Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Close to final decision - Help needed!!! - Page1

Mar 9, 2006 10:04:43 AM

AS4s: Pilot; Loc: New York , United States; Posts: 328, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 10, 2004

Close to final decision - Help needed!!!

After many months trying to decide which Pcar will replace my current 986S, I have finally made up my mind on the idea to go ahead and replace it as well as on which specs I would put on the car but....need help on deciding C2S cab or C4S cab.

First, let me tell you what I would put in either car:

Basalt black
Black Leather interior
Black Top
X 51
PCCB
Sport Chrono
Sport Shifter - Any comments on this one?
Carrera Classic 19" or XRR - Have not decided yet on this one, any comments?
Wheel center set
TPM
Dimming interior/exterior mirrors
Parkassist
HomeLink
Adaptive Sport Seats
Heated seats
Sport Steering Wheel
Porsche crest in seats
Rear center console in leather
Sun visors in leather
Extended PCM
Telephone Module
BOSE
Factory pick up

Other options considered - Please any comments?
Back of seats in exterior color
PCM in black or aluminum

Now the real question is C2S or C4S. I have driven both before and will test both again next week. I spent 4 days with a C4S in Camp4 and loved the car but again it was not under normal weather conditions. I will test C2S and C4S again next week but none of them will have X51. What I am looking for is a fun car but at the same time I am not a professional driver, will track the car a couple of times per year at most, and this will be my first 911. I have had 2 Boxsters S previously.

Doubts that come to my mind:

The Boxster S is a blast to drive and very forgiving, feels light and fast. Will the C4S feel heavy and boring? Will the C2S feel hard to drive? How will the X51 option impact performance on the C4S? Will it be more fun then but more forgiving than the C2S?

Another less fundamental question is whether there will be a facelift next year or much later on.

By reading many, many posts on the topic C4S vs. C2S I have always felt biased towards the C4S but would love a few comments to make final decision. I can get a slot for May/June production and enjoy my cab all summer!

Thanks everyone!

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Mar 9, 2006 11:32:23 AM

03-turbo911: Pilot; Loc: Bahrain; Posts: 337, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 17, 2004; Reply to: AS4s

Re: Close to final decision - Help needed!!!

Go with your heart. If you're in love with the C4S than just go get that. Both are beautiful cars and I don't think you'll make a mistake going for either.

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Mar 9, 2006 1:36:31 PM

crg: Junior; Loc: sub. chicago; Posts: 75, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 24, 2005; Reply to: AS4s

Re: Close to final decision - Help needed!!!

To finish the leather interior you should add storage bin in leather .What about larger steering wheel(comes with nicer leather). Otherwise ,it looks as you have checked every available option.You may have record for most expensive C4s.Maybe they should give you a prize. Good luck. crg

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Mar 9, 2006 1:45:16 PM

Gaz: Co-Pilot; Loc: London, England; Posts: 246, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 4, 2004; Reply to: AS4s

Re: Close to final decision - Help needed!!!

I saw a basalt black cabrio in Tooley Street last night and it looked awesome. The black hood and body work well together. Almost made me want to change my arctic silver coupe!

I went from 986S to 997S and I don't find the 997 hard to drive in comparison to the Boxster. It feels different (of course) and is loads more fun, but it isn't the handful you might expect. If you're contemplating the AWD version just because you're worried about the 911 handling characteristics vs. the Boxster's, then don't. On UK roads with our weather I'm not convinced the 4S is justified. I was on the A8 south of Munich on Monday evening (heading back from Kitzbuhel), and that's the kind of blizzard the 4S would be ideal for!! I had to wait three hours at FJ Strauss from them to clear the runways!

Gaz

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Mar 9, 2006 1:50:56 PM

AS4s: Pilot; Loc: New York , United States; Posts: 328, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 10, 2004; Reply to: crg

Re: Close to final decision - Help needed!!!

Quote:
crg said:
To finish the leather interior you should add storage bin in leather .What about larger steering wheel(comes with nicer leather). Otherwise ,it looks as you have checked every available option.You may have record for most expensive C4s.Maybe they should give you a prize. Good luck. crg

storage bin in leather! good idea!! I will ask exclusive about that...

just kidding.

