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    997GT3 a possible 997TT alternative?

    Picking up from RCs post re statisfaction with the the new TT, I thought that maybe the new gt3 is being positioned by Porsche as a partial alternative to it, much more than with the 996 series.
    The 997tt is very good - even by Porsche standards - but the looks are worse than those of the 996tt IMO and also than the new gt3. the car is faster with auto than manual; the car will cost above 150 euro with some extras here in germany. this car is made to milk the clients...

    So maybe after all the new (and cheaper) gt3 will be an alternative to sporty 996tt drivers willing to change their cars. The fact that it has PASM might allow for a relatively comfortable setting of the suspensions in non track mode. Yes, it will be louder than a tt, but I guess a Gallardo would be louder than a tt as well. And I believe the tt will not come with PDK because of this superefficient tiptronic. It doesnt make sense for Porsche to offer three different trannies on the same model. US loves automatic, they couldnt care less how it works or it's named as long as it's quick. On top the supplier of the PDK has only limited production capacities.
    So PDK might be offered for the gt3 only, which would make sense as the race PDK clutch I happened to hold in my hands as a prototype some time ago (and which was for Porsche apparently), could only handle up to 600 NM. So probably it will be introduced with the RS and then subsequently made available to all gt3s. let's just wait another year...
    And PCM is being offered for the first time as well: perfect for timing racetrack rounds, but also for finding some shopping boulevard.

    Bottom line: the new gt3 would on the one hand have the raw and sporty character some of us like (plus better power to weight ratio than the 996tt) coupled with the option of a softer (=everday) PASM setting, Satnav and PDK (=automatic)!!

    Real track freaks will go for the (higher margin) RS anyway with 'manual' suspension etc.

    Re: 997GT3 a possible 997TT alternative?

    I am sure that GT3 is much more fun to drive, everywhere.
    Because of RWD, agressive LSD, weight etc. One simple word, Handling!!!!
    But on Autobahn of course the Turbo will be faster, and of course also on a race-track an untalented driver will be faster with AWD turbo Automatic, than with a pure drivers car GT3.
    The MK2 I personaly never liked to much, but the new one is just stuining. Everything is perfekt, design power and sepcs.

    Re: 997GT3 a possible 997TT alternative?

    My thoughts exactly.

    Re: 997GT3 a possible 997TT alternative?

    GT3 is wonderfully appealing to me, but that wing...



    Re: 997GT3 a possible 997TT alternative?

    Discreet it ain't! But you get real downforce...and gurney flaps...and you can adjust it...and... you could paint it flat black!!

    Re: 997GT3 a possible 997TT alternative?

    The new 997 GT3 is in my opinion the best buy for the buck right now from Porsche. I would get one in an instant if I wouldn't need PSM (for the in previously posts mentioned reasons, I'm getting old, kids, etc.) and the back seats (kids). But whoever is interested in the GT3 should be warned: although the TC (traction control) seems to incorporate some basic PSM functions, it is not a true PSM system. I hate to give this as an example but I have to do it because I know that some of you are "hot" to get one but lack the experience of driving such a car at the limit: Ben's accident. His Carrera GT had TC, no PSM. So no matter how good of a driver you think you are, the GT3 is really not a car for beginners or a car I would give my 20-year old kid to play with. And even for experienced drivers, this car can be a challenge since most of us are usually used to driving PSM/ESP equipped cars and even if we have some track experience, a car without PSM can be very challenging.

    That said, yes, the GT3 is a possible 997 Turbo alternative but only for a certain audience. If you're driving your car mainly in urban areas and not very often on the track, the GT3 is definetely the wrong car for you. And if you're a hot tempered type of guy who gets provoked easily, the GT3 may not be the right car either. This is a car you have to start driving with your brains first, not your throttle foot. I know this sounds arrogant and maybe a little bit offensive but just try to consider me to be your old man, giving you a good advice. Take it or leave it but don't be mad at me, I love you all.

    Re: 997GT3 a possible 997TT alternative?

    A bit like my Duc 999s on a wet day in fact, RC.No ABS, PSM, or anything in fact. Just respect and a cool head and plenty of experience.

    Damn good advice.

    Re: 997GT3 a possible 997TT alternative?

    Excellent piece of advice RC,
    I agree with you on TC compared to PSM.
    The internet daddy is back.

    Your best post is a very long time my friend!

    Re: 997GT3 a possible 997TT alternative?

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    Excellent piece of advice RC,
    I agree with you on TC compared to PSM.
    The internet daddy is back.

    Your best post is a very long time my friend!



    His more positive today ..

    throt..

    Re: 997GT3 a possible 997TT alternative?

