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    German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    Well, of course it is a similar "review" as found in other car magazines around the world, including the same pictures with that yellow 997 Turbo. I just hate it when they say they "testdrove" the car, this is just not true.

    But anyway, here are some points from the article in AUTO BILD:

    480 HP (Germany) seems to be official now, I don't expect any substantial change anymore.
    The engine is definetely based on the "old" 3.6 l engine without direct fuel injection but with the new VTG turbo chargers.
    AUTO BILD claims a 0-100 kph time of 3.9 seconds for the manual and 3.8 seconds for the Tiptronic S, so the Tip really seems to be faster by 0.1 seconds. The interesting thing is: any driver can achieve 3.8 seconds with the Tip but it won't be easy to achieve each time 3.9 seconds with the manual. For red light races, the Tiptronic is definetely the better choice.
    AUTO BILD also confirms the chrono sport package with the overboost function of 10 seconds to raise torque from 620 Nm to 680 Nm (~ 10%).
    They also claim that the steering feels more direct/connected in the 997 Turbo compared to the 997, something which is almost hard to believe but possible.
    They didn't like the sound of the engine/exhaust too much, so the rumor of an optional Porsche Sport Exhaust for the Turbo may be true.
    AUTO BILD also claims that the car they "testdrove" (I suppose they were driving as co-pilots) was driving on normal winter tires without spikes and that handling performance was spectacular, even if the car sometimes had traction problems at full power (pretty normal for a 480 HP car on snow and ice).
    More to come as soon as I have the magazine in my hands again, I just arrived home from Austria and I have to unpack the luggage.

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    Quote:
    RC said:
    AUTO BILD claims a 0-100 kph time of 3.9 seconds for the manual and 3.8 seconds for the Tiptronic S, so the Tip really seems to be faster by 0.1 seconds. The interesting thing is: any driver can achieve 3.8 seconds with the Tip but it won't be easy to achieve each time 3.9 seconds with the manual. For red light races, the Tiptronic is definetely the better choice.



    so RC... does this mean your going to change your order to a black TIP instead of 6speed...

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    Quote:
    RC said:
    AUTO BILD claims a 0-100 kph time of 3.9 seconds for the manual and 3.8 seconds for the Tiptronic S, so the Tip really seems to be faster by 0.1 seconds. The interesting thing is: any driver can achieve 3.8 seconds with the Tip but it won't be easy to achieve each time 3.9 seconds with the manual. For red light races, the Tiptronic is definetely the better choice.



    So if this is true (and they are at least the second magazine to state those numbers), what was this 0-100-kph-in-3.7-sec-fuss all about?

    Please don't get me wrong: for me it is totally irrelevant, if a car does the 100 kph in 4.2, 4.0 or 3.8 sec, as this number is of absolutely no interest in real life and there a far more important measurements to describe the abilities of a sportscar.

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    Hmm! 997turbo manual will be faster then tip around any track in the world if you order it with rear axle differential lock option(BTW, as far as I know this option is for manual version only ). And manual will be faster then tip in higher speeds( say 0-200km/h)... There is now a two different cars in new 997turbo: 1. Tip-for ultimate straight line performance and comfort but, without race track ambitions...
    2. Manual-for ultimate driver control on all roads(race tracks including)! Just add PCCBs to manual...

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    The option of the dual clutch system will give the best performance,it's a shame it's not coming with the car from the get go.
    Tiptronic I'm sure is just a fill-in for now that will be phased out when new gearbox arrives.
    Any news on when this gearbox is being released, still 18 months?

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    For me, the fun of a 6speed worth that 0.1 sec. Who cares if the tip is 0.1sec faster than the manual. You won't even feel it. On the other hand, with a tip, you'll miss all the fun.

    I still don't understand most of you guys with all that performance non sense. People are more interested to have the best numbers on paper than to have a better time behind the wheel. Ask yourself what you want? More fun or better figures on paper to show your friends how slower their car is ???

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    Quote:
    amazon said:
    For me, the fun of a 6speed worth that 0.1 sec. Who cares if the tip is 0.1sec faster than the manual. You won't even feel it. On the other hand, with a tip, you'll miss all the fun.

    I still don't understand most of you guys with all that performance non sense. People are more interested to have the best numbers on paper than to have a better time behind the wheel. Ask yourself what you want? More fun or better figures on paper to show your friends how slower their car is ???



    Totally agree!

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    who cares? manual 4 me..!

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    Quote:
    RC said:
    They didn't like the sound of the engine/exhaust too much, so the rumor of an optional Porsche Sport Exhaust for the Turbo may be true.