Seriously i did not select that many, just the rear center console and the sun visors. Even my 986S have all that so I fugure a 997 deserves more

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Mar 9, 2006 2:51:22 PM

jpcourt: Co-Pilot; Loc: Connecticut , United States; Posts: 267, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2006; Reply to: AS4s

Re: Close to final decision - Help needed!!!

why not just order a 997 Turbo?

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Mar 9, 2006 3:05:13 PM

AS4s: Pilot; Loc: New York , United States; Posts: 328, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 10, 2004; Reply to: jpcourt

Re: Close to final decision - Help needed!!!

Quote:
jpcourt said:
why not just order a 997 Turbo?

Have thought about that but i see the following negatives:

1 - I like the looks of the C2S and C4S much better.
2 - I want a Cab. and Turbo cab is not out yet
3 - I don't like Tiptronic and since PDK will be available in the future, I rather get a Turbo S in 3 years.
4 - Yes, the price is at the turbo level, but fully loaded, I would not want a barebones Turbo so price of Turbo would also be higher with extras that I want.

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Mar 9, 2006 3:28:18 PM

intheloop: Junior; Loc: Chicago; Posts: 124, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 29, 2006; Reply to: AS4s

Re: Close to final decision - Help needed!!!

Beautiful car. IMO, the contrast of a black cab with a few aluminum look bits inside looks terrific. Seatbacks in aluminum look rather than exterior color, and PCM in aluminum look are great! And I have to agree with crg, get the model logo embossed in the storage bin lid so that you get the leather flowing back from the rear center console.

I'm C2 guy. Again, IMO, you go with the C4 if you want the wide body look, but I'm not sold on the necessity of AWD in these cars. That said, this is the best AWD car Porsche has built thus far.

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Mar 9, 2006 4:46:09 PM

Le Chef: Veteran; Loc: Chicago , United States; Posts: 1059, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 3, 2003; Reply to: intheloop

Re: Close to final decision - Help needed!!!

If you've got the dosh by almeans include X51 and PCCB's.

Personally it wouldn't fit my logic. If I was going to track the car regularly I would have both X51, PCCB's and short shifter, with basic sports seats. But I would make it a coupe not a cab as a cab will not be as good a track car.

So if I'm sold on the Cab and I'm only going to track it a couple of times a year I would nix the X51 (where in camera ridden Blighty can you use the performance?), nix the PCCB's (standard brakes are more than good enough for the track, so for road use they are well above and beyond your needs), nix the awd (if we don't need it in Chicago where the weather is much worse than almost anywhere in Britain, why would you need it in London?)

You've just saved yourself a bundle on the car - now go and take a road trip to Spa and the vinyards in Alsace and Burgundy and enjoy the car more.

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Mar 9, 2006 4:58:30 PM

AS4s: Pilot; Loc: New York , United States; Posts: 328, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 10, 2004; Reply to: intheloop

Re: Close to final decision - Help needed!!!

Quote:
intheloop said:
And I have to agree with crg, get the model logo embossed in the storage bin lid so that you get the leather flowing back from the rear center console.

I see,

I thought he was kidding but now I understand what you mean, so yes, that one has been added. I also agree with you on the back of the seats. Thanks

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Mar 9, 2006 5:04:23 PM

AS4s: Pilot; Loc: New York , United States; Posts: 328, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 10, 2004; Reply to: Gaz

Re: Close to final decision - Help needed!!!

