with you, start the engine while she is standing behind the car, let it out into some turns and see if she thinks the S8 is old man-ish.

    The S8 says that you appreciate the same sportiness the M5 has but you have a more refined taste.

    I also, since I am in the city, like to hire a driver every once in a while instead of getting a car service. You cannot do that in an M5.

    Re: M5 to replace my 997S

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    MSB said:
    Quote:
    JohnJohn said:
    I guess it's a matter of taste. Personally I'd go for the MB 63 AMG, but I'd also consider the Audi S6 or S8.





    Sold the M5 after 2 years ownership, went for the S8, could not be happier. As a total package, I like the S8 so much better than the M5 although less evo. Had many breakdowns in the M5, and 2008's still do break down.



    100% agreed. The S8 (or, alternatively, W12) is much more refined than the M5.

    Also, the M5 is not that much quicker than the S8 or W12 in real life. The M5/M6 gains about 150m up to the Audi's top speed. I can easily live with those 150m while enjoying the high-end Audi interior and the excellent B&O sound system

    P.S.: If you still prefer a 5 series I would also take a very close look at Alpina's B5. I would always prefer the B5 to the M5.



    Though I think the "problem" with the Audi A8 W12 is that they've made it so refined it's plain boring. Remember driving one a couple of years ago and it didn't give me any thrills... The S8 however, it's got more character.

    The Alpina B5 - very good alternative to the M5

    Re: M5 to replace my 997S

    Lease a generic SUV for the family and don't sacrafice on your "fun" car. I would rather drive some generic, safe, cheap SUV 95% of the time, then sacrafice my fun car 5% of the time!

    It starts with a small sacrafice here, then there, practicallity...then after 10 years you've talked yourself into a Minvan. NO WAY! Stay away from the crack!

    If I had $100k, I would rather spend $30 on a family car and $70 on the sports car, then buy a $70k compromise vehicle that does niether well. Of course I wouldn't buy something that would compromise my family's safety.

    It's getting to the point, where I will lease a $300 per month generic SUV, and have a $100k track car I use 5 times a year in the garage.

    Re: M5 to replace my 997S

    Understand what you mean, and has crossed my mind more than once to go this route for the daily driver/family mule in addition my wife's SUV; and have something a little special in the garage. Thing is for me though - I look forward to that drive to work and home in the evening in the 997; puts a smile on your face when you have a tough day and reminds that life isnt so bad really
    Looking for something similar that I can enjoy most days in a similar way, even if it isnt a 997. Also quite like the idea of a Q car for a while given how much attention the porsche grabs.

    As to the mini-van - reassuring when the wife tells me that she is leaving the day we get one of those!

    Re: M5 to replace my 997S

    Quote:
    JohnJohn said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    MSB said:
    Quote:
    JohnJohn said:
    I guess it's a matter of taste. Personally I'd go for the MB 63 AMG, but I'd also consider the Audi S6 or S8.





    Sold the M5 after 2 years ownership, went for the S8, could not be happier. As a total package, I like the S8 so much better than the M5 although less evo. Had many breakdowns in the M5, and 2008's still do break down.



    100% agreed. The S8 (or, alternatively, W12) is much more refined than the M5.

    Also, the M5 is not that much quicker than the S8 or W12 in real life. The M5/M6 gains about 150m up to the Audi's top speed. I can easily live with those 150m while enjoying the high-end Audi interior and the excellent B&O sound system

    P.S.: If you still prefer a 5 series I would also take a very close look at Alpina's B5. I would always prefer the B5 to the M5.



    Though I think the "problem" with the Audi A8 W12 is that they've made it so refined it's plain boring. Remember driving one a couple of years ago and it didn't give me any thrills... The S8 however, it's got more character.

    The Alpina B5 - very good alternative to the M5



    Well, I don't tink the W12 is boring at all! You can drive cars like Ferrari, Lamborghini, Ruf just before doing a 400km trip in the W12 and you will just love the car. The W12 is a true technological achievement

    However, make sure to test the short wheel base of the W12. The SWB has a sporty suspension setup, a more direct steering and a shorter gearing (slightly better acceleration). Believe me, it is one of the best cars I have ever owned/driven

    P.S.: The S8 feels 99% as the W12 SWB. The only major difference (apart from styling) is the engine sound. The W12 is very, very smooth. The S8 sounds like a big block

    Re: M5 to replace my 997S

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    JohnJohn said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    MSB said:
    Quote:
    JohnJohn said:
    I guess it's a matter of taste. Personally I'd go for the MB 63 AMG, but I'd also consider the Audi S6 or S8.





    Sold the M5 after 2 years ownership, went for the S8, could not be happier. As a total package, I like the S8 so much better than the M5 although less evo. Had many breakdowns in the M5, and 2008's still do break down.



    100% agreed. The S8 (or, alternatively, W12) is much more refined than the M5.

    Also, the M5 is not that much quicker than the S8 or W12 in real life. The M5/M6 gains about 150m up to the Audi's top speed. I can easily live with those 150m while enjoying the high-end Audi interior and the excellent B&O sound system

    P.S.: If you still prefer a 5 series I would also take a very close look at Alpina's B5. I would always prefer the B5 to the M5.



    Though I think the "problem" with the Audi A8 W12 is that they've made it so refined it's plain boring. Remember driving one a couple of years ago and it didn't give me any thrills... The S8 however, it's got more character.

