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    997 BLOWN ENGINE AFTER 2 MONTHS AND 4000 MILES

    Today, on route to office, I had my first major problem with my 997. Driving at 30mph, I all of a sudden noticed a loud rattleing sound coming from the engine. At first I thought the muffler came loose and that I was dragging it on the ground. I immediately pulled over and looked around the car but saw nothing. I started the engine again and the car was making all kind of loud funky sounds as if a piece of metal was loose in the engine and was being bounced around. I called porsche roadside and had the car flatbed to the porsche dealership. At that point , I walked into the sevice bay and told the head mechanic that there was a serious problem with my car. As he pulled the car into the bay, oil was pouring out all over the place. To make a long story short, they found a hole in the engine crankcase the size of a quarter . They think one of the cylinder rods broke loose and put a hole in the crankcase. The mecanic said the engine is unrepairable and that I would need a new engine. My response was for a 80000 dollar car that was only 2 months old, this was completely unacceptable and they can keep the car. I was told that they will contact the porsche regional and I will be contacted in 7-10 days as to determine how to handle this. As far as I am concerned , I have no intention of taking this car back, Would you with a car thats two months old that now needs a brand new engine. Meanwhile here i am paying a porsche lease on a 997 every month and I have no car. Tell me you wound't be pissed about this.

    Re: 997 BLOWN ENGINE AFTER 2 MONTHS AND 4000 MILES

    Welcome to a new Porsche era. Where production and sales come first.... Quality comes last. Sorry to hear about your problem, but its becoming more and more common with Porsche!

    Re: 997 BLOWN ENGINE AFTER 2 MONTHS AND 4000 MILES

    You have the absolute right to get a new fresh engine and perhaps some additional compensation, but that is it.
    High-performance engines may fail and Porsche's fail less than others. You bought a sports car - racing sports cars do often change engines on the track. You sound aggravated saying you need another car - why? You need a ne engine! Your car is not a piece of jewelry that cannnot be touched - it is a sports car, and parts are replaceable.

    Re: 997 BLOWN ENGINE AFTER 2 MONTHS AND 4000 MILES

    yah, I am aggravated. I didn't spend 20,000 dollars on a toyota. I spend 85000 dollars on a porsche thats two months old and had a complete engine failure. We are not talking about sensors onthe dash that want turn off or rattles in the car. Its one thing if the car was old, but this is a brand new vehical . oh and by the way, how do you know if the car is going to drive right with an engine that has to be placed at a porsche dealership vs a car built at the factory. I paid for a new car, not one that has to have a new engine placed at the dealership two months later. I am not a little aggravated, I am very upset...............btw 4000 miles in two months , doesn't seem like I treat it like a fine piece of jewelry.......

    Re: 997 BLOWN ENGINE AFTER 2 MONTHS AND 4000 MILES

    Quote:
    mrcohanian said:
    ... oh and by the way, how do you know if the car is going to drive right with an engine that has to be placed at a porsche dealership vs a car built at the factory. ....



    The 911 engine engine comes out and in very easily. Engines are replaced on these cars every day. If you feel this way, I'm sorry buy a Lexus, not a sports car.

    Re: 997 BLOWN ENGINE AFTER 2 MONTHS AND 4000 MILES

    Thats awefull, but as mentioned eearlier; have it repaired, and make sure you have a loaner in the meantime.
    -Joost-

    Re: 997 BLOWN ENGINE AFTER 2 MONTHS AND 4000 MILES

    Quote:
    I am not a little aggravated, I am very upset...............



    What's the big deal man? Simply have your dealer replace the engine and go on. IMHO, if you get a loaner for that time (shouldn't be more then a week or 10 days max), there is nothing for you to be 'very upset'.

    I had the engine replaced on my C4Cab as well. Porsche was SUPER generous to do that basically free of charge, even though my warranty had expired two years prior. The new engine runs at least as good as the old one ever did.

    Be 'a little aggravated' but not more.

    Gregor

    Re: 997 BLOWN ENGINE AFTER 2 MONTHS AND 4000 MILES

    Mrcohanian, I sympathise with you greatly - if I had spent that much money I would want a new car not a new engine... Sure there's nothing wrong with a new engine, but it's the principle that counts - spending so much hard-earned to buy into a supposedly reliable brand and then having it break on you so soon!

    If you bought a really expensive diamond ring from Cartier and the stone fell out of the ring, would you be happy with the store just repairing it and handing it back to you, or would you demand and expect a completely new ring? I know what I would do...

    I actually like the 997 and will be very disappointed if it turns out they haven't resolved the RMS issues (and even more so if they end up putting this wet sump block into the GT3/Turbo!) :-(

    I hope your case gets resolved in a satisfactory way for you...