Quote:
Gaz said:
I went from 986S to 997S and I don't find the 997 hard to drive in comparison to the Boxster. It feels different (of course) and is loads more fun, but it isn't the handful you might expect. If you're contemplating the AWD version just because you're worried about the 911 handling characteristics vs. the Boxster's, then don't. On UK roads with our weather I'm not convinced the 4S is justified. I was on the A8 south of Munich on Monday evening (heading back from Kitzbuhel), and that's the kind of blizzard the 4S would be ideal for!! I had to wait three hours at FJ Strauss from them to clear the runways!
Gaz

Thanks Gaz, happy to hear about your 986 to 997 switch experience. I do drive outside of London. Sort of live in between London and Madrid and do nice trips across Europe from time to time. I thought about the C4S as many people mentioned it was more planted than the C2S. Do you or anyone can comment on their experiences driving the C4S?
Thanks

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Mar 9, 2006 6:00:59 PM

intheloop: Junior; Loc: Chicago; Posts: 124, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 29, 2006; Reply to: AS4s

Re: Close to final decision - Help needed!!!

Sorry, forgot to comment on the sport shifter: do it! It is only a bit notchy in going into first when very cold (as in, the day a month or so back when I started the car and the outside temperature reading was -5 (Fahrenheit, friends). Otherwise, a superb and precise gearbox. Going back to a standard gearbox feels like you are driving a UPS truck.

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Mar 9, 2006 6:04:08 PM

intheloop: Junior; Loc: Chicago; Posts: 124, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 29, 2006; Reply to: AS4s

Re: Close to final decision - Help needed!!!

Quote:
senra said:

I see, I thought he was kidding but now I understand what you mean, so yes, that one has been added. I also agree with you on the back of the seats. Thanks

Sorry, last comment. If you do aluminum look seatbacks, then do the B pillar belt outlets in aluminum look, too. I know, I'm a geek, but man, does that look sharp on a cab with the top down!

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Mar 9, 2006 6:21:39 PM

amazon: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Belgium , Belgium; Posts: 2108, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 5, 2004; Reply to: intheloop

Re: Close to final decision - Help needed!!!

With all the options you added, with the c4s you'll reach easily the price of a turbo.

So if 4wd is absolutely necessary, yes, go for it. But as you're asking the question, it means it's everything but necessary.

Except if you don't care about your money, pick the one you like. But common sense would tell me to tell you to go for the c2s.

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Mar 9, 2006 6:36:53 PM

Le Chef: Veteran; Loc: Chicago , United States; Posts: 1059, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 3, 2003; Reply to: amazon

Is "planted" important?

I've driven a Boxster before and loved it because it wasn't "planted" but felt "lively". My 996 C4S felt "planted" and I hated it - didn't feel like a sports car. My 997 C2S feels "lively" and I love driving it.

Where you live, and where you drive to, frankly the awd will be a waste. You would be far better off taking the money and doing PDE so you get over the need to feel "planted" and begin to understand and enjoy the qualities of a sports car and what you can do with it.

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Mar 9, 2006 7:20:41 PM

devo: Veteran; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 1107, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 31, 2006; Reply to: AS4s

Re: Close to final decision - Help needed!!!

Advice; Turbo. Your spending nearly as much. I would think your resale would be worse with the 997S optioned the way you have.

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Mar 9, 2006 7:44:19 PM

AS4s: Pilot; Loc: New York , United States; Posts: 328, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 10, 2004; Reply to: Le Chef

Re: Is "planted" important?

Quote:
Le Chef said:
I've driven a Boxster before and loved it because it wasn't "planted" but felt "lively". My 996 C4S felt "planted" and I hated it - didn't feel like a sports car. My 997 C2S feels "lively" and I love driving it.

Where you live, and where you drive to, frankly the awd will be a waste. You would be far better off taking the money and doing PDE so you get over the need to feel "planted" and begin to understand and enjoy the qualities of a sports car and what you can do with it.

Ok. I guess no point in my C4S bias. Thanks for the advice. I will still test both next week but I get your point. I do want a sports car.

Regarding all those recomending the Turbo, as I said in a previous post, Im sorry to say I don't like the way it looks and no matter how great it performs, I cannot live with a car I just don't like. Maybe it grows on me with time.

One last thing that I asked in my original post, the C2S came out if I recall correctly back at the end of 04, one fear I have is I get mine in May/June and the facelift comes MY07. Any comments?

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Mar 9, 2006 8:38:26 PM

crayphile: Rennteam Pro; Loc: England , United Kingdom; Posts: 2860, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 16, 2004; Reply to: AS4s

Re: Is "planted" important?