    The Alpina B5 - very good alternative to the M5



    Well, I don't tink the W12 is boring at all! You can drive cars like Ferrari, Lamborghini, Ruf just before doing a 400km trip in the W12 and you will just love the car. The W12 is a true technological achievement

    However, make sure to test the short wheel base of the W12. The SWB has a sporty suspension setup, a more direct steering and a shorter gearing (slightly better acceleration). Believe me, it is one of the best cars I have ever owned/driven

    P.S.: The S8 feels 99% as the W12 SWB. The only major difference (apart from styling) is the engine sound. The W12 is very, very smooth. The S8 sounds like a big block



    Believe no A8 W12 SWB in US mkt....

    Recently found that $0 down, 2 yr lease terms of fully-loaded S8/A8 W12 are not materially different from those of '08 S65....all these cars have poor resale value but MB is subsidizing cheap leases to sell units....in US, prob 90% of 65s (and most $150K+ cars in major US mkts) are $0 down, 2-3 yr-leased, often w/mfr subsidization of leases making relative MSRP misleading.....

    Re: M5 to replace my 997S

    Quote:
    WBH said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    JohnJohn said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    MSB said:
    Quote:
    JohnJohn said:
    I guess it's a matter of taste. Personally I'd go for the MB 63 AMG, but I'd also consider the Audi S6 or S8.





    Sold the M5 after 2 years ownership, went for the S8, could not be happier. As a total package, I like the S8 so much better than the M5 although less evo. Had many breakdowns in the M5, and 2008's still do break down.



    100% agreed. The S8 (or, alternatively, W12) is much more refined than the M5.

    Also, the M5 is not that much quicker than the S8 or W12 in real life. The M5/M6 gains about 150m up to the Audi's top speed. I can easily live with those 150m while enjoying the high-end Audi interior and the excellent B&O sound system

    P.S.: If you still prefer a 5 series I would also take a very close look at Alpina's B5. I would always prefer the B5 to the M5.



    Though I think the "problem" with the Audi A8 W12 is that they've made it so refined it's plain boring. Remember driving one a couple of years ago and it didn't give me any thrills... The S8 however, it's got more character.

    The Alpina B5 - very good alternative to the M5



    Well, I don't tink the W12 is boring at all! You can drive cars like Ferrari, Lamborghini, Ruf just before doing a 400km trip in the W12 and you will just love the car. The W12 is a true technological achievement

    However, make sure to test the short wheel base of the W12. The SWB has a sporty suspension setup, a more direct steering and a shorter gearing (slightly better acceleration). Believe me, it is one of the best cars I have ever owned/driven

    P.S.: The S8 feels 99% as the W12 SWB. The only major difference (apart from styling) is the engine sound. The W12 is very, very smooth. The S8 sounds like a big block



    Believe no A8 W12 SWB in US mkt....

    Recently found that $0 down, 2 yr lease terms of fully-loaded S8/A8 W12 are not materially different from those of '08 S65....all these cars have poor resale value but MB is subsidizing cheap leases to sell units....in US, prob 90% of 65s (and most $150K+ cars in major US mkts) are $0 down, 2-3 yr-leased, often w/mfr subsidization of leases making relative MSRP misleading.....



    This sounds like a very attractive offer for the S65 (which is about 40% more expensive than the S8/W12 in Germany). Only downside (which is quite material for German users) is the lack of AWD. If MB offered the S65/CL65 with AWD I had a new dream car

    P.S.: Did you know that a S65 is about US$ 350.000 in Germany... Not what I would call a bargain

    Re: M5 to replace my 997S

    Quote:
    DougNY said:
    Quote:
    Flashman said:

    Dont want to go too far down the old man route and get an S class, S8 or 7 series just yet




    I am 35 and have no feeling whatsoever that the S8 is an old man car. I do also feel the way you do about the 7 and S class. I really suggest you go drive it. Also, take a girl in her 20s with you, start the engine while she is standing behind the car, let it out into some turns and see if she thinks the S8 is old man-ish.

    The S8 says that you appreciate the same sportiness the M5 has but you have a more refined taste.

    I also, since I am in the city, like to hire a driver every once in a while instead of getting a car service. You cannot do that in an M5.





    Don't worry re: the "ole guy" stuff....precedents have been broken many times before ....know several colleagues who, when in 20s would get new CL/SL55 every yr for use in intra-Manhattan and SiliconValley commuting .....would draw endless teasing from our codgerly 30-something bosses who were desperately scared of soon appearing like elderly 40-somethings....

    Now that the formerly "young turk" cohort is in 30s, still doing new CL/SLs every yr, along w/new F's for wkends....and the first codgerly father of cohort recently broke down and got an S65 to haul his kid around....

    Conventional wisdom and image issues will often yield ugly, but predictable, outcomes....like riding the inhuman subway/trains in NYC region (home of world's wealthiest, sweaty train-riders ); driving some German SUV in SF/Greenwich/LA; or perhaps a US-brand SUV in ex-CA/NYC locales.....

    Re: M5 to replace my 997S

    MKSGR, agree MB is heavily subsidizing 65 leases....only way to move these fast-depreciating $200K cars (worth perhaps $110K after one yr of use) and these cheap leases seem to be working well....lots of new S65s around SF/LA these days....

    As much as I envy the German AB and smooth pavement , my condolences re: the German winter ....did my time in NYC and never understood how a car nut could survive 5 mos of yr incompatible w/latest/greatest perf cars....latest-tech perf tires and high tq are truly ideally exploited in SF/LA climate/topography where one can enjoy these great cars 365 d/yr w/summer perf tires....

    Re: M5 to replace my 997S

    Quote:
    WBH said:
    As much as I envy the German AB and smooth pavement , my condolences re: the German winter ....did my time in NYC and never understood how a car nut could survive 5 mos of yr incompatible w/latest/greatest perf cars....latest-tech perf tires and high tq are truly ideally exploited in SF/LA climate/topography where one can enjoy these great cars 365 d/yr w/summer perf tires....



    Sigh...

     
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