    Re: 997 BLOWN ENGINE AFTER 2 MONTHS AND 4000 MILES

    Mrcohanian-sorry to hear about your engine failure I couldnt help notice a post on Rennlist about" running in engines"and you said"The breakin period on the 911 is pure nonsense.It has been a redline shift at every chance i get"
    I am not saying that you are to blame for this engine failure ,but it must make you wonder whether its best to run in more gently

    Re: 997 BLOWN ENGINE AFTER 2 MONTHS AND 4000 MILES

    If this kind of thing continues to happen a lot of Porsche owners will be buying a Lexus instead.
    We are many years on from the days when "sports car" owners had to put up with unreliability as par for the course.

    Re: 997 BLOWN ENGINE AFTER 2 MONTHS AND 4000 MILES

    I would be pretty angry and upset if I were in your shoes. Sure, your dealer can replace the engine and hopefully, your car will run like new again but won't a replaced engine have a detrimental effect on your car's resale value when you eventually sell it? I also think any used car buyer would at least pause for thought and may even hesitate before buying your car.

    But I guess the main issue could be just the psychological aspect...just knowing that the car had gone through this major problem. If you can get over that psychologically, then you'll continue to enjoy your car as before. But, if your confidence in this car is shaken, you may always fear what else could happen further down the line?

    Hope it all works out okay for you.

    Re: 997 BLOWN ENGINE AFTER 2 MONTHS AND 4000 MILES

    In addition I guess you'll always be wondering when your next engine will blow - because it will only be a matter of time I guess, unless Porsche have a fix for the problem and perform a recall.

    Re: 997 BLOWN ENGINE AFTER 2 MONTHS AND 4000 MILES

    Quote:
    KenH said:
    If this kind of thing continues to happen a lot of Porsche owners will be buying a Lexus instead.


    And then we'll see who bought a porsche to wear it, like a Cartier jewel, and who bought it to drive it

    Re: 997 BLOWN ENGINE AFTER 2 MONTHS AND 4000 MILES

    I sympathise with your view but you have to be pragmatic. Anything mechanical has the potential to break. I had an engine failure in my E60 BMW 530d. The throttle assembly collapsed and was sucked into the engine causing a total failure. My car was off the road for two weeks and a new engine was fitted by the dealer. Like you, I was unhappy that the engine had failed but the new engine is fine and I've had no issues whatsoever. The technicians are trained to do engine swaps so it's no big deal.

    You are fortunate in that your car is leased so you haven't actually had to shell out $85k of your own cash and the residual risk isn't yours either. If you are leasing I can't see the big issue. It would be far worse if you had bought the car outright.

    I would insist that either you are given a loaner whilst yours is off the road or a lease payment holiday for the duration of the repair to compensate for loss of use.

    Re: 997 BLOWN ENGINE AFTER 2 MONTHS AND 4000 MILES

    what does a lease matter? He is still shelling out hard earned money to rent a car.........

    Re: 997 BLOWN ENGINE AFTER 2 MONTHS AND 4000 MILES

    KenH said:
    If this kind of thing continues to happen a lot of Porsche owners will be buying a Lexus instead.
    ----------------------------------------------------

    And then we'll see who bought a porsche to wear it, like a Cartier jewel, and who bought it to drive it


    The logical conclusion of this statement is that the "wearers" will be driving around in their Lexuses and the "drivers" will be driving their rental cars whilst waiting for replacement engines.
    I am afraid that this is becoming all too reminiscent of the British motorcycle industry.

    Is it true that Dale Earnhardt Jr. drives a Porsche?

    And why does Dale Jr. use Enterprise, because he own's a Porsche.

    That's the rumor that I heard.

    jb

    Re: 997 BLOWN ENGINE AFTER 2 MONTHS AND 4000 MILES

    Quote:
    rss996 said:
    what does a lease matter? He is still shelling out hard earned money to rent a car.........



    rss996,

    I wasn't trying to imply that he isn't paying out good money for his car. All I was trying to say was in a situation like this, with a lease you are effectively long term "renting" the car so any problems it has during its life such as engine replacement will not affect you in the same way they would if you owned the car. At the end of the lease you simply hand it back and walk away with no worries on residual value caused by the troubled service history. The lease company has to deal with that. If he owned the car he would get double the grief - the inconvenience, hassle and loss of confidence in the car followed by the problem of selling it on and potentially having to accept a lower value due to the problems suffered.