Quote:
senra said:
Quote:
Le Chef said:
I've driven a Boxster before and loved it because it wasn't "planted" but felt "lively". My 996 C4S felt "planted" and I hated it - didn't feel like a sports car. My 997 C2S feels "lively" and I love driving it.

Where you live, and where you drive to, frankly the awd will be a waste. You would be far better off taking the money and doing PDE so you get over the need to feel "planted" and begin to understand and enjoy the qualities of a sports car and what you can do with it.

Ok. I guess no point in my C4S bias. Thanks for the advice. I will still test both next week but I get your point. I do want a sports car.

Regarding all those recomending the Turbo, as I said in a previous post, Im sorry to say I don't like the way it looks and no matter how great it performs, I cannot live with a car I just don't like. Maybe it grows on me with time.

One last thing that I asked in my original post, the C2S came out if I recall correctly back at the end of 04, one fear I have is I get mine in May/June and the facelift comes MY07. Any comments?

There is no way there will be a facelift for MY2007. Wait till you see the Turbo in the metal before you decide you don't like it. There again if you do like it at that point, you'll have to wait a long while to get it.

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Mar 10, 2006 2:01:05 AM

SVNSVN: Rennteam Pro; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 2994, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2005; Reply to: AS4s

Re: Close to final decision - Help needed!!!

Quote:
senra said:
Quote:
jpcourt said:
why not just order a 997 Turbo?

Have thought about that but i see the following negatives:

1 - I like the looks of the C2S and C4S much better.
2 - I want a Cab. and Turbo cab is not out yet
3 - I don't like Tiptronic and since PDK will be available in the future, I rather get a Turbo S in 3 years.
4 - Yes, the price is at the turbo level, but fully loaded, I would not want a barebones Turbo so price of Turbo would also be higher with extras that I want.

My thoughts, and very similar spec as my ordered baby!

I would definitely add the Thicker Wheel, Porsche Crest in storage lid and Door Finishers in leather. I also did the Instrument Surround in leather( only $260).

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Mar 10, 2006 12:14:43 PM

gota911: Newbie; Loc: NC; Posts: 29, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2006; Reply to: SVNSVN

Re: Close to final decision - Help needed!!!

I would suggest that you add the supple leather (a.k.a. soft look leather). It is only $375 US and gives the seats much richer look and feel than the standard leather on the seats. I have it in my '04 996 and it is great. I also agree with SVNSVN on the Door Finishers in leather. Those really complete the leather "package."

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Mar 10, 2006 3:22:01 PM

intheloop: Junior; Loc: Chicago; Posts: 124, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 29, 2006; Reply to: gota911

Re: Close to final decision - Help needed!!!

Quote:
gota911 said:
I would suggest that you add the supple leather (a.k.a. soft look leather). It is only $375 US and gives the seats much richer look and feel than the standard leather on the seats. I have it in my '04 996 and it is great. I also agree with SVNSVN on the Door Finishers in leather. Those really complete the leather "package."

I had supple leather two cars ago, and while it looks nice when it's new, it doesn't wear as well over time. Starts to look a little beat up and "old" after 20,000 miles or so, especially if you primarily drive the car by yourself; then it wears on the driver's side while the passenger side looks new. My $0.02.

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Mar 10, 2006 4:13:42 PM

intouch1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Red Sea , Egypt; Posts: 5722, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2004; Reply to: AS4s

Re: Close to final decision - Help needed!!!

c4s looks nicer. c2s has plenty traction and feels lighter.
i'd go for c4s with x51 or wait for turbo if in your budget.

personally i have 997s cab currently and turbo on order.

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Mar 10, 2006 5:24:12 PM

Le Chef: Veteran; Loc: Chicago , United States; Posts: 1059, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 3, 2003; Reply to: intheloop

Agree

I had supple leather in my 996 C4S and it began to look shiny after a short time. Not so rich in my opinion, more like a cheap shiny suit.