    That's interesting. I wonder if that means we'll see different exhaust tips as a result?

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    does anybody know the relationship between manual/tiptronic cars of all 996TT?

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Please don't get me wrong: for me it is totally irrelevant, if a car does the 100 kph in 4.2, 4.0 or 3.8 sec, as this number is of absolutely no interest in real life and there a far more important measurements to describe the abilities of a sportscar.



    Respectfully disagree, Rossi. The lower the 0-60 times, the better. It's one part of the performance equation, but it's an important one, especially for those of us here in the US, growing up use to comparing these times, in addition to HP numbers, 1/4 mile times and trap times. Of course, the overall performance of the car is also very important, slalom speeds, ring times. Top speed is just for bragging rights, not really applicable to anyone outside of probably the Autobahn.

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    Quote:
    amazon said:
    For me, the fun of a 6speed worth that 0.1 sec. Who cares if the tip is 0.1sec faster than the manual. You won't even feel it. On the other hand, with a tip, you'll miss all the fun.



    Completely agree. I'll order mine with a manual.

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    EVO magazine were on the same press trip and these are the main points they made:

    480bph @6000rpm
    3596cc Twin Turbo
    457 lbft Torque @ 1950-5000rpm, up to 501 lbft with 10 sec overboost
    1590kg distributed 40:60 front:rear
    6 Speed manual is 0.1 secs quicker to 0-62mph than Tiptronic
    Ring time under 7m 50s in unfavourable weather conditions
    New PSM software that allows you to disable PSM and brake in bends without PSM re-enabling

    I'll scan the article later if I get chance

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    Something is wrong here... Isn't the 997tt engine basicly same as 996tt? Then engine size is 3600ccm, NOT 3596ccm(this is the size of base 997 engine).

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    Quote:
    Branimir said:
    Something is wrong here... Isn't the 997tt engine basicly same as 996tt? Then engine size is 3600ccm, NOT 3596ccm(this is the size of base 997 engine).



    There is nothing wrong, the 997 Turbo engine is based on the "old" 996 Turbo/964/GT1 engine design, not the M96/M97.
    This is 100% accurate, I can confirm it. Don't worry.

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    Quote:
    RC said:
    They didn't like the sound of the engine/exhaust too much, so the rumor of an optional Porsche Sport Exhaust for the Turbo may be true.



    Now you got me worried that they didn't like the sound of the engine/exhaust. That's not a good sign.

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    Quote:
    BD 997 said:
    so RC... does this mean your going to change your order to a black TIP instead of 6speed...



    I'm still waiting for the 0-160 kph, 0-200 kph and 0-300 kph performance figures. IF the Tiptronic is going to be faster, I may go for it. No kidding.
    I still can't see how this works but it can't be excluded that Tip is slightly faster than manual, even in the higher speed ranges.

    I'm somehow confused with all those 0-100 kph and 0-60 mph performance claims. The numbers vary a little bit, maybe there is some sort of confusion about Tip/Manual performance numbers and 0-60 mph or 0-62 mph (100 kph) performance figures.

    I'm also curious to hear if the overboost also increases the maximum power figure. Of course it may be possible that power increases by 10% too (like the torque) but ONLY at certain rev figures, so the maximum power output never exceeds 480 HP. This would still provide a pretty impressive performance gain in certain speed ranges.

    BTW: I forgot to mention that AUTO BILD claims that the boost pressure goes up from 1.0 to 1.2 bar with the overboost. I'm still not sure about these figures because I actually heard something around 0.8 bar boost pressure for the base car but it can't be excluded.

    And a last word regarding Tiptronic: we should wait until we see how it performs. In conjunction with the new VTG technology, the chrono sport package turbo and maybe some further tweaks of the Tip, it can't be excluded that the Tip actually works pretty well, even for the track.

    It is a SHAME that Porsche doesn't offer the PDK system from the start, in my opinion this may really hold some people back from buying the 997 Turbo. Especially since the performance gain from PDK may be pretty spectacular, considering the currently rumored performance figures for manual and Tip.

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    Quote:
    guy2 said:
    does anybody know the relationship between manual/tiptronic cars of all 996TT?

    http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=189992&an=0&page=0#189992


    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    BD 997 said:
    so RC... does this mean your going to change your order to a black TIP instead of 6speed...



    I'm still waiting for the 0-160 kph, 0-200 kph and 0-300 kph performance figures. IF the Tiptronic is going to be faster, I may go for it. No kidding.
    I still can't see how this works but it can't be excluded that Tip is slightly faster than manual, even in the higher speed ranges.