    Quote:
    john999s said:
    A bit like my Duc 999s on a wet day in fact, RC.No ABS, PSM, or anything in fact. Just respect and a cool head and plenty of experience.

    Damn good advice.



    I agree , our bikes do set us up so much better when your in the hands of a 4 wheel rebel ,, RESPECT ..

    throt..

    Re: 997GT3 a possible 997TT alternative?

    Quote:
    RC said:
    The new 997 GT3 is in my opinion the best buy for the buck right now from Porsche. I would get one in an instant if I wouldn't need PSM (for the in previously posts mentioned reasons, I'm getting old, kids, etc.) and the back seats (kids). But whoever is interested in the GT3 should be warned: although the TC (traction control) seems to incorporate some basic PSM functions, it is not a true PSM system. I hate to give this as an example but I have to do it because I know that some of you are "hot" to get one but lack the experience of driving such a car at the limit: Ben's accident. His Carrera GT had TC, no PSM. So no matter how good of a driver you think you are, the GT3 is really not a car for beginners or a car I would give my 20-year old kid to play with. And even for experienced drivers, this car can be a challenge since most of us are usually used to driving PSM/ESP equipped cars and even if we have some track experience, a car without PSM can be very challenging.

    That said, yes, the GT3 is a possible 997 Turbo alternative but only for a certain audience. If you're driving your car mainly in urban areas and not very often on the track, the GT3 is definetely the wrong car for you. And if you're a hot tempered type of guy who gets provoked easily, the GT3 may not be the right car either. This is a car you have to start driving with your brains first, not your throttle foot. I know this sounds arrogant and maybe a little bit offensive but just try to consider me to be your old man, giving you a good advice. Take it or leave it but don't be mad at me, I love you all.



    The hope for guys like us could be that our age (40+) and survival instinct works as a kind of PSM - or full throttle inhibitor!!
    Pity though that PSM doesnt get offered; probably because of the mentioned interference with the LSD, but if it was technically feasible I'd give up that last bit of performance to have that safetynet on board...

    PS: spoke to my dealer who just came back from Stutttgart where he saw the gt3 life. He was quite sure the car would NOT come with PASM...

    Re: 997GT3 a possible 997TT alternative?

    GT3R - PASM and TC - 415 HP - 1395 KG
    GT3RS - PASM and TC - 415 HP - LESS THAN 1395 KG

    Re: 997GT3 a possible 997TT alternative?

    Quote:
    CF said:
    GT3R - PASM and TC - 415 HP - 1395 KG
    GT3RS - PASM and TC - 415 HP - LESS THAN 1395 KG



    ...and I think you could soon add PDK for the RS...

    Re: 997GT3 a possible 997TT alternative?

    If you say so

    Now, isn't that just wonderful.

    997 GT2 will not be produced.

    Re: 997GT3 a possible 997TT alternative?

    Quote:
    CF said:
    If you say so

    Now, isn't that just wonderful.

    997 GT2 will not be produced.



    are you sure for this CF ?!
    I am thinking of cancelling my order and buying a GT3 RS.
    for this reason i am asking...

    Re: 997GT3 a possible 997TT alternative?

    Quote:
    Aisxos said:
    Quote:
    CF said:
    If you say so

    Now, isn't that just wonderful.

    997 GT2 will not be produced.



    are you sure for this CF ?!
    I am thinking of cancelling my order and buying a GT3 RS.
    for this reason i am asking...



    No one is sure of anything lately ..

    Whats the rush guys anyway , you dont buy anything in life without reading all of details ,,, relax everyone ..

    throt...

    Re: 997GT3 a possible 997TT alternative?

    Regarding the PSM and TC what you mention RC, PSM corrects once mistakes, but only if they are "small". At some point the physics will take control with ot without PSM. Some bad example, you try to get a curve that can be maximaly done 50kph, at 100kph. I personally don't like all this systems. The only thing which could be helpfull while driving in very strong winter is TC.
    In my car I didnt take PSM, maybe I would have taken it if there was a possibility to turn it of completly. For just in case that someboy else is driving my car. But you cant turn it off completly and its anoing that in extrem situation as soon as you brake a bit the PSM comes back. And unfotunatly PSM cant be delated from the option list enymore. Most of the buyers for sure don't care, but people like me for sure do. That one more reason why I would take a GT3 over a turbo anytime.
    I like to have 100% control of the car, and even if I lose control I want to restrain the beat on my own. And so far no car ever take control over me. Of course not everybody is able to handle certain critical situations. Of course 90% I drive the car civilized, but But everybody must know the limits of his car, and more important the limits of himself. The biggest fun of sports cars is that you know that you can "do" when ever you like. Some sistems unfotunatly dont let you "do" what ever you like to.
    So the perfekt solution for everybody would be like on the M3.
    Turn of (half), or when you keep the button pushed for several seconds, than you can turn it of completley.
    But since a while porsche isn't really making 100% perfekt cars that aply to everybodys whishes and needs.

