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    Re: 2014 Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa-Francorchamps

    Italo:
    reginos:

    Hamilton, could have backed off, in view of the probability of a collision that would harm himself more (given the relative points standings)  than the other driver. It was the second lap and there was plenty of scope for are re-pass.  But even if Hamilton finished one or two postions behind Rosberg because of that, it would have been better than risking a DNF.

    Even if we assume that Rosberg decided to open the door to the lunatic asylum, it didn't mean that Hamilton should get inside too. Judgement and brains are as necessary as driving skills.


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    "Form follows function"

     You must either have been watching A1 racing or viewing the race in Black and white....Hamilton should have backed off despite being in front, what a stupid comment Smiley

    He would have been better off than where he ended up. IMO backing off fitted the situation better, under the circumstances. 

    Stupid comment? @&*#   @?%! Smiley


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    "Form follows function"


    Re: 2014 Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa-Francorchamps

    The Driver's Championship has become almost entirely a psychological war at this point. In that context, and given Hamilton's own history of ruthlessly aggressive driving, Rosberg had little choice, from a strategic standpoint, to go all-in and risk a collision with Hamilton at some point. Otherwise, Hamilton would simply bully him off the track the rest of the season. If Rosberg were teammates with, say, Jenson Button, I would agree that deliberately not backing off in this situation at the certain risk of a collision was overly-aggressive, reckless driving. But it was inevitable that this would happen eventually unless Rosberg was just to yield to Hamilton in every tight situation. At least it happened in a situation where there was minimal risk of injury to either driver. But, now, Hamilton will not be so sure that he can simply squeeze Rossberg out whenever he likes, and, for Rosberg to win the championship, that is a necessary state of mind to create in his only opponent.

    The point is that you can't just examine this collision without the context of the entire season past and future in mind. It's not an isolated incident, and it's a significant event in the psychological battle between these two drivers. And, in that context, Rosberg did what he had to do at some point, which is to assert himself against Hamilton and not allow Hamilton to take it for granted that everyone will just get out of his way.

    I would have more sympathy for Hamilton if he hadn't shown himself to be such an aggressive bully in the past. But he has, and his complaints about Rosberg's actions come off as just so much entitled whining, given Hamilton's own history.


    Re: 2014 Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa-Francorchamps

    Rosberg challenged Hamilton in a theoretically win-win situation for Rosberg i.e. either overtake or both crash.

    A clever driver would have gone into a damage limitation mode and allow himself to be passed rather than jeopardizing his race and probably his whole season. Hamilton elected to follow Rosberg risky tactics and he lost.  It was only lap 2 and nothing would have been decided had Rosberg passed, anyway. 

    IMO it is as plain as that.

    Someone like Alonso for example wouldn't allow himself to fall in that trap.

    Now whether Rosberg should be penalized either by the FIA or the team, that is a totally different matter.

     


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    "Form follows function"


    Re: 2014 Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa-Francorchamps

    Italo:

    ....Hamilton should have backed off despite being in front, what a stupid comment Smiley

    Come on now, Hamilton was clearly "closing the door" on Rosberg, leaving him less than a car width of track to proceed on. And, while that may be a common practice, it doesn't absolve the lead driver of all responsibility should a collision occur. Yes, Rosberg could have braked and allowed Hamilton to shut the door on him but, instead, he said, hey, I've got my foot in here so I'm coming through too, and you need to give me room. If Hamilton gives him room but Rosberg carries too much speed and t-bones Hamilton, then the collision is all on Rosberg. But, if Hamilton doesn't give him room and attempts to squeeze him off the track, then the responsibility is shared.


    Re: 2014 Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa-Francorchamps

    I think that if the incident would have involved someone else, like Ricciardo or Kimi, the opinion would change for a lot of people. .. Hamilton's past doings has caught up with him.


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    Re: 2014 Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa-Francorchamps

    apias:

    The Driver's Championship has become almost entirely a psychological war at this point. In that context, and given Hamilton's own history of ruthlessly aggressive driving, Rosberg had little choice, from a strategic standpoint, to go all-in and risk a collision with Hamilton at some point. Otherwise, Hamilton would simply bully him off the track the rest of the season. If Rosberg were teammates with, say, Jenson Button, I would agree that deliberately not backing off in this situation at the certain risk of a collision was overly-aggressive, reckless driving. But it was inevitable that this would happen eventually unless Rosberg was just to yield to Hamilton in every tight situation. At least it happened in a situation where there was minimal risk of injury to either driver. But, now, Hamilton will not be so sure that he can simply squeeze Rossberg out whenever he likes, and, for Rosberg to win the championship, that is a necessary state of mind to create in his only opponent.

    The point is that you can't just examine this collision without the context of the entire season past and future in mind. It's not an isolated incident, and it's a significant event in the psychological battle between these two drivers. And, in that context, Rosberg did what he had to do at some point, which is to assert himself against Hamilton and not allow Hamilton to take it for granted that everyone will just get out of his way.

    I would have more sympathy for Hamilton if he hadn't shown himself to be such an aggressive bully in the past. But he has, and his complaints about Rosberg's actions come off as just so much entitled whining, given Hamilton's own history.