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Mar 10, 2006 6:05:46 PM

Dan L: Expert; Loc: Santa Barbara, CA , United States; Posts: 1957, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2006; Reply to: Le Chef

Re: Agree

Wheels: The XRR wheels are wider than the Classics--front and rear.

dan

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Mar 10, 2006 6:48:52 PM

chili: Pilot; Loc: Bay Area - East Bay; Posts: 354, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 10, 2005; Reply to: Dan L

Re: Agree

What ever it is that you do, it will make you happier when you take delivery.....

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Mar 11, 2006 6:37:23 PM

Damian: Senior; Loc: Pa, USA; Posts: 646, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 10, 2005; Reply to: chili

Re: Agree

senra , this is PCM stack in basalt black metallic..... nice, but if you prefer Porsche leather bits for the same cost you could spec ALL of the following together (at least per U.S. order guide):
- door finishers in leather
- instrument surround in leather
- inner door sill finishers in leather
- dome light surround in leather
- gearshift trim in leather
- rear view mirror in leather

beautiful Basalt Black metallic with XRR Carrera Sport wheels -- in my opinion has the perfect wheel offsets for this car -- (first pic C2S, second C2)

Best of luck.

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Mar 11, 2006 6:57:43 PM

john999s: Senior; Loc: Hessen, Germany , Germany; Posts: 630, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2005; Reply to: Damian

Re: Agree

Do you really want X51? Normally you'd do it with -20mm LSD as half way to a GT3...

Basically the 2S or the 4S if you are using full throttle and revs aren't slow anyway and you probably won't get any of the X51 money back. Mind you the carbon airbox is rather nice!

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Mar 11, 2006 10:29:31 PM

AS4s: Pilot; Loc: New York , United States; Posts: 328, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 10, 2004; Reply to: Damian

Re: Agree

Quote:
Damian said:
senra , this is PCM stack in basalt black metallic..... nice, but if you prefer Porsche leather bits for the same cost you could spec ALL of the following together (at least per U.S. order guide):

Thanks Damian, is that your car with the PCM in black? if so, do you have a higher res. pic? I think it looks pertty good especially with black leather interior

I agree with you and others on the XXR over the C classics. I have 18" Carrera Classics in my 986S so a change will also be nice.

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Mar 11, 2006 10:32:07 PM

AS4s: Pilot; Loc: New York , United States; Posts: 328, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 10, 2004; Reply to: intheloop

Re: Close to final decision - Help needed!!!

Quote:
intheloop said:
Quote:
gota911 said:
I would suggest that you add the supple leather (a.k.a. soft look leather). It is only $375 US and gives the seats much richer look and feel than the standard leather on the seats. I have it in my '04 996 and it is great. I also agree with SVNSVN on the Door Finishers in leather. Those really complete the leather "package."

I had supple leather two cars ago, and while it looks nice when it's new, it doesn't wear as well over time. Starts to look a little beat up and "old" after 20,000 miles or so, especially if you primarily drive the car by yourself; then it wears on the driver's side while the passenger side looks new. My $0.02.

You cannot get supple leather with adaptive sport seats. besides I have to agree, they look nice at first, I have had them in my last two cars, but after 2 years they start looking pretty old especially driver seat.

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Mar 12, 2006 2:15:46 AM

Damian: Senior; Loc: Pa, USA; Posts: 646, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 10, 2005; Reply to: AS4s

Re: Agree

Quote:
senra said:
Quote:
Damian said:
senra , this is PCM stack in basalt black metallic..... nice, but if you prefer Porsche leather bits for the same cost you could spec ALL of the following together (at least per U.S. order guide):

Thanks Damian, is that your car with the PCM in black? if so, do you have a higher res. pic? I think it looks pertty good especially with black leather interior

I agree with you and others on the XXR over the C classics. I have 18" Carrera Classics in my 986S so a change will also be nice.

No, not mine...this car was at a dealer; frankenstein interior mix of PCM in Basalt black (notice in second photo below-camera flash reflecting high-metalflake Basalt), Basalt black trim piece below shifter boot, Cocoa leather, every Makassar dark wood option possible (shifter, e-brake, switch panel, rear center console, doors).

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