    I'm somehow confused with all those 0-100 kph and 0-60 mph performance claims. The numbers vary a little bit, maybe there is some sort of confusion about Tip/Manual performance numbers and 0-60 mph or 0-62 mph (100 kph) performance figures.

    I'm also curious to hear if the overboost also increases the maximum power figure. Of course it may be possible that power increases by 10% too (like the torque) but ONLY at certain rev figures, so the maximum power output never exceeds 480 HP. This would still provide a pretty impressive performance gain in certain speed ranges.

    BTW: I forgot to mention that AUTO BILD claims that the boost pressure goes up from 1.0 to 1.2 bar with the overboost. I'm still not sure about these figures because I actually heard something around 0.8 bar boost pressure for the base car but it can't be excluded.

    And a last word regarding Tiptronic: we should wait until we see how it performs. In conjunction with the new VTG technology, the chrono sport package turbo and maybe some further tweaks of the Tip, it can't be excluded that the Tip actually works pretty well, even for the track.

    It is a SHAME that Porsche doesn't offer the PDK system from the start, in my opinion this may really hold some people back from buying the 997 Turbo. Especially since the performance gain from PDK may be pretty spectacular, considering the currently rumored performance figures for manual and Tip.



    I am positive that the Tiptronic version will be slower at higher speeds (as all other automatic transmission versions of other cars are): AB mentions in their recent article that the Tiptronic is .1 secs faster 0-62kph as it comes with an improved traction control system. It probably is just a marketing trick to increase sales of the old fashioned Tiptronic.

    Personnaly, I consider it inacceptable that Porsche still offers that crappy trechnology. There is no excuse for the PDK delay.

    The AB article is a collection of unfavourable news. Right now I am quite disappointed about what is known about the 997TT so far.

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Please don't get me wrong: for me it is totally irrelevant, if a car does the 100 kph in 4.2, 4.0 or 3.8 sec, as this number is of absolutely no interest in real life and there a far more important measurements to describe the abilities of a sportscar.



    Respectfully disagree, Rossi. The lower the 0-60 times, the better. It's one part of the performance equation, but it's an important one, especially for those of us here in the US, growing up use to comparing these times, in addition to HP numbers, 1/4 mile times and trap times. Of course, the overall performance of the car is also very important, slalom speeds, ring times. Top speed is just for bragging rights, not really applicable to anyone outside of probably the Autobahn.



    I get your point Alan. Let me put my statement in the right context:
    Of course it's important, how fast a car gets to 100kph (and all the other numbers) and of course the quicker the better.
    What I meant was, that once you got a car that accelerates in around 4 seconds to 100kph, I really don't care if it's a low four-point-something or a high three-point-something. That was what I was trying to say.

    IMO the four seconds barrier is something like the benchmark for the top class sportscars (except Enzo, CGT, Zonda...), but if a car actually does it in 4.2, 4.0 or even 3.8 sec, I don't bloody care.

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    Quote:
    RC said:I'm also curious to hear if the overboost also increases the maximum power figure. Of course it may be possible that power increases by 10% too (like the torque) but ONLY at certain rev figures, so the maximum power output never exceeds 480 HP.


    Yes, this is exactly what I expect. If you have 10% more torque at 3,000 rpm then you also have 10% more power in that range by definition. But, I expect the overboost won't work much above 4,500rpm in order to preserve the 480hp peak power level. I'll be interested to hear what you learn. If it works to 6k revs, then peak power would be about 528hp...

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    Quote:
    sdy284 said:
    Quote:
    guy2 said:
    does anybody know the relationship between manual/tiptronic cars of all 996TT?

    http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=189992&an=0&page=0#189992






    no, i mean how many 996TT have been sold as manual and how many as tiptronic cars?

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    Quote:
    Atlantis said:
    EVO magazine were on the same press trip and these are the main points they made:

    480bph @6000rpm
    3596cc Twin Turbo
    457 lbft Torque @ 1950-5000rpm, up to 501 lbft with 10 sec overboost
    1590kg distributed 40:60 front:rear
    6 Speed manual is 0.1 secs quicker to 0-62mph than Tiptronic
    Ring time under 7m 50s in unfavourable weather conditions
    New PSM software that allows you to disable PSM and brake in bends without PSM re-enabling

    I'll scan the article later if I get chance



    please can you also scan the Corvette Z06 Group Test with the GT3 RS?