    There is a saying that "one swallow doesn't make a summer" and I think it's important to take an engine failure like this in context. At the moment it is a one off and there could be any number of reasons for it including a manufacturing defect in a component. This does not mean there is an inherent fault in all 997 engine's. I more than anyone am sympathetic as it happened to me only four months ago with my BMW. This does not mean that all BMW's fitted with the same engine will fail in the same manner. I was also angry about the failure at the time and posted about my experience on a BMW board. With the benefit of time and hindsight I am able to look back and think what was all the fuss about. My car broke down, I was given an equivalent loaner at no cost whilst my new engine was installed, and I have had no issues since. Believe me going through this process makes you more aware of the facts rather than sitting on the sidelines reading about a problem and fearing having a similar thing happen to you.

    The engine will be replaced under warranty and that, I sincerely hope as in my case (albeit with a different manufacturer), will be the end of his problems.

    Re: 997 BLOWN ENGINE AFTER 2 MONTHS AND 4000 MILES

    Quote:
    mrcohanian said:
    Today, on route to office, I had my first major problem with my 997. Driving at 30mph, I all of a sudden noticed a loud rattleing sound coming from the engine. At first I thought the muffler came loose and that I was dragging it on the ground. I immediately pulled over and looked around the car but saw nothing. I started the engine again and the car was making all kind of loud funky sounds as if a piece of metal was loose in the engine and was being bounced around. I called porsche roadside and had the car flatbed to the porsche dealership. At that point , I walked into the sevice bay and told the head mechanic that there was a serious problem with my car. As he pulled the car into the bay, oil was pouring out all over the place. To make a long story short, they found a hole in the engine crankcase the size of a quarter . They think one of the cylinder rods broke loose and put a hole in the crankcase. The mecanic said the engine is unrepairable and that I would need a new engine. My response was for a 80000 dollar car that was only 2 months old, this was completely unacceptable and they can keep the car. I was told that they will contact the porsche regional and I will be contacted in 7-10 days as to determine how to handle this. As far as I am concerned , I have no intention of taking this car back, Would you with a car thats two months old that now needs a brand new engine. Meanwhile here i am paying a porsche lease on a 997 every month and I have no car. Tell me you wound't be pissed about this.



    This really is tragic but the best you can hope for is a new engine. I agree with others that these things happen and to demand a new car in my opinion is unreasonable.

    I have my issues with Porsche but in a consumer setting Porsche is obligated to replace the engine and no more. My concern would be to what extent they try to pass the failure of the engine on your driving i.e. did you follow break in instructions et cetera?

    Re: 997 BLOWN ENGINE AFTER 2 MONTHS AND 4000 MILES

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    I also think any used car buyer would at least pause for thought and may even hesitate before buying your car.

    But I guess the main issue could be just the psychological aspect...just knowing that the car had gone through this major problem. If you can get over that psychologically, then you'll continue to enjoy your car as before. But, if your confidence in this car is shaken, you may always fear what else could happen further down the line?



    Right on the money!
    I once bought a used car that I thought was fine...until I found out had been almost totaled by the previous owner. (The dealer "forgot" to tell me).
    Since that day I had NO confidence in the car. Even tho the car worked fine, I was constantly paranoid and noticed every single strange sound, quirk and anomaly - subscribing it to the fact that the car had been damaged.

    I wouldn't accept getting "only" an engine replacement. Not if I could avoid it.
    A lot af the 85K$ you paid for your 997 was paid for the Porsche brand,-getting the feeeling, enjoyment and most of all security and guarantee that comes with owning a premium car brand as opposed to paying a lot less for a e.g. Kia.

    Even if they replace the engine (which IMO is probably all they will do) you will end up with a 85k$ car in which you have a lot less confidence, and feel a lot less comfortable in psychologically.

    If I were you, I'd give'em hell to make sure they either REALLY convince you that the car is technically 100% ok after the engine swap or give you a new car.
    Sadly I cannot imagine that they are obligated to give you a new vehicle, so you will probably end up with a replacement engine and a much harder sale when the day comes you wanna sell it.

    Re: 997 BLOWN ENGINE AFTER 2 MONTHS AND 4000 MILES

    This is pretty disturbing in my opinion....

    I have owned several late '80s and early '90s Porsches......and to have an engine fail this soon was unheard of.....sports car nature or not. My first Porsche, an '87 928 S4 with 111k miles on it was still able to blast up to 165 MPH and was still going strong with 200k miles on it.....never opened it up and I worked the hell out of it.
    I have heard the same from 911 and 944 owners of the same vintages.

    Now I know we are talking about different animals here, but if you pay $85K for one of these things it better hold together at least 100K....sports car nature or not. That's why you pay the money to begin with. Porsche is supposed to be one of the "premier" engine builders.....I'm beginning to think they are not, and just looking at $$$ signs now. Sad.