    Re: 997GT3 a possible 997TT alternative?

    Avoe,

    You ought to try a 997. The new calibrated PSM, when switched off, only comes back on when the ABS kicks in.
    With the 996, it was when the brakes were applied.
    Good drivers don't engage ABS because they apply the trail braking technique.

    Now, with my 997, I can engage a slide wilst tbraking, which of course is impossible with a 996 and PSM doesn't intervene at all as I experienced a few days ago with some rather snappy spinning action (in all safety on a track of course).

    It is the perfect set up for me.
    With PSM Off, it helped me only once when I literally jumped on the brake pedal from 210 kmh going for a high speed curve and not trailbraking corretly, I obviously locked the front wheels and they had no turning ability whatsoever, ABS kicked in, PSM sorted me out.

    I WOULD NOT like to lose control of my car at 210 kmh!

    Furthermore, with the sport chrono option, but PSM on, you can slide the car to a certain degree. Ideal for beginners!

    Re: 997GT3 a possible 997TT alternative?

    Sound like you are taking the care to the right places, and enyoing it alot.
    I drove the 997S a fiew times, but I didn't recognize this changes. Cause you shouldn't use the brake while sliding.
    But it sound of course much much better with this setup, it also makes much more sense. But I would anyway wish to have also an option to Turn PSM off completley.

    Re: 997GT3 a possible 997TT alternative?

    In a world where we are increasingly relying on "others" to help us take responsibility for our own action the car is no different. Before you know it the car will make all your decisions for you - imagine if you are on the autobahn and want to accelerate but the car will not let you as the distance to the front car is still to "small" - horror.

    Don't get me wrong I think that ABS, PSM and the like are worthwhile inventions but when will it stop.

    In my mind no Porsche is not for the beginner. I am getting the new GT3 for exactly what it is: a racer for the road. A car I can drive to the track, on the track and back home. Of course I will drive it sensibly but I also know that I will spin the car - hopefully not into a fixed object - and learn from that. Driving is about learning about your car, but more importantly about yourself. We all had physics, we know that if you break the mass travels forward...

    I wish more manufactures would give me the choice to get a car with less and not more electronics. But I guess all this motivated to apiece lawyers who look to protect us from the evil OEMs - result being that the world will caters to the lowest denominator

    The new GT3 meets all my expectations and I look forward sharing the ownership experience with those of you who share the passion of driving these cars

    my 2p worth...

    Re: 997GT3 a possible 997TT alternative?

    Quote:
    RC said:
    The new 997 GT3 is in my opinion the best buy for the buck right now from Porsche. I would get one in an instant if I wouldn't need PSM (for the in previously posts mentioned reasons, I'm getting old, kids, etc.) and the back seats (kids). But whoever is interested in the GT3 should be warned: although the TC (traction control) seems to incorporate some basic PSM functions, it is not a true PSM system. I hate to give this as an example but I have to do it because I know that some of you are "hot" to get one but lack the experience of driving such a car at the limit: Ben's accident. His Carrera GT had TC, no PSM. So no matter how good of a driver you think you are, the GT3 is really not a car for beginners or a car I would give my 20-year old kid to play with. And even for experienced drivers, this car can be a challenge since most of us are usually used to driving PSM/ESP equipped cars and even if we have some track experience, a car without PSM can be very challenging.

    That said, yes, the GT3 is a possible 997 Turbo alternative but only for a certain audience. If you're driving your car mainly in urban areas and not very often on the track, the GT3 is definetely the wrong car for you. And if you're a hot tempered type of guy who gets provoked easily, the GT3 may not be the right car either. This is a car you have to start driving with your brains first, not your throttle foot. I know this sounds arrogant and maybe a little bit offensive but just try to consider me to be your old man, giving you a good advice. Take it or leave it but don't be mad at me, I love you all.



    Cheers RC. Exactly my thoughts
    I'm turning 21 in a few months time and I've been driving a 996 GT3 for just about 3months now.
    I have LOTS(for my age) of experience with fast cars and racing cars and even though I do know how to control a car,A GT3 is something else. No doubt the 997 will be more user-friendly if the info given is correct, but the fact that theres no stabality control can really make a car
    unforgiving when you start to "disrespect" it..
    I dont even go near my cars limits for now...simply because
    the car is better than I am. All GT3's are cars to be respected

     
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