    Although I agree with the psychological aspects you mention, I don't agree that today's drivers adopt a blanket approach whereby they always bully or give way to a particular person. I believe it's more of a case by case approach depending on the risk in each circumstance.


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    997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: 2014 Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa-Francorchamps

    apias:
    Italo:

    ....Hamilton should have backed off despite being in front, what a stupid comment Smiley

    Come on now, Hamilton was clearly "closing the door" on Rosberg, leaving him less than a car width of track to proceed on. And, while that may be a common practice, it doesn't absolve the lead driver of all responsibility should a collision occur. Yes, Rosberg could have braked and allowed Hamilton to shut the door on him but, instead, he said, hey, I've got my foot in here so I'm coming through too, and you need to give me room. If Hamilton gives him room but Rosberg carries too much speed and t-bones Hamilton, then the collision is all on Rosberg. But, if Hamilton doesn't give him room and attempts to squeeze him off the track, then the responsibility is shared.

    Not right. Drivers have to leave a car's width if the other car is substantially alongside. In Rosberg's first attack, Rosberg was halfway alongside. Hamilton had that corner already. Rosberg ran out of road so he turned away. But when Rosberg had turned away to back off leaving only his front wing overlapping with the back half of Hamilton's tyre, Rosberg turned in again. At that point, Hamilton had no obligation to back off or leave a car's width. Indeed, Sky's hawkeye virtual cam showed that Rosberg was no longer even visible in Hamilton's side mirror.

    Guys, you're naturally entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own facts Smiley


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    997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: 2014 Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa-Francorchamps

    I haven't seen this "virtual footage", but from what I have seen, Rosberg was, in my opinion, "substantially alongside" the entire time and his only options to avoid a collision, regardless of whether he turned or not, were to brake hard (i.e., lock up, and thus probably ruining his tires) or run off track.


    Re: 2014 Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa-Francorchamps

    It's best to look at the manoeuvre in 2 stages: 1st stage was the 1st turn in ending with a turn away then as Rosberg fell back 2nd stage began with the 2nd turn in.


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    997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: 2014 Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa-Francorchamps

     
    Eurosport.com: Is ‘calculated’ Lewis Hamilton just playing the victim again?
     
     
     

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    "Form follows function"


    Re: 2014 Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa-Francorchamps

    I think the the victim stage certainly happened when Hamilton started giving soundbites to the media after the Mercedes post-race briefing was over. He portrayed Rosberg as the bad guy. But he also took his cue from Lauda and Wolff who also blamed Rosberg entirely for the clash.


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    997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: 2014 Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa-Francorchamps

    "Hamilton should have backed off",, and ,, "Hamilton shut the door" to prevent NR overtaking.. Behave lads, thats ridiculous..


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    throt

    "I Have Done It!".

    991 GT3 pick up in October.


    Re: 2014 Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa-Francorchamps

    easy_rider911:

    I think the the victim stage certainly happened when Hamilton started giving soundbites to the media after the Mercedes post-race briefing was over. He portrayed Rosberg as the bad guy. But he also took his cue from Lauda and Wolff who also blamed Rosberg entirely for the clash.

    My biggest issue with Hamilton is that he's been giving soundbites to the media this entire season.  Think of how many times he's talked to the media about Rosberg, and what has Rosberg said?  I thought Alonso had a big ego earlier in his career, but Hamilton's is just astounding.  Hamilton is, obviously, an awesome driver, but he needs to work on keeping his mouth shut and driving his car more.  Hamilton's constant whining is probably what pushed Rosberg over the edge more than anything.  

     

    With that said, I (along with many of you) definitely point at Rosberg to blame for this crash.  We all would've preferred a good battle between the two throughout the race as opposed to this clumsy racing incident.


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    Re: 2014 Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa-Francorchamps

    throt:

    "Hamilton should have backed off",, and ,, "Hamilton shut the door" to prevent NR overtaking.. Behave lads, thats ridiculous..

    Yes, it's never Hamilton's fault, he'll tell you that himself, endlessly. That's why he's always gotten along so well with all his teams and teammates, and why, among his peers, he's the most popular driver on the grid. Oh, wait...


    Re: 2014 Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa-Francorchamps

    Mercedes discipline Rosberg. Rosberg accepts the collision was his fault. But so far, no details of the punishment. I assume it's just a fine. Big deal. He bagged 18 points and prevented Hamilton from getting any. Rosberg would gladly pay a fine if he still becomes world champion.

    At least, Mercedes will continue to let them race kiss

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/28984082


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    997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: 2014 Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa-Francorchamps

    And the latest news reiterates what I've been saying ...

    http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2014/08/rosberg-admits-responsibility-and-apologises-mercedes-discipline-championship-leader/

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/28984082

     


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    997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: 2014 Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa-Francorchamps

    Well, frankly, I think that's all just part of the "discipline", don't read to much into it. He's probably fortunate though that Max Mosley wasn't running the team and handing out the "discipline".


    Re: 2014 Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa-Francorchamps

    No substance in what I read.

    Until the next time....


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    "Form follows function"


     
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