    Re: 997 BLOWN ENGINE AFTER 2 MONTHS AND 4000 MILES

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    Sure, your dealer can replace the engine and hopefully, your car will run like new again but won't a replaced engine have a detrimental effect on your car's resale value when you eventually sell it? I also think any used car buyer would at least pause for thought and may even hesitate before buying your car.



    It is my understanding that when an engine is replaced by Porsche under warranty all information about car will be changed to reflect the new engine. In other words, 20 years from now when a collector wants to buy that car and wants to make sure that it is all original, the new engine will show up on reports as the original engine. So assuming that the new engine is installed correctly (which is a relatively easy job) the car should not suffer from performance or future valuation problems.

    Having said that, I too would be angry about having to replace the engine on such a new car. At the very least they should give the owner very nice rental (which I think should be covered by your warranty) and perhaps some other consideration.

    Phil

    Re: 997 BLOWN ENGINE AFTER 2 MONTHS AND 4000 MILES

    Dude, relax, that's why you leased a car. Let the warranty get you a new motor and go on. It's not like you laid out 85k, you're protected don't worry about it. It's still the best car on the road IMO.

    Re: 997 BLOWN ENGINE AFTER 2 MONTHS AND 4000 MILES

    NicK: My hat is off to you!


    Re: 997 BLOWN ENGINE AFTER 2 MONTHS AND 4000 MILES

    Quote:
    robbo said:
    Mrcohanian-sorry to hear about your engine failure I couldnt help notice a post on Rennlist about" running in engines"and you said"The breakin period on the 911 is pure nonsense.It has been a redline shift at every chance i get"
    I am not saying that you are to blame for this engine failure ,but it must make you wonder whether its best to run in more gently



    It would be interesting to see the ECU record on this car, and if it is a stickshift, to see if there are any type 2 over-revs.

    Re: 997 BLOWN ENGINE AFTER 2 MONTHS AND 4000 MILES

    <<what does a lease matter? He is still shelling out hard earned money to rent a car>>

    pride of ownership
    someone with a lease is more apt to abuse the car because they are renting, not owning the car. from day one they know it's going back.
    I'd never...i repeat, never buy an off lease car.

    Re: 997 BLOWN ENGINE AFTER 2 MONTHS AND 4000 MILES

    Quote:
    peecarfan said:
    <<what does a lease matter? He is still shelling out hard earned money to rent a car>>

    pride of ownership
    someone with a lease is more apt to abuse the car because they are renting, not owning the car. from day one they know it's going back.
    I'd never...i repeat, never buy an off lease car.



    Strange argument IMO.
    My last car was a lease before I bought it from the leasing/financing company.
    When the car is "going back" as you put it, you neither gain nor lose on the car, UNLESS you mistreated the car and it's not in prime condition, in which case the person leasing the car will have to shell out the green to pay for the further decrease in value. Usually the leasing co will make sure they get their a55 covered, so the car better be in good condition.
    IMO thats a good reason to keep the car in prime condition.
    Its very similar to owning a car.
    At least that's how it works where I live.

    A rentel car...now THAT's something totally different.
    Rent it, trash it, return it....but then again, not many people rent a Porsche.

    Re: 997 BLOWN ENGINE AFTER 2 MONTHS AND 4000 MILES

    I think the issue with ex lease cars is that some drivers treat the mechanicals fairly harshly as it isn't their car. It's is impossible for a lease company to check this upon return of the car unless it is showing obvious signs of misuse. They can see evidence of abuse to the bodywork and interior but how do you spot a worn engine or prove that it was down to abuse without a costly engine strip down report?

    Most ex lease cars in the UK are sold on through auctions or small independent dealers. I wouldn't touch one either as most have not been looked after well.

    I assume that things are probably different in the US where personal leasing is common place but you must still get abused cars there too.

    Re: 997 BLOWN ENGINE AFTER 2 MONTHS AND 4000 MILES

    Lots of guys lease in the US for tax reasons. Most guys who lease take good care of their cars, not an issue.

    Re: 997 BLOWN ENGINE AFTER 2 MONTHS AND 4000 MILES

    First off all, lets be clear of one thing. This car was never tracked, there was never a missed downshift , in fact, I never had the rev limiter cut me out, oil levels were always within normal limits . Clearly this was manufacturing defect when the engine was built. As for the fact that the car is leased, who cares. What happens if I want to trade this car in for a new model a year from now. Do you really think I would get fair value for the car. Lets put it this way, If i were in the market for a used porsche and found a car that looked good but had the engine replaced, who are you kidding, I would walk away from the car. I should not have to be in this position about devaluation issues because of a production defect from porsche. btw, the serial number of the replacement engine will never match the original chassis serial number, so yes there is devaluation issue.

     
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