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    Quote:
    guy2 said:
    does anybody know the relationship between manual/tiptronic cars of all 996TT?



    Here is the data for the 996TurboS, Coupe and Cab, per the PCNA specs. from their brochure:

    TurboS Coupe:
    Curb weight with TipS: 3,594lb
    TipS 0-100kph/62mph: 4.5sec
    TipS 0-160kph/100mph: 9.7sec
    Top track speed TipS: 186mph
    Curb weight with manual: 3,505lb
    Manual 0-100kph/62mph: 4.1sec
    Manual 0-160kph/100mph: 9.0sec
    Top track speed manual: 190mph

    TurboS Cab:
    Curb weight with TipS: 3,748lb
    TipS 0-100kph/62mph: 4.6sec
    TipS 0-160kph/100mph: 10.0sec
    Top track speed TipS: 186mph
    Curb weight with manual: 3,660lb
    Manual 0-100kph/62mph: 4.3sec
    Manual 0-160kph/100mph: 9.2sec
    Top track speed manual: 190mph

    I won't speculate on why some rumoured Tip accel. numbers are superior to manual accel.numbers on the 997TT (I'll only say that I would be very much interested in the engineering explanations for the difference versus the 996TTS if it pans out), I'll instead simply await the numbers from Porsche's press release later this month and from independent test drivers' reviews when they get their cars-particularly the rennteamers here with early orders.

    Just noticed I'm a little "tardy" posting the info., others beat me to the punch.

    Note, I added curb weights, so the TipS tranny adds 88-89lb to the car versus manual, which with the torque converter adds to the disadvantage.

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    RC,
    I understand that you have a turbo on order, but also you say you don't know yet whether you will go for a tip or manual, because you don't know yet which one will be faster. So probably you didn't finalyze your order yet? Do you know when it will be delivredd then? I thought you would have one of the first cars to hit the street?
    -Joost-

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    no sorry, i would like to know how many people bought the 996TT with tiptronic and how many bought it with a manual transmission?

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    Quote:
    guy2 said:
    no sorry, i would like to know how many people bought the 996TT with tiptronic and how many bought it with a manual transmission?



    Yes, sorry, I noticed that after I posted.

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    RC said:I'm also curious to hear if the overboost also increases the maximum power figure. Of course it may be possible that power increases by 10% too (like the torque) but ONLY at certain rev figures, so the maximum power output never exceeds 480 HP.


    Yes, this is exactly what I expect. If you have 10% more torque at 3,000 rpm then you also have 10% more power in that range by definition. But, I expect the overboost won't work much above 4,500rpm in order to preserve the 480hp peak power level. I'll be interested to hear what you learn. If it works to 6k revs, then peak power would be about 528hp...



    Yes,

    I suspect this is one area in which the tuners can also prevail, fiddling with the overboost, as well as the ECU control of max. boost pressure settings for the VTG's. I'm still not sure what this 10 seconds figure means-I would think that if overboost could act for 10 seconds, then it would have to act for > 4,500rpm's, since mashing down on the throttle for 10 seconds surely would rev the car past 4,500rpm's-in fact, one would have to gently tap the throttle to keep it revving for 10 seconds in one gear-this makes me wonder what the significance of overboost is-is it just a torque and power-LIMITER when the Sports Chrono Turbo is set off, in which case, what's the point of that? I'll be keen to learn what the stock 997TT VTG's can handle safely, given the reported thermal stresses, requiring "space shuttle" materials to protect the exhaust system-I never thought I would say this, but it turns out that the 911 Turbo benefits from the efforts of the US space shuttle program.

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    As stated in Autocar, 680 Nm is available between 2100-4500 rpm.
    THAT means ONLY to 4500 rpm!
    It doesn't matter what gear you're in or if you floor the throttle, if the RPM is between 2100-4500 you will have 680 NM!

    The overboost is in effect only at these RPM, after that the boost pressure lowers and produce 562 NM at 6000 rpm = 480 HP!

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    Quote:
    CF said:
    As stated in Autocar, 680 Nm is available between 2100-4500 rpm.
    THAT means ONLY to 4500 rpm!
    It doesn't matter what gear you're in or if you floor the throttle, if the RPM is between 2100-4500 you will have 680 NM!

    The overboost is in effect only at these RPM, after that the boost pressure lowers and produce 562 NM at 6000 rpm = 480 HP!



    Makes sense. Then does the 10-second limit mean that if one holds the throttle and gear to keep the engine between 2,100 and 4,500rpm, that boost will drop from overboost (no higher than 1.2BAR) to baseline